WWI Digest 2115 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? by smperry@mindspring.com 2) Re: C&C(US) help by Carlos Valdes 3) Re: C&C(US) help by Zulis@aol.com 4) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by bucky@ptdprolog.net 5) Re: An old fart remembers by Ray_Boorman@telus.net 6) Air classics by GRBroman@aol.com 7) Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers by Ray_Boorman@telus.net 8) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by nieuport 9) Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers by Albatrosdv@aol.com 10) Re: C&C(US) help by "Matthew Bittner" 11) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 12) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 13) Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers by Albatrosdv@aol.com 14) 1:28 Spad Wing bow by smperry@mindspring.com 15) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point by Albatrosdv@aol.com 16) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point by smperry@mindspring.com 17) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point by Albatrosdv@aol.com 18) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by Albatrosdv@aol.com 19) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by "Lee Mensinger" 20) Re: Air classics by "Lee Mensinger" 21) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point by Ernest Thomas 22) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by "David C. Fletcher" 23) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point by "David C. Fletcher" 24) Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers by "Bill Bacon" 25) Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point by Albatrosdv@aol.com 26) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by Albatrosdv@aol.com 27) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by Albatrosdv@aol.com 28) Re: First Kits by Steve Cox 29) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by Steve Cox 30) HaZet Radiators by "Peter Leonard" 31) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by "K. Hagerup" 32) Re: Old Farts & Strombecker by Matthew Zivich 33) Re: An Old Fart Remembers by "Roger L. Belanger" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:13:14 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? Message-ID: <012401bf6a6b$5e069d80$e00156d1@default> > gee Tom, the picture of the guy standing next to it sure looke real to me While the story & script may be no good, it is interesting to note that it did allow somebody to do some OT 1:1 building.... What scale did you say you build in Tom? sp > Peter L > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Albatrosdv@aol.com > Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:09:11 -0500 (EST) > > In a message dated 00-01-28 21:59:58 EST, you write: > > << > This is no b.s. maybe possibly perhaps Frank Luke script that may get no > further than the inside of an excercise book, this is for real! > Check this out folks, and the popcorn's on me. >> > > Not to bust your bubble, Peter, but did you notice that the "German bomber > that isn't any one airplane" is a badly-done Aurora Gotha kit. > > Also, guys, it would be impossible in the time frame of a movie to tell a > story like that that wasn't merely a bunch of "incidents." I hate to tell > you this, but if you saw a movie with that kind of structure, you would hate > it. > > This website is what used to be, back in the days before the internet, an > expensively-printed multi-color cover on a screenplay. In "da biz," that is > a dead giveaway that what is inside the cover is thoroughly amateurish, > which > that story line and the rest at this site clearly demonstrates. This is > something put up by a talentless wannabee. > > Sorry, I'd like a good OT movie as much as the next guy - and I speak as > someone who did write a movie about Frank Luke that did get put into > development for about six months 15 years ago before they came to their > senses - but from my position as someone who has a bit of a clue how this > stuff happens, this is don't-hold-your-breath time. > > Tom Cleaver > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:22:52 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: C&C(US) help Message-ID: <389305CC.2089@conted.gatech.edu> > Vol 4 No 3 of C&C(US) has "something" in it about the > Morane-Saulnier Type AI. Could someone with this issue please > tell me what the issue contains on the MoS Type AI, please? TIA! Matt, There are two articles, the first being a short description of the a/c including construction and performance stats accompanied by 4 photos and 8 drawings depicting various details, while the second is a 2-page pilot's report written from a taped interview. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:29:10 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: C&C(US) help Message-ID: <98.107f860.25c46146@aol.com> Matt asks: << Vol 4 No 3 of C&C(US) has "something" in it about the Morane-Saulnier Type AI. Could someone with this issue please tell me what the issue contains on the MoS Type AI, please? TIA! >> - Article by John R. Carlson. Total - eight pages. - A few general paragraphs about the type, followed by a series of modifications and their sub-type designations - Dimensions, armament, tanks, loads. - Construction data - Performance Data - Two 10 o'clock photos (rather dark) of an A.I with Belgian Esc.9 - One photo of an A.I with the "Swedish Air Force" - surely a typo - the Swiss cross is clearly visible on the tail. - Nungesser standing next to an A.I (post-war) with his famous personal logo on the fuselage. - eight small detail sketches of various parts of the plane, including one of the dashboard layout. Sorry, Matt - I dont have a scanner. If you need this stuff, perhaps someone can help you out with that. Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:41:41 -0500 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <38931845.733078BE@ptdprolog.net> First Kit: My dad mostly made and I watched, probably 1956-58...it was some sort of Post WW-II bomber. The engines were mounted "backwards" on the wings and there was a pod of some sort under each wing with machine guns, I think. First OT kit: Easy to remember, the Revel Albatros D-III. All red airplane flying below a Zeppelin in 1/72 scale. No need to paint it and I couldn't afford paint anyway. I do remember how easy it was to get the radiator pipe in when I tried back then and how hard it is now. Mike Muth nb: Anatra Anasol 1/72 & W.29 1/48 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:46:27 -0800 From: Ray_Boorman@telus.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An old fart remembers Message-ID: <200001291646.IAA09249@smtpout.telus.net> On 29 Jan 00, at 6:38, Diego Fernetti wrote: > cartoons on the TV-. I didn't painted it, nor put the decals on (I > saved them for my already colorful bicycle) Ha I used to use to put any decals left over on my bike, dinky cars, my brother and I put them all over the mirror, My mum drew the line at the wardrobe. Wow this is a great thread....... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:56:39 EST From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Air classics Message-ID: I have a big box of Air Classics magazine. Dates range from the 70's up to the 90's. I would love to trade some of these for OT armor, airplane or ship kits. Or after market, or PE, Decals, Airfix magazines from the mid to late 70's. Just about anything. I've read them and they are taking up space which I need to put finished kits. No really, I actually have built some stuff. Just finished a Ford TC armoured car (yes Matt, the 1/72 one. Have I snatched the pebble from your hand Master?). Too cold to paint right now so I'll finish up that part after it's warm enough to fire up the airbrush in the garage. As I told my friend after I mentioned it was -5 degrees out and he asked "Celsius or Fahrenheit". I said "does it matter?" lease respond off list. Thanks, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:01:15 -0800 From: Ray_Boorman@telus.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers Message-ID: <200001291701.JAA13432@smtpout.telus.net> Well since I posted the appended opinion. I fully appologise for casting any doubts on the accuracy of the info from NKR Ray (I might have an opinion but I am certainly big enough to admit when I am wrong) I posted on January 24th >The one thing that keeps coming to mind with me are all the >rumours that nearly wiped out Accurate Miniatures (some from >very >legitimate sources). Another that comes to mind is some >distributor trying to start a buying frenzy it is that time of year >when >they would like to clear their inventories yah know. >I hope its either of those, since I was planning on buying one or >two >Gotha's ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:16:10 -0500 From: nieuport To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <3893205A.85C747A2@home.com> My first kit was likely a spitfire (no idea which one) First OT was either a Hawk Nieuport 17 or a balsa SE5 that never got finished. Even have a few pieces in my spares bin (never throw anything out that may be useful). -- Mike Fletcher ___ ., mdf@mars.ark.com |-\|^----! ; nieuport@home.com |--n--""*" http://members.home.net/nieuport/ icq=19554083 @ http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/nieuport.html If you don't know where you're going, you're never lost. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:21:52 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-29 07:35:44 EST, you write: << Here, here. The silence from Albatrosdv with respect to his previous slanders is truly stunning and ungentlemanly >> There wasn't any slander, Mr. Karver and I would say the same thing now. The events around Toko prove my point that these companies that provide us our stuff are operating on a very narrow margin. Do *you* run a business where every major decision you make means you bet your house?? Given that I was able to completely drop the Tamiya rumor with one e-mail, if you're going to pass around bullshit, at least list the cow that dropped it with you. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:20:42 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: C&C(US) help Message-ID: <200001291723.JAA24404@magpie.a001.sprintmail.com> On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:34:57 -0500 (EST), Zulis@aol.com wrote: > Sorry, Matt - I dont have a scanner. If you need this stuff, perhaps > someone can help you out with that. NP. Thanks to you and Carlos for replying. I was just hoping maybe there were MSP 161 photo's in there...Ah well...the search continues. Since all of this stuff sounds like is in the Mini-Datafile, I'll stick with that. Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:24:49 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-29 09:58:09 EST, you write: << gee Tom, the picture of the guy standing next to it sure looke real to me >> Trust me, this is not a movie you're going to see soon. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:27:43 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone? Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-29 10:15:15 EST, you write: << While the story & script may be no good, it is interesting to note that it did allow somebody to do some OT 1:1 building.... What scale did you say you build in Tom? >> I do 1/48, and if they did do a 1:1 of a real airplane (just remember what is posible in PhotoShop) the entire layout of the site as far as content is concerned just screams NOT TRUE if you have been around the course in this business. Believe me, there are a *lot* of dreamers out there, and 98% of them should stay "out there" (unfortunately, too many of them get "in here" which makes it hard for those of us in the 2% who should have - as witness the fact that even Star Bores was bad). Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:38:04 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers Message-ID: <48.ef2d73.25c47f7c@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-29 12:01:47 EST, you write: << Well since I posted the appended opinion. I fully appologise for casting any doubts on the accuracy of the info from NKR >> I have no trouble agreeing with Ray, and when I posted a note to Earl at NKR, he replied that he well understood the problem, and that he should have noted how it was he knew. He was quite happy to find out that I had quashed the Tamiya rumor, and I suspect he and I may trade info on rumors in the future. The point, which I was attempting to make - and it seemed if possible more difficult to say here with this intelligent bunch of folks than over in the r.m.s. sandbox - is that the people who make the stuff we love live on a shoestring. Even a limited-run ijection kit costs more to get off the ground than anyone reading this is likely to have in their piggy bank, available for crapshooting with. And the problem is, with all the market research in the world, you still have to spend all that money, plus the advertising that has to keep up regardless, and then find out if the "ultimate judges" like it. Believe me, if all the guesstimating and crystal ball-gazing worked, every product of my day job would be a $100 million hit (and we know that doesn't happen). Therefore, it's to our *personal benefit* to consider - before passing on rumors - whether this is going to help or harm the people rumored about, because if it harms them it is likely it will ultimately harm us (as the fate of Toko demonstrates). All I was talking about - and all you were refusing to hear - is that a bit of responsibility in all the white noise of e-mail isn't a bad thing. I know all of you don't have relationships with someone in the companies you can call/e-mail for confirmation, but just look at the nature of the rumor before passing it on. That's all. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:42:55 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: "Multiple recipients of list" Subject: 1:28 Spad Wing bow Message-ID: <017b01bf6a80$46e90e20$e00156d1@default> I've seen enough examples of the Revell 1:28 Spad to know that there is a spanwise bow in both the upper and lower wings. This is present to some degree on most of these kits. Probably caused by the way the big slab of plastic cools after it comes out of the mold. I'm happy to report that Joey V's method of heating the part in a box with a hair dryer worked well for me. I was able to remove 99% of the bow. The rest (very minor) will disappear when I glue in the struts and rig the model. sp E-mail smperry@mindspring.com Web Site http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/wwimodeler/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:49:42 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point Message-ID: I wish to hell this project was real, that it was happening, and that it would be successful. There's nothing like success in my day job business to allow the opportunity to copy it (there's a joke that runs around that everyone in the movie business is passionately committed to putting out the *second" hit). It would mean I could dust off "The Arizona Cowboy" and maybe have some fun with it. Unfortunately, what happens is people come along like this seems to, and 90 percent of the time they poison the well. If I get proved wrong, I'll be the first to say "hooray!" But 19 years in this business, you develop a radar for this sort of thing, and I don't think I need to institute cheering practice anytime soon. As an example of what I mean, the fact that Private Ryan was the hit it was has spawned a new U-boat adventure that will be out this Spring, and a couple of others in the pipeline. Not to mention that this past week the producer of "RKO281", who just won a Golden Globe for it, optioned "Trinity," written by me and my friend Ken Goldman, the story of the German commando strike in 1945 to assassinate J. Robert Oppenheimer and the other scientists of the Manhattan Project at Oppenheimer's ranch. Think "The Great Escape" meets "The Wild Bunch." (What, you don't believe it happened? I bet somebody like you doesn't believe Gregory Peck and David Niven blew up those guns, or that Major Lee Marvin and his guys didn't wipe out that German HQ. Party pooper! :-)) In our case, the fact of Ryan's success leads to us not being laughed out of the room anymore with this. And the new Grand Poobah at Warner Brothers, the man with the authority to say "yes," is also the guy who tried three times two years ago with his own company to get his partners to make "Trinity" (and he is the mentor of she who optioned the script). The end result is, I may in a year or two (if all works at light speed) be letting you know it's coming to your local theater. That's how this alleged "business" operates. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:03:11 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point Message-ID: <019001bf6a83$1bdd2100$e00156d1@default> But 19 years in this > business, you develop a radar for this sort of thing, and I don't think I > need to institute cheering practice anytime soon 47 years in the movie watching business also develops a radar... Just look to see how hard the fast food chains hype a movie's toys to tell how big a flop it's gonna be. Do hope your Luke based script gets noticed by someone with both dollars and sense. sp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:09:26 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point Message-ID: <7c.10a31ff.25c486d6@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-29 13:04:51 EST, you write: << 47 years in the movie watching business also develops a radar... Just look to see how hard the fast food chains hype a movie's toys to tell how big a flop it's gonna be. >> Yes! There's the real measure of success. Right now the WW2 Western is as far as I dare hope. Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:13:04 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <48.ef2d7f.25c487b0@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-29 05:24:31 EST, you write: << My first kit (that I remember) was a bright orange civilian biplane floatplane. I suspect it was HAWK, but I don't know. I don't know what kind of an airplane it was either. >> There's a good possibility you are thinking of the old Hawk Curtiss R3C-2 racer (which still can make up into an impressive kit, using RKs method of doing rib detail with paint, and generally cleaning up otherwise - I like those old Schneider Cup racers) Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:17:33 -0600 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, "Lee Mensinger" Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <38932EBD.A7F7BB9@wireweb.net> ot but good info from the past from an older Old Fart. Look up Aircuda. Bell YFM1 (38-351) Flew 01 Sept.1937. Nine more were built. Nacelles were on top of the wing. Crew of five. Guns were at least 20mm If anyone needs to know more I have a small amount of information and a scanner. United States Military Aircraft since 1909 by F. G. Swanborough Lee M bucky@ptdprolog.net wrote: > First Kit: My dad mostly made and I watched, probably 1956-58...it was some sort > of Post WW-II bomber. The engines were mounted "backwards" on the wings and > there was a pod of some sort under each wing with machine guns, I think. > First OT kit: Easy to remember, the Revel Albatros D-III. All red airplane > flying below a Zeppelin in 1/72 scale. No need to paint it and I couldn't afford > paint anyway. I do remember how easy it was to get the radiator pipe in when I > tried back then and how hard it is now. > Mike Muth > nb: Anatra Anasol 1/72 & W.29 1/48 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:32:40 -0600 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, "Lee Mensinger" Subject: Re: Air classics Message-ID: <38933248.2D27AC6F@wireweb.net> It makes a lot of difference to the person that is there. Minus 5 degrees Centigrade is Plus 23 degrees Fahrenheit. While minus 5 degrees Fahrenheit is minus 20.56 degrees Centigrade. A slight difference of 43.56 degree fahrenheit. Or about 24.6 degrees C. I know I would notice the difference. Lee M. GRBroman@aol.com wrote: > I have a big box of Air Classics magazine. Dates range from the 70's up to > the 90's. I would love to trade some of these for OT armor, airplane or ship > kits. Or after market, or PE, Decals, Airfix magazines from the mid to late > 70's. Just about anything. I've read them and they are taking up space > which I need to put finished kits. No really, I actually have built some > stuff. Just finished a Ford TC armoured car (yes Matt, the 1/72 one. Have I > snatched the pebble from your hand Master?). Too cold to paint right now so > I'll finish up that part after it's warm enough to fire up the airbrush in > the garage. As I told my friend after I mentioned it was -5 degrees out and > he asked "Celsius or Fahrenheit". I said "does it matter?" lease respond > off list. Thanks, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 12:45:02 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point Message-ID: <12D4F3AE.4D4439F0@bellsouth.net> Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > Right now the WW2 Western is as far as I dare hope. > Do we really need another war movie just now? Here's a script idea for you Tom. One that you can pitch to Disney too. A full length, animated remake of "The Fountainhead". Come up with a few catchy tunes, write in a cute little talking rodent for comic relief, (maybe a ground hog that helps Howard Rourke choose building sites) and voila`! An instant smash hit. I tell ya Tom, it could work. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:57:12 -0800 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <38933808.817092C9@mars.ark.com> nieuport wrote: "My first kit was likely a spitfire (no idea which one)..." It was a Hawk Spitfire 24 from my spares pile, just for the record... By the way, I have confirmed that modellers never throw anything away. I just extracted some His-Air-Dec decals from my decal box for use on an "ot" model - and they still worked fine after about 35 years - and I came across an even older sheet. Coles Books used to carry models some 40 years ago and I picked up a vacform deHavilland Otter flying model there. It came as U.S. Army (in olive drab) or RCAF (in white). I still have the RCAF decals - terrible maple leaves though! The back of the sheet carries the name "Strombeck-Becker Mfg., Co., Moline, Ill." Does anyone know anything about this line and what other models were available ("OT", of course)? Dave Fletcher -- Visit us at our Home Page: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:57:16 -0800 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point Message-ID: <3893380C.F46C0ED6@mars.ark.com> smperry@mindspring.com wrote: "47 years in the movie watching business also develops a radar... Just look to see how hard the fast food chains hype a movie's toys to tell how big a flop it's gonna be." Aha! So a rotten movie could result in renewed availability of the Aurora Gotha. I'd better sell mine now while the prices are still high. Dave Fletcher -- Visit us at our Home Page: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:32:36 -0600 From: "Bill Bacon" To: Subject: Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers Message-ID: <000701bf6a8f$999af480$413c32cf@tcac.net> Tom, Well and truely said and I am in total agreement. In a society entranced by the GOTTCHA syndrome, it a joy to see at least one level head. I have made it a point to follow these rules: If you can't say something good about something or one, don't say anything. If you have a complaint don't bithch about it, register the complaint with the individual or company involved. Don't spread unsubstatiated rumors. If you wish to complain on the list, state only what you have done and the results or a personal visual observation. We are all mature enough to weigh the facts and make our own personal decisions. Cheers, Bill B. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Apologies in order, was Re: News for micro-modelers > In a message dated 00-01-29 12:01:47 EST, you write: > > << > Well since I posted the appended opinion. I fully appologise for > casting any doubts on the accuracy of the info from NKR >> > > I have no trouble agreeing with Ray, and when I posted a note to Earl at NKR, > he replied that he well understood the problem, and that he should have noted > how it was he knew. He was quite happy to find out that I had quashed the > Tamiya rumor, and I suspect he and I may trade info on rumors in the future. > > The point, which I was attempting to make - and it seemed if possible more > difficult to say here with this intelligent bunch of folks than over in the > r.m.s. sandbox - is that the people who make the stuff we love live on a > shoestring. Even a limited-run ijection kit costs more to get off the ground > than anyone reading this is likely to have in their piggy bank, available for > crapshooting with. And the problem is, with all the market research in the > world, you still have to spend all that money, plus the advertising that has > to keep up regardless, and then find out if the "ultimate judges" like it. > Believe me, if all the guesstimating and crystal ball-gazing worked, every > product of my day job would be a $100 million hit (and we know that doesn't > happen). > > Therefore, it's to our *personal benefit* to consider - before passing on > rumors - whether this is going to help or harm the people rumored about, > because if it harms them it is likely it will ultimately harm us (as the fate > of Toko demonstrates). All I was talking about - and all you were refusing > to hear - is that a bit of responsibility in all the white noise of e-mail > isn't a bad thing. > > I know all of you don't have relationships with someone in the companies you > can call/e-mail for confirmation, but just look at the nature of the rumor > before passing it on. That's all. > > Tom Cleaver > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:59:27 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1:1 scale Gotha anyone - another point Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-29 13:47:17 EST, you write: << A full length, animated remake of "The Fountainhead". Come up with a few catchy tunes, write in a cute little talking rodent for comic relief, (maybe a ground hog that helps Howard Rourke choose building sites) and voila`! An instant smash hit. >> ROTFLMAO Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:17:31 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <37.b15db5.25c4a4db@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-29 14:02:09 EST, you write: << The back of the sheet carries the name "Strombeck-Becker Mfg., Co., Moline, Ill." Does anyone know anything about this line and what other models were available ("OT", of course)? >> This line is known to many of us of a certain age as "Strombecker." They made solid wood models with some plastic detail parts - of which their Lockheed P-80 was the very first model I ever made on my own - and if you still had that kit those decals come from, you could bank your retirement on the price a collector would pay. They were far less successful with their plastic kits, and to my knowledge never made an OT model. First model I ever got - which my father made for me - was their B-29. Those things were solid enough they could even survive the tender mercies of an active 4 year old for at least a summer! Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:20:14 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <36.1750620.25c4a57e@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-29 13:16:17 EST, Lee Mensinger writes: << ot but good info from the past from an older Old Fart. Look up Aircuda. Bell YFM1 (38-351) Flew 01 Sept.1937. Nine more were built. Nacelles were on top of the wing. Crew of five. Guns were at least 20mm >> AFAIK, outside of a pretty good late Rareplanes vacuform, this complete oddball of an airplane hasn't been kitted otherwise. Sure wouldn't mind one, and have mentioned it to Jules at Classic Airframes. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:02:04 +0000 From: Steve Cox To: Subject: Re: First Kits Message-ID: > From: "Charles and Linda Duckworth" > ..... I still recall trying to > get all those struts to line up on the RE8 as a 12 year old....and trying to > rigging it with mom's black thread. > So do I, my Mum had to hold it so I could get the struts in place, and it took ages. Rigging? .... what's that? Regards Steve =========================================== steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk If I didn't spend so much time on line ‹‹ I'd get some models finished ================ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:02:04 +0000 From: Steve Cox To: Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: I don't really know what my first kit was but I do remember a Hawker Hunter and a Starfighter among the oldest. The first OT was probably the Airfix Camel, but I'm not sure about that either. Like Scho I still have it, and every other WW1 kit I've made. Regards Steve =========================================== steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk If I didn't spend so much time on line ‹‹ I'd get some models finished ================ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Leonard > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:52 PM > Subject: An Old Fart Remembers > > >> An exchange off list got me to thinking about the old days, something I'm >> apt to do as the prospect of a bus pass draws ever closer. We established > a >> while ago that the average age on the list is around 42, possibly the only >> time I could claim to be above average in this company, but can we all >> remember what was our first plastic kit and then our first OT kit? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:56:34 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: HaZet Radiators Message-ID: <20000129215634.48376.qmail@hotmail.com> Anybody have a technique for modelling HaZet radiators they care to share? I'd love to see them available in white metal but pigs might fly. Peter L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:07:44 -0600 From: "K. Hagerup" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <389364AF.1EFF@prodigy.net> First kit: I was around 5. My memory of the time is hazy, but I think it was an odd scale F11F in Blue Angels markings. First OT was probably one of the Revell WWI kits. (I, too, built a silver-blue Dr.1.) An Airfix D.V was one of the early bunch as well. Since then, I've built numerous Dr.1s and D.Vs. It is only with the release of the excellent and reasonably priced Eduard D.V (Pegasus' D.V is too expensive) that I may build my last Airfix D.V. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:15:12 -0500 From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Old Farts & Strombecker Message-ID: <38936670.80CF793@svsu.edu> I remember the Strombecker line when I was in grade school circa late 40's. They made a line of antique locomotives sold with or without coaches. This was an American company of course so the selection included an early "DeWitt Clinton" steam locomotive and several stagecoach style coaches. Later a 4-2 locomotive, the "Pioneer" was offered with a tender and single pullman style coach. They were a cross between a wooden toy and a scale model perhaps leaning more towards the toy part of it. Hard to say what scale they were but as I recall they were much larger than HO. I can't swear by it but I think Strombecker also made scale model solid balsa wood WW2 aircraft perhaps 1/48 or larger. They were definately not toys. The kit included solid blocks of wood for the major parts of the aircraft roughly approximating the silhouettes of the wings and fuselage. I had a Stuka and a Stormovik. Someone mentioned Auroras circa 1955. I remember a yellow plastic Zero, a Focke-Wulf, perhaps a couple of other WW2 planes and also an early Soviet "Yak" jet in bright green plastic. Matt Zivich Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 00-01-29 14:02:09 EST, you write: > > << The back of the sheet carries the name > "Strombeck-Becker Mfg., Co., Moline, Ill." Does anyone know anything > about this line and what other models were available ("OT", of course)? > >> > > This line is known to many of us of a certain age as "Strombecker." They > made solid wood models with some plastic detail parts - of which their > Lockheed P-80 was the very first model I ever made on my own - and if you > still had that kit those decals come from, you could bank your retirement on > the price a collector would pay. They were far less successful with their > plastic kits, and to my knowledge never made an OT model. First model I ever > got - which my father made for me - was their B-29. Those things were solid > enough they could even survive the tender mercies of an active 4 year old for > at least a summer! > > Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:17:55 -0500 From: "Roger L. Belanger" To: Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers Message-ID: <00be01bf6aa6$b29fdd80$fac14f0c@rogerbel> My first kit was a Strombecker wooden Locomotive, lousy by today's standards, then I went to rubber powered aircraft. Roger B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Gossen" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 9:50 PM Subject: Re: An Old Fart Remembers > My first kit was the Aurora CF-100 Canuck, bought because they were > constantly flying over the house. I used to climb the apple tree in the back > yard to try to get a closer look. This was followed shortly by a Hawk T-6 > painted as an RCAF Harvard like dad flew. > First OT kit was the Aurora Fokker DVIII. It was green plastic which I > painted in glossy red stripes. Very Christmasy it was. This was follwed > shortly by a Hawk Nieuport and SPAD XIII. > > Brad > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2115 **********************