WWI Digest 1824 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Decal Voting by James Gibbons 2) Re: N.28 decals. by "Lance Krieg" 3) Re: Mk.IV again by GRBroman@aol.com 4) Re: Voss again by Sharon Henderson 5) Re: RE: BIG news. by "Lance Krieg" 6) DVII Markings by "Bruce Simard" 7) W-29's by "Bruce Simard" 8) Gospel according to St.Harry by Graham Nash 9) Yellow Brisfit was ( Re: Voss again ) by "cameron rile" 10) Re: Yellow Brisfit was ( Re: Voss again ) by "Michael Kendix" 11) Re: Voss again by "DAVID BURKE" 12) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by "DAVID BURKE" 13) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by Albatrosdv@aol.com 14) Re: w-29's by Keith Thompson 15) Re: Warped Wing & Fuselage by Keith Thompson 16) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by David & Carol Fletcher 17) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by Albatrosdv@aol.com 18) Re: D7 ..Point of order Mr Chairman by ERIC HIGHT 19) Re: Yellow Brisfit was ( Re: Voss again ) by Bill Shatzer 20) Re: D7 ..Point of order Mr Chairman by "Lance Krieg" 21) Re: .005 Plastic by "Lance Krieg" 22) Re: Voss again by Sharon Henderson 23) Re: .005 Plastic by "DAVID BURKE" 24) Re: Voss again by "DAVID BURKE" 25) Re: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by GRBroman@aol.com 26) Colour blindness /was: BIG news.& Voss cowling - moving a bit off topic by "Michael Kendix" 27) Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. by Bill Shatzer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:53:12 -0400 From: James Gibbons To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Decal Voting Message-ID: <01BEF396.A517D8C0.jgibbons@vppsa.com> Hey guys, Any chance the decal voting could be taken off-list? My work mail box is getting kind of full of these posts. Thanks, James Gibbons ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:16:17 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: Ern, the LAST thing I want is more children. Unfortunately, I spoke too soon, and what I have is the etched detail set (which is great, by the way). Looks like you'll have to buy Lone Star's, unless you want the Rickenbacker decals from the Glencoe kit. No posters, tho... Sorry, Lance >>> Ernest Thomas 08/30 11:38 PM >>> Lance Krieg wrote: > Please advise and I'll check tonight. Lance, No, I haven't solved the problem yet. I'll have your children if you can spare those decals. E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:25:37 EDT From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Mk.IV again Message-ID: <23189ae3.24fd3fe1@aol.com> In a message dated 8/31/99, 7:08:56 AM, wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu writes: <> Well, it should be either yellow or green. Oops, wrong discussion :). Here's what I did, YMMV. I painted my male Mark IV Testors Field Drab. Why? Well, based on information from Bovington and Brussels,as well as a few other sources I've found while researching the Mark VIII, I thought that Field Drab was the most likely. The Brussels Mark IV has been stored indoors and has not been repainted, there are also surviving paint samples on Industrial sampls from NBLW that specify it was the same shade used to paint the real thing. That wouldm however, only definitively apply to tanks manufactured by the NBLW. I know some may say that colors will fade, etc, but I do not believe that the paint will fundamentaly change color from brown to grey or green. It appears that the camo schemes were gone after 1916. Battleship grey ( I used Aeromaster gunship grey) is also a possible candidate, I did my tadpole in that scheme as most machines never left the UK and that color seemed likely for a test or training machine. I also found a reference in a book on Cambrai by a tanker who said that his "bus" was grey. I've found no definitive (my definition, if anyone has any other info, please let me know) source that a green shade was used after 1916. For my captured German mark IV, I used Feldgrau (Polly S). I based this in Strasheim and Hundleby's research on WW1 German armor. Also, British Khaki is a brown shade, not green, so this may be were some confusion crops in. But other than that, I have no idea what's correct. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:26:39 -0400 From: Sharon Henderson To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Voss again Message-ID: Hi Bill, >half century plus recollections as tomorrow I step one year past the >3/4 century mark. At 76 does that make me senior geezer on the list? Wow, happy birthday a day early! >believe that Voss,face was more his own good luck charm rather than a >flamboyant personal marking such as MvR's Udet et al. My 2 cents worth. :-) But of course, we cannot sell short *VOSS'* own personal flamboyance. >From what I've read, he was a rather shy kid who preferred mucking about with engines (aviation and motorcycle and automotive) to hanging around chatting in the Kasino. BUT, he also had a quirk (didn't they all? ) -- he wore a clean silk shirt into combat every time, just in case he might be shot down. He expected that, should he survive such an occurrance, he would be shipped off to Paris and shown off by the Allies -- and he wanted to have on a nice spiffy silk shirt to impress the Parisian girls. ;-) Still waters run deep? :-) But I like your explanation about gradations of yellow, and I tend to believe there's something in any old-timer's recollection. FWIW, Sharon > >Cheers, > >Bill B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:43:35 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: A couple of observations: >>> ERIC HIGHT says: "the loz will be in sections ie; fuse side, fus top, wing top etc." According to lengthy articles in World War One Aero, there was some considerable variation as to the application of lozenge fabric on the fuselages and even wings, and different manufacturers handled it in different fashions. I would suggest the lozenge be in bolts, rather than panels, to allow for the accurate representation of these differences. Someone else (Peter?) has already pointed out that some of the suggested decals are for four-colored planes, and won't work unless Eric produces that sheet as well. The cowl panels, radiators, props, and engines varied by manufacturer and production run. Shouldn't Eric's decal choice reflect what's in the kit? Or is he planning resin corrections, too? Well, Eric, it looks like CSM is launching a one-man effort to redeem this kit, and it seems to be working... I went out and bought my first one last night! Man, it looks like a LOT of work to straighten this dog out... I'd better find that Fine Scale Modeler article and buy a new set of razor saws. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:45:49 -0500 From: "Bruce Simard" To: Subject: DVII Markings Message-ID: <001001bef3c7$fc362180$db1e8cd0@com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF39D.FD693C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents, My vote has to be for Meyer's Bulldog primary - and the Seven Swabians = second ! ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF39D.FD693C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents,
My vote has to be for Meyer's Bulldog primary - and = the Seven=20 Swabians second !
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF39D.FD693C60-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:02:29 -0500 From: "Bruce Simard" To: "WW1 List" Subject: W-29's Message-ID: <001b01bef3ca$4fc7f380$db1e8cd0@com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEF3A0.51244140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents, I've recently resubscribed to the list, so please pardon my e-mail = etiquitte. But I am working a Toko W-29 at present, and wanted some = input from the group. Per most of the standard references, the later = w-29's were blue-grey with "light" lozenge. But also the dark lozenge = was used, plus mixed and matched. It also seems the early ones were = painted a "sea green" with mixed lozenge. There aren't too many photos = available of war time color schemes or markings. Just for something = "different" I'm leaning towards a "Sea Green" with light lozenge on top, = and dark on the floats. I was just wondering if any in the group have = seen any profiles of this type of scheme, especially if they had = personnel markings on them. TIA , and its great to be back ! ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEF3A0.51244140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents,
I've recently resubscribed to the list, so please = pardon my=20 e-mail etiquitte. But I am working a Toko W-29 at present, and wanted = some input=20 from the group. Per most of the standard references, the later w-29's = were=20 blue-grey with "light" lozenge. But also the dark lozenge was used, plus = mixed=20 and matched. It also seems the early ones were painted a "sea green" = with mixed=20 lozenge. There aren't too many photos available of war time color = schemes or=20 markings. Just for something "different" I'm leaning towards a "Sea = Green" with=20 light lozenge on top, and dark on the floats. I was just wondering if = any in the=20 group have seen any profiles of this type of scheme, especially if they = had=20 personnel markings on them. TIA , and its great to be back=20 !
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEF3A0.51244140-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:18:43 +0100 From: Graham Nash To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Gospel according to St.Harry Message-ID: <37CBF253.EB6CA42@citicorp.com> Further recent postings, a copy of Mr Woodmans' efforts can be found here: WOODMAN, Harry: Scale Model Aircraft in Plastic Card ; 1977 Model & Allied Publications Ltd. 2nd Ed VG in reinforced wraps USD12.00 Mark Killingray, The Bodhran Bookshop, 9 Victoria Road, Saltaire Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD18 3LA England Tel: 01274 530102 Fax: 01274 530102 Email Address: bodhran@legend.co.uk Form of Payment:All EXCEPT amex Returns Policy: within 28 days; Open daily, 11-6 Shipping: Negotiable Home page: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?dealerid=34edf8f87 Lots of luck. Uncle (I've still got it!) Sniffy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 11:45:43 +0300 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Yellow Brisfit was ( Re: Voss again ) Message-ID: <07AE2D02A4D53D1178D900807C9026EF@cameron.prontomail.com> >he had personally painted SE5a's, Camels, Brisfits etc in bright yellow? Apparently C.S Paul and W.J Weir of 1 Sqn AFC painted their Brisfit yellow. It turned up in a captured Turkish order for their troops to take cover upon the arrival of the "yellow British airplane." Havent seen a pic of it though, but it seems the RNZAF have a fair bit of info on Paul, fingers X'ed. If they painted their Brisfit yellow where would the paint have most likely come from? cam Australian Flying Corps http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/PointCook/index.htm ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:56:35 PDT From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Yellow Brisfit was ( Re: Voss again ) Message-ID: <19990831155636.63502.qmail@hotmail.com> >From: "cameron rile" >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:45:17 -0400 (EDT) > >Apparently C.S Paul and W.J Weir of 1 Sqn AFC painted their Brisfit yellow. >It turned up >in a captured Turkish order for their troops to take cover upon the arrival >of the "yellow >British airplane." Havent seen a pic of it though, but it seems the RNZAF >have a fair bit of info >on Paul, fingers X'ed. > Paul: Excellent news! I'm off to paint my Airfix Bristol F.2B "Insignia yellow", except for the cowl of course which will be white, although that's conjectural, but how can anyone call you on it if there's only black & white photos for evidence? Just a tick! Is it possible that the Turks saw a CDL aeroplane that was a bit on the yellow side? You know how that hot desert sun can make you see stuff. Michael "Airbrush loaded and aimed" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:32:46 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Voss again Message-ID: <015f01bef3cf$38bad220$fc81aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Sharon wrote:... .......BUT, he also had a quirk (didn't >they all? ) -- he wore a clean silk shirt into combat every time, >just in case he might be shot down. He expected that, should he >survive such an occurrance, he would be shipped off to Paris and >shown off by the Allies -- and he wanted to have on a nice spiffy >silk shirt to impress the Parisian girls. And if he was killed in the crash? Was he wearing clean underwear when he went into combat? I.E., did he listen to his mother? Although, I'm sure if you were headed down, the drawers would become 'unclean' in short order..... DB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:37:07 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: <016001bef3cf$399e2d40$fc81aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Allow me to chime in too... I vote for a dark green cowling, for the reasons previously stated. The idea that a white/yellow contrast would be that strong - even on orthochromatic film, is beyond me. And what sp said is true too - the only color that would be less visible than white on a yellow cowl would be a lighter yellow. Gosh, this is almost enough to make me consider suffering a huge triplane.... the LAST thing I need to do..... DB -----Original Message----- From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 4:26 AM Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling > > >>Zulis@aol.com wrote: >> - I am definitely a green cowl >>> man. >> >>I'm with you Bud. If for no other reasons than 1) the truth may never be >>known, and more importantly, 2) the white face shows up so much better >>on the green. >>E. > >I have to go with the green cowl too. Green & yellow may reproduce very >close on ortho film, but a white face on a yellow cowl doesn't show up well >in real life especially a few yards away. If I wanted a fierce face on a >yellow cowl, I would have painted the features in black. > >The old mechanic is a puzzler. Did he remember accurately or was the old >geeze asked a leading question? lot of what if's here that just don't >overide the logic stated above. I have to go with green. >StA > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:44:30 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: <37159d88.24fd606e@aol.com> In a message dated 99-08-31 05:26:41 EDT, you write: << I have to go with the green cowl too. Green & yellow may reproduce very close on ortho film, but a white face on a yellow cowl doesn't show up well in real life especially a few yards away. If I wanted a fierce face on a yellow cowl, I would have painted the features in black. The old mechanic is a puzzler. Did he remember accurately or was the old geeze asked a leading question? lot of what if's here that just don't overide the logic stated above. I have to go with green. StA >> This is an example of why it is almost impossible to verify markings information from participants. I have gone round and round on this with WW2 participants. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:35:00 -0400 From: Keith Thompson To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Re: w-29's Message-ID: Welcome aboard, Bruce. I too am a new subscriber and am building the Toko w.29 (along with the MPM, Pegasus & Flashback). The French modeling magazine "Replic", #94 June '99 issue has two articles on building the w.29 - one on the Flashback 1/48 kit and one on the Toko/MPM 1/72 kit(s). The builder did the Toko kit with the blue lozenge on the wings/fuselage and the brown (dark) lozenge on the floats. He built it as Christiansen's 2512, don't know if this is correct or not. The article notes a few deficiencies in the Toko kit, and how to correct them by combining parts from the Toko kit (main problem being not enough upward slant to the fuselage as you go from bough to stern). Matt Bittner has provided an excellent translation of the article and sent it to me in Microsoft Word format (thanks again Matt!) I can forward this if Matt has tired of transmitting this to those who've requested it. Now, if we can just get him to translate the Flashback article! There are also some good color pictures of the w.33 that survives in Finland. I think I am going to build at least one Toko w.29 out of the box without using the MPM fuselage, just because the Toko design makes it easy to attach the wings. Also, Replic magazine can be purchased from Squadron/MMD. They are linked from the ww1 page in the Links section. HTH Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:47:37 -0400 From: Keith Thompson To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Re: Warped Wing & Fuselage Message-ID: Thanks for the advice on flattening these things, guys. Ernie, I think I'll try your method first as I don't think I could tape or rubber band the wing flat enough and strong enough to hold it flat (it's pretty bent). Keith suzkeith@magicnet.net thompsonk@ioa-insurance.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:31:12 -0700 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: <37CC02F6.2BBF@mars.ark.com> Brad Gossen wrote: "I've always thought it was olive which has a high yellow content and can be described by some (colour blind) people as yellow." Brad brings up an interesting point - colour blindness. A fairly large proportion of the male population is colour defective. It is, in fact, the reason for the rejection of a fair number of aircrew candidates - many people do not even know they have a problem until tested. And a lot of them end up as groundcrew painting the aeroplanes! I had a neighbour who was, by profession, an aircraft refinisher. He painted aircraft by the specification number on the can and really didn't know what colours he was applying at all. He painted my car for me and I had to look at the paint and assure him that it was what I wanted - he had previously done touch-up work and never came close to getting the new paint to match the old. I saw a grey and cream Austin, the left side of which he had painted black and white! He painted his wife's kitchen garbage can to "match" the avocado refrigerator and the result looked like like something from a sewage pit. Even for people with "normal" vision, colour memory is the most volatile. I deliberately tested this by asking a number of high-time aircrew what colour the inside of the Canadair Argus was. Only dedicated modellers (like me) had taken the time to actually make a note of it and could answer the question and, even then, trying to describe shades is almost impossible. Red and green colour blindness is among the most common, so the recollections of Voss' mechanic should maybe be cross-referenced to his medical records. If he couldn't see green, he wouldn't remember it as such would he? Sorry about muddying the waters even more... Dave Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:48:52 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: <4bcb430a.24fd6174@aol.com> In a message dated 99-08-31 05:26:41 EDT, you write: << I have to go with the green cowl too. Green & yellow may reproduce very close on ortho film, but a white face on a yellow cowl doesn't show up well in real life especially a few yards away. If I wanted a fierce face on a yellow cowl, I would have painted the features in black. The old mechanic is a puzzler. Did he remember accurately or was the old geeze asked a leading question? lot of what if's here that just don't overide the logic stated above. I have to go with green. StA >> Old Fumble Fingers strikes again - herewith another attempt: As I was saying before I so rudely interrupted myself, the problem with asking the participants about how things looked is that they hardly ever looked at them! And for pilots, to talk about how another airplane looked, you have to be aware of the effect of sky and lighting on what they are seeing. This explains the numberless accounts of pilots shooting down "red" Messerschmitts and "silver and yellow" Focke-Wulfs. The same problem would have existed in WW1. People in combat have other things to worry about than the looks of the plane - they worry whether the engine works or the controls are in rig or whether the guns work, etc., etc. Beyond that, asking the older ones brings up the problem that memory does, indeed fade. This talk of a yellow cowl on Voss' airplane is like the guy who swore to me he shot down a yellow Zero early one morning (grey airplane in early light = yellow Zero). Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:25:02 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: D7 ..Point of order Mr Chairman Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990831112502.006c0ca8@pop.amug.org> bob, udet's is 5 color. it does look that some of the others ie li are 4 color. bottom goes from the tail to the front part of the wing root? doesn't seem to on udet's or li, but not a problem just add alittle more and if not needed can be trimmed. some also seem to have the axel wing covered again not a problem already laid in. eric peter & lance, what a can of worms i opened up!! i'll never learn!! you are both a couple of major trouble makers!! i thought ernie was bad! hadn't thought about panels. clang as the trap shuts. what i need are masters. these would be CHEAP to produce and one hell of a good idea. anyone if you're are interested contact me off list asap. i guess i'll have to do 4 color now also. i am on it today. can't do bolts way too much room. as it stands now it will be 2 8.5 x 11 sheets for each set. as to different application methods i believe that that applies to the wings only? the 2 most common seem to be the chord or 45 degree method. i was ,here i go sticking my head in the trap again, leaning towards the chord method. from what little i've seen it seems to be the most prevelant, but again this is not a big deal as i can do one or the other but not both at this time. (i have to do these in 500 sheet runs). gentlemen/ladies any "comments"? as to crusading WHY NOT! if "we" can make revell change it's mind i say givem hell. if my memory serves correct the 1/28th kits have been in production somewhere since their introduction in 57/59. i can't think of any kit that has come close to lasting this long. somebody likes this scale. for all of us that don't have the eyes to work in god's(right matt)we want more! as to the amount of work, quite a few of my customers have done it and told me it was easy. now i haven't seen any of their work so i have no idea how it looks, but they seem to be happy with it. i think that covers the questions for this round. thanks. eric to all, on voss, the gentleman did not tell me when he talked to the mechanic. this person seems to be up in years. i agree with just about everything that has been said, so when i do my voss tripe i will paint half the cowl yellow and the other half olive. this way it will be like a broken clock at least it is right twice a day! eric I STILL NEED DIMENTIONS FOR THE FUSELAGE HELP! eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:36:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Shatzer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Yellow Brisfit was ( Re: Voss again ) Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Michael Kendix wrote: > Paul: > Excellent news! I'm off to paint my Airfix Bristol F.2B "Insignia yellow", > except for the cowl of course which will be white, although that's > conjectural, but how can anyone call you on it if there's only black & white > photos for evidence? Actually, a fair number of -color- photos of 1 Sqdn AFC aircraft exist. See Windsock Vol. 5, No. 4, (winter, 1989) for a listing of the photos and reprints of three of them. These color photos are currently in the possession of the Australian War Memorial. >Just a tick! Is it possible that the Turks saw a CDL > aeroplane that was a bit on the yellow side? You know how that hot desert > sun can make you see stuff. Certainly a possibility. While no "yellow" F.2B is apparent in the reprinted photos, at least two F2.Bs appear to have either mostly white or CDL upper surfaces (wings and fuselage) with CDL undersides. These aircraft would appear strikingly different from the more usual PC 10 scheme and might be legitimately refered to as "yellow" - especially as the Turkish observers might be more concerned with ducking .303 bullets and Cooper bombs than making accurate color notes. Cheers and all, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:50:38 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: D7 ..Point of order Mr Chairman Message-ID: Eric notes: "as to different application methods i believe that that applies to the wings only? the 2 most common seem to be the chord or 45 degree method." IIRC they are ALL chord-wise applications, but the seam locations varied between Fokker, Alb, OAW. The fuselages are slightly different also, as the fabric envelope layout also varied by manufacturer. This is probably too subtle to worry about. The bottom of the fuselage is in underside fabric from about mid-wing back to the tail. I am a little pedantic about this as I spent most of last winter slaving over an early-production 1/48 Fokker, and in the course of the research ended up reading way more than I wanted of the opinions and evidence available... there's a lot of it, and the Albatros Anthology boils it down pretty well. If you are producing new 1/28 cowl panels, maybe someone should tackle the exhaust pipes, too. Sorry to be a trouble-maker...thats's what happens when you solicit advice. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:55:31 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: .005 Plastic Message-ID: As the estimable Matt Bittner pointed out yesterday, this is available from Evergreen. I stormed into the nearest hobby shop, berating the owners for keeping this important information from me while I scrimped and saved what little I had. They said it had been around for years, and that I was an idiot. I had to agree... Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:55:05 -0400 From: Sharon Henderson To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Voss again Message-ID: >Sharon wrote:... > >.......BUT, he also had a quirk (didn't >>they all? ) -- he wore a clean silk shirt into combat every time, >>just in case he might be shot down. He expected that, should he >>survive such an occurrance, he would be shipped off to Paris and >>shown off by the Allies -- and he wanted to have on a nice spiffy >>silk shirt to impress the Parisian girls. > >And if he was killed in the crash? Was he wearing clean underwear >when he went into combat? I.E., did he listen to his mother? > >Although, I'm sure if you were headed down, the drawers would become >'unclean' in short order..... :-) You know, I've often wondered at the wisdom of such advice.. . as George Carlin once said in a comedy routine: "First you say it -- then you DO it!" :-) As to whether Voss (or any of them!) wore clean underwear into combat, I daresay they did -- that's what one's bursch is for, making sure one's kit is clean. Besides, anyone who bothers to be sure his shirt if clean and silk, is not likely to miss a detail like underwear, when the object is impressing little French lassies. :-) Sharon, Little German Lassie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:04:24 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: .005 Plastic Message-ID: <001a01bef3e4$013cafc0$2d84aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Uhh, yeah, I was gonna mention that I picked some up the other day and that it's available. Sorry that I didn't pipe up and save you from looking like an idiot. DB (the other idiot, and chock full of nature's goodness) -----Original Message----- From: Lance Krieg To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 1:57 PM Subject: Re: .005 Plastic >As the estimable Matt Bittner pointed out yesterday, this is available from Evergreen. > >I stormed into the nearest hobby shop, berating the owners for keeping this important information from me while I scrimped and saved what little I had. They said it had been around for years, and that I was an idiot. > >I had to agree... > >Lance > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:06:56 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Voss again Message-ID: <001b01bef3e4$02061a40$2d84aec7@dora9sprynet.com> >>Sharon wrote:... >> >>.......BUT, he also had a quirk (didn't >>>they all? ) -- he wore a clean silk shirt into combat every time, >>>just in case he might be shot down. He expected that, should he >>>survive such an occurrance, he would be shipped off to Paris and >>>shown off by the Allies -- and he wanted to have on a nice spiffy >>>silk shirt to impress the Parisian girls. >> >>And if he was killed in the crash? Was he wearing clean underwear >>when he went into combat? I.E., did he listen to his mother? >> >>Although, I'm sure if you were headed down, the drawers would become >>'unclean' in short order..... > >:-) You know, I've often wondered at the wisdom of such advice.. >. as George Carlin once said in a comedy routine: "First you say >it -- then you DO it!" :-) > >As to whether Voss (or any of them!) wore clean underwear into combat, >I daresay they did -- that's what one's bursch is for, making sure >one's kit is clean. Besides, anyone who bothers to be sure his shirt >if clean and silk, is not likely to miss a detail like underwear, >when the object is impressing little French lassies. :-) > >Sharon, >Little German Lassie > Point well taken! Dave Big Paddy-O ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:17:14 EDT From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: In a message dated 8/31/99, 1:57:01 PM, wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu writes: <> On the same lines, I have a friend who drove Corsairs in the Navy. He told me that until he started building models he swore they were painted black (gloss navy blue). I was in 1-9 Cav in the 1st Cav Div, I know that my aircrfat had a geometric symbol in a specific color on the door of the airplane. I can't for the life of me remember what is was, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:44:19 PDT From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Colour blindness /was: BIG news.& Voss cowling - moving a bit off topic Message-ID: <19990831194420.78276.qmail@hotmail.com> >From: David & Carol Fletcher >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:48:52 -0400 (EDT) cribed by some (colour blind) people as yellow." > >Brad brings up an interesting point - colour blindness. A fairly large >proportion of the male population is colour defective. It is, in fact, >the reason for the rejection of a fair number of aircrew candidates - >many people do not even know they have a problem until tested. Dave: True enough. My father opted for the RN in WWII and wanted to be a signaller (coloured flags and all that stuff), but when it came time for the book with the coloured dots, his response was "What number?" They offered him the position of "Stoker" but he didn't want to spend the war shovelling coal in hell. He went into the Royal Scots became a communications person and had to lug one of those field radios around for 18 months. Michael ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:50:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Shatzer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Bill Bacon wrote: > Time to stick my neck out one more time. I expect that I am a bit of an expert on > half century plus recolections as tomorrow I step one year past the 3/4 century > mark. At 76 does that make me senior geezer on the list? Back to recollections, > there are events and colors I can remember that happened 50+ years ago. These are > both trivial and important. Age does not in itself preclude accurate memory or > recall. Don't sell Voss' mechanic short. Fair enough. But do recall that prior to the arrival of F.103/17, Timm was servicing Jasta 10's Albatros D.IIIs and Pfalz D.IIIs, most all of which carried the yellow nose markings. Later, when Jasta 10 was re-equipped with Fokker D.VIIs, they likewise usually carried the yellow cowling paint. Some confusion on his part between the nose color of F.103/17 and the likely nose color of every other Jasta 10 aircraft he worked on is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. Timm wasn't, after all, servicing F.103/17 all that long. The aircraft arrived at Jasta 10 sometime late in August or early September (I believe, from memory, the first record of a test flight with Jasta 10 was August 28, 1917). There is no record of the aircraft being used between September 11 and September 23 so presumably Timm was working on other aircraft during that 11 day period. And, of course, Voss was shot down and the aircraft lost on the afternoon of September 23. It appears that Timm was only with this aircraft for, at the most, about 2 weeks (late August through September 11) plus a day or two on or immediately proceeding September 23. Given this relatively brief exposure to F.103/17 compared to the months of servicing other aircraft which -did- have yellow noses, the possibility of confusion on Timm's part is certainly very real - especially a half century or more after the fact. After all, at the time, the color of F.103/17s cowling was not something of any particular importance to Timm. Indeed, until Imrie looked him up and asked the question, I would suspect it was something Timm had never even thought about for decades. Memory is a funny beast. And it plays strange tricks on the best of us. Cheers and all, ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1824 **********************