WWI Digest 2101

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Market sizes
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
  2) Re: Market sizes
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
  3) Re: Market sizes
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
  4) Re: Market sizes
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
  5) Re: HB D1 help
	by Pedro e Francisca <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
  6) hello?
	by "dfernet0" <dfernet0@rosario.gov.ar>
  7) e-bay goodie
	by NAER <geral@naer-novoaeroporto.pt>
  8) e-bay 
	by NAER <geral@naer-novoaeroporto.pt>
  9) Re: newbie says hello, questions about rigging
	by "Matt Bailey" <mgbailey@my-deja.com>
 10) Re: e-bay
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
 11) Re: HB D1 help
	by "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
 12) Re: e-bay
	by "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
 13) Re: Market sizes
	by "cameron rile" <cameron@prontomail.com>
 14) Possible change of address  
	by Unicalce Amministrazione =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alm=E8?= <calcegh2@spm.it>
 15) Re: e-bay
	by "Peter Leonard" <peter_leonard@hotmail.com>
 16) RE: e-bay 
	by "John Glaser" <Jasta11@pdq.net>
 17) failing your duty!!
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
 18) Re: failing your duty!!
	by Allan Wright <aew>
 19) Re: failing your duty!!
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
 20) Re: e-bay
	by Pedro e Francisca <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
 21) RE: Interesting on-topic site
	by Craig Healey <craig.healey@totalise.co.uk>
 22) Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by Zulis@aol.com
 23) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
 24) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by smperry@mindspring.com
 25) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by "Peter Leonard" <peter_leonard@hotmail.com>
 26) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
 27) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
 28) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
 29) Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 30) Dolphin Interiors
	by "David Vosburgh" <dave@vga-graphics.com>
 31) Thanks re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
	by Zulis@aol.com
 32) Re: Dolphin Interiors
	by Ray_Boorman@telus.net
 33) Re: Dolphin Interiors
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:38:04 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Market sizes
Message-ID: <42.b5873d.25b966dc@aol.com>

In a message dated 00-01-21 00:32:00 EST, you write:

<<  We are all adults on this list  (  >  
 insert your joke here  < ) but are we typical of the model-buying market?   
I 
 dont think so, but I could be really out of touch.    Mind you, when we buy 
 models, we buy them by the bushel....  that could really skew the stats. >>

I think that, outside of our particular choice of insanity, we are not that 
atypical of the model-buying market.  When I go to either of the local shops 
here, the youngest guy you see in there is in his mid-20s (and very few of 
them), with a lot in their 30s and 40s.

Tom Cleaver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:39:36 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Market sizes
Message-ID: <d3.9aa8bc.25b96738@aol.com>

In a message dated 00-01-21 00:50:42 EST, you write:

<< Of course I don't know 
 what's going on inside Toys "R" Us, but my bet is that models are not a 
 significant part of their turnover. >>

You can hunt and hunt and hunt in TRU, to find the ten little Revellogram 
models hiding on a back shelf.  If there.  Perhaps a few more during the Xmas 
season.

Tom Cleaver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:41:56 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Market sizes
Message-ID: <d2.7c7abf.25b967c4@aol.com>

In a message dated 00-01-21 01:10:06 EST, you write:

<< and this
 still excludes the toy departments in maybe a couple of dozen K-Mart,
 Woolworths, Target etc. >>

K-Mart and Target here in S. California do not sell models.  Not even cars.

Tom Cleaver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:52:14 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Market sizes
Message-ID: <4.a0f2be.25b96a2e@aol.com>

In a message dated 00-01-21 01:22:55 EST, you write:

<< and this
 > still excludes the toy departments in maybe a couple of dozen K-Mart,
 > Woolworths, Target etc. >>

After saying that K-Mart and Target (Woolworth's is out of business here) 
don't carry models, I was just thinking that, here in Southern California 
where the by-far most-popular boy's name for newborns for the past five years 
is "Jose," we may well be skewed.  Outside of low-rider modeling (and you 
have to see some of these kids who - were they not carrying a model box with 
a *great* model car in it when they enter the display room of a show - would 
be indistinguishable from the neighborhood gang-bangers), I do not think 
model-building is much of a part of Latino culture, and that is by far the 
majority (in terms of numbers if not political) culture here in Los Angeles 
over the past 15 years.  

And over on the West Side, that part of the lower left corner sprawl all of 
you are talking about when you say "Los Angeles" with that sneer in your 
voice (:-)), there is now *one" hobbyshop left, with seven that I know of 
between Santa Monica and Hawthorne having gone "down the tubes" in the past 
six years.   Only here in Burbank (which is really a nice little piece of the 
Midwest dropped into the  east side of The Valley) do you find two hobby 
shops in town, both of which survive by being many things to many different 
modelers, (basically they're "Cheers" bars without the beer).

Tom Cleaver

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:23:59 +0000
From: Pedro e Francisca <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: HB D1 help
Message-ID: <38878AFE.D28BDCB2@mail.telepac.pt>



Nigel Rayner wrote:

> Hi gang,
>
> Help please AH experts. I'm doing a quick build of the Toko HB D1
> Starstrutter and need a bit of help (I have very little on this bird).
>
> - Am I right in assuming that the metal cowl panels and those on the baby
> coffin are grey painted, not bare metal (as Toko suggest)?
>

I guess not, Nigel.

I have the FMP book obn the type and all the photos seem to indicate metal
panels. Also the caption for the colour profiles says:

Basic Colors
D.1s were finished at the factory in natural finish - the linen wa covered with
clear dope, the wood clear varnished and metal surfaces were usually clear
varnished.

>
> - Were there any external control horns/wires in the tail area (for
> rudder/elevators)? The pics I have are too indistinct in this area. If so,
> any description of the setup most welcome.
>

Only horns i can see are on the rudder and these are implanted quite close to
the hinge line, just a tad below the plan of the tailplane, the wire exiting the
fuselage at a point in a perpendicular line with the tip of the tailskid.

HTH

Pedro





------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:25:52 -0300
From: "dfernet0" <dfernet0@rosario.gov.ar>
To: "WW1 modeling Mail List" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: hello?
Message-ID: <000d01bf6413$0a835a80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar>

Hello...
somebody's there?
Am I unsubscribed? I'll find it if this post goes back to me in a few
minutes. Maybe it's just a quiet day....
D.
nb: Pegasus Taube, 1/35 machine gunner
nu: finishing many, oh so many kits already started
nl: "what's in a kiss", Barry Manilow, right? Yeech, gotta change this radio
station.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:44:07 +0000
From: NAER <geral@naer-novoaeroporto.pt>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: e-bay goodie
Message-ID: <388862A7.DAEA496E@naer-novoaeroporto.pt>

This one should be nice too

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=238648055

Pedro

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:53:45 +0000
From: NAER <geral@naer-novoaeroporto.pt>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: e-bay 
Message-ID: <388864E9.C666E6A5@naer-novoaeroporto.pt>

Jesus Christ!


http://woma.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ebaytag1=ebayreg&ht=1&query=airfix&allebay=1&ebaytag1code=39&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&SortOrder=%5Ba%5D

Pedro

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:21:58 -0800
From: "Matt Bailey" <mgbailey@my-deja.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: newbie says hello, questions about rigging
Message-ID: <CDBIMEDLFAOJFBAA@my-deja.com>

Hi Lee,

One method that I've tried with good results is using very thin rigid stainless steel wire.  I drill the holes deep enough so that when I get the right length I can snap the wire into place without using glue.  If the wire still doesn't stay, I use a little bit of white glue on a toothpick to anchor it.


regards,

Matt Bailey 
--

>I do have a question about rigging. I'm sure that this topic has been beaten
>to death in the mailing list, but I would very much appreciate any
>suggestions. What is your prefered method for rigging a 1/48 biplane, 



--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:30:35 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: e-bay
Message-ID: <200001211431.IAA25113@mail2.neonramp.com>

On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:57:36 -0500 (EST), NAER wrote:

> Jesus Christ!

Man!  An Airfix Triplane going for US$26.  What kind of idiots
are these?  I had a thought.  When the bid is almost over, view
the bid history and get the next guy on the lists' email address.
 Tell him you'll sell him an Airfix Triplane for $10, postage
included.  <chuckle>  Think that will work? ;-)


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:42:35 -0600
From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: HB D1 help
Message-ID: <s8881c08.091@mail1-fs.amerus.com>

I looked it up, too, and Pedro's supplied all the data. 

 The only other comment was that Dr. O'Connor says that the metal panels were frequently "riffled" at the factory with hand-sanding to create a pattern not unlike that seen on some Sopwith aircraft like the triplane.  The ostensible reason was to help hide the dirt and oil that accumulated in service, to the detriment of the plane's appearance.

HTH, too.

Lance
 

>>> Pedro e Francisca <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt> 01/21 2:15 AM >>>


Nigel Rayner wrote:

> Hi gang,
>
> Help please AH experts. I'm doing a quick build of the Toko HB D1
> Starstrutter and need a bit of help (I have very little on this bird).
>
> - Am I right in assuming that the metal cowl panels and those on the baby
> coffin are grey painted, not bare metal (as Toko suggest)?
>

I guess not, Nigel.

I have the FMP book obn the type and all the photos seem to indicate metal
panels. Also the caption for the colour profiles says:

Basic Colors
D.1s were finished at the factory in natural finish - the linen wa covered with
clear dope, the wood clear varnished and metal surfaces were usually clear
varnished.

>
> - Were there any external control horns/wires in the tail area (for
> rudder/elevators)? The pics I have are too indistinct in this area. If so,
> any description of the setup most welcome.
>

Only horns i can see are on the rudder and these are implanted quite close to
the hinge line, just a tad below the plan of the tailplane, the wire exiting the
fuselage at a point in a perpendicular line with the tip of the tailskid.

HTH

Pedro







------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:11:51 -0600
From: "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: e-bay
Message-ID: <38888547.791491B4@wireweb.net>


--------------E88674BD625C57E48884E71F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

First time, ever, I actually looked at e-bay.  I do not usually associate with the insane.  It is to risky.

I thought the Airfix DR 1 was to pricey at 70 cents.

So I was right.  I will continue to stay away.

Thank you, Pedro, for re-awakening my sense of reason.
That part of our world is populated by charlatans and fools.  Lee M

NAER wrote:

> Jesus Christ!
>
> http://woma.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ebaytag1=ebayreg&ht=1&query=airfix&allebay=1&ebaytag1code=39&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&SortOrder=%5Ba%5D
>
> Pedro

--------------E88674BD625C57E48884E71F
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
First time, ever, I actually looked at e-bay.&nbsp; I do not usually associate
with the insane.&nbsp; It is to risky.
<p>I thought the Airfix DR 1 was to pricey at 70 cents.
<p>So I was right.&nbsp; I will continue to stay away.
<p>Thank you, Pedro, for re-awakening my sense of reason.
<br>That part of our world is populated by charlatans and fools.&nbsp;
Lee M
<p>NAER wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Jesus Christ!
<p><a href="http://woma.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ebaytag1=ebayreg&ht=1&query=airfix&allebay=1&ebaytag1code=39&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&SortOrder=%5Ba%5D">http://woma.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&amp;ebaytag1=ebayreg&amp;ht=1&amp;query=airfix&amp;allebay=1&amp;ebaytag1code=39&amp;SortProperty=MetaEndSort&amp;SortOrder=%5Ba%5D</a>
<p>Pedro</blockquote>
</html>

--------------E88674BD625C57E48884E71F--


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:17:47 +0000
From: "cameron rile" <cameron@prontomail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Market sizes
Message-ID: <D4952498910D3D115A820005B80A9E19@cameron.prontomail.com>

> In Japan, model-making is seen as an art and model-makers are 
> artists, not overgrown kids playing with toys which is the 
> way the mainstream  sees modelers in the US.
> 
>after Dave Z comments:
>Today, Japan is a huge modelling country, and yet they are 
>also crazy for computer games.  Somehow those two can co-exist 
>over there quite nicely.   Go figure.

One mainstream literary form in Japanese Culture is Manga, which is what
most western based cartoons derived from, some very obviously so. Disney is nothing
more than Westernized and sanitized Manga. In Japan Manga is sold in the same 
manner and amounts as the west sells newspapers and magazines. 

As for Japanese produced console and pc games, I just finished watching my wife
play Zelda and Final Fantasy VIII, both are "Moving Manga". The punch em up titles
which dominate the video arcades are also moving manga, like Street Fighter etc. A
western equivalent would be "Super knockout Financial Review Wrestling VII"  or
"Vogue vs New Yorker" lol Doesnt quite migrate.

Manga and Console Gaming (I think!) are valid adult mainstream leisure activities
in Japan. In the west that translates to watching cartoons and playing games. Not
many westerners admit to doing that, or make excuses when they do. Must be
cultural.



cam




 








______________________________________________________________
Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:59:19 -0100
From: Unicalce Amministrazione =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alm=E8?= <calcegh2@spm.it>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Possible change of address  
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000121175919.00795870@spm.it>

Hello all !
Just a couple of lines to tell you that I am going to have some changes to
my Pc setup, also to change my Internet provider and my e-mail address. I
hope all will go on smoothly, but in case you experience some difficulties
in getting in touch with me, please be patient, as all will be fixed shortly.
All the best,
Alberto Casirati.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:40:31 GMT
From: "Peter Leonard" <peter_leonard@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: e-bay
Message-ID: <20000121174032.19121.qmail@hotmail.com>

Ebay is fine so long as you keep away from the collectors and maintain a 
sense of proportion. I was very pleased to have got an Aurora DH4 for $37 
having seen one at the IPMS UK Nats for the equivalent of $100 just a few 
weeks before, as was pointed out at the time I also ensured that Glencoe 
will now issue their version. Glad to be of service chaps :)

No builder in his right mind is going to pay $26 for an Airfix Dr1, 
especially if he knows there will be an Eduard one along in a minute. And 
there's another issue. Readily available kits are routinely labelled "OOP", 
now that shouldn't be allowed.

Peter L
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:27:03 -0600
From: "John Glaser" <Jasta11@pdq.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: e-bay 
Message-ID: <000101bf6445$7fcff780$8d00000a@johnghome>

Well, glad to see that e-Bay gave Pedro religion.

We've had this discussion before, but the way to do e-Bay is to bid your
fair price (I use the kit collectors guide) right before the auction closes.
I've actually acquired several nice OT things by this method.

Did anyone also notice the O/400?

- JG



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:15:09 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: failing your duty!!
Message-ID: <2d.45bf00.25ba265d@aol.com>

You people have a *duty* to yak!!  And nobody is yakkity-yakking!!  :-)

Tom Cleaver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:23:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Allan Wright <aew>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: failing your duty!!
Message-ID: <200001212123.QAA24632@pease1.sr.unh.edu>

Tom, 

   As administrator I will have to site you for abuse of the list.
Your post failed to have any WWI modeling content.

-Al (joke)
 
> You people have a *duty* to yak!!  And nobody is yakkity-yakking!!  :-)
> 
> Tom Cleaver
> 


===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.           | "Without love, life's just a long fight" - SSJ
University of New Hampshire+---------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center  | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu 
Internet: aew@unh.edu      | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:22:44 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: failing your duty!!
Message-ID: <47.e9836c.25ba2824@aol.com>

In a message dated 00-01-21 16:21:35 EST, you write:

<< 
 Tom, 
 
    As administrator I will have to site you for abuse of the list.
 Your post failed to have any WWI modeling content.
 
 -Al (joke)
  
 > You people have a *duty* to yak!!  And nobody is yakkity-yakking!!  :-)
 > 
 > Tom Cleaver
 >  >>

Revised:

You people have a duty to yakkity-yak about OT material!!  :-)

Tom 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:54:22 +0000
From: Pedro e Francisca <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: e-bay
Message-ID: <3888D58E.B8BBA744@mail.telepac.pt>



John Glaser wrote:

> Well, glad to see that e-Bay gave Pedro religion.

almost 30 bucks for a crappy airfix DR1 can only be explained as a miracle. The
old agnostic in me refused to believe but after this I'm convinced ;-)

>
>
> We've had this discussion before, but the way to do e-Bay is to bid your
> fair price (I use the kit collectors guide) right before the auction closes.
> I've actually acquired several nice OT things by this method.
>
> Did anyone also notice the O/400?

I did.
John , what would the fair price be for a FROG westland wallance

Also, what is the price for a boxed untouched pretty good shape John Lennon by
Revell. A friend of mine has one that he bought some years ago for the price of
a song and I've heard these are quite valuable...

TIA

Pedro

>
>
> - JG


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:22:27 +0000
From: Craig Healey <craig.healey@totalise.co.uk>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: RE: Interesting on-topic site
Message-ID: <38A7E4E5@mail.totalise.co.uk>

>From the look of it, I think the 'plane is doing the following:

>From a dive (the usual entry for most manoeuvres, and still necessary today) 
it is pulling up into a climb. After a few seconds the speed will have 
decreased so much that the plane begins to stall. At this point, use of the 
rudder cause the aircraft to invert and begin to spin. The pilot then corrects 
the spin and side-slips back to normal flight.

It wouldn't take much power, just good co-ordination.

Craig Healey


>===== Original Message From wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu =====
>Whoa!
>check this diagram on the site:
>http://www.richthofen.com/rickenbacker/rickdiagram.jpg
>see "horizontal Vrille" at the top? How he could do that? Did the Spads had
>jet engines to perform those maneuvres?
>D.
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:35:35 EST
From: Zulis@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <3f.f147.25ba3937@aol.com>


Greetings everyone!

Looking for a suggestion or two here.    As a clumsy modeller whose grand 
total of rigged models now reaches "one" (as of two days ago) I have come to 
the conclusion that only an octopus with opposing thumbs can accomplish this 
feat - which explains to me how you folks type so quickly.  :-)

Does anyone use a particular brand of table vise or holding implement that 
they could reccommend?    Ideally, something which is good at gripping our 
particular type of model?

Suggestions gratefully received....

Dave Z

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:58:56 -0600
From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <s8889052.002@mail1-fs.amerus.com>

Dave asks about a:

"...vise or holding implement that they could reccommend?"

I would be amazed if anybody on the list found a vise useful in rigging; I think the only time I use mine is to squeeze propeller laminations together or to hold something hard that needs to be bent.

It is useful to have the plane hold still while you contort yourself to fit the rigging, but you will find yourself wanting the model sometimes on its nose, on its back, on its tail... all sorts of positions that change from second to second as you sweat an elusive connection with your trembling tweezer-gripped wisp of rigging.

I usually find myself using a kit box corner to prop the plane in the position of the moment, and I think most others will confess to the same practice... which explains why so many report that they have dropped the model or knocked it off the table.

Once you find the method you prefer to use (I'm a monofilament devotee), and practice, I think you will find this less of an issue that it may seem after a first attempt.  Just keep the damn thing away from the edge of the work surface, even if you find yourself on one knee peering up at it from below .

As alway, YMMV.

Lance


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:16:34 -0500
From: smperry@mindspring.com
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <001001bf6465$9000a8a0$b80156d1@default>

> Does anyone use a particular brand of table vise or holding implement that
> they could reccommend?

I use my left hand to grip the leading and trailing edges of a wing panel.
That leaves the right hand free to manipulate the tweezers, knife or glue
pin. You do become sort of a manual contortionist with practice.

I glue one end at a time and I have found best results happen when that
first glue joint is allowed to set well, then you can pull the "wire" and
get a nice taught run when the second joint dries.

sp


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:31:48 GMT
From: "Peter Leonard" <peter_leonard@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <20000121233148.90284.qmail@hotmail.com>

Dave, I would agree with everything Lance says, but if you insist we have a 
thing over here called a "helping hand" All it is really is a bunch of 
differently sized and tensioned crocodile clips attached to a system of rods 
and universal joints. If I were looking for one I would go to a fishing 
tackle shop as many anglers use them to tie flies. Figure painters of my 
acquaintance also swear by them.

hth

Peter L
http://www.storks.cwc.net
http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com
PeterL@cwcom.net

no flies were injured or distressed in the production of this e-mail
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:43 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <200001212336.PAA07617@crow.a001.sprintmail.com>

On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:40:37 -0500 (EST), Zulis@aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone use a particular brand of table vise or holding implement that 
> they could reccommend?    Ideally, something which is good at gripping our 
> particular type of model?

Just the top of the workbench and the hand not holding the
rigging.


Matt Bittner
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:39:28 -0600
From: "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <3888EE30.C5A186B9@wireweb.net>

Starting many years ago I drilled many small holes in the model. (After it was
painted.)  On most I thread the monofilament, or what ever, thru holes into the
interior of the fuselage, before installing engines, etc.  I leave lots of
"stuff" outside.  I tie the threads, monofilament, whatever inside and use a
small amount of glue to tack it down.  These are then run thru appropriate holes
in wings.  For the other rigging elements you use only holes in the wings and a
very small amount of glue on one end.  Let it set.  Go thru the other set of
holes, and, I used a small strong spring clip with an appropriate weight of
"fishing sinker" tied to it to apply weight and keep it taut while the opposite
end dried in place.   Clip it flush and a small paint touch up hides the holes.

Stretched Sprue will work as well as the threads.  Glue to the fuselage holes
first then thru the wings, etc.  Cabane rigging especially.  Only way to keep
them taut.

Some use wire for the job.  It is still a good idea to make holes to hold them
in place. The holes need to be drilled at an angle to work the best.

And then you can work on cloning another arm.   Lee M.

Zulis@aol.com wrote:

> Greetings everyone!
>
> Looking for a suggestion or two here.    As a clumsy modeller whose grand
> total of rigged models now reaches "one" (as of two days ago) I have come to
> the conclusion that only an octopus with opposing thumbs can accomplish this
> feat - which explains to me how you folks type so quickly.  :-)
>
> Does anyone use a particular brand of table vise or holding implement that
> they could reccommend?    Ideally, something which is good at gripping our
> particular type of model?
>
> Suggestions gratefully received....
>
> Dave Z


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:22:15 PST
From: "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <20000122002215.97318.qmail@hotmail.com>

>From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
>Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu

>
>I usually find myself using a kit box corner to prop the plane in the 
>position of the moment, and I think most others will confess to the same 
>practice... which explains why so many report that they have dropped the 
>model or knocked it off the table.
>

Lance:

I use cassette tapes, stacked to whatever height I need.  Also good for 
jigging up when putting on the top wing.

Michael
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 18:45:18 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <12D5481D.7385B4C0@bellsouth.net>

I took a lesson from RK and started mixing my paints in the skull of my
enemy, which I've found doubles as a handy vise. Works great, provided the
skull has the lower jaw and teeth intact. :)
Seriously, I agree with Lance and the others. A vise has little or no
application in rigging.
Vice, otoh...
E.



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:00:40 -0500
From: "David Vosburgh" <dave@vga-graphics.com>
To: "WWI Mailing List" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Dolphin Interiors
Message-ID: <001801bf647c$7fe1f3e0$6bd690d0@Pvosburg>

Can anyone tell me whether the Dolphin's interior was open aft of the seat? I don't have
any decent cockpit shots of the original (only Palen's replica), but on some of the photos
I have it looks like the area behind the pilot's head is blanked off with cloth or ply...
some of the drawings I have seem to show an oval opening in this area as well. I'm
basically trying to determine whether the aux./main fuel tanks and rear fuselage framework
would've been visible.

Any and all help gratefully appreciated, as always.

All best,

DV


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:33:40 EST
From: Zulis@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Thanks re: Vice Squad.... er.... vise squad
Message-ID: <cc.a9be5f.25ba7104@aol.com>


First off, thanks for all the replies.    I am using invisible thread 
blackened by marker, and a clumsy imitation of Duras for the technique.

I was using the method described by Lance and struggled a bit - hold model 
with one hand, direct the thread with the other, then pull it through 
with.... what?    This made me think that, if the model was held still, I 
could "stitch it up" with the other two hands.    However, it would involve 
re-setting the model a whole bunch of times to get the right angle for the 
task.  For now, I will take hope from Lance's comment that it should get 
better with experience.

Steve wrote:
<< I glue one end at a time and I have found best results happen when that
first glue joint is allowed to set well, then you can pull the "wire" and
get a nice taught run when the second joint dries. >>

Yes, I discovered this one the hard way (as I am sure all of you have).   I 
was using Dennis' method of up and down through and through when the starting 
point came unglued....

The "helping hand" gizmo described by Peter is actually the one I was 
visualizing - I had seen it somewhere but couldnt recall what it was called.  
   My hands shake a bit ( not the DTs - I take a medication which causes a 
little bit of quivers) and, if I still havent got the hang of this by the 
third or fourth model, I may have to consider this option or the Xacto vise 
suggested by Roger.   Or cloning the third arm.  :-)

Michael wrote:
<< I use cassette tapes, stacked to whatever height I need.  Also good for 
jigging up when putting on the top wing. >>

I was using popsicle sticks taped to little bottles, blocks, anything of the 
right height.  Will add cassette tapes to that list...

So, in summary - will try and struggle along for another few models to see if 
I develop some manual dexterity.   Failing that, will turn to devices and 
gizmos for use in the trickiest spots.     Thanks a lot guys, for all the 
suggestions,

Dave Z

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:34:14 -0800
From: Ray_Boorman@telus.net
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Dolphin Interiors
Message-ID: <200001220234.SAA00395@smtpout.telus.net>

David the plywood decking behind the pilots head contained an 
upper gravity tank, immediately behind the seat was the main tank, 
so there wasn't a lot of open space immediately behind the seat.

hth's
On 21 Jan 00, at 21:05, David Vosburgh wrote:

> Can anyone tell me whether the Dolphin's interior was open aft of the
> seat? I don't have any decent cockpit shots of the original (only
> Palen's replica), but on some of the photos I have it looks like the
> area behind the pilot's head is blanked off with cloth or ply... some
> of the drawings I have seem to show an oval opening in this area as
> well. I'm basically trying to determine whether the aux./main fuel
> tanks and rear fuselage framework would've been visible.
> 
> Any and all help gratefully appreciated, as always.
> 
> All best,
> 
> DV
> 



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:34:30 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Dolphin Interiors
Message-ID: <200001220236.SAA22367@raven.a001.sprintmail.com>

On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:05:26 -0500 (EST), David Vosburgh wrote:

> Can anyone tell me whether the Dolphin's interior was open aft of the seat? I don't have
> any decent cockpit shots of the original (only Palen's replica), but on some of the photos
> I have it looks like the area behind the pilot's head is blanked off with cloth or ply...
> some of the drawings I have seem to show an oval opening in this area as well. I'm
> basically trying to determine whether the aux./main fuel tanks and rear fuselage framework
> would've been visible.

Sorry I can't help with the rear details, but WW1 Aero #109 has
some good forward cockpit shots.  LMK if you're interested.


Matt Bittner
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm



------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 2101
**********************