WWI Digest 1932 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Revell's 1/28 Spad 13 by ERIC HIGHT 2) Re: Red by "PETER LEONARD" 3) Artur Taube by "PETER LEONARD" 4) Re: another step in the general direction to hell by "Andy Kemp" 5) Re: Eduard Contact? by "Lubos Vinar" 6) RE: 1-1/2 Strutter by Shane Weier 7) Baron Red by BEN8800@aol.com 8) Re: Baron Red by smperry@mindspring.com 9) Re: Baron Red by "Lee J Mensinger" 10) Re: Baron Red by "PETER LEONARD" 11) RE: Baron Red by Shane Weier 12) hello by "PETER LEONARD" 13) Re: hello by "Lee J Mensinger" 14) Re: Red by Ernest Thomas 15) another RED question by Ernest Thomas 16) Re: another RED question by "PETER LEONARD" 17) RE: Baron Red by "cameron rile" 18) Re: another RED question by Ernest Thomas 19) Re: 1 1/2 Strutter help! by "PETER LEONARD" 20) Re:Jasta 4 unit markings by skarver@banet.net 21) Air Museum Report - OT and ot by Albatrosdv@aol.com 22) Re: another RED question by "Michael S. Alvarado" 23) Re: Jasta 4 unit markings by "Michael S. Alvarado" 24) UV vs Yellow by smperry@mindspring.com 25) RE: UV vs Yellow by "dfernet0" 26) Martinsyde S.1 update by Dennis Ugulano 27) Richtophen expert by Dale Beamish <31241054@3web.net> 28) Re: Jasta 4 unit markings by skarver@banet.net 29) RE: Richtophen expert by "John C Glaser" 30) Re: another RED question by skarver@banet.net 31) Re: Richtophen expert by Dale Beamish <31241054@3web.net> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:44:16 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Revell's 1/28 Spad 13 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991021094416.006f6134@pop.amug.org> ctjdavies, we carry details, guns, markings etc. for the 1/28 revell kits. thanks eric copper state models At 11:23 AM 10/21/99 -0400, you wrote: >just picked it up at the local hobby shop for $8.00 (DM24,00) and was >wondering if any after market items are available - the decals in the box are >a little dull. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:33:22 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Red Message-ID: <19991021173323.84466.qmail@hotmail.com> Shall I go first chaps? Okay. here goes I don't know how many listees have examined a piece of the actual fabric. but I have. It was from the upper surface of one of the ailerons but had scraps of lower surface fabric also attached to it. Close up it was a horrible dirty brownish red through which the camouflage streaks were clearly visible. Soon afterwards I conducted a little experiment based on what I had learned. I fixed an 18" square of fabric to frame (a modern cotton mix rather than linen, but the colour was right) and doped and camouflaged it according to what is known of Fokker practice. A mix of oil based red paint and cellulose dope was then applied in close approximation to what I had seen at the RAF Museum. To the point (yes, there is one). From close up it was close to the dingy reddish brown I was trying for, but from a range of 100 metres it was somehow bright scarlet. As a result I now belong to the bright red school of thought. My own attempt at the DML Dr1 as Fok DrI 152/17 is at http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com/dr1.html The whole model was first camouflaged then a single coat of the basic Humbrol gloss red applied. Pretty long winded and I'm sure you just wanted the correct FS number, but there isn't one :¬) hth Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:09:14 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Artur Taube Message-ID: <19991021180915.12628.qmail@hotmail.com> Hannants are listing the Artur (Flashback) Taube as a new arrival at £16 (£14 overseas). It's going to be an expensive nationals...again :¬) Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:42:44 +0100 From: "Andy Kemp" To: Subject: Re: another step in the general direction to hell Message-ID: <015401bf1bf5$8ee56900$03000004@675> Go on - be a devil! Try www.crossandcockade.com ... Andy K ----- Original Message ----- From: dfernet0 To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: 20 October 1999 18:19 Subject: another step in the general direction to hell > Hi list > Yesterday I received the first issue of Windsock magazine that I ever > actually saw, and I must say that I'm gratefully impressed by this > publication, as much as I did few years back when reading FSM I decided to > return to the modelling hobby. I knew from this list the quality of this > publication and even as many of you said that the contents are less > interesting than in the past I found this current issue great. > Thanks fellows, now that I had tought that I was comfortably installed I > found myself subscribing to another magazine. I wonder what would happen if > I see any issue of C&C or WW1 Aero... yep, I know I won't resist those, > neither. :-( > D. > PS: Maybe I'll buy some back issues and look what was about. Do you have any > suggestions of wich issue is recommended? > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:49:56 +0200 From: "Lubos Vinar" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Eduard Contact? Message-ID: <199910212050.QAA18044@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Anyhow, I would appreciate an email address since I would rather > not call them. department@eduard.cz Lubos Vinar vinar@atlas.cz http://w3.inshop.cz/vamp - VAMP - mail order service http://fly.to/vinar - Personal homepage ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:28:00 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: 1-1/2 Strutter Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475C71@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Dave says > No Shane, it stands for 'Pigmented Cellulose' - I.E. 'Colored Dope'. He's right you know. I plead 1am insanity Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:44:03 EDT From: BEN8800@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Baron Red Message-ID: <0.3ac23f47.2540f133@aol.com> What's this crap about "now you've done it" reply to my question on Baron red? Did I open a sore? If so, so be it. I appreciate responses no matter how controversial they are. I can weed thru it an make my own decision. So, please respond. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:01:51 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Baron Red Message-ID: <004801bf1c18$44154260$bd0356d1@default> >What's this crap about "now you've done it" reply to my question on Baron >red? Did I open a sore? If so, so be it. I appreciate responses no matter >how controversial they are. I can weed thru it an make my own decision. So, >please respond. > >Ben I'd go with a bit muddier than scarlet myself. A little different shade is on Sandy Adam's beautiful crashed 425/17: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/Images/Adam/Dr1.jpg Most seem to think that it wasn't bright shiny fire engine, Radio Flyer wagon RED, so how ever you choose to represent the off bright red hue makes your guess as good as anyone elses. sp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:03:13 -0500 From: "Lee J Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Baron Red Message-ID: <380F9BB1.C55BB493@wireweb.net> Someone may have been afraid you awakened Sandy Adam. I have never seen the actual, so called red of the Red Barons plane. But I have seen some othr fabric pieces and it more closely resembled a "dry blood" color. There has been controversy since day one about it and that doesn't help much. many people are inclined to do what they think is best. Lee BEN8800@aol.com wrote: > What's this crap about "now you've done it" reply to my question on Baron > red? Did I open a sore? If so, so be it. I appreciate responses no matter > how controversial they are. I can weed thru it an make my own decision. So, > please respond. > > Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:20:30 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Baron Red Message-ID: <19991021232030.28299.qmail@hotmail.com> Ben, I did respond, but somehow it never showed up on the list. Appologgies in advance if iy shows up twice. Some years ago I had the oportunity to examine a piece of fabric from Fok Dr1 425/17. It was a small portion from the upper surface of an aileron and had fragments of lower surface fabric attached. The camouflage streaks were clearly visible through the thin red dope and the overall effect was a dirty brownish red. Based on what I had seen I carried out an experiment with an 18 inch square of fabric pinned to a frame (it was a modern cotton blend rather than linen, but the colour was about right). I first doped this panel and then camouflaged it according to what is known of Fokker practice, finishing off with a coat of varnish. Finaly I painted the square red with a mix of red oil based paint and celulose dope in an approximation of the museum sample. To the point (yes, there is a point). My experimental panel now looked very like the fragment I had examined at Hendon, except it was bigger, with the same generaly grubby appearance, but at a range of 100 metres it looked quite different. Then the effect was a bright orange red which immediately brought to mind all those "scarlet triplanes" so beloved of pulp fiction writers. If it's an FS number you want Brad I can't help you, I don't beleive anyone can, but you can put me down in the bright red camp, at least for modelling purposes. If you're interested my own attempt at Fok DrI 152/17 can be found at http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com/dr1.html. A single coat of the basic Humbrol gloss red is brushed onto a camouflaged surface so that the streaks show through. IMO that's the way it should be. HTH Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:45:25 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Baron Red Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475C76@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Ben, > What's this crap about "now you've done it" reply to my > question on Baron red? Did I open a sore? No need to be ticked off - he was joking. The issue is one which *does* start big arguments though, so a bit of diplomacy is needed on all sides ! FWIW this is one issue I can be entirely unbiased about because I don't give a damn about and won't ever bother to model MvR's aircraft so i don't need to "know". All I can say is that there is a photo of part of one of the interplane struts in Charles Harts photos on the web site which looks almost precisely the way I remember it in real life. Charles took the pics in about '96 and I saw the strut (and other bits and pieces) in '97 so you have to take 80 years of deterioration, or yellowing, or darkeninbg, or fading, or whatever changes in whatever unknowable direction might have affected the surviving bits. I'd have *guessed* that the colour would be less than the brightest red -if only because most of the really red pigments in use now are artificial and postdate WW1, but it could have been anything from a fairly bright scarlet to a much duller blood red tone and the last man (actually the *only* man) I met who ever saw MvR or his plane died last year. Make it how you like, no-one can truly prove different ! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:48:34 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: hello Message-ID: <19991022014834.7012.qmail@hotmail.com> testing 123 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:05:53 -0500 From: "Lee J Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, peter_leonard@hotmail.com Subject: Re: hello Message-ID: <380FC681.F1B468EC@wireweb.net> Hi there yourself. If you are looking for someone on the list. It worked. PETER LEONARD wrote: > testing 123 > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:07:49 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Red Message-ID: <380FC6F4.CCE2E5C4@bellsouth.net> BEN8800@aol.com wrote: > What is a good model paint match (straight out of bottle or mix formula) for > the Baron's aircraft red? Ben, Pretty much whatever color you prefer. Fernando Lamas sent me a link once to several examples of 425/17 fabric samples. The tones ranged from the dried blood dark brown to an almost bright orange. My personal choice is &$@)#&% red. Hth... E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:41:16 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: another RED question Message-ID: <380FCECB.D51A5E85@bellsouth.net> Hi all, Was just sitting around thinking about future projects and came up with a question. Would Udet's D-VII have had the loz showing through the red? E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:52:40 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: another RED question Message-ID: <19991022025240.31228.qmail@hotmail.com> Ernest >>Was just sitting around thinking about future projects and came up with a >>question. Would Udet's D-VII have had the loz showing through the red?<< Ernest, Udet's candy striper would most likely have had a streaky fuselage. Can anyone confirm this was the same machine previously flown by Goering and originally prepared for LvR? If so the pictures of Goering show the aircraft with solid fuselage colours. Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 99 22:56:46 +0400 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Baron Red Message-ID: <1164D62B9C783D1118A800807C90AA21@cameron.prontomail.com> Shane, >to a much duller blood red tone and the last man (actually the *only* man) I >met who ever saw MvR or his plane died last year. You met Harold Edwards? Was it an interview or just a friendly chat? cam ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:03:46 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: another RED question Message-ID: <380FD411.BCEC30A5@bellsouth.net> PETER LEONARD wrote: > Ernest > Ernest, Udet's candy striper would most likely have had a streaky fuselage. Ok, so would the streakies have shown through the red? E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:35:52 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1 1/2 Strutter help! Message-ID: <19991022043553.77519.qmail@hotmail.com> Sandy, it's just like waiting for Christmas isn't it? What stand do you call home? Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:23:02 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: "William H. Shuey" Subject: Re:Jasta 4 unit markings Message-ID: <380FE6A6.C6BCC680@banet.net> Good evening, again, Bill-- 1. Thanks for pointing out the verbiage in "Flying Circus." 2. Finally found a reproduction of a putative Jasta 4 machine in "Fokker V5/Dr.I," by Wolfgang Schuster & Achim Sven Engels (Schiffer, nd), p. 34, top plate. The caption to this front right three-quarter view reads, "This triplane probably belonged to Jasta 4.: How's that for confidence? In any event, what one sees are light-colored cowling and wheel covers. Possibly white but lighter than the underside blue, which in my view is too light for a "sky blue." Could one believe in a 'silbergrau'? Would such have been available in the field? Do you know whether the S/S In Action, the Nowarra (?) Schiffer on the triplane, or the Imrie on the type have other Jasta 4 birds pictured? Regards, Stefen William H. Shuey wrote: > skarver@banet.net wrote: > > > > Good evening, Bill-- > > Thanks for the reply. > > I have the "Flying Circus" reference, too. So I am more interested in your > > Allied intel summary (which I don't remember seeing in the Wyngarden, or did I > > miss something?). It was referenced in the paragraph on Triplanes-page 4- righthand column, about a > third of the way down. > > > By 'sky blue' are we really talking about Fokker turquoise? Still given that > > the unit seems to have had black and white as their colors both before and > > after the triplanes, why would they have changed to blue for the Dr.I's? Is > > 'off-white' really just a dirty white? White, at least, would seem to make > > sense. > > Regards, > > Stefen > > As I said, since they only had tri-planes for less than 2 months, not much was > recorded. We'll probably never know now-too many years gone by. > > Bill Shuey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:51:57 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Air Museum Report - OT and ot Message-ID: <0.2be6ff6.2541476d@aol.com> For about 12 years, I have been hearing about Yanks Air Museum at Chino, but never till today did I happen to get out to the field on a weekday with the sole intent being to play hookey from life; generally if I am there on a weekday, I am too busy checking cameras, climbing in the photo plane, checking gear, etc., for an air-to-air mission - and afterwards too "up" from the flight - to wander around to a museum where the airplanes don't fly. Yanks is the polar opposite of Planes of Fame, who restore their planes to fly them; Yanks restores the airplane to original (flight) condition, and maintain it as such, but do not fly them, in order to preserve them. There's a good argument for both. As someone who has been involved in antique and warbird restoration, this place was an eye-opener. The quality of their work is absolutely the best I have ever seen anywhere. Mechanically the airplane is returned to absolutely original condition; as to markings, camouflage, etc., these are done correctly, with flat paints that are the correct color. The finished result is truly incredible and any modeler who can make the visit here should come just to see how the objects of desire *really* looked. For me, going in the restoration hangar was even more fun. They are mere weeks away from the completion of a P-39N that was sitting there in primer, ready to have its armament installed. To one side of the hangar was a Grumman TBF-1C minus the outer wings, and to the other side was an SB2C-3 Helldiver - identifiable due to its "solid" dive flaps - minus its tail assembly, which was being worked on elsewhere; both are the only ones of their types left in existence. There were two beautiful Golden Age civil aircraft at the front of the hangar, minus their fabric covering. Looking at the two Navy planes as examples of what they start with, the quality of the workmanship on the nearly-complete restorations was such as to raise them to works of art. Among the one-and-onlys to be seen here are: A C-series Staggerwing; Curtiss O-52 "Owl;" Cessna TA-7, the very first highwing design from Clyde Cessna, 1928; ; P-63C Kingcobra; and P-47M Thunderbolt. There were also one N3N minus fabric and one complete, a superb P-40E Warhawk, and a P-51A Mustang. As to OT: they have a Curtiss Jenny that has to be seen to be believed: absolutely stunning, with no fabric on the airframe but otherwise complete. an education in itself of how OT airplanes were made, any liost member could spend a day staring at it. The place is open 0900-1200/1300-1530 Mon-Fri, Saturdays by appointment. It's at the northwest end of Chino airport - look for the two F-14s outside the hangar. "I shall return." Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:46:01 -0400 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: another RED question Message-ID: <380FEC08.5528663F@bellatlantic.net> Red was usually applied in thin coats due to the scarcity of suitable red pigment and to reduce the total weight of the extra decoration. My guess is that the red would look uneven reflecting the dark olive/CDL streaking underneath. If you have the Albatros Publications/Greg Van Wyngarten Richtofen's Flying Circus Datafile Special that is the way Udet's machine is presented on the cover. That's the way I'm going to do mine when I get around to (SWIMBO wants me to do that one ASAP. Go figure). Alvie Ernest Thomas wrote: > PETER LEONARD wrote: > > > Ernest > > Ernest, Udet's candy striper would most likely have had a streaky fuselage. > > Ok, so would the streakies have shown through the red? > E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:49:04 -0400 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Jasta 4 unit markings Message-ID: <380FECC0.7C01DA58@bellatlantic.net> Look in the Albatros Publications/Greg Van Wyngarten Datafile special on the Colors of the Richtofen Flying Circus, there are several Jasta 4 Fokker Dr.I schemes in there. Alvie skarver@banet.net wrote: > Good evening, again, Bill-- > 1. Thanks for pointing out the verbiage in "Flying Circus." > 2. Finally found a reproduction of a putative Jasta 4 machine in "Fokker V5/Dr.I," by Wolfgang Schuster & > Achim Sven Engels (Schiffer, nd), p. 34, top plate. The caption to this front right three-quarter view > reads, "This triplane probably belonged to Jasta 4.: How's that for confidence? > In any event, what one sees are light-colored cowling and wheel covers. Possibly white but lighter than the > underside blue, which in my view is too light for a "sky blue." Could one believe in a 'silbergrau'? Would > such have been available in the field? > Do you know whether the S/S In Action, the Nowarra (?) Schiffer on the triplane, or the Imrie on the type > have other Jasta 4 birds pictured? > Regards, > Stefen > > William H. Shuey wrote: > > > skarver@banet.net wrote: > > > > > > Good evening, Bill-- > > > Thanks for the reply. > > > I have the "Flying Circus" reference, too. So I am more interested in your > > > Allied intel summary (which I don't remember seeing in the Wyngarden, or did I > > > miss something?). It was referenced in the paragraph on Triplanes-page 4- righthand column, about a > > third of the way down. > > > > > By 'sky blue' are we really talking about Fokker turquoise? Still given that > > > the unit seems to have had black and white as their colors both before and > > > after the triplanes, why would they have changed to blue for the Dr.I's? Is > > > 'off-white' really just a dirty white? White, at least, would seem to make > > > sense. > > > Regards, > > > Stefen > > > As I said, since they only had tri-planes for less than 2 months, not much was > > recorded. We'll probably never know now-too many years gone by. > > > > Bill Shuey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:27:49 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: "Multiple recipients of list" Subject: UV vs Yellow Message-ID: <004c01bf1c78$19871680$030356d1@default> I have had yellowed decals restored by placing them in a clear plastic bag taped to a window that gets direct sun. Has any brave soul ever attempted to cure yellowed lacquer on a model by the same method? Sounds like it might work, but also sounds fraught with opportunity to ruin a model too. Any direct experience anyone? TIA sp E-mail smperry@mindspring.com Web Site http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/PWWIP.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:15:35 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: UV vs Yellow Message-ID: <005401bf1c7e$c3882600$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Steve I don't know about the effect on the varnish, but I once forgot a semi rigged AlbDV on the workbench where the sun eventually caught it. Not the dramatic results of John Huggings resin model but all the rigging popped loose and the stretched sprue got curly. D. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:26 AM Subject: UV vs Yellow > I have had yellowed decals restored by placing them in a clear plastic bag > taped to a window that gets direct sun. > > Has any brave soul ever attempted to cure yellowed lacquer on a model by the > same method? > > Sounds like it might work, but also sounds fraught with opportunity to ruin > a model too. Any direct experience anyone? > > TIA > sp > > E-mail smperry@mindspring.com > Web Site http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/PWWIP.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:30:05 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Martinsyde S.1 update Message-ID: <199910220830_MC2-8A0D-E976@compuserve.com> Everyone, First, thanks for the incredible about of information and help that poured in on the S.1. I went from knowing almost nothing of the plane to having a fair idea of what I'm doing. Here is what is going to take place. I will do 2449 as it came over from England. CDL, wood veneer and metal cowling. There will be 2449 and a Union Jack on the tail and roundels under the lower wing. The landing gear will be the four wheel set up and a machine gun on the top wing. The wood veneer went on this morning. I found I had 3 sheets of the Miekraft veneer so I thought I would give it a try. Very nice product. It only took me 10 years to give it a try. If any of you are toying with the idea of a veneer, try it. I think you will like the results and it doesn't take that much longer. And just think, no one can say your wood doesn't look natural. Again, thank you very much for all of your help. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://members.xoom.com/Uggies/dju.htm Page Revised 9/12/99 "Every modeller will rise to his own level of masochism" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:05:22 -0600 From: Dale Beamish <31241054@3web.net> To: List Subject: Richtophen expert Message-ID: <38106F21.C5394924@3web.net> O.K. group who is the Richtophen expert amongst us? Dale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:01:33 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Jasta 4 unit markings Message-ID: <38106E3D.FA9F350B@banet.net> Hello, Michael-- Thanks. I have the reference. The question of the moment is specifically with respect to Dr.I unit colors/markings for the Jasta, which appear to be basically unknown at this point. Regards, Stefen Michael S. Alvarado wrote: > Look in the Albatros Publications/Greg Van Wyngarten Datafile special on the Colors of the Richtofen Flying > Circus, there are several Jasta 4 Fokker Dr.I schemes in there. > > Alvie > > skarver@banet.net wrote: > > > Good evening, again, Bill-- > > 1. Thanks for pointing out the verbiage in "Flying Circus." > > 2. Finally found a reproduction of a putative Jasta 4 machine in "Fokker V5/Dr.I," by Wolfgang Schuster & > > Achim Sven Engels (Schiffer, nd), p. 34, top plate. The caption to this front right three-quarter view > > reads, "This triplane probably belonged to Jasta 4.: How's that for confidence? > > In any event, what one sees are light-colored cowling and wheel covers. Possibly white but lighter than the > > underside blue, which in my view is too light for a "sky blue." Could one believe in a 'silbergrau'? Would > > such have been available in the field? > > Do you know whether the S/S In Action, the Nowarra (?) Schiffer on the triplane, or the Imrie on the type > > have other Jasta 4 birds pictured? > > Regards, > > Stefen > > > > William H. Shuey wrote: > > > > > skarver@banet.net wrote: > > > > > > > > Good evening, Bill-- > > > > Thanks for the reply. > > > > I have the "Flying Circus" reference, too. So I am more interested in your > > > > Allied intel summary (which I don't remember seeing in the Wyngarden, or did I > > > > miss something?). It was referenced in the paragraph on Triplanes-page 4- righthand column, about a > > > third of the way down. > > > > > > > By 'sky blue' are we really talking about Fokker turquoise? Still given that > > > > the unit seems to have had black and white as their colors both before and > > > > after the triplanes, why would they have changed to blue for the Dr.I's? Is > > > > 'off-white' really just a dirty white? White, at least, would seem to make > > > > sense. > > > > Regards, > > > > Stefen > > > > As I said, since they only had tri-planes for less than 2 months, not much was > > > recorded. We'll probably never know now-too many years gone by. > > > > > > Bill Shuey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:15:43 -0500 From: "John C Glaser" To: Subject: RE: Richtophen expert Message-ID: Well....... Let's start by saying the name is spelled Richthofen. :-) - JG -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Dale Beamish Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 9:07 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Richtophen expert O.K. group who is the Richtophen expert amongst us? Dale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:02:24 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: another RED question Message-ID: <38106E70.855F6F88@banet.net> Good morning, Peter-- I assume your "streaky" here refers to the red overpainting, not the underlying streakiness bleeding thru as on a Dr. I, since the D.VII is a printed fabric-covered aircraft. Yes? However, I think rather too much can be made of the idea of thin red paint due to pigment shortage, etc. with consequent low hiding power. After all, the whole point was to change the appearance of the aircraft. Looking through my Albatros pubs, I see very little evidence of bleed-through even with colors not usually know for their high hiding power, like yellow. In the case of EU's candy-striper, Du Doch Nicht (DDN), the one photo I am aware of, shows a very solidly covered elevator and horizontal tail. The other argument made respecting good coverage--namely, that achieving it results in additional weight and consequent unacceptable performance losses--can be countered by examples of fully painted aircraft such as Kirschstein's "Optical Illusion" and other Jasta 6 D.VII's with full "barber-pole" fuselage painting. Regards, Stefen PETER LEONARD wrote: > Ernest > >>Was just sitting around thinking about future projects and came up with a > >>question. Would Udet's D-VII have had the loz showing through the red?<< > > Ernest, Udet's candy striper would most likely have had a streaky fuselage. > Can anyone confirm this was the same machine previously flown by Goering and > originally prepared for LvR? If so the pictures of Goering show the aircraft > with solid fuselage colours. > > Peter > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:21:03 -0600 From: Dale Beamish <31241054@3web.net> To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Richtophen expert Message-ID: <381072CF.DEAEA703@3web.net> Not when you're typing with two fingers John! I stand corrected. Are you my man? Dale John C Glaser wrote: > Well....... > > Let's start by saying the name is spelled Richthofen. :-) > > - JG > > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Dale Beamish > Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 9:07 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Richtophen expert > > O.K. group who is the Richtophen expert amongst us? > Dale ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1932 **********************