WWI Digest 2091 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Aileron deflection on models by Ray_Boorman@telus.net 2) RE: Aileron deflection on models by Ray_Boorman@telus.net 3) Re: Aileron deflection on models by smperry@mindspring.com 4) RE: Aileron deflection on models by Shane Weier 5) Re: Aileron deflection on models by smperry@mindspring.com 6) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "Lee Mensinger" 7) Re: Aileron deflection on models by Ray_Boorman@telus.net 8) RE: Aileron deflection on models by Shane Weier 9) Re: Aileron deflection on models by Mike Fletcher 10) RE: Aileron deflection on models by Shane Weier 11) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "David C. Fletcher" 12) Re: Gavia 1/48 Fokker D.II by "Bob Pearson" 13) Re: unsuspected OT literature by Ernest Thomas 14) Re: unsuspected OT literature by Zulis@aol.com 15) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "Peter Leonard" 16) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "Peter Leonard" 17) Heavenly hobby shops was: Re: unsuspected OT literature by smperry@mindspring.com 18) New WW1 site by Unicalce Amministrazione =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alm=E8?= 19) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "D Charles" 20) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "D Charles" 21) Fuel & Water Lines by "David Vosburgh" 22) Farman F-40bis rigging support structure colour by "Michael Kendix" 23) Re: Farman F-40bis rigging support structure colour by "Matthew Bittner" 24) Blue Rider question by "Matthew Bittner" 25) Blue Rider again by "Matthew Bittner" 26) RE: Parachutes? by "dfernet0" 27) RE: Parachutes? by "Matthew Bittner" 28) RE: Parachutes? by "dfernet0" 29) RE: unsuspected OT literature by "dfernet0" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:38:57 -0800 From: Ray_Boorman@telus.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <200001140239.SAA28691@smtpout.telus.net> Trust a Harvard person to ruin our game.... Oh you mean the Aircraft not the school ;) On 13 Jan 00, at 21:08, David C. Fletcher wrote: > a1b73869@telus.net wrote: > > "I've always wondered about the ways some control surfaces are modeled > to be at various angles." > > Okay troops - nothing is as easy as it seems. I know it's "ot", but I > do have the rigging manuals for the Harvard and T-6. Aileron travel > on early T-6 models was down 15 degrees, up 30 degrees (and the same > for all Harvards); late model T-6s had the same downtravel (15 > degrees) and the up travel resticted to 15 degrees - so there goes the > differential aileron theory! The elevator travel was 30 degrees up, > 20 degrees down and rudder travel was 35 degrees left and right on > early models and restricted to 30 degrees when a Mustang tailwheel > steering assembly was installed. Those figures all seem to be fairly > typical and are probably safe as maximum deflections. > > So, whether or not aileron deflection is equal or differential even > differs from one model of the same aircraft to another. The old rule > of "use a photo" applies. Retreating from even muddier waters... > > Dave Fletcher > -- > Visit us at our Home Page: > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:04:16 -0800 From: Ray_Boorman@telus.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <200001140304.TAA08747@smtpout.telus.net> Thanks Shane that makes sense to me. Just for the record I always have the elevator drooping and rudder offset, but seldom touch the aileron, I guess I might rethink that a bit, the key I guess is to make the offset a small increment. Ray On 13 Jan 00, at 19:35, Shane Weier wrote: > I can make a guess. Put the stick in a neutral position. Remember that > there are *no* locks on most aircraft. Now get out of the *cramped* > confines of the office without knocking the stick with one or the > other leg as you disentangle them from the rudder bar and around the > stick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:15:34 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <004001bf5e3d$a0db3600$0c0d56d1@default> Shane makes a real valid point about WWI aircraft being the Hi Tech equipment of the day. I wonder if any in our merry band who are of a more schollarly bent have come across evidence that the military and or the aviation industries of the belligerant nations made any concerted efforts to attract or round up skilled woodworkers? >From which established trade(s) did most of the engine mechanics come from? sp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:24:19 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BE2@mimhexch.mim.com.au> SP > I wonder if any in our merry band who > are of a more > schollarly bent have come across evidence that the military and or the > aviation industries of the belligerant nations made any > concerted efforts to > attract or round up skilled woodworkers? I should think so. Almost every woodworking shop in England was making parts for aircraft. I'd imagine that this made cabinetmaking a reserved occupation and therefore not liable for callup to the PBI > > >From which established trade(s) did most of the engine > mechanics come from? Most of the ones I've read bio's of were automechanics. Makes sense. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:31:26 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <005901bf5e3f$d7321f00$0c0d56d1@default> > > >From which established trade(s) did most of the engine > > mechanics come from? > > Most of the ones I've read bio's of were automechanics. Makes sense. It does, but I keep getting this image of a rotary engine powered automobile slinging castor oil and sliding thru red lights on slippery tires. Sorry, it just popped up(flashed back?) sp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:01:29 -0600 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <387E9F99.FD6894BD@wireweb.net> Way off topic The main point is as follows.. It is almost physically impossible to fasten the control column in a forward position with the seat belt. Think about it. I was taught to use it as I said, with the plane facing the wind, tie it back. Tie downs under the wings. It worked. The other choices are leave it unhooked or create another tool to do it a different way Not every one does it. A T-6/Harvard and many other aircraft are much to heavy to be affected by the wind. Planes weighing less than or in the vicinty of 1000 pounds and fairly well balanced can nose over with a wind under the tail. Therefore you do something to prevent it. Consider what you might have to do with a Tiger Moth, DR-1 or a Camel compared to an F-14, or a T-6. A 5,000 to 10,000 pound or more plane is not going anywhere and of course a B-17 is a whole different ball game. C-130 aircraft at Ashiya AB in Japan suffered excessive nose gear failure beginning shortly after they were stationed there starting in 1957. Problem was why??? Solution found. Chain down the nose gear and put the nose of the plane into the wind. The prevailing wind at Ashiya was 19 + knots. Above 17 Knots the aircraft would have air flowing across either the up or down elevators. Either position cause the plane to rock up and down nose to tail. Nose gear was made to take the impact of landing a short run and then park. Rocking up and down 24 hours a day caused excessive wear on all of the seals allowing oil to by pass upon landing and damaging the landing gear requiring excessive and expensive maintainence. Solution involved, parking the plane into the wind (from the north) with the elevators in neutral. Use a gizmo like a "come-along" (Semi trailer drivers use them to tighten loads on flat beds) to pull down the nose gear into a compressed condition that prevented the up and down motion. Problem solved. I was not in flight line maintainence. I was a weather forecaster. We were require to notify the base flight line personnel any time we expected the wind to exceed 17 knots. They gave us the reason why they wanted the information. We did the best we could. They would go check, and, any planes not pulled down would get the treatment. This is one of many reasons things are done or not done where ever airplanes fly. You do what you can to protect the machine and peoples lives. If it works-do it. Lee Shane Weier wrote: > Lee, > > > With the plane facing into the wind the stick was usually > > pulled to the rear and > > the seat belt pulled up tight on the stick. This way the > > tail plane was being > > pressed downward by the airflow.. It is almost impossible to > > fasten the stick > > in a forward position with the seat belt. > > I doubt if it was fastened at all most of the time. Look at a lineup of WW1 > aircraft and many (most) times the elevator(s) is/are on or near the ground > - so surely the seat belt was *not* used to fasten the stick *though* I dare > say a modern day pilot might do so. > > I only have one datafile at work with me at the moment - Albatros C.VII - > and the great majority of unmanned aircraft have the elevator deflected > down, almost to or actually touching the ground. (I'm excluding the > obviously broken aircraft BTW) > > The only ones unmanned and with neutralised elevator are on trestles, so > presumably being rigged, or factory "posed" photos. The rigging notes for > most aircraft require that the control surfaces be fixed in position during > rigging so that the controls can be rigged in the neutral position, so this > is easily explained. BUT the serviceable aircraft on the flightline either > don't have the stick fastened or it's right forward. > > In any case, the issue I was writing about was to surmise why the > *ailerons* are centred or almost so - when the stick isn't (by the evidence > of the photos) locked. > > Shane > > ************************************************************** > The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential > and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). > If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution > or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are > requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems > to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. > E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. > ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:58:51 -0800 From: Ray_Boorman@telus.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <200001140359.TAA01487@smtpout.telus.net> How about a Bentley or Hispano engined limousine, Custum built body in Metal and wood..... The height of luxury and craftsmanship..... On 13 Jan 00, at 22:36, smperry@mindspring.com wrote: > It does, but I keep getting this image of a rotary engine powered > automobile slinging castor oil and sliding thru red lights on slippery > tires. Sorry, it just popped up(flashed back?) sp > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:12:25 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BE3@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Lee, > The other choices are leave it unhooked or create another > tool to do it a different way Sorry mate. I agree entirely - but we seem to be talking at cross purposes! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:23:14 -0500 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <387EA4B2.1C2C42BA@home.com> Ray_Boorman@telus.net wrote: > > How about a Bentley or Hispano engined limousine, Custum built > body in Metal and wood..... The height of luxury and > craftsmanship..... a Hispano-Suiza with Nieuport coachwork? ;) -- Mike Fletcher ___ ., mdf@mars.ark.com |-\|^----! ; nieuport@home.com |--n--""*" http://members.home.net/nieuport/ icq=19554083 @ http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/nieuport.html If you don't know where you're going, you're never lost. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:22:55 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1BE4@mimhexch.mim.com.au> SP > > > >From which established trade(s) did most of the engine > > > mechanics come from? > > > > Most of the ones I've read bio's of were automechanics. Makes sense. > > It does, but I keep getting this image of a rotary engine > powered automobile > slinging castor oil and sliding thru red lights on slippery > tires. Sorry, it just popped up(flashed back?) I have a sneaking suspicion that you will find that rotary engines (OT ones, not the altogether different modern auto rotary) WERE used in some automobiles (but I bet it wasn't succesful or we'd still be driving them ;-) I take your point but the reason a 1914 motor mechanic would make a good aircraft mechanic is that way back then his training would have included *building* engines for cars, casting or forging metal parts, using lathes and so forth NOT just changing the carburetor/plugs/rings/valves with another out of a box. Harry Miller - a friend in Australia of Kauper (gun synchro), Harry Hawker and Harry Busteed (test pilot/aircraft designers) - who later became an RE-8 pilot in 3AFC started out making car engines, then aircraft parts and aircraft in Melbourne before travelling to England to join Hawker at Sopwiths. His bio is interesting in part because of the surprising amount of engineering work he'd needed to master *just* to be a car mechanic. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:31:16 -0800 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <387EA694.3651ECF@mars.ark.com> smperry@mindspring.com wrote: "...I keep getting this image of a rotary engine powered automobile slinging castor oil and sliding thru red lights on slippery tires..." Even more scary was the rotary engined motorcycle, where the engine formed the spokes of the rear wheel. I can imagine the fun of trying to turn a corner at speed with that big gyroscope at the back trying to go in a straight line - but it was produced around the turn of the last (?) century. Perhaps the mechanics who worked on that contraption ended up as Ack Emmas... Dave Fletcher -- Visit us at our Home Page: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:25:03 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Gavia 1/48 Fokker D.II Message-ID: <200001140447.UAA19435@mail.rapidnet.net> Charlie asks. . > Bob how does the outline match up to the DF Special on early Fokker > fighters? Damned if I know. . send me the DF and I'll let you know. I haven't been able to afford any of the WW1 journals for the last year :-( Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 22:44:02 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: <12D97491.30964C98@bellsouth.net> Zulis@aol.com wrote: > Amazing.... he has been staying in a hotel about 600 feet from > Toronto's best aviation modelling shop, but was unable to locate it. I > wonder if that is because there is a club featuring exotic dancers in > between? :-) > Man! A hobby shop next door to a strip club. It's like what I imagine heaven is. Except in my imaginings, heaven is a hobby shop with exotic dancers as the counter help. E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:49:35 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-13 23:46:48 EST, you write: << > Amazing.... he has been staying in a hotel about 600 feet from > Toronto's best aviation modelling shop, but was unable to locate it. I > wonder if that is because there is a club featuring exotic dancers in > between? :-) > Man! A hobby shop next door to a strip club. It's like what I imagine heaven is. Except in my imaginings, heaven is a hobby shop with exotic dancers as the counter help. E. >> I will forward your idea to Aviation World - see what they can work out with their neighbor. As long as they dont make their current counter help into exotic dancers..... :-) DZ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:10:24 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <20000114101024.68526.qmail@hotmail.com> If any listee wants to learn more about this and related subjects, and I for one believe that a better understanding of how the real thing works leads to better models, seek out "Flight Without Formula" by Kermode. Probably long out of print but worth the effort. Peter L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:15:28 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <20000114101528.79176.qmail@hotmail.com> Mike Fletcher (jokingly) "a Hispano-Suiza with Nieuport coachwork? ;)" Titter ye not, it happenned Peter L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 05:56:02 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Heavenly hobby shops was: Re: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: <003301bf5e7d$f30865c0$f90156d1@default> > Man! A hobby shop next door to a strip club. It's like what I imagine heaven > is. > Except in my imaginings, heaven is a hobby shop with exotic dancers as the > counter > help. Wearing yellow and dark olive green halters with little white faces painted on them...."Bye dear, I'm headed to the hobby shop. Gonna continue that discussion about Voss' cowl with the guys." :-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:20:12 -0100 From: Unicalce Amministrazione =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alm=E8?= To: aew@unh.edu Cc: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: New WW1 site Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000114132012.00797e80@spm.it> Just a few lines to tell you about a new WW1 page at: http://www.museostoricobg.org/mostre/locatelli/ansaldo.htm It deals with the Ansaldo A-1 currently held by the Museo Storico della Cittą di Bergamo (Bergamo Historical Museum). The English section will be made available soon and the drawing section was recently made more easily visible, by means of enlarging the images format. Please consider the possibility to add the page to your WW1 links. Thanks in advance. All the very best, Alberto Casirati. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:42:54 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <000001bf5e92$3a280280$b1b93ecb@charles> I believe adverse >aileron yaw happens as the lowered aileron creates both lift and drag. At >low airspeed the drag is stronger than the lift so the plane yaws opposite >the direction of the the control input rather than rolling into it. Seems >that to counter that tendency the ailerons should deflect less down and more >up. > >sp So with the older aeroplanes you tend to lead a turn with plenty of rudder then follow with the ailerons. Modern types with their high-tech ailerons can just about be flown without using the rudder. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:19:30 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <000101bf5e92$3b66eb20$b1b93ecb@charles> >I've always wondered about the ways some control surfaces are modeled to be >at various angles. >Elevator Droop, that makes sense even more so if the pilot knocked the stick >getting out. >Offset rudder I get too, since it was used in landing and taxying (sp). >But Ailerons being more than marginally off there normal attitude settings >I dont get on wwi aircraft. When you park an older aeroplane the weight of the elevators pulls them down and thus, the stick forward, so you don't have to push the stick out of the way when you climb out. That is the normal at-rest position for (probably) most on topic aircraft. Your average modern tinny has balanced and weighted control surfaces so the elevator will sit in the neutral position. One of the first lessons beaten into me upon climbing out of the cockpit was to tidy up the aeroplane: ailerons in the neutral position, belts secured...The ailerons in many older types will rest where they're left and will not move to a neutral position by themselves. Depending on the rigging of the aeroplane the rudder may be offset when the pedals are in the neutral position. Consider the ot DH82a Tiger Moth: at rest the rudder is deflected to the port side. This is to counter the slipstream effect on the tail at cruise settings. Tiger Moth ailerons are interesting. The down-going aileron moves down until about half way through control deflection and then starts to come back up while the other aileron continues to move up. Tieing the stick back with the harness is not always a good idea. If the aeroplane could be subject to a tail wind you want the elevators down, not up. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:16:20 -0500 From: "David Vosburgh" To: "WWI Mailing List" Subject: Fuel & Water Lines Message-ID: <000b01bf5ea2$50c71340$78d690d0@Pvosburg> Hi All Anyone willing to hazard a guess as to what color the fuel lines should be on a British-built "D" series Hispano-Suiza --- copper? Black japanned? Rubber covered? I'm also wondering about the radiator plumbing, which looks like it might be silver in the photo I have. TIA, DV ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:56:50 PST From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Farman F-40bis rigging support structure colour Message-ID: <20000114155650.70109.qmail@hotmail.com> I am close to completing the Roseplane Farman F-40bis. On the end of the top surface of the upper wing and on the horizontal tail, are these inverted V structures that support the rigging cables. Any ideas about what these were made of and what colurs they should be? As an addendum, I have nothing but praise for Barry Stettler's Farman kit. It goes together without any problems, all the bits match up and it seems to me like a good choice for a first vac, although it does have a lot of rigging. However, the rigging factor wuld be the same regardless of whether it was a vac. Michael ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:59:28 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Farman F-40bis rigging support structure colour Message-ID: <200001141603.LAA25502@pease1.sr.unh.edu> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:00:46 -0500 (EST), Michael Kendix wrote: > As an addendum, I have nothing but praise for Barry Stettler's Farman kit. > It goes together without any problems, all the bits match up and it seems to > me like a good choice for a first vac, although it does have a lot of > rigging. However, the rigging factor wuld be the same regardless of whether > it was a vac. I agree. Some of the best vacs in the world are Roseplane. ;-) Matt Bittner http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:11:42 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Blue Rider question Message-ID: <200001141615.LAA25579@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Anybody that has the Blue Rider Belgium sheet in 1/72nd - are there decals on this for Nieuport 11/16's? If so, which ones, and is anyone willing to scan that portion of the decal sheet for me? TIA! Matt Bittner http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:22:33 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Blue Rider again Message-ID: <200001141626.LAA25657@pease1.sr.unh.edu> I forgot to mention in my earlier post. If anyone has any unused decals Nieuport from the Blue Rider 1/72nd Beligium sheet, I would be willing to purchase those from you. Matt Bittner http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:25:05 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Parachutes? Message-ID: <004d01bf5eab$ead66180$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> James I got a book about the history of the imperial german air service (maybe the author was Imrie, but I can't recall). There's some pictures of pilots and ballon observers wearing parachutes and harnesses in it. I don't know if the text mention some about that in deep but I'll check it in the weekend. One of the designs or manufacturers was "Paulus" and the parachute canopy was tightly packed and secured to the rigging of the "drachen". When the guy jumped, he deployed the parachute by means of a static line and his own weight released the parachute from the ballon rigging. I guess that the observer must always decide to jump before the ballon began to fall... D. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 6:35 PM Subject: Parachutes? > The latest discussion about parachutes has been interesting, but is there any > source of information on German parachutes? Everything I have ever read on > Great War parachutes has concentrated on the lack of British parachutes. I > would like to know who developed the German parachute (an individual? a > company? the German Air Force?), how long it took, how much it weighed, > success rates, was it a seat pack, and stuff like that. > I am also wondering if the British even really had time to develop (or even > copy) a chute between the time they realized the Germans had a working > parachute for aircraft use, and the end of the war. > > Yours, > James D. Gray > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:32:39 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: RE: Parachutes? Message-ID: <200001141636.LAA25781@pease1.sr.unh.edu> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:34:39 -0500 (EST), dfernet0 wrote: > I got a book about the history of the imperial german air service (maybe the > author was Imrie, but I can't recall). There's some pictures of pilots and > ballon observers wearing parachutes and harnesses in it. I don't know if the > text mention some about that in deep but I'll check it in the weekend. > One of the designs or manufacturers was "Paulus" and the parachute canopy > was tightly packed and secured to the rigging of the "drachen". When the guy > jumped, he deployed the parachute by means of a static line and his own > weight released the parachute from the ballon rigging. I guess that the > observer must always decide to jump before the ballon began to fall... If memory serves, Jacobs was saved by a parachute. Matt Bittner http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:34:33 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Parachutes? Message-ID: <007601bf5ead$3d274480$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Udet too. D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 1:39 PM Subject: RE: Parachutes? > On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:34:39 -0500 (EST), dfernet0 wrote: > > > I got a book about the history of the imperial german air service (maybe the > > author was Imrie, but I can't recall). There's some pictures of pilots and > > ballon observers wearing parachutes and harnesses in it. I don't know if the > > text mention some about that in deep but I'll check it in the weekend. > > One of the designs or manufacturers was "Paulus" and the parachute canopy > > was tightly packed and secured to the rigging of the "drachen". When the guy > > jumped, he deployed the parachute by means of a static line and his own > > weight released the parachute from the ballon rigging. I guess that the > > observer must always decide to jump before the ballon began to fall... > > If memory serves, Jacobs was saved by a parachute. > > > Matt Bittner > http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm > http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:48:27 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: <007901bf5eaf$2e400ae0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Tom How could I have forgot Hemingay! Yes, he's in my library too, but I've never read "A farewell to arms". Just saw the movie several years ago. I liked the scene in the mountains. However, I once began to read "The Great Gatsby" but I was unable to go beyond the firsts chapters. :-( D. Not a writer, but Norman Rockwell (I have 2 or 3 books with his illustrations) volunteered to fight in WW1 but was rejected. ----- Original Message ----- From: > I would be very much surprised if no one knew that both Hemingway and F. > Scott Fitzgerald served in the war, but I will mention them for Diego's sake > since he may not have "read the canon." To me, their writing about post-war > experience would not have been as it was had they not done so. :-) > > Tom Cleaver > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2091 **********************