WWI Digest 1917 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Salmson's belly button by Dennis Ugulano 2) Re: Weekend Slammer on the shelf by Dennis Ugulano 3) Re: Salmson's belly button by "Bob Pearson" 4) Re: Lack of French Datafiles, was Re:French Site Question by "Michael S. Alvarado" 5) Re: Salmson's belly button by "Michael S. Alvarado" 6) Re: Salmson's belly button by "Bob Pearson" 7) Re: The Camel Has Landed by "Steve" 8) Unsubscribing by David & Carol Fletcher 9) Re: Unbuilt Models on Hand by smperry@mindspring.com 10) Re: Resin by smperry@mindspring.com 11) RE: Lack of French Datafiles, was Re:French Site Question by Shane Weier 12) Free catalogs by "Landon, James D" 13) Berg Photos on the web by smperry@mindspring.com 14) Berg D.I by Matthew E Bittner 15) Re: Berg D.I by smperry@mindspring.com 16) Re: Berg Photos on the web by Matthew E Bittner 17) RE: Off to Oz by Shane Weier 18) Re: Region II biplanes categories by "Landon, James D" 19) Re: Berg Photos on the web by "Leonard Endy" 20) Re: Berg Photos on the web by "Charles and Linda Duckworth" 21) Web update by Matthew E Bittner 22) VCR Alert - The Wright Bros. by "Bob Pearson" 23) Re: Berg Photos on the web by smperry@mindspring.com 24) Re: Berg Photos on the web by smperry@mindspring.com 25) Re: Berg Photos on the web by smperry@mindspring.com 26) Re: Berg Photos on the web by Ernest Thomas 27) Re: Unbuilt Models on Hand by roguerpj 28) 1/72 Bristol M.1C??? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 29) Re: 1/72 Bristol M.1C??? by Dennis Ugulano 30) Re: Fokker Streaking by Dave Watts 31) RE: 1/72 Bristol M.1C??? by Shane Weier 32) RE: Fokker Streaking by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:18:00 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Salmson's belly button Message-ID: <199910111318_MC2-887C-BC00@compuserve.com> RK >> I can never figure out what I had done and how I had done it! RK << Been there. done that. Especially when it comes to the bottle of paint you pulled down and added just a little extra something to it to make it just right. Now where did I put that bottle of paint? Sigh. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://members.xoom.com/Uggies/dju.htm Page Revised 9/12/99 "Every modeller will rise to his own level of masochism" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:18:04 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Weekend Slammer on the shelf Message-ID: <199910111317_MC2-887C-BC03@compuserve.com> sp, >> After a nearly steady diet of II'lya since May, I needed to build and finish something, this worked and was a load of fun. Photos as soon as I can get it around the digital camera at work. << It is always nice to do a slammer after a hard one. We all await the results of your photos. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://members.xoom.com/Uggies/dju.htm Page Revised 9/12/99 "Every modeller will rise to his own level of masochism" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:21:39 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: ww1 mailing list Subject: Re: Salmson's belly button Message-ID: <199910111731.KAA13580@mail.rapidnet.net> And once again, After perusing yet more pics thanks to RK I can safely say I have no idea what is standard. Some appear to be as I first surmised ... outties on the cowl ring and innies on the rest of the cowl. Other photos show all outties ... however they do all show that the innies are in fact reversed scoops. I have decided I will just do both options and I can then choose whichever is correct for a particular aircraft Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:46:13 -0400 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Lack of French Datafiles, was Re:French Site Question Message-ID: <38022264.E1F25032@bellatlantic.net> Amen to that with the recent republication of Datafile 20, Nieport 17 I now have a complete set of datafiles. I don't even like to think about the cost probably clse to $1000 over a couple of years. I still do not have all the datafile specials or any of the mini-datafiles. Now if only someone would reprint the old profile series. I have most of the WW II stuff but almost none of the WWI subjects I acquired in my early teenage and college years are with me now.When I started to buy them in the mid -sixties they were an expensive $.35US a copy. Datafiles go from $15-$20 with less color profiles and virtually no structural descriptions of the subject airfames that I found so useful in Profiles. My $1.00 worth (1967 $.02 adjusted for inflation) Alvie smperry@mindspring.com wrote: > >>Personally, I would welcome Datafiles on a wider range of aircraft, but.. > > > >Just to keep this in perspective, if I could have foreseen in the 70's that > >I would, one day, have 70 or 80 specialised books on almost every major WWI > >type with plans, details, markings etc all meticulously researched, I would > >have been an extremely happy man. > >I didn't, we do and I am! > >Think of glasses being half-full, rather than half-empty! > >Sandy > > Don't forget, you also had the opportunity, (wisdom), to purchase those > 70 -80 books incrementally. Us Johnny - come - lately's have overwhelming > catching up to do in acquiring such literature. > > I keep trying to think ... half full wallet, but my wife keeps emptying it. > sp > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:55:52 -0400 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Salmson's belly button Message-ID: <380224A8.AE9E89EC@bellatlantic.net> Bob, Is there any correlation between subcontractors and outies/innies. Who else besides the prime contractor (Salmson) built the bird? Alvie Bob Pearson wrote: > And once again, > > After perusing yet more pics thanks to RK I can safely say I have no idea > what is standard. Some appear to be as I first surmised ... outties on the > cowl ring and innies on the rest of the cowl. Other photos show all outties > .. however they do all show that the innies are in fact reversed scoops. > > I have decided I will just do both options and I can then choose whichever > is correct for a particular aircraft > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:16:54 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Salmson's belly button Message-ID: <199910111826.LAA15383@mail.rapidnet.net> Alvie, I'm not sure about distinctions between contractors, however the following totals are given 2,200 by Salmson itself 1,000 by Latécoère, Hanriot andDesfontaines Bob ---------- >From: "Michael S. Alvarado" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Salmson's belly button >Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999, 11:04 AM > > Bob, > > Is there any correlation between subcontractors and outies/innies. Who else > besides the prime contractor (Salmson) built the bird? > > Alvie > > Bob Pearson wrote: > >> And once again, >> >> After perusing yet more pics thanks to RK I can safely say I have no idea >> what is standard. Some appear to be as I first surmised ... outties on the >> cowl ring and innies on the rest of the cowl. Other photos show all outties >> .. however they do all show that the innies are in fact reversed scoops. >> >> I have decided I will just do both options and I can then choose whichever >> is correct for a particular aircraft >> >> Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:23:40 +0100 From: "Steve" To: Subject: Re: The Camel Has Landed Message-ID: <001801bf141b$01a00500$e5e107c3@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 4:07 AM Subject: Re: The Camel Has Landed > Thanks Scho. My wife thinks that I am "completely mad" for getting > involved in all these kits and things, so maybe that should be a go. > I forgot to tell you how great the model looks!! I like the article of > how you did it. Maybe I'll do that one, but in the proper scale!! > Duckin' n' runnin', > -Rick- > And WELL YOU MIGHT. Pah. > Scho http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~scho.deni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:48:07 -0700 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Unsubscribing Message-ID: <380222D7.64C3@mars.ark.com> I'll be on the road for a couple of weeks hauling a truckload of books and kits to Mike F. What! No 1:1 scale flying - I'll have withdrawal symptoms. Play nicely while I'm gone. Dave Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:04:24 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Unbuilt Models on Hand Message-ID: <001a01bf142c$39c52080$962845cf@default> Ben: I built 3 of them Smer Dh2, testors Nie 17 & hobbycraft Nie 17 Build articles on first 2 here: http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/PWWIP.htm hobbycraft kitg was nice, though some accuracy problems with nose. hth sp >Here is a list of the models I have in boxes, unbuilt. Anyone care to comment >on any of the kits? Would appreciate any comments offered, good or bad. > >Ben Lankford > >Testors 1/48 SPAD 13C.1 >DML 1/48 SPAD 13 >SMER 1/48 Airco DH. 11 >Testors 1/48 Nieuport 17C.1 >Hobby Craft 1/32 Billy Bishop British Nieuport 17 >Eduard 1/48 Sopwith Pup >DML 1/48 Fokker DV11 >DML 1/48 Fokker DV111 >Monogram 1/48 Sopwith Camel > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:11:16 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Resin Message-ID: <002901bf142d$283355c0$962845cf@default> Alberto Rada has built the SVA, and it is very impressive. I think it is on Alan's site... >Firmly recommended. If that is the SVA that Alberto had at the Nats, it is lovely. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:32:23 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Lack of French Datafiles, was Re:French Site Question Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475BFD@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Sandy says: > Think of glasses being half-full, rather than half-empty! Hear, hear. OTOH, if the stereotypes of Scots were even half true, you'd be run out of town for that attitude! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:40:08 -0600 From: "Landon, James D" To: "'WWI modelers list'" Subject: Free catalogs Message-ID: <98B98E951BA0D1119A590000F8045A4704A4D1CB@emss02m05.ems.lmco.com> Hey everybody, check this out. Free catalogs. This is where I got the cylinder kits for my LeRhone engine for my Tommy. They make 1/87 scale things for model railroads, so maybe if you all write to them they'll consider making stuff in 1/48 and 1/72. Jim, rudely jumping right into the middle of whatever you guys might have been talking about. > -----Original Message----- > From: willbro@pacbell.net [SMTP:willbro@pacbell.net] > Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 3:17 PM > To: Jim Landon > Subject: Williams Brothers New Web Page > > Jim, > > Be sure to check out our new web page at: www.williamsbrosinc.com > > We'll talk soon, > Carlo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:52:54 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: "Multiple recipients of list" Subject: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <000301bf1432$f9b87940$4a2b45cf@default> Photos of this weekend's obsession may be viewed at: http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/gallery.htm It didn't have to be pretty, it just had to be done in 2 days. sp E-mail smperry@mindspring.com Web Site http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/PWWIP.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:53:39 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Berg D.I Message-ID: <19991011.165339.-170563.0.mbittner@juno.com> Does anybody have a guess as to what color the A-Hians would have painted the interior metal parts on an Aviatik Berg D.I? Like sp, I'm using the Berg D.I as a "breaker". Unlike sp, I've been in a modeling slump. Which I hope the Berg alleviates. I'm using the PART photoetch on it, and that set is extremely nice. Anybody else build this combo - Toko Berg D.I and PART photoetch - that can provide some pointers? Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html nb: Berg D.I; hopefully finish some other "stuff" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:04:10 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Berg D.I Message-ID: <001201bf1434$8c568ac0$4a2b45cf@default> >Does anybody have a guess as to what color the A-Hians would have painted >the interior metal parts on an Aviatik Berg D.I? Medium Gray ? >Like sp, I'm using the Berg D.I as a "breaker". Unlike sp, I've been in >a modeling slump. Which I hope the Berg alleviates. It will. >I'm using the PART photoetch on it, and that set is extremely nice. >Anybody else build this combo - Toko Berg D.I and PART photoetch - that >can provide some pointers? I don't have the Part set for the Berg, but where can you find ritght size rings to use as tires for the Part wire wheels? sp > > >Matt Bittner >http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook >http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html > >nb: Berg D.I; hopefully finish some other "stuff" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:00:00 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <19991011.170001.-170563.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:51:47 -0400 (EDT) smperry@mindspring.com writes: > Photos of this weekend's obsession may be viewed at: > > http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/gallery.htm > > It didn't have to be pretty, it just had to be done in 2 days. Hey, it still came out great! Hope mine pulls me out of my slump! Great job! Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:59:05 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Off to Oz Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475BFE@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Lance, > I will be unsubbing later this week for a month or so, headed > Down Under to help demonstrate, as if proof were needed, that > North American rugby is among the world's worst. Maybe they need you in Ireland next weekend? Or is that an experience you'd rather NOT have? > > If the Aussies and Kiwis don't stomp me to death, I will > return in mid November. Naah, we're all timid. My skull has more bumps on top than the average pineapple from a serious inability to escape the bottom of mauls - but surely the tag marks were accidental ;-) > My wife wonders why I'm insisting on a side trip to > Canberra....(heh! heh!) I wish you joy in Canberra. The AWM has refurbished the aircraft hall at the memorial, and I'm not sure which (if any :-( ) of the WW1 aircraft are left on display. Go there anyway, stand by the pool of reflection, look at the masses of names on the wall, and stand by the Tomb of the Unknown. Then go inside and see about 1% of one of the worlds largest collections of militaria. Then... make sure you take a trip to the Treloar Centre (the storage and restoration facility) where I believe the majority of the WW1 aviation stuff has been moved. I'm not certain of the schedule, but the Albatros at least is due for conservation, and may not be on view. Look up their web site before you go, and email them asking for an opportunity to go *inside* the storage facility. You need to convince them of your bona fides but membership of any of the historical societies - or a long journey "just to see the planes" - will do. When I visited last (1997) I asked for 6 hours !! access and was given a series of "research assistants" who took notes as I took photos, took me to their rooms for tea, and generally made me most welcome. FWIW the members of the public are usually restricted to an enclosed mezzanine above the storage floor - the storage facility is dust proof and temp/humidity controlled. > Any other must-sees between Adelaide > and Sydney? Hobby shops that can't be missed? By US and UK standards our shops are pretty crappy. But you might try the excellent Hylands Bookstore in Melbourne if it's on the itinerary. Hearns Hobbies in Flinders St. and Victorian Hobby Centre in Swanston Street, Melbourne are OK if you just *have* to get a fix. Again, if in Melbourne, a trip down to the RAAF Museum is well worthwhile - about an hours drive Enjoy yourself ! Dicta IRA applies ! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:07:58 -0600 From: "Landon, James D" To: "'WWI modelers list'" Subject: Re: Region II biplanes categories Message-ID: <98B98E951BA0D1119A590000F8045A4704A4D1CD@emss02m05.ems.lmco.com> Yesterday, Michael Kendix wrote: "Third, was your's truly's Stark D.VII." Congrats!! Jim, trying to catch up on digests again while the boss isn't looking ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:29:22 -0400 From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <82ICOHjNPY9xckAu=WPf=RGLvcTm@4ax.com> On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:51:40 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >Photos of this weekend's obsession may be viewed at: > >http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/gallery.htm > Nice job Steve and all in one-weekend ? I have trouble putting together a balsa glider, all four pieces, in a weekend. Actually I was hoping to get some work done on the FT 17, but .... Wife wanted a new medicine cabinet in the bath, oh what the hell, throw in a new light fixture she says, and might as well do the vanity and sink.... Pull out the old vanity....new one is a little smaller...looks like a paint job is at hand. Remove border around top of walls and really destroy the paint underneath. At least it's done now. And for this coming weekend she's looking for new vinyl flooring for the kitchen.... I think she needs to go visit her sister in Philly for a couple of weeks. Len ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:01:45 -0500 From: "Charles and Linda Duckworth" To: Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <009501bf1444$fb3bdfc0$ae2c57d8@cnlduckwor> Nice job on the Berg; I sanded on the Pyro Boxkite wings all this weekend and still am not half through, got all the ribs off and now am working on the underside. Your BE2a is still one of my 'all time favorite' model pix on the www. Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:15:22 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Web update Message-ID: <19991011.191523.-260331.0.mbittner@juno.com> Finally uploaded the Caudron pages. I will add Salmson next, then it will be shipped to Al. I also have some decal info to add that Mike F. sent, and then I will rest. Even if it's past the seventh day. ;-) Again: http://home.sprintmail.com/~tbittners/ Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:05:29 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: ww1 mailing list Subject: VCR Alert - The Wright Bros. Message-ID: <199910120114.SAA27697@mail.rapidnet.net> The History Channel in Canada is airing a show on the Wrights tonight at 7pm/10pm and again at 10pm/1am (Pacific/Eastern) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:08:36 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <000c01bf144e$502882a0$112845cf@default> >Hey, it still came out great! Hope mine pulls me out of my slump! > >Great job! > > >Matt Bittner Thanks Matt, sometimes it takes a quick & easy one to get back in stride. sp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:15:19 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <001101bf144f$40312e00$112845cf@default> >Nice job Steve and all in one-weekend ? Make that a one-track, obsessive weekend. Thanks Len. Your bathroom remodeling story had me laughing. My wife has trouble understanding that when I get absorbed in a model, the house can fall down around me and as long as the dust doesn't mess up a paint job, I wouldn't notice. sp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:19:24 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <001601bf144f$d26e9e60$112845cf@default> >Nice job on the Berg; I sanded on the Pyro Boxkite wings all this weekend >and still am not half through, got all the ribs off and now am working on >the underside. Thanks Charlie. I have the Boxkite and I was telling myself that I'd be in for a job of work getting that fabric detail off. I do like your pre war birds and I can't wait to see this one finished. >Your BE2a is still one of my 'all time favorite' model pix on the www. Garsh, yer makin' me blush. sp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:35:03 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Berg Photos on the web Message-ID: <38029047.769@bellsouth.net> smperry@mindspring.com wrote: > > Photos of this weekend's obsession may be viewed at: Looks good bud. Were you saying the cammo colors looked questionable? They look a lot better then the Ed/FB hex colors. E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:53:11 -0500 From: roguerpj To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Unbuilt Models on Hand Message-ID: <38029487.16927E7F@black-hole.com> Ben, I am doing the DML DVIII now. Nice kit. Though I would lose the decals and get a good after market set. Americal is what I am using. rob johnson BEN8800@aol.com wrote: > > Here is a list of the models I have in boxes, unbuilt. Anyone care to comment > on any of the kits? Would appreciate any comments offered, good or bad. > > Ben Lankford > > Testors 1/48 SPAD 13C.1 > DML 1/48 SPAD 13 > SMER 1/48 Airco DH. 11 > Testors 1/48 Nieuport 17C.1 > Hobby Craft 1/32 Billy Bishop British Nieuport 17 > Eduard 1/48 Sopwith Pup > DML 1/48 Fokker DV11 > DML 1/48 Fokker DV111 > Monogram 1/48 Sopwith Camel -- roguerpj "Its not you. My spell checker couldn't figure it out either." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:51:59 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: 1/72 Bristol M.1C??? Message-ID: <0.668beb97.25340a5f@aol.com> Anybody know if the Bullet is available in 1/72???? A teensy-weensy modeler friend wants to know. TIA Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:10:57 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: 1/72 Bristol M.1C??? Message-ID: <199910120010_MC2-8891-44C0@compuserve.com> Tom, Pegasus did one a long, long time ago. I don't think anyone has done one since. It's kit number 13, Stage 1. Probably released about 1986. I'm afraid this one is long out of production. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://members.xoom.com/Uggies/dju.htm Page Revised 9/12/99 "Every modeller will rise to his own level of masochism" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:43:34 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Fokker Streaking Message-ID: <199910120443.XAA52155@ind.cioe.com> Hi all, Breathing like into an old thread. I was gone for about four weeks and had to carve through 3500 E-mails. I always tread lightly when discussing colors, but in this case I will stroll into the mine field. I have been paying special attention to the early streaky Fokker D.VIIs. In support of the color fading theory, I will present Fokker D.VII 244/18. There are some good photos of this ship in Anthology I. In the earliest photo of 244/18 we see that it is carrying the very early patte, "iron (eisern) crosses". This gives you a chance to study the fuselage streaking to some degree. This plane was flown by Heldmann. There are other photos that show LvR mounting 244/18, but now the plane is carrying later field modified balken crosses. This photo is showing the same side of the plane, and you can see where the side of the plane appears lighter in color where the "D.VII 244/18" is, and the area immediately in front appears quite dark, but you can still make out "Fok.". I know that camera exposure times can make a difference in how the subject appears, but in this case you can see the color of these two areas compared side by side. Any thoughts? Another bit for thought, is it possible that the corresponding exterior fabric area of the interior of the cockpit could become more darkened by exhaust fumes, oil, smoke, etc.coming into the cockpit. And the fuselage area aft of the cockpit is protected by the fabric partition immediately behind the seat and doesn't? Has anyone looked at Dr.Is for a similar phenomenon? Best Wishes, Dave Watts At 03:58 PM 9/21/99 -0400, you wrote: >Well, let's see. I have a couple of things to say about the colors and what >not. First, I always thought that the 8cm brush in the green dope over CDL >seemed like a weird camo scheme unless the planes were to be hidden in tall >weeds. As to the weathering from green to brown, does that infer that the >paint pigment changed color, or that the green weathered off the plane and >exposed the CDL? I wouldn't like that arguement. > >As to the 'olive green', I actually used RLM 70 'Black-green'. The olive >comes from the CDL color showing thru it. Are you saying that a more vivid >green has been suggested? I wonder, as most of the photos show some dark >streaking, and some show a nearly uniform appearance between the streaks and >the CDL. I also wonder if, as the war progressed, the color used for >streaking changed hue and tone. And quality! Because if one is to believe >'the Old Fokker Mechanic', then one is also drawn to the conclusion that the >green was unstable - photochemically or otherwise. > > >Interesting Questions, > > >DB > >P.S., Relax Lance, it's only plastic! > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lance Krieg >To: Multiple recipients of list >Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 10:36 AM >Subject: Re: Fokker Streaking > > >>Thanks for the kind words,all, about the D.VII Alan recently added to the >Web page. >> >>I'll take E.'s challenge on the constructive criticism by inviting it on >this interpretation of the streaking. >> >>Clearly the Anthology contributors are convinced that this color should be >much greener than hitherto depicted. My Dr.I looks a lot more like David's >recent trio, more olive/brown over CDL, so I hesitated to embark on this >version. >> >>Anyone care to offer a theory that embraces both depictions? The Anthology >quotes an old Fokker mechanic who recalled the machines were delivered >green, which changed to brown over the passage of some weeks. >> >>Personally, I gnash my teeth whenever new research overturns a >preconception and renders one of my models "wrong". >> >>At least I don't have any KuK machines that are caught in the grays vs. >tan/green conundrum! >> >>Lance >> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:23:33 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: 1/72 Bristol M.1C??? Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475C0A@mimhexch.mim.com.au> RK, RK HEYYYY WHERE ARE YOUU RK Tom said: > Anybody know if the Bullet is available in 1/72???? A > teensy-weensy modeler friend wants to know. I know where the missing elf is..... Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:08:47 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Fokker Streaking Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475C0C@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Dave, > I know that camera exposure times can make a difference in > how the subject appears, but in this case you can see the > color of these two areas compared > side by side. Any thoughts? > Without intending to be rude, I'd say it's meaningless. There are simply so many variables that can affect the representation that to look at two different photos taken at different times is fraught with complications. For example, not just exposure, but the contrast of the film, nature, direction and colour of lighting, colour sensitivity of the film, filtration, lens characteristics, processing temperature, time and chemicals .....and more I've forgotten no doubt .... can affect the relative density of two areas of a negative. THEN....we get into variations in the production of the print. And we haven't even *touched* on variations in the subject like surface texture (for example, a glossy surface gives greater contrasts than a matt one, so an older aircraft which has lost that that lovely new shine might appear to have greyer whites - and greyer blacks as well!) Only MHO, but almost the only reliable way to compare is within a *single* photo, and even then, only on an area where you can reasonably rely on identical lighting and surface texture. None of which will stop me speculating, nor should it stop anyone else - so long as we all understand how little it's worth Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1917 **********************