WWI Digest 1826 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) CSM DVII Lozenge by "Brad Gossen" 2) Re: Voss's Clean Shirt by Sharon Henderson 3) Re: D7 ..Point of order Mr Chairman by ERIC HIGHT 4) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by Sharon Henderson 5) Bloody Voss! by John & Allison Cyganowski 6) Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by ERIC HIGHT 7) Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by Albatrosdv@aol.com 8) Re: Bloody Voss! by smperry@mindspring.com 9) RE: Going away.... parting gift... by "John Glaser" 10) Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by smperry@mindspring.com 11) Re: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot by "Charles and Linda Duckworth" 12) Re: Warped Wing & Fuselage by Ernest Thomas 13) Re: Decal Voting by Ernest Thomas 14) Re: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot by "DAVID BURKE" 15) Re: N.28 decals. by Ernest Thomas 16) Re: N.28 decals. by smperry@mindspring.com 17) Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by ERIC HIGHT 18) Re: N.28 decals. by "DAVID BURKE" 19) Will the real genius step forward was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by smperry@mindspring.com 20) Re: N.28 decals. by Ernest Thomas 21) Re: Bloody Voss! by DWa7000007@aol.com 22) Re: N.28 decals. by smperry@mindspring.com 23) Re: Aurora Gotha by Ernest Thomas 24) Re: N.28 decals. by "DAVID BURKE" 25) Re: Will the real genius step forward was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by ERIC HIGHT 26) Re: Will the real genius step forward was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by roguerpj 27) RE: Bloody Voss! by Shane Weier 28) Re: Bloody Voss! by Ernest Thomas 29) Re BIG news suggestions by "Len Smith" 30) Re: CSM DVII Lozenge by "PETER LEONARD" 31) Tissue and Reverse Lozenge (Was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge) by roguerpj 32) Re: Tissue and Reverse Lozenge (Was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge) by "PETER LEONARD" 33) Re: w-29's by "Tom Werner Hansen" 34) Internet Modeler September Issue by "Chris Banyai-Riepl" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:41:14 -0400 From: "Brad Gossen" To: Subject: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <199909010155.VAA01998@mail6.globalserve.net> ERIC I'm not sure if this has been addressed but would it be possible to include some strips of 'faded' lozenge to represent the reverse side of the lozenge bolt to be used on the cockpit interior walls. Brad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Henderson To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Voss's Clean Shirt Message-ID: :-) Note to myself: swallow the Diet Coke first, THEN open any message on the Modelling List.... There, I think the monitor's clean. (The Merrimac/Virginia, now, I dunno.... ) I have heard from mine own Opa that American pilots in the Second War used to try and spot German battalions from the air by looking for their laundry hanging on bushes -- the Brits and Amis wore khaki undies, the Germans wore white. What a giveaway.... ;-) He was ordered by Corps HQ to order his men not to launder their underwear, because HQ didn't want to be spotted. Imagine giving an order like that to cleanliness-obsessed Krauts.... :-) Applying retro-thinking, the underwear in WW1 Germany might well have been white, also. So, the Japanese kite face wouldn't have shown up at ALL.... :-) That's assuming, of course, we can find Voss' long-lost bursch (or channel him through an Ouija board if he's gone west) to ask him.... :-) Sharon, About to head North for her brother's Long Walk Down That Aisle.... On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Dale Beamish wrote: > After reading through the messages I think it is agreed that Voss always > wore > a clean silk shirt and clean underwear to impress the french lassies. > This poses another question? Were the underwear Olive Green or Yellow? > > Dale > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:57:47 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: D7 ..Point of order Mr Chairman Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990831185747.006b6a1c@pop.amug.org> lance, i asked for it! but that's what i am here for. i think chord wise is the way to go. as to exaust pipes that's a possiblity. again i would need masters. perhaps they (panels & pipes) could be packaged together if they are "matched"? eric nigel, no 72ND gauges. you would need to talk to matt. no i am not giving stuff away. sorry! thanks for your input at least i am not alone completely. support is much appreciated. eric shane, thanks! matt, all three in 1/32nd? your guess is better than mine. your call my friend. just let me know. i can be easy at times just not cheap. eric to all, thanks for all the input. just super. it is all greatly appreciated. eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:05:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Henderson To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: As I discovered when researching the first three tripes for my OTF article on Wolff, who went west in 102/17, the planes were not fully what their later descendants would be (aka, not possessed of a full set of features). 101/17 stayed at Adlershof for proof and type testing; 102/17 lived and died in factory colors with a possible slap of red on it somewhere, and Voss added that troublesome face. :-) I would just throw that out as a cautionary note when comparing this plane to non-prototype, combat models of the next month and following.... Sharon, Pedant :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:03:08 -0400 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Bloody Voss! Message-ID: <37CC895C.362F@worldnet.att.net> Ha! Y'all thought this post was from someone else didn't ya! ;-) I am afraid I must weigh in with the green camp. There was an interview with Timm in an early C&C (US). It has some seldom seen photos of Voss' D.III with and without the heart. (I am NOT going to look at the radiator!) Timm says that the plane (103/17) was filthy from all of the castor oil and dust. He claims to have had to scrape off the grime. So I don't think the cowl was painted yellow at a later date. I think it was either painted shortly after it arrived or not at all. The two F.1s were delivered to the front for evaluation at the same time and most probably wore the same streaky olive scheme and had olive green cowls. Save for the face on 103/17, 102/17 and 103/17 looked the same and I think they probably were. Remember, these ships were specials and were probably not considered part of the regular Jasta line-ups. I think that they were both delivered in green and went down that way. Doesn't mean that I am right, just opinionated. Regards, Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:05:32 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990831190532.006af318@pop.amug.org> brad, now you are pushing it! good idea though. there will be a sustainial block (bolt) of loz for rib tapes etc. there should be enough to do inside tapes but the modeler would need to fade them. geez i got leave you something to do on the model. next you'll want me to build them for you. i am being sarcastic (slap)! i can't help myself. keep the ideas coming. thanks eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:17:33 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <3919a923.24fde6bd@aol.com> In a message dated 99-08-31 22:11:18 EDT, you write: << keep the ideas coming. thanks eric >> How about *inside* lozenge???? The fabric was printed, and regardless of whether the outside was lozenge or painted some other color, the cockpit interior would show the lozenge fabric from the inside - I suppose lighter, etc. One one of these freaking enormous 1/28 kits, that is going to be *very* noticeable, and and something should be supplied for it. Just chiming in here. Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:25:27 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Bloody Voss! Message-ID: <003f01bef421$41fab4c0$200b56d1@default> >The two F.1s were delivered to the front for evaluation at the same time >and most probably wore the same streaky olive scheme and had olive green >cowls. Save for the face on 103/17, 102/17 and 103/17 looked the same >and I think they probably were. Remember, these ships were specials and >were probably not considered part of the regular Jasta line-ups. I >think that they were both delivered in green and went down that way. > >Doesn't mean that I am right, just opinionated. > >Regards, >Cyg. John makes a real good point here. These planes were probably not "on charge" with the Jasta. While personal markings were much more tolerated by the Germans than the British, it is quite likely that the special status of these ships kept these markings to the minimum described. Just another bit of weight to the olive side of the discussion to my way of thinking. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:29:24 -0500 From: "John Glaser" To: Subject: RE: Going away.... parting gift... Message-ID: <000001bef421$d21f7e50$cf026b83@usalbhlslt026> Thanks Dave, I needed that........ I saw one of these roll when I was a kid in the 50's. Not a pretty sight. (Me as a kid either.) - JCG -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Zulis@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 5:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Going away.... parting gift... Greetings, all... I am going away for a few days of R&R in the lake country. I came across a "parting gift" that I could not resist. Gotta see this - very ot, but a big hit with those of us who have a grudge against the 10-thingies. The caption (not visible on the image) says "Messerschmitt KR-200 Roadster" http://www.phoenix-model.com/images/Revell_Germany/rgh8917.jpg This is, without a doubt, the ugliest thing I have every seen on four wheels. Amazing that these same people also made some pretty serviceable aeroplanes. Bye all, talk to you in a few days... Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:42:01 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <004601bef423$921d9ec0$200b56d1@default> >How about *inside* lozenge???? The fabric was printed, and regardless of >whether the outside was lozenge or painted some other color, the cockpit >interior would show the lozenge fabric from the inside - I suppose lighter, >etc. One one of these freaking enormous 1/28 kits, that is going to be >*very* noticeable, and and something should be supplied for it. > >Just chiming in here. > >Tom C Well, a misting of CDL before applying the loz decal to the inside of the model would pretty well replicate the "printed through" side, (as opposed to the "printed on" side). I'd rather do that than pay more for a sheet that cost Eric more to produce as I 'm sure the "faded" loz would do. Having the extra loz on the sheet to do the inside walls of the cockpit is a great idea. Eric: My D.VII kit is on the shelf with a copy of the correction article tucked in the box awaiting your 4 color loz & Udet markings. So take your time, consider the responses and do a proper job of it. Having just bought one of your Luke sheets for my big Spad, I can assure the List that the wait will be worthwile. (And all the hobby shops who bought up copies of this kit after the re-release only to have that correction article appear in FSM will owe you a big debt for making that a more attractive project.) sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:56:17 -0500 From: "Charles and Linda Duckworth" To: Subject: Re: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot Message-ID: <001301bef425$9165fca0$099359d8@q1p5x0> Dave, If you're in St. Louis this coming Friday the St. Louis Jasta is meeting at my house at 7pm -----Original Message----- From: DAVID BURKE To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 7:06 PM Subject: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot > >Howdy Fellow Asylum-Mates, > > Gotta go to Chicago and St.Louis for a bit, so I'll miss the brouhaha >for a week. But I posted the pics of my Jasta 5 Albatros D.V, so you can >have something to remember me by (and ridicule, I'm sure). And YES, I know >that there are some flaws in it, but at least it's off my #*^*(_)^&*$ table! >(NO ERNIE, that's not a Jasta 11 color reference!). > > Later! > > Dave > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:09:00 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Warped Wing & Fuselage Message-ID: <37CC98CC.62F@bellsouth.net> Keith Thompson wrote: > > Thanks for the advice on flattening these things, guys. Ernie, I think > I'll try your method first as I don't think I could tape or rubber band the > wing flat enough and strong enough to hold it flat (it's pretty bent). Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. BUt I just thought of something. When you start repeating the process, you can leave the part in the hot water longer with each attempt, as it will be cooling down as time passes. I think after the third attempt, you could dump the water back in the pot and bring it to a boil again. Stay tuned next week when 'Cooking with Ernie' departs from the hot pots and show's you how to make Vichyssoise. Until then, keep your heart full and your bowels empty. E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:12:29 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Decal Voting Message-ID: <37CC999D.129E@bellsouth.net> James Gibbons wrote: > Any chance the decal voting could be taken off-list? My work mail box is getting kind of full of these posts. Gimme a break! This is probably the most ON topic thread I've started since I've been on this list, and you want us to move it off list? Help help! I'm being repressed! Besides if the vote takes place off list, how would anyone know if I'm telling the truth when I report to Eric that X beat the snot out of Y?" E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:08:01 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot Message-ID: <006e01bef428$176ad8a0$c182aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Nope, I'll be in Chicago - only will be in St.Louis Tuesday night to see an old friend, but thanks, wish I could attend! DB -----Original Message----- From: Charles and Linda Duckworth To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot >Dave, If you're in St. Louis this coming Friday the St. Louis Jasta is >meeting at my house at 7pm >-----Original Message----- >From: DAVID BURKE >To: Multiple recipients of list >Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 7:06 PM >Subject: Gotta go for a bit - here's a parting shot > > >> >>Howdy Fellow Asylum-Mates, >> >> Gotta go to Chicago and St.Louis for a bit, so I'll miss the brouhaha >>for a week. But I posted the pics of my Jasta 5 Albatros D.V, so you can >>have something to remember me by (and ridicule, I'm sure). And YES, I know >>that there are some flaws in it, but at least it's off my #*^*(_)^&*$ >table! >>(NO ERNIE, that's not a Jasta 11 color reference!). >> >> Later! >> >> Dave >> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:22:27 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <37CC9BF3.7CF@bellsouth.net> Lance Krieg wrote: > Looks like you'll have to buy Lone Star's, unless you want the Rickenbacker decals from the Glencoe kit. No posters, tho... I would, but the Glenco kit has no 'White 12's'. Oh well, maybe I'll just do that rat dog from the 147th AS. So has anyone built the BM 28? I was looking at the cockpit bits thinking of all the corrections and details I could add. Then I did a test fit on the fuselage halves and saw what a tiny opening that cockpit has. So is there any point in putting a lot of extra work into that cockpit? I mean besides the fact that I'LL know it's there? E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:34:42 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <007501bef42a$ee3977e0$200b56d1@default> >So is there any point in putting a lot of extra work into that cockpit? >I mean besides the fact that I'LL know it's there? >E. Ernie: Check the location of the top wing relative to the cockpit. A small cockpit opening with overhanging wing just ain't worth the effort. And the "I'll know it's there" aint what it's cracked up to be as a reason. My Camel's beautiful cockpit cannot be seen as I did a version with a small opening in the upper wing. Knowin' it's there ain't worth squat compared to seein' it there. Save the cockpit super details for that DH-2 you gonna build some day. (You can super detail the cracks in the dope surface of the 28's wing prior to the fabric ripping ;-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:32:41 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990831203241.006b07ac@pop.amug.org> tom, see sp's answer. dale, thanks much. i'll add it to the list. as to the w-12 not that i am aware of. it was revued in may/june issue of ws and there is a picture of the parts. sorry. i am going to "kill" my web guy here shortly. group, can you give any help to dale? sp, nail on the head! good show. the block should be big enough to accomplish this. what a killer idea cdl mist, pure genius. i had a lot more around the axel way, you don't even want know about!! i would really like to see more of these kits. demand is what drives the industry so why not use it to everyones advantage. i am a throw back from the 60's i gotta have a cause. no applause just money! in all sincerity, i really do appreciate all the input. you people are nuts! just the way i like it, you have made feel right at home. mucho thanks eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:35:43 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <009601bef42b$13327ec0$c182aec7@dora9sprynet.com> (You can super detail the cracks in the dope surface of the 28's wing >prior to the fabric ripping ;-) > >sp Or the 5-bladed prop following the ground loop! ;) DB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:02:34 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Will the real genius step forward was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <008601bef42e$d2be1c60$200b56d1@default> what a killer idea cdl mist, pure genius. Eric: Much as I appreciate the compliment, I heard that CDL mist idea from this list. I forget who is the genius, but I'm just a copy cat. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:05:04 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <37CCA5F0.60F0@bellsouth.net> DAVID BURKE wrote: > > (You can super detail the cracks in the dope surface of the 28's wing > >prior to the fabric ripping ;-) > > > >sp > > Or the 5-bladed prop following the ground loop! ;) You guys are such cards. E. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:09:24 EDT From: DWa7000007@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Bloody Voss! Message-ID: <1a76462b.24fe00f4@aol.com> All three Fok. F.1s had natural overall "sky blue" finish with the upper surfaces and sides streaked in "olive brown-green" As far as the color of Voss' cowling is concerned, It may well had been Yellow. And remember, Voss was not the only pilot to have the cowling of his Dr.1 painted-up with eyes, brow and mustache; compare this Dr.1 of Jasta 11 on page 10 in "German Fighter Units, June 1917-1918" with a fine view of Voss' Dr.1 on page 74, V/R and the F/C, Harleyford, and you'll see the big difference; Voss' mount has the "face" clearly painted in white on a cowling that dose not appear to be black. . .why? the tonal value is all wrong, it's more of a dark gray which is how yellow looks in orthochromatic film. Now look at the Jasta 11 triplane (March 1918) the "face" is clearly darker in tone (red, perhaps) than Voss' and the cowling could be green on the J/11 machine. And since red is complementary to green, green is a good choice for the cowling. But defiantly not green on Voss' mount. I wonder how many modelers mistake the Jasta 11 triplane for Voss'. It could happen. One other thing, look at the yellow on Jasta 10 albatros fighters, you can mistake it as black if someone hadn't told them it wasYellow. Oh! and look how the photograph of Lothar v/R's crashed YELLOW tailed triplane is some times mistaken for a Jatsa 12 black tailed Dr.1(page 17, Squadron No. 98 Fokker Dr.1 in action. Which is a crappy book anyway) Danny Walden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:16:32 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <009001bef430$c65c5520$200b56d1@default> >> >> (You can super detail the cracks in the dope surface of the 28's wing >> >prior to the fabric ripping ;-) >> > >> >sp >> >> Or the 5-bladed prop following the ground loop! ;) > >You guys are such cards. >E. Yeah, like the cards in the bicycle spokes, you know, the cards that make the RRRIIIIIIPPPPP sound. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:25:42 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Aurora Gotha Message-ID: <37CCAAC6.367B@bellsouth.net> Dave Berry wrote: > Does anybody know the extent of the corrections required to get a > reasonably accurate end product? I'm primarily concerned with gross > problems in dimensions and shape. I know the details are a weak but I > can handle that. Dave, Are you still standing by? Sorry for the delay. Been working LOOONG hours. Anyway, if you want to build a 'reasonably' accurate Gotha, then just kick back, build it like it is, and have a good time with it. I just got finished laying the parts on the GA from the Datafile. On the whole everything is 'reasonably' correct. The biggest problem(aside from those damned 3-D Kreuze on the wings) is the sweep. The kit has too much. WAY too much. The next biggest problem I see is the corners of all the flying surfaces are too sharp. Round em off a bit. The rest of it's just a bunch of subtle stuff that I would fix only if I was worried about raised eyebrows from subscribers to WWI modeling newsgroups. But I DO recomend getting the DF. Just tons of usefull stuff in there. E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:26:22 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <010601bef432$26dccfa0$c182aec7@dora9sprynet.com> >>> >>> (You can super detail the cracks in the dope surface of the 28's wing >>> >prior to the fabric ripping ;-) >>> > >>> >sp >>> >>> Or the 5-bladed prop following the ground loop! ;) >> >>You guys are such cards. >>E. > >Yeah, like the cards in the bicycle spokes, you know, the cards that make >the RRRIIIIIIPPPPP sound. >sp BRAAPPPP! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:44:48 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Will the real genius step forward was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990831214448.006cf01c@pop.amug.org> sp, thanks for the honesty but first come first served you still get the kudos from me! eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:12:52 -0500 From: roguerpj To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Will the real genius step forward was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <37CCB5D4.15435B4E@black-hole.com> If steve get kudos for coming up with the CLD mist idea. What do I get for pointing out that you can't just take Lozenge and put in to the inside of the craft. The pattern would need ot be reversed as it is the back side of the fabric. I to got this pearl for the list. For those that are slightly anal. Try the mist and while it is still wet brush over in a hatch pattern with a clean dry brush. This creates a neat fabric effect. The second idea is my own, been working on the inside of my E.V lately. rob johnson ERIC HIGHT wrote: > > sp, > thanks for the honesty but first come first served you still get the kudos > from me! > eric -- roguerpj "Its not you. My spell checker couldn't figure it out either." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:13:28 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Bloody Voss! Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475AAD@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Danny > All three Fok. F.1s had natural overall "sky blue" finish > with the upper > surfaces and sides streaked in "olive brown-green" As far as > the color of > Voss' cowling is concerned, It may well had been Yellow. And > remember, Voss > was not the only pilot to have the cowling of his Dr.1 > painted-up with eyes, > brow and mustache; compare this Dr.1 of Jasta 11 on page 10 > in "German > Fighter Units, June 1917-1918" with a fine view of Voss' Dr.1 > on page 74, V/R > and the F/C, Harleyford, and you'll see the big difference; > Voss' mount has > the "face" clearly painted in white on a cowling that dose > not appear to be > black. . .why? the tonal value is all wrong, it's more of a > dark gray which > is how yellow looks in orthochromatic film. Now look at the > Jasta 11 triplane > (March 1918) the "face" is clearly darker in tone (red, > perhaps) than Voss' > and the cowling could be green on the J/11 machine. And since red is > complementary to green, green is a good choice for the > cowling. But defiantly > not green on Voss' mount Sorry to be a spoilsport but this is utterly meaningless. I could take the original negatives and manufacture a darker cowl on the opposite print in 10 minutes ina darkroom using a different contrast grade of paper to make the print. It is *not* possible, whatever Dan San Abbott might say, to accurately determine the colour of any part of an aircraft by comparing the tonalities of different photos because you must have identical lighting (in both brightness and contrast), identical emulsion in the negative in terms of contrast and colour sensitivity, identical exposures, identical processing, identical printing paper (of identical contrast and sensitivity) with identical exposure to identical light sources and identical processing with the identical chemicals. Not bloody likely. Where you *can* usefully compare tonality to determine colour is within the *one* photo, against areas of *known* colour, and even there the requirement is for identical lighting and identical surface texture. Now show me a *single* photo with the 102 and 103 side by side, facing into the same light, and I'll listen closely Shane (ex technical photographer and photointerpreter) ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:21:24 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Bloody Voss! Message-ID: <37CCB7D4.525B@bellsouth.net> Shane Weier wrote: > Now show me a *single* photo with the 102 and 103 side by side, facing into > the same light, and I'll listen closely Only in this hobby do I appreciate the argument for non-absolutes. Good show Mate! E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:36:28 +0100 From: "Len Smith" To: Subject: Re BIG news suggestions Message-ID: <000201bef43a$72210640$195b08c3@default> I vote for Snow White and the Seven Swabians, singing . Li Lo Li Lo its off to work we go....... lensmith@clara.net http://home.clara.net/lensmith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:39:11 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: CSM DVII Lozenge Message-ID: <19990901053911.62484.qmail@hotmail.com> If you have a scanner and basic photo editing inside lozenge isn't going to be a problem. Scan, reverse, lighten and print. List members not so well endowed ;¬) can have it e-mailed from those that are. Peter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 01:08:56 -0500 From: roguerpj To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Tissue and Reverse Lozenge (Was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge) Message-ID: <37CCC2F8.83B07F66@black-hole.com> Funny you should bring this up. I just got a scanner and was playing with a scan of the Kit decals (waiting for Americal reverse set). I was tempted by the tissue paper poster. How does one attach the paper to the kit? rob johnson PETER LEONARD wrote: > > If you have a scanner and basic photo editing inside lozenge isn't going to > be a problem. Scan, reverse, lighten and print. List members not so well > endowed ;¬) can have it e-mailed from those that are. > > Peter > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- roguerpj "Its not you. My spell checker couldn't figure it out either." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:26:12 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Tissue and Reverse Lozenge (Was:Re: CSM DVII Lozenge) Message-ID: <19990901062612.69901.qmail@hotmail.com> Rob, in this case it wouldn,t have to be tissue or note paper, your regular printer paper will do it. Sticking it to plastic is easy. Place it on the model and splosh Mekpak on it. Sticking it onto a painted surface is a different problem, but pva works fine. For such as the Liberty poster discussed earlier the thinner the paper the better, but I have had some good results from sanding the back of photocopy paper to thin it down a bit. If you use VERY thin paper you may find it necessary to back it with a rectangle of white decal, which kind of defeats the object. As someone has pointed out, the original was paper pasted onto the fabric, so if that's what the result looks like it's a plus. Peter Leonard IPMS UK Lancashire & Cheshire Branch http://www.storks.cwc.net http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com PeterL@cwcom.net ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:04:27 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: w-29's Message-ID: <199909010640.IAA22721@golf.dax.net> Keith > > Matt Bittner has provided an excellent translation of the article and sent > it to me in Microsoft Word format (thanks again Matt!) I can forward this > if Matt has tired of transmitting this to those who've requested it. Now, > if we can just get him to translate the Flashback article! If Matt won't do it I can give it a try. Scan the article or send me a copy and I'll look at it. I'm waiting for a W.33 to finish as a Norwegian machine (as referred to by Knut Erik Hagen in an earlier post), but in the meantime I don't mind learning a bit about the W.29. Tom W > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:02:21 -0700 From: "Chris Banyai-Riepl" To: Subject: Internet Modeler September Issue Message-ID: <001c01bef447$efa42540$455a33d1@chris> Yes, it's that time of the month again, and for a visual treat stop by and check out our own Robert Karr's scratchbuilt Fokker Spinne! There is also a nice piece by Candice Uhlir on building the Aeroclub FE2b. http://www.internetmodeler.com As usual, there's other, off-topic stuff, but we won't mention that. Especially my WAY off topic profiles.... :-) Chris Banyai-Riepl Publisher/Editor Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1826 **********************