WWI Digest 2100 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Web goodies by "dfernet0" 2) Re: INlines and Castor Oil was ( RE: E-zines by "D Charles" 3) Re: More Tom Cleaver models by Allan Wright 4) Datafile Flyer by "Peter Leonard" 5) FW: Last British Gallipoli Veteran by "Bob Pearson" 6) Re: making roundels smaller - the final word? by "Steve Cox" 7) Hiero Engine 85 hp by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 8) Market sizes by mkendix@juno.com 9) RE: Market sizes by Shane Weier 10) RE: Market sizes by "Peter Leonard" 11) Re: Market sizes by Zulis@aol.com 12) Re: Market sizes by BStett3770@aol.com 13) Re: Market sizes by "David C. Fletcher" 14) Re: Market sizes by Albatrosdv@aol.com 15) RE: Market sizes by Shane Weier 16) Re: Market sizes by Zulis@aol.com 17) Re: Market sizes by "Peter Leonard" 18) RE: Market sizes by Shane Weier 19) RE: Market sizes by Shane Weier 20) RE: Market sizes by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:11:57 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Web goodies Message-ID: <011601bf632e$c8fc8120$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Tom, Good work! I like pfalzes, and that striped one is one of the nicest paint schemes I've ever seen. I had some trobles to see all the Bristol jpgs, what is a pity. Please fix them. Michael, That Nie.XI a beauty, a bittneric feat of modelling! ;-) D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:41:25 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: INlines and Castor Oil was ( RE: E-zines Message-ID: <000801bf6339$7206d7c0$deb93ecb@charles> Castor oil is a superb lubricant and was probably the best available in the days of the rotary. The rotary engine tended to get rather hot and have very high loads around the pistons/cylinders so needed the best available oil. Hence the use of castor oil. Stationary engines didn't generate the same high loads in the region of the cylinder walls so did not need the same high quality lubricant but they could have, and sometimes did use castor oil. It is interesting to note that experiments were carried out in USA in 1917-18 which showed that mineral oil could be used in rotaries. David -----Original Message----- From: Lance Krieg To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, 20 January 2000 2:47 Subject: Re: INlines and Castor Oil was ( RE: E-zines >There isn't much doubt of the effects of castor oil on the digestive system, and I assume that regular doses of vaporize oil would be very debilitating in short order. >>Ingesting all that castor oil must have also led to a speedy exit >>upon landing! >Did the inline engines ( or non rotary engines ) use Castor Oil as >lubricant? >I believe that castor oil was limited to rotaries as a lost lubricant, and the in-lines used conventional oil. Don't know about radials, though... > >Lance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:21:35 -0500 (EST) From: Allan Wright To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More Tom Cleaver models Message-ID: <200001201321.IAA19034@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Matt Bittner writes: > > Good job as always, Tom. However, you may want to view your HTML > before sending it to Allan. So far I have come across two broken > image links. The fourth picture in the M.1C article has an extra > period at the end, resulting in a 404 error. The other broken > link was in the Pfalz page, and Al already took care of it, once > it was pointed out to him. Corrected. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | "Without love, life's just a long fight" - SSJ University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:44:36 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Datafile Flyer Message-ID: <20000120154436.90118.qmail@hotmail.com> A flyer arrived this morning along with reminder for my yeer 2000 subscription (oops!). Part two of the DVII anthology should be out with the next issue, which is any day now. Peter L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:39:49 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: ww1 mailing list Subject: FW: Last British Gallipoli Veteran Message-ID: <200001202039.MAA16019@mail.rapidnet.net> >From the WW1-L ---------- From: "David Saunders" To: Subject: Last British Gallipoli Veteran Date: Thu, 20 Jan, 2000, 11:00 AM The Gallipoli Association has just been informed that its last Veteran member - Harry D'Arcy Jones has died aged 103. In brief he served with the Worcestershire Yeomanry at Gallipoli and later in Palestine where amongst other actions he took part in the charge at Huji in 1917. Later he served in the Royal Flying Corps and survived a crash in Epping Forest. A full Obituary will be published in the Spring Gallipolian. In the meantime I would be interested to hear of other published Obituaries. Was Harry D'Arcy Jones the last British Veteran or are there still one or two tucked away and unknown to the Association? If not, then the three in Australia are the last survivors from the campaign of 1915. David Saunders Editor The Gallipolian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:24:10 +0000 From: "Steve Cox" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: making roundels smaller - the final word? Message-ID: Just a short note to say I followed Peter's advice, and I'd like to endorse his recommendation. Steve =========================================== steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk If I didn't spend so much time on line ЛЛ I'd get more models finished ================ ---------- >From: "Peter Leonard" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: making roundels smaller >Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000, 8:53 am > > Steve, get down to your local graphics shop and buy yourself an Olfa circle > cutter. It will cost you about five quid and you'll wonder how you ever got > along without it. I use mine to cut odd size roundels from decal stock and > circular formers from plastic card up to 60thou. Get a P-cutter while you're > there. > > Peter Leonard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:06:12 +1100 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: WW1 posts Subject: Hiero Engine 85 hp Message-ID: <3887B104.3CF60E0F@tac.com.au> Hi everyone, this may be a bit of a long shot but does anyone have any images of an 85hp Hiero engine??? I'm going to build one to put into a Taube (suprise,suprise) but I was wondering if there are any other images than those shown in the FMP book Lorna wondering whose fault it is that she is no longer content to build out-of-the-box anymore ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:35:16 -0500 From: mkendix@juno.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Market sizes Message-ID: <20000120.213516.14662.0.mkendix@juno.com> I've been having a conversation off-list that has lead me to wonder about the sizes of the various plastic model markets. Does anyone know what the monetary value of sales is in various countries. I'm particularly interested in the U.S. compared to Japan. Apparently, the japanese market is large but how large is it? Michael ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:11:11 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Market sizes Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1C17@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Michael, > I've been having a conversation off-list that has lead me to > wonder about > the sizes of the various plastic model markets. Does anyone know what > the monetary value of sales is in various countries. I'm particularly > interested in the U.S. compared to Japan. Apparently, the japanese > market is large but how large is it? > I can't give exact figures because the companies don't tell everyone what their sales are, but I read an interview with the owner of Tamiya about 5 years ago in which he told the late Geoff Prentice that much more than half Tamiyas production was for domestic consumption - the rest for *all* of the rest of the world. Tamiya is the biggest manufacturer IIRC, and I expect this gives a clue as to relative sizes which agrees with the often quoted "fact" that Japans total model market is much greater than the USA. I don't know. But here's an interesting aside. If the size of the kit market equated to the number of successful modelling magazines produced, where would *you* guess to be the biggest market? By my estimate there's no correlation - maybe the English/Scots/Welsh are just the most enthusiastic readers! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 03:34:24 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Market sizes Message-ID: <20000121033424.8964.qmail@hotmail.com> Shane...."he told the late Geoff Prentice that much more than half Tamiyas production was for domestic consumption - the rest for *all* of the rest of the world." Makes a lot of sense. Just look at a Japanese Web Store site and see the variety of subjects available, they certainly don't restrict themselves to Trains Planes Boats and Automobiles. Everything from Schoolgirls to Samuri castles, taking in cartoon characters and fantasy figures along the way, I suspect modelling not quite the minority interest it is elsewhere. Peter L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:05:47 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Market sizes Message-ID: <8f.990ad1.25b9351b@aol.com> Peter writes, << I suspect modelling not quite the minority interest it is elsewhere. >> I completely agree, but there is something odd about this. In the 60s and early 70s, modelling here in Canada was HUGE. Loads of magazines, I used to have at least five hobby stores within a few minutes drive of my house. And then Pong happened. Electronic games absolutely devastated the ranks of modellers. Rather than hold a model plane in your hand and imagine what they must have looked like, you could actually fly one on your computer screen. Same goes for cars, tanks etc. Today, Japan is a huge modelling country, and yet they are also crazy for computer games. Somehow those two can co-exist over there quite nicely. Go figure. just rambling, Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:09:29 EST From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Market sizes Message-ID: <88.56991f.25b935f9@aol.com> Hi Tamiya claims the USA is only 5% of the plastic market. And I understand the Europe is 35% of Tamiya Market. So looks the Japanese are much more enthusiastic then the rest of us. Now if we could get em into W.W.I Keep Modeling Barry Rosemont Hobby www.swiftsite.com/rosemonthobby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:28:49 -0800 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Market sizes Message-ID: <3887C461.8432CAD8@mars.ark.com> "much more than half Tamiyas production was for domestic consumption - the rest for *all* of the rest of the world." And I am IPMS/Canada #390 - IPMS/Canada #389 was (he's no longer current) Mr. Tamiya's No.1 son, who was visiting Canada in the winter of 1968/69. If I had arrived in Hobby House (where he and I were recruited) a few minutes earlier, maybe I could have had a lifetime supply of Tamiya kits... so near yet so far! Five models in the final stages - sorry, troops, all radial-engined monoplanes - but what a modelling comeback! Maybe I'll get back to that @#$%^&* D.H.10A yet. Dave Fletcher -- Visit us at our Home Page: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:49:39 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Market sizes Message-ID: <6c.1142107.25b93f63@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-20 21:38:50 EST, you write: << Apparently, the japanese market is large but how large is it? >> Bigger than the U.S., which is one of the smaller markets. Now you understand how Tamiya or Hasegawa can spend US$250,000 per project to do things like the Seiran, or the Ryusei, or the Tenzan - kits which are shelf-sitters here outside of a small number of enthusiasts - and make money. How many Kawasaki T.4's do you think will sell in the US (I know, I know, damn few on this list) because the majority of American modelers don't even know what it is and fewer know that the Blue Impulse are the Japanese version of the Thunderbirds/Blue Angels/Snowbirds/Red Arrows? Those kits not only made their money back selling 90% in the local market, but made the profit level for such as the Swordfish, the Hurricanes, etc. Both Hasegawa and Tamiya make their marketing decisions almost *solely* on their domestic market. In Japan, model-making is seen as an art and model-makers are artists, not overgrown kids playing with toys which is the way the mainstream sees modelers in the US. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:08:27 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Market sizes Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1C18@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Tom says: > In Japan, model-making is seen as an art and model-makers are > artists, not overgrown kids playing with toys which is the > way the mainstream sees modelers in the US. > after Dave Z comments: >Today, Japan is a huge modelling country, and yet they are >also crazy for computer games. Somehow those two can co-exist >over there quite nicely. Go figure. I figure that the two comments above are related ! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:27:14 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Market sizes Message-ID: Shane writes: << Tom says: > In Japan, model-making is seen as an art and model-makers are > artists, not overgrown kids playing with toys which is the > way the mainstream sees modelers in the US. > after Dave Z comments: >Today, Japan is a huge modelling country, and yet they are >also crazy for computer games. Somehow those two can co-exist >over there quite nicely. Go figure. I figure that the two comments above are related ! >> I think you are probably right. I wonder what are the average ages of modellers in the two countries? We are all adults on this list ( > insert your joke here < ) but are we typical of the model-buying market? I dont think so, but I could be really out of touch. Mind you, when we buy models, we buy them by the bushel.... that could really skew the stats. DZ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 05:48:53 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Market sizes Message-ID: <20000121054854.55220.qmail@hotmail.com> DZ..." but are we typical of the model-buying market? " My initial response was to say "no", but on reflection I think we are. I say this for two reasons. Firstly the model shops are full of Peter clones. Their particular obsession may not be WWI, but they all have the same manic tendencies ;) Secondly I reckon most people calling themselves modellers these days make a lot of their purcheses mail order and increasingly on the internet, and Nigel Hannant has a really nice car. Of course I don't know what's going on inside Toys "R" Us, but my bet is that models are not a significant part of their turnover. my twopennyworth Peter L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:59:04 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Market sizes Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1C19@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Dave > I think you are probably right. Lord how I wish that my bosses agreed at the moment :-( > I wonder what are the average ages of > modellers in the two countries? This actually occured to me too just after I posted. I'm prepared to bet that the Japanese market has a higher average age than the average in North America/Europe/Australia *though* one wonders whether the market for cutesy cartoon figures and odd looking robot things crosses generational boundaries. > We are all adults on this list ( > > insert your joke here < ) but are we typical of the > model-buying market? I > dont think so, but I could be really out of touch. Nope. We've been arguing this on rec.models.scale for days. The market in NA is mostly kids, and the same here. > Mind you, when we buy > models, we buy them by the bushel.... that could really skew > the stats. Mmm. I bought between 20 and 30 models last year and finished three. My kids got four or five each and built them all. If they had the money, they'd buy one every day, and finish it the same day *except* that the girls are now becoming hardened competitors and each have one "contest" model under way. This would take about a week to build if I let them have the airbrush without my supervision, so we have delays between weekends. >From my club, and from among my kids cousins and all their friends I also know children who build more models per year than I *buy* so I expect that the junior market really does outsell the enthusiast market by a long way Shane (hot, in Brisbane. 40C==104F and 90% humidty yesterday, feels the same today :-( ) ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:09:00 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Market sizes Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1C1A@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Peter, > DZ..." but are we typical of the model-buying market? " > > My initial response was to say "no", but on reflection I > think we are. I say > this for two reasons. Firstly the model shops are full of > Peter clones. > Their particular obsession may not be WWI, but they all have > the same manic > tendencies ;) Secondly I reckon most people calling > themselves modellers > these days make a lot of their purcheses mail order and > increasingly on the > internet, and Nigel Hannant has a really nice car. Of course > I don't know > what's going on inside Toys "R" Us, but my bet is that models > are not a > significant part of their turnover. > Not looking in the right shops mate IMHO. I see lots of Shane clones in the *model* shop, but when I go to the *toy* shop with my three kids the models are being bought by kids (or their harrassed looking parents - incl. me). There are four *model* shops in Brisbane/Ipswich and *pages* of toy shops in the Yellow Pages directory (Toyworld alone has 28 franchises) - and this still excludes the toy departments in maybe a couple of dozen K-Mart, Woolworths, Target etc. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:22:10 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Market sizes Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1C1B@mimhexch.mim.com.au> I said: > Not looking in the right shops mate IMHO. I see lots of Shane > clones in the > *model* shop, but when I go to the *toy* shop with my three > kids the models > are being bought by kids (or their harrassed looking parents > - incl. me). > There are four *model* shops in Brisbane/Ipswich and *pages* > of toy shops > in the Yellow Pages directory (Toyworld alone has 28 > franchises) - and this > still excludes the toy departments in maybe a couple of dozen K-Mart, > Woolworths, Target etc. > One thing I meant to add. I have no doubt that the average age of "a modeller" has risen dramatically since the 60's. Then *every* boy built kits, now relatively few do. Unfortunately only a small percentage of my friends of years (ahem, lots) ago still model, but they'd be a bigger portion of the market now than back then, but still less than the junior market. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2100 **********************