WWI Digest 2089 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Parachutes by "DAVID BURKE" 2) Re: Aileron deflection on models by smperry@mindspring.com 3) Re: Aileron deflection on models by Albatrosdv@aol.com 4) Re: Aileron deflection on models by "Lee Mensinger" 5) Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by Ernest Thomas 6) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by Albatrosdv@aol.com 7) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by "David C. Fletcher" 8) ot flying RE: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by "dfernet0" 9) Re Parachutes (1) by "Sandy Adam" 10) Re Parachutes (2) by "Sandy Adam" 11) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by "Peter Leonard" 12) Aurora Boxes & Bases by "Sandy Adam" 13) Re: Aurora Boxes & Bases by Paul Schwartzkopf 14) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by "DAVID BURKE" 15) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by Albatrosdv@aol.com 16) Revell's 1/28 Spad XIII by "Matt Bailey" 17) Robert W. Donaldson's Spad References? by "Matt Bailey" 18) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by Albatrosdv@aol.com 19) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by Albatrosdv@aol.com 20) unsuspected OT literature by "dfernet0" 21) Re: Revell's 1/28 Spad XIII by CTJDavies@aol.com 22) RE: New photos by "Landon, James D" 23) Re: Kozakov(was Whom?) by "Len Smith" 24) Re: Aurora Boxes & Bases by smperry@mindspring.com 25) attn Ray Boorman by "Bob Pearson" 26) Re: Robert W. Donaldson's Spad References? by "Bob Pearson" 27) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by KarrArt@aol.com 28) Re: unsuspected OT literature by a1b73869@telus.net 29) Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons by "Matthew Bittner" 30) Re: unsuspected OT literature by Albatrosdv@aol.com 31) Whither weather by "Lance Krieg" 32) Re: Whither weather by "Matthew Bittner" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:10:37 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Parachutes Message-ID: <002601bf5d7c$34f284a0$df80aec7@dora9sprynet.com> I believe that this is what I said, put much more coherently by sp. DB >Also bear in ming the same bureaucratic mindset accepted losses of 2 -3000 >men per day as "Normal Wastage". Now I may be wrong, but I get the sense >that the average pilot flying combat without a parachute stood a better >chance of surviving than the average Tommy "going over the top". > >With such insane carnage on the ground being "accepted" , is it any wonder >that a device to save one life was not seen in proper perspective. > >sp > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:32:07 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <000d01bf5d7f$26b3a380$cf0156d1@default> It's aileron > deflection. Many of the models I was looking at have ailerons displayed at > equal deflection. While many WW1 airplanes did have that - certainly the > Jenny I flew in 1979 did! - by at least 1917 I am told they had learned what > we know now: namely to have unequal deflection as a way of dealing with > adverse aileron yaw. Today, when an aileron goes up, it only goes about 1/3 > the deflection of the one that goes down; it was discovered way back in WW1 > that any more upward deflection only adds drag. Added drag on the up aileron, which drops that wing, would tend to yaw the aircraft in the intended direction, (note ot P-61). I believe adverse aileron yaw happens as the lowered aileron creates both lift and drag. At low airspeed the drag is stronger than the lift so the plane yaws opposite the direction of the the control input rather than rolling into it. Seems that to counter that tendency the ailerons should deflect less down and more up. sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:49:21 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <13.2e2bb7.25aeb351@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-12 23:04:04 EST, you write: << There are also aircraft like the early Shorts 184 (?) which have no way to pull the aileron up *at all*, so they adopt a vertically straight down position on the ground with slack control wires. Try explaining THAT to the judges! >> That one boggles my mind every time I see it!!! :-) Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:02:41 -0600 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aileron deflection on models Message-ID: <387D5C71.26DFD22E@wireweb.net> The 1911 Farman had ailerons on the lower wing only and they had the hinges on the bottom of the rear spar. The faces met flush and there was no way they could ever move upward. At rest the ailerons hung fully downward until the machine reached enough speed to take the slack out of the cables. Top speed was about 38-39 MPH. They came down one at a time of course and created pure drag. Lee Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 00-01-12 23:04:04 EST, you write: > > << There are also aircraft like the early Shorts 184 (?) which have no way to > pull the aileron up *at all*, so they adopt a vertically straight down > position on the ground with slack control wires. Try explaining THAT to the > judges! >> > > That one boggles my mind every time I see it!!! :-) > > Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 00:45:22 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <12D83F80.1B3BC943@bellsouth.net> I just went through all my Datafiles, and most(about 15 to 1)pictues show the airplanes parked with little or no deflection in the ailerons. The only pictures that show the a-rons coming anywhere near 'full' deflection are pictures of wrecks. So there! E. nb; a quickie slap together ot 1/72 Pitts to try out some custom ALPS decals I just got from a fellow listee who shall remain nameless unless he tells me he'd rather not. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:22:02 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-13 01:46:41 EST, you write: << I just went through all my Datafiles, and most(about 15 to 1)pictues show the airplanes parked with little or no deflection in the ailerons. The only pictures that show the a-rons coming anywhere near 'full' deflection are pictures of wrecks. So there! E. >> Jeez, what a bunch of defensive people. You'd think I threw a bomb into an Easter parade or something. A comment, prodded by a glance at an unnamed model that I know does have differential throw, merely meant to give all of us a chance to keep track of our work - believe me, I am one who is *always* having to recheck or hide something because it's too late to go back and change it - and what happens? Everybody's going "it ain't me." Well, *of course it isn't*!!! It's a comment, not the attack on Pearl Harbor. And E, don't take it personally that I used your post to reply, it's just the comment I am responding to. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:11:59 -0800 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <387D88CF.B272D815@mars.ark.com> Ernest Thomas wrote: "The only pictures that show the a-rons coming anywhere near 'full' > deflection are pictures of wrecks." While we are on the subject, most aeroplanes without control locks have the stick fall fully forward and the elevators fully down when parked. My own aeroplane doesn't simply because I have a six cable bungee "octopus" (yes, I know, it should be a sexopus) holding the stick and rudder pedals to the airframe. Control locks were not common in WWI (or WWII) and even many modern aircraft (Cessnas excluded) do not have them. While we are on the subject of aileron trivia, I used to earn my living in the ("ot" alert!) Canadair Argus. This aircraft had "free-floating controls" and the main surfaces were not linked to the yoke and rudder but were moved my servo tabs. When the ailerons were locked, they were both in the full up position (the rudder and elevators were neutral), so high winds would tend to push the aeroplane down, not blow it away. An airline pilot called up in a panic when taxiing out behind an Argus that "The aircraft in front has a control problem - both his ailerons are up!", whereupon the pilot selected the gust locks off and both ailerons dropped to the full down position, accompanied by the transmission, "Is that better?". Dave Fletcher -- Visit us at our Home Page: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:44:36 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: ot flying RE: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <007c01bf5db3$2fbb5ac0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> ot warning! In gliders, where the long wings and light materials are easily caught by moderate breezes (I guees that early planes also had this issue), we used to lock controls with the harness buckles. Depending on wich buckle you used (and the wing lying on the floor) you had right or left aileron fully deflected and elevator up. Gliders must be parked diagonally of the wind direction, tail first into wind. Locking the controls is done principally to avoid the wind to "flopping" the controls repeatedly and damage therefore the cables and linking sistems. If higher winds make the airframe quiver or risk uncontrolled movement, all the planes must be tied or kept indoors. The pilot who paked his glider in the wrong way must pay a bottle of beer to the landing strip controller (who changed everyday amongst pilots, so everybody eventually got his bottle of beer). D. "Glider pilots do it quietly" ----- Original Message ----- From: David C. Fletcher > While we are on the subject, most aeroplanes without control locks have > the stick fall fully forward and the elevators fully down when parked. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:22:11 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Re Parachutes (1) Message-ID: <002901bf5db5$9aa60ae0$14e8b094@sandyada> > Also bear in ming the same bureaucratic mindset accepted losses of 2 -3000 > men per day as "Normal Wastage". Absolutely, Steve. Trenchard's directive from Henderson and the Air Board was to use the RFC as an adjunct to the ground war. The primary tasks were reconnaissance, artillery spotting, bombing and contact patrols. Trenchard stated many times that he would always risk the lives of small numbers of RFC crew to try to alleviate the collossal loss of life on the ground. Given that parachute experiments might eventually save one or two airmen a week (most likely to be taken prisoner), on a battlefield where thousands were dying every day, it is not too difficult to see why 'chutes had such a low priority in the bigger picture. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:38:35 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Re Parachutes (2) Message-ID: <002a01bf5db5$9ba04960$14e8b094@sandyada> In considering why the RFC did not have parachutes, consider also why the Germans did. Apart from the high altitude reconnaissance patrols and the night bombing operations, most of the LSK's Western Front operations were performed either on their own side of the lines or very near to them. Thus a german pilot baling out would have a very high probability of landing in friendly territory. The germans made maximum use of their aviators in many ways including for publicity purposes. It made a great deal of sense to use parachutes for such valuable assets when a) you were fighting over home ground, b) you could publicise how well you cared for your men, c) you could give a mental advantage to the aviators themselves and d) you could keep recycling your (limited) skilled and experienced resources. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:08:35 GMT From: "Peter Leonard" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <20000113140835.10654.qmail@hotmail.com> Ernest gets ten out of ten for observation. Look at photos of the real thing, those of you who are able look at the real real thing, and such deflection as is is minimal. Ailerons are balanced, one way or another and except for those examples already noted, and the natural state at rest is neutral. Just a tad though makes for a more lifelike model. Peter L ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ernest Thomas Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:49:27 -0500 (EST) I just went through all my Datafiles, and most(about 15 to 1)pictues show the airplanes parked with little or no deflection in the ailerons. The only pictures that show the a-rons coming anywhere near 'full' deflection are pictures of wrecks. So there! E. nb; a quickie slap together ot 1/72 Pitts to try out some custom ALPS decals I just got from a fellow listee who shall remain nameless unless he tells me he'd rather not. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:06:10 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Aurora Boxes & Bases Message-ID: <008b01bf5dd7$d7985620$14e8b094@sandyada> As part of a project for a local museum, I am trying to put together a display of all the old Aurora WWI kits built up in front of their boxes. I have got most of them now but some of the boxes are a bit tatty. Also I can use a painted Smer or Glencoe kit in front of an Aurora box for some of them. However I lack some of the bases, figures and name badges. I have a list of what I need but baulk at paying ebay prices (especially having been bitten just recently when I got what I thought was a half decent Pfalz but then found the water damaged box literally fell to powder when I tried to open it.) If anybody can help please let me know off list. The ones I really need boxes and bases etc for are the Pfalz, Eindecker, Razor, Tripehound and the DH10 and Gotha. I can offer to buy or swap. I've got duplicates of quite a few OT books - including some pretty rare ones, and kits, if anyone can help. Thanks Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:31:56 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Schwartzkopf To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aurora Boxes & Bases Message-ID: <20000113153156.3964.qmail@web3105.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, A friend of mine has been resin casting some of the stands (small base w/chocks) for the Aurora kits. Let me know what you are looking for, and I will try to find out if he has them or not. I know he doesn't have all the bases from every kit, but I do not know which ones he does have. He may even be able to do the name badges, but I can't say this for certain. Paul --- Sandy Adam wrote: > As part of a project for a local museum, I am trying > to put together a > display of all the old Aurora WWI kits built up in > front of their boxes. I > have got most of them now but some of the boxes are > a bit tatty. Also I can > use a painted Smer or Glencoe kit in front of an > Aurora box for some of > them. > However I lack some of the bases, figures and name > badges. > I have a list of what I need but baulk at pay __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:45:13 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <003201bf5ddd$cab55420$6386aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Tom Cleaver Wrote: >You'd think I threw a bomb into an >Easter parade or something. I knew that you had to have other hobbies! ;) DB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:23:09 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-13 03:11:59 EST, you write: << An airline pilot called up in a panic when taxiing out behind an Argus that "The aircraft in front has a control problem - both his ailerons are up!", whereupon the pilot selected the gust locks off and both ailerons dropped to the full down position, accompanied by the transmission, "Is that better?". >> It soitanly is! Getting something funny out of all this is worth it! Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:24:56 -0800 From: "Matt Bailey" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Revell's 1/28 Spad XIII Message-ID: Hello - I am going to take the plunge and build Revell's 1/28 Spad XIII. Are there any major inaccuracies of the kit that I need to be aware of? I am planning on using Copper States's detail sets for the kit. Thanks, Matt Bailey --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:29:09 -0800 From: "Matt Bailey" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Robert W. Donaldson's Spad References? Message-ID: Hello- I am interested in modeling Robert W. Donaldson's checkerboard Spad XIII. The only picture I've been able to find is in Squadron's 'Spad in Action' book. Does anyone know if there are any photos or references of the top and the bottom of this aircraft? Thanks, Matt Bailey --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:30:38 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-13 09:10:54 EST, you write: << Just a tad though makes for a more lifelike model. >> Exactly! I am always arguing with people who do "too much" of anything to their airplanes, from too much stylization of the paint scheme to where it is completely inaccurate-looking, to enough soot and grime and etc. that no sane pilot would get in the thing. I have really had this argument with some British USN Golden Age builders, who persist in doing USN airplanes of the 30s with any weathering on them at all - they don't get it when I tell them the CPO of the squadron would have the head of the Plane Captain who allowed that to happen. "Less is more" should be tatooed on modelers' frontal lobes. Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:37:47 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <50.7ffb32.25af595b@aol.com> In a message dated 00-01-13 10:57:20 EST, DB writes: << I knew that you had to have other hobbies! >> How little you know, grasshopper. :-) Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:00:10 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: "WW1 modeling Mail List" Subject: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: <011b01bf5de7$a6e1aee0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Hi Yesterday after a conversation, I browsed my library shelves in search of some books of one of my favourite authors, Saki. He never wrote about the Great War, but he enlisted and was killed in november 1916 by a sniper, as the biographical note said. During the search I stumbled with another good friend, J.R.R. Tolkien. I took "The Hobbit" and read in the bio that he fought -and happily for us, survived- WW1. He neither wrote about his war, but who can't deny that the tunnels inhabited by Gollum weren't closely related to the muddy trenches? I kept looking, and found Erich Remarque and Andreas Latzko and a teenager who fell deeply in love with planes and flying during WW1: Antoine de Saint Exupery. I've never read "biggles" nor many of the books that you mention in your posts. But how many good writers have experienced WW1 and we don't suspect it? Can you mention a few others? D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:21:36 EST From: CTJDavies@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Revell's 1/28 Spad XIII Message-ID: There was a nice article I found (but have lost again since) about detailing a Hispano engine, although it was 1/48th scale it would surely help in doing the Spad. Maybe someone around still has the link. I's love to have it, as my Spad remains in the closet until this link shows up again. Apart from this I think it is pretty accurate, although the nose looks a little off to me, but I could be wrong, as no one else has ever mentioned this. Ray Rimell did some sort of a Revell Spad Special in an older Windsock a few years ago with details for ply wing extensions to square of the tips. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:22:34 -0700 From: "Landon, James D" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27Unicalce_Amministrazione_Alm=E8=27?= Cc: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: New photos Message-ID: <98B98E951BA0D1119A590000F8045A4704A4D32E@emss02m05.ems.lmco.com> Hi Alberto, Thank you for responding so kindly. I am happy to hear that you will provide more photos of the Nie 11. And thank you for calling my photos inspiring. That is wonderful to hear from an expert like you. <> Do it, do it, do it!! I have often thought that people who build 1/72 and 1/48 models should try a larger scale at least once. Because of your super-advanced skills at modeling details in tiny scales, you would be able to do amazing things on a larger scale ... far far better than me. In fact you could scratch build a complete miniature replica of the real plane, complete with every single bracket, turnbuckle, bolt, rivet, pulley, control cable, spark plug, etc. and leave it without covering like the 1/16 Albatros. That's one of my fantasies. I saw a Jenny skeleton done that way at Denver Intl Airport, roughly 24" wingspan IIRC. And I've long admired the 1/16 Albatros skeleton. I have the Guillows SE5a on my shelf too, along with the Camel and the Nie 11. But I am tempted to scratch build the balsa structure from blueprints to match the real plane better. I would have done that with the Tommy if I had known then what I know now. But I want to try at least one small plastic model first (the 1/32 HobbyCraft Camel) so that I can see if I like building small plastic vs larger balsa type. I might also try to build the 1/72 vac that Barry Stettler sold me (Hanriot HD3). Thanks again, Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Unicalce Amministrazione Almè [SMTP:calcegh2@spm.it] > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 2:39 AM > To: Jim Landon > Subject: Re: New photos > > Dear Jim, > thanks for your warm words. I do hope I will be soon able to send Allan > some new photos showing details of the Toko Bébé. Your new photos are > inspiring, as always: they could even tempt me to have a try at that old > Guillow SE5 (the only balsa kit in my modest collection). Well done ! > All the very best, > Alberto Casirati. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:35:34 -0000 From: "Len Smith" To: Subject: Re: Kozakov(was Whom?) Message-ID: <001301bf5dec$c321cae0$08847ed4@mesh> Greetings, Sorry to spoil all of the fun, but it wasn't quite like that, at least according to the FMP Russian book. snip >In detail, the concept first required the unreeling of a small sea anchor >while in flight. Next, mobile blocks packed with gun cotton were released >to the cable's end. Finally, after diving down onto an opponent's aircraft >and snaring the machine with the anchor, the gun cotton would explode and >destroy the enemy machine. Unfortunately It didn't work quite like that in the combat, so Kozakov >decided to strike across the upper surface of the Albatros with the >undercarriage of my plane. What a man! He survived the resulting crash landing, and carried on flying until August 1919 when he was killed in a crash whilst flying a Sopwith Snipe. So, no early deck landing practice but still an inventive, very determined and extremely brave man. Regards Len. lensmith@clara.net http://home.clara.net/lensmith ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Whom? > On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 03:23:11 -0500 (EST), Witold Kozakiewicz > wrote: > > > 1. A. Kozakov - guy who "armed" his Morane G and "shot" down enemy plane > > with anchor is really desperate. BTW just before Xmas I bought model of > > Morane G, Maquette 1/48 and of course it will be Kozakov's, I only have > > to scratchbuild anchor and paint serial number and national markings. > > I find this totally amazing. Seriously. This took a bit of > genius to come up with this arrangement. I bet his fellow pilots > were laughing at him as he took off, then silent when he arrived, > bits and pieces hanging from his anchor. I too would like to > build this pilot's plane. > > > Matt Bittner > http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook > http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:31:49 -0500 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Aurora Boxes & Bases Message-ID: <002701bf5ded$447035a0$0b0a56d1@default> Sandy I can help you on the Pfalz, Gotha and DH-10. I have bases for those. Some crew too. Trade for reference material. I'll dig out what I have and send you a complete list tonight. ttyl sp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Adam" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Aurora Boxes & Bases > As part of a project for a local museum, I am trying to put together a > display of all the old Aurora WWI kits built up in front of their boxes. I > have got most of them now but some of the boxes are a bit tatty. Also I can > use a painted Smer or Glencoe kit in front of an Aurora box for some of > them. > However I lack some of the bases, figures and name badges. > I have a list of what I need but baulk at paying ebay prices (especially > having been bitten just recently when I got what I thought was a half decent > Pfalz but then found the water damaged box literally fell to powder when I > tried to open it.) If anybody can help please let me know off list. > The ones I really need boxes and bases etc for are the Pfalz, Eindecker, > Razor, Tripehound and the DH10 and Gotha. > I can offer to buy or swap. I've got duplicates of quite a few OT books - > including some pretty rare ones, and kits, if anyone can help. > Thanks > Sandy > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:51:23 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: ww1 mailing list Subject: attn Ray Boorman Message-ID: <200001131824.KAA27794@mail.rapidnet.net> Ray, Messages to both your telus and sympatico addresses came back with fatal errors, try contacting me again offlist and I will try to send my reply to your message yesterday once again. Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:01:04 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Robert W. Donaldson's Spad References? Message-ID: <200001131824.KAA27812@mail.rapidnet.net> A better photo of it is in the Aircam SPAD SVII-SXIII SCOUTS, that was what I based my profile of it on. Bob ---------- >From: "Matt Bailey" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Robert W. Donaldson's Spad References? >Date: Thu, 13 Jan, 2000, 8:33 AM > > Hello- > > I am interested in modeling Robert W. Donaldson's checkerboard Spad XIII. > The only picture I've been able to find is in Squadron's 'Spad in Action' > book. Does anyone know if there are any photos or references of the top > and the bottom of this aircraft? > > Thanks, > > Matt Bailey > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:13:17 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: In a message dated 1/13/00 12:12:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, dcf@mars.ark.com writes: << Control locks were not common in WWI (or WWII) and even many modern aircraft (Cessnas excluded) do not have them >> off-topic, but control locks were what caused the Boeing299 (let's just call it the first B-17) to crash...they were so rare in the mid-30s that the pilot forgot to disengage them. Also- let's not forget another early plane that had those drooping ailerons- the Bristol Boxkite....it looks so damn strange sitting on the ground with all this junk hanging down. RK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:18:41 PST From: a1b73869@telus.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: <387e1701.24c4.0@telus.net> Since I am an unabashed Lord of the Rings fan, I searched out JRR Tolkiens Authorised Biography years ago. Whilst many people thought Lord of the Rings was inspired by the fear of the coming Second World War. Tolkien always maintained it wasnt. However he did state that many parts of the book took his memories (nightmares more like) of his days in the trenches. He was a serving officer, from reading between the lines not only did his time in the trenches of the western front shatter his health, but they also left him with mental scars that he probably never got over. One passage in Lord of the Rings has Gollum leading Frodo through a Marsh, where years before a great battle had been fought. The bodies are still just below the surface and they haunt whoever passes. When I first read Lord of the Rings I skimmed through that section since its so depressing, but when you know where his inspiration came from you read it with a whole new outlook.... Ray ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:18:34 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Just as I suspected, was;ailerons Message-ID: <200001131822.NAA20963@pease1.sr.unh.edu> On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:19:54 -0500 (EST), KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > Also- let's not forget another early plane that had those drooping ailerons- > the Bristol Boxkite....it looks so damn strange sitting on the ground with > all this junk hanging down. And the Otto "Doppeldeckers". In fact, that's how I finished my model. Matt Bittner http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:23:07 EST From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: unsuspected OT literature Message-ID: In a message dated 00-01-13 12:06:46 EST, you write: << I've never read "biggles" nor many of the books that you mention in your posts. But how many good writers have experienced WW1 and we don't suspect it? Can you mention a few others? >> James Norman Hall, who served in the Lafayette Escadrille, wrote "Mutiny on the Bounty." He did also write about his Lafayette Escadrille experiences, but the other book is better-known. I would be very much surprised if no one knew that both Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald served in the war, but I will mention them for Diego's sake since he may not have "read the canon." To me, their writing about post-war experience would not have been as it was had they not done so. :-) Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:05:48 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Whither weather Message-ID: Tom Cleaver comments on weathering and notes: "Less is more" should be tatooed on modelers' frontal lobes. While I agree with this sentiment, it cannot be denied that many OT aircraft, particularly rotary-engined ones, were thoroughly besmirched and sometimes so oil-saturated that the factory finishes were removed by the solvent effect. Of course, depicting this in miniature is something of a challenge... And I may be on the defensive, as I just applied a lot more weathering than is my wont to a recently-completed Nieuport 17. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:08:59 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Whither weather Message-ID: <200001132013.PAA21472@pease1.sr.unh.edu> On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:10:14 -0500 (EST), Lance Krieg wrote: > And I may be on the defensive, as I just applied a lot more weathering than is my wont to a recently-completed Nieuport 17. Pictures? Matt Bittner http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2089 **********************