WWI Digest 2094 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Pics of RFC cockpit timepiece by Zulis@aol.com 2) Re: making roundels smaller by Pedro e Francisca 3) Re: Fuel & Water Lines by "D Charles" 4) Re: Riggers books by "D Charles" 5) Eduard D.V by "Matthew Bittner" 6) Re: Nie 11/17 Aileron Mechanism? by "Lee Mensinger" 7) Re: Eduard D.V by "K. Hagerup" 8) Re: Eduard D.V by Albatrosdv@aol.com 9) Re: Gavia Fokker DII. by "Peter Leonard" 10) RE: Riggers books by Shane Weier 11) RE: Periodical dream by Shane Weier 12) RE: Periodical dream by Shane Weier 13) RE: Periodical dream by Shane Weier 14) Re: making roundels smaller by "Len Smith" 15) Re: Eduard D.V by "Matthew Bittner" 16) Hyperscale by Carlos Valdes 17) Progress? WAS Re: Periodical Dream by "David Vosburgh" 18) Re: making roundels smaller by "Steve Cox" 19) Re: Hyperscale by Albatrosdv@aol.com 20) lozenge pattern names by Charles Hart 21) Re: Progress? WAS Re: Periodical Dream by Ernest Thomas 22) Thanks all, was :Re: Nie 11/17 Aileron by skarver@banet.net 23) VAMPS e-mail? by skarver@banet.net 24) RE: making roundels smaller by Shane Weier 25) RE: making roundels smaller by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:04:18 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Pics of RFC cockpit timepiece Message-ID: <1a.cca05.25b256f2@aol.com> Greetings! We have discussed a few times the highly valued timepieces that the RFC pilots had in the cockpits and how they were responsible for retreiving them from wrecks. For those interested in pics, two of them are on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=231830493 Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:45:26 +0000 From: Pedro e Francisca To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: making roundels smaller Message-ID: <3880F885.740744E@mail.telepac.pt> Steve Cox wrote: > Hi all, > Does anyone out there have a neat trick for cutting down a decal roundel > so that it is still cirular? I have a sheet of RNAS markings but they are > all too large for the narrow chord wings on the AD Sparrow I'm nb > > TIA > > Steve > = Steve, some time ago I had the saem sort of problem since I needed to cut frisket circles. I ended up buying an x-acto compass cutter (it has a free-rotating blade that will keep the same position vis-a-vis the paper being cut while you rotate the compass). It did the trick but just barely, because it tended to go spiralling... I've heard from the list that there are other brands of compass cutters so you might want to check your art supplies store. HTH Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:50:10 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: Fuel & Water Lines Message-ID: <005801bf5fb5$b4266e40$7fb93ecb@charles> Dave Most of the fuel lines I've seen that are near original are made from copper pipe. In the engine bay area they would be bare copper. Outside the engine bay they are often painted the local colour. David -----Original Message----- From: David Vosburgh To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, 15 January 2000 1:18 Subject: Fuel & Water Lines >Hi All > >Anyone willing to hazard a guess as to what color the fuel lines should be on a >British-built "D" series Hispano-Suiza --- copper? Black japanned? Rubber covered? > >I'm also wondering about the radiator plumbing, which looks like it might be silver in the >photo I have. > >TIA, > >DV > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:05:21 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: Riggers books Message-ID: <005901bf5fb5$b56556e0$7fb93ecb@charles> >> Can you pass on the title and details? I could do with a good read. > >I recently got the "One Airman's War : Diary of Joe Bull" who was a rigger with >1 Sqn AFC and amongst others rigged B1229, one of the aircraft Ross Smith flew >regularly. It is his diary in day by day form accompanied with the photo's he took. >His diary is pretty point like and not written as a story, but it is very interesting >and has a tonne of data on 1 AFC as appendices. > Go to the publisher at www.banner-books.com.au for the above book and others, mainly WWII. You could email "War Books Australia" at warbooksamhp@one.net.au for a catalogue but they are mainly ot. I've used both over the last few years without any problems. David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:17:38 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Eduard D.V Message-ID: <200001160020.QAA14231@magpie.a001.sprintmail.com> The #100 issue of Replic shows color box tops for all three 1/72nd Albatros D.V releases. The 'profipack' version has box top art for NASM's "Stropp". Cool! Unfortunately I don't know the markings for the third release - it looks sort of like an A-H scheme with green "stipples" on the fuselage. Bring 'em on!! That way they can get to the Nieuport 17 . Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0600 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Nie 11/17 Aileron Mechanism? Message-ID: <38812970.9CFD121@wireweb.net> I am sure that the design, what ever it may look like , will be relative to the aircraft in which it is installed. Many planes of WW I are connected to the ailerons by means of cables that travel in an arrangement of pulleys and they are proprietary to the aircraft in question. A few have a push or pull rod up to the upper wing. Need to know what plane you are asking about. Lee skarver@banet.net wrote: > Can someone provide a > picture or drawing of the > aileron control mechanism > to which the bell crank > arms (?) connect inside > the cockpit? I have > plans showing a hexagonal > device but cannot figure > out details of placement > and connectivity. > TIA to all & regards, > Stef ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 20:17:43 -0600 From: "K. Hagerup" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Eduard D.V Message-ID: <38812A47.2168@prodigy.net> Matthew Bittner wrote: > The #100 issue of Replic shows color box tops for all three > 1/72nd Albatros D.V releases. The 'profipack' version has box > top art for NASM's "Stropp". Cool! Unfortunately I don't know > the markings for the third release - it looks sort of like an A-H > scheme with green "stipples" on the fuselage. It may be Gontermann's D.V of Jasta 15. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 23:27:54 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Eduard D.V Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-15 21:21:48 EST, you write: << Unfortunately I don't know > the markings for the third release - it looks sort of like an A-H > scheme with green "stipples" on the fuselage. >> Wasn't aware that A-H used the D.V (now all you "experten" can nail me :-)) Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:32:06 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Gavia Fokker DII. Message-ID: <20000116093206.77147.qmail@hotmail.com> Len, cheers mate. Once my card has recovered from the spanking it's had lately I'll order one. Or maybe from Lubos? Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:14:40 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Riggers books Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BEB@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Cam, > > Can you pass on the title and details? I could do with a good read. > > I recently got the "One Airman's War : Diary of Joe Bull" who > was a rigger with > 1 Sqn AFC and amongst others rigged B1229, one of the > aircraft Ross Smith flew > regularly. Bingo. That's one of them. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:28:18 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Periodical dream Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BEC@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Matt, > Does this make sense, or am I talking out the side of my mouth? > When hell freezes over. I might just be an old fogey, but the experience of reading a magazine/book beats the crap out of anything ever seen on a screen. I imagine a time will come when there will be electronic means which give the full, mobile, tactile experience of a proper magazine, but for now there's no contest. I'm also highly dubious about the merits of buying magazines only on the basis of getting the ones with the article we "want" at the time. That works when budgetary constraint prevent any fuller collection, but I'm really very glad that when I could afford it I bought every issue of every modelling magazine worth its cover price. MANY times the magazines had little to recommend them, but also, many times, I've discovered that the items I once flicked past have become crucial resources later on. So much so, that 8 years since the last time I modelled a kero burner, I still index all the articles, just in case. I read an interesting article last week. In it the journalist suggested that if Gutenburg (sp?) had invented the internet instead of movable type, the appearance of a newspaper now would be revolutionary. "Look what a pulped tree can do ! And it can be folded, torn, wet, and still provide the information, even (in a bind) used in an emergency in the smallest reading room" The journo was 30 years behind the times. Asimov wrote a shrt story many years ago pointing out the things a book could do - in a way that computers then, and still, cannot Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:34:07 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Periodical dream Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BED@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Fernando: > With illustrated books, > you can get > images with higher resolution than you would in a printed > paper book. Requires a 100 fold increase over the current best technology to get the same resolution of a moderately well printed book on non glossy paper. Requires a 10,000 fold increase from normal home PC to art quality on glossy paper. Requires almost a 4million fold increase to equal the resolution of a medium speed film, and something of the order of 20million to equal fine film. Figures above from an article in a computer graphics industry house magazine. While this is all possible - Why do it? Personally, I prefer the book > "E-Book" you put on your bedstand could hold your entire WW I aviation > library in it's multi-gigabyte hard drive. ....and crash and lose the lot. No thanks. Same can happen with my paper library, but I've seen thousands of PC's crash since the last book did ;-) Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:36:19 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Periodical dream Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BEE@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Dave Z says: > My cousin is involved in an investment group working on a > project in this > direction, and he told me some interesting things. Their > research shows > that people want to have something tangible after they spend > their money - > plugging into a computer and doing a simple download for $30 > of material that > now resides on your hard drive is, apparently, unsatisfying > to the average > consumer. Email Paolo Pizzi, who started one of the first pay per view internet modelling sites. Ask HIM about what people are willing to pay to view, or mention the subject on rec.models.scale. Either way, you'll start a flame war. Not too many want to pay at *all* Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:06:37 -0000 From: "Len Smith" To: Subject: Re: making roundels smaller Message-ID: <01dc01bf6015$8f01c1e0$ea4f08c3@mesh> Steve, You are soooo right! Put it down to an old man's failing intellect, I was confusing the Blackburn Triplane with the Sparrow. Revised alternative suggestion is the Pegasus sheet of RFC/RNAS roundels and Union Flags No.7209, which I believe is still available. It includes the early Red/White RNAS roundels. Regards Len. lensmith@clara.net http://home.clara.net/lensmith ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Cox To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 10:26 PM Subject: Re: making roundels smaller > Len, > I have three photos in two books, all of Serial No.1536. All three show > roundels, or at least bits of them. The roundels appear to be the early > naval 'red ring' with no centre. Certainly not like the ones supplied with > the kit > Thanks > Steve > =========================================== > steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk > http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk > If I didn't spend so much time on line > << I'd get more models finished > ================ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Eduard D.V Message-ID: <200001161224.EAA25882@magpie.a001.sprintmail.com> On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 23:33:22 -0500 (EST), Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > << Unfortunately I don't know > > the markings for the third release - it looks sort of like an A-H > > scheme with green "stipples" on the fuselage. >> > > Wasn't aware that A-H used the D.V (now all you "experten" can nail me :-)) They didn't. Like I said, it sort of looks like an A-H bird being stippled and all. I believe Ken Hagerup has the pilot right on this one. Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:34:30 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Hyperscale Message-ID: <3881D6F6.7D46@conted.gatech.edu> Finally, Hyperscale has an OT model feaure. Take a look at http://www.hyperscale.com/gallery/fokkerdrIhdm_1.htm Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:25:18 -0500 From: "David Vosburgh" To: "WWI Mailing List" Subject: Progress? WAS Re: Periodical Dream Message-ID: <001301bf6046$a9c991c0$6fd690d0@Pvosburg> Re: Fernando, citing the recent Newsweek article which predicts: >the paper >printed book will have "Gone West" by the year 2020. ...and according to the 1950s-vintage "Popular Science" magazines, weren't we all going to be flying to work in personal jetcopters by now, and be eating our food in the form of little pills? ;-) DV ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:15:56 +0000 From: "Steve Cox" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: making roundels smaller Message-ID: Len , full circle, or should that be full roundel? That's the sheet I have, and there's every size except the right size, but there are some on there which will cut down and look right. Does anyone out there have a neat trick for cutting down a decal roundel so that it is still circular? :-) I'm going shopping for an Olfa Regards Steve =========================================== steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk If I didn't spend so much time on line ‹‹ I'd get more models finished ================ ---------- >From: "Len Smith" > Steve, > ..........alternative suggestion is the Pegasus sheet of RFC/RNAS roundels and Union Flags No.7209, ........... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:57:57 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Hyperscale Message-ID: <96.95b40.25b36eb5@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-16 09:33:26 EST, you write: << Finally, Hyperscale has an OT model feaure. Take a look at http://www.hyperscale.com/gallery/fokkerdrIhdm_1.htm >> Not only that, but a WW1 model by a first-timer that I suspect many on the list would be proud to claim as their own. I sent him an invitation to join our bunch of loonies. Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:46:29 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: lozenge pattern names Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000116124629.009b6e70@spot.colorado.edu> De-lurking for a moment..... >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:37:35 -0600 >From: "DAVID BURKE" >To: >Subject: Re: Care and feeding of airplanes. >Message-ID: <004701bf5eb6$5927c2a0$4793aec7@dora9sprynet.com >They just finished a >Fokker E-V which is in the US Army Museum at Fort Rucker, Dothan, Alabama >You mean there's actually something cool in Alabama? >Actually, I know of something else. The Southern Museum of Flight here in >Birmingham is restoring a Fokker D.VII. O.K., so it's a replica, and it was >owned by the gentleman who used to live up around Huntsville. They are >trying to replicate the lozenge pattern and are having a tough time doing >the underside. The lozenge pattern starts with an 'N' (apparently it's a >type of pattern). They have Munsell numbers, but can't find chips to get >the colors matched. > AnyHelp? Working from memory.. The "N" pattern being referred to here is the name Knowlton, the town in Quebec where the Broome County Historical Society posesses an original Fokker D-VII which mostly retains its original finish. A Windsock issue a few years back has some color detail photos of this machine on the cover. This was the first time I had ever seen color photos of this aircraft after being aware of its existence for many years. The "Knowlton" Fokker is mostly covered with 4-color fabric and the varnish overcoats are quite yellow with age. Interior shots give a better impression of the true colors of the fabric. Apparently this machine was given some amount of restorative work in the 1960's or 70's and some replica fabric was applied. How much and where I don't know. Reading of the Smithsonian Albatros D-V book gives some further background on this old nomenclature. At the time, around 1980, the original fabric on the Broome County Fokker and the AWM Canberra Albatros D-V were the only recognized original lozenge fabrics. The Canberra Albatros had 5-color fabric, which for a while was referred to as the "Canberra" pattern. Thankfully, we know better now. The Texas Fokker D-VII replica, which now resides in the USAFM in Dayton, Ohio is covered with 5-color fabric. This replica fabric was produced by Silberstreife (I believe this spelling is correct) in Germany. The replica fabric was the result of research performed by the team in Berlin that restored the Halberstadt Cl-IIs from the Strahle collection, 4 airframes in all. Interestinglly, this collection had a substantial quantity of 5-color fabric, which was preserved. There is another Windsock issue from about 4 or so years ago with a color photo showing Peter Grosz standing next to a panel of the original 5-color fabric and holding a big piece of the replica fabric. The two are basically indistinguishable. As an aside, this restoration of the Strahle Halberstadts also revealed a substantial piece of Naval hexagon printed camouflage fabric. Dan San Abbott wrote about this in WW I Aero a few years back. I might dispute his notion that the pattern was skewed off the vertical by 5 degrees. Deliberately doing some thing like that doesn't make any sense. However, I don't know enough about fabric printing to attribute this to fabric stretch or not. Charles Hart Wishing it would snow. hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 14:27:12 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Progress? WAS Re: Periodical Dream Message-ID: <12D50B9F.DEEA37A3@bellsouth.net> David Vosburgh wrote: > ..and according to the 1950s-vintage "Popular Science" magazines, weren't we all going to > be flying to work in personal jetcopters by now, and be eating our food in the form of > little pills? ;-) > You mean to tell me you're not? Get with the times son. E. who's getting in his jetcopter to go to the food pill store right now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:16:09 -0500 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Thanks all, was :Re: Nie 11/17 Aileron Message-ID: <38823519.8A7C3E0C@banet.net> Good afternoon-- Thanks Mike. A couple of list-ers have provided the references I needed to figure out what's what. Now all I need are the brains to figure out how to model it in 1/48 scale! Appreciatively, Stef Mike Fletcher wrote: > The two are the same in theory but differ in the details. > Let me know which one you are looking for and I'll send scans. > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:19:05 -0500 From: skarver@banet.net To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: VAMPS e-mail? Message-ID: <388235C9.216F4F14@banet.net> There seems to be no e-mail/'contact-us' hot button at the VAMPS site. Am I missing it? Stef ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:45:12 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: making roundels smaller Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BEF@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Matt< > On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 03:53:49 -0500 (EST), Peter Leonard wrote: > > > Clipped* * * * * * *V > > > Steve, get down to your local graphics shop and buy > yourself an Offa circle > > cutter. > > >Get a P-cutter while you're there. > > Clipped * * * * * * * *^ > In Australia (and the UK too if the UK based modelling mags are anything to go by) the trade name is O*L*FA, not O*F*FA HTH Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:49:18 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: making roundels smaller Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BF0@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Mike, > They are called Olfa where I am... I knew I shoulda read the responses before answering... > It will create problems with the proportions though. > Much better to make the roundel from scratch with the olfa cutter. > (trimmed red dot that is the right size over white disk cut > to size over > a blue disk that is cut to size) FWIW I make the white disk first, then put a blue ring and a red dot on top. The white ring helps with the colour density of the other colours, and if you want a topside roundel with the white surround, one disk does both white rings Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2094 **********************