WWI Digest 1822 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) C&C Rickenbacker Article - Part 3. by John & Allison Cyganowski 2) Re: RE: BIG news. by ERIC HIGHT 3) Re: RE: BIG news. by "Courtney Allen" 4) Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily unsubbing by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 5) RE: Scratchbuilding wings in 1/72 scale by Shane Weier 6) Re: N.28 decals. by Ernest Thomas 7) Re: RE: BIG news. by Bill Shatzer 8) RE: RE: BIG news. by Shane Weier 9) Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. by Shane Weier 10) Re: Warped Wing & Fuselage by Ernest Thomas 11) RE: Zen and the Art of Plastic Modelling by "PETER LEONARD" 12) RE: Zen and the Art of Plastic Modelling by Shane Weier 13) Re: RE: BIG news. Voss Mechanic by "PETER LEONARD" 14) Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily by REwing@aol.com 15) Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily unsubbing by REwing@aol.com 16) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by Zulis@aol.com 17) Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling by Ernest Thomas 18) Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. by Bill Shatzer 19) Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily unsubbing by REwing@aol.com 20) BIG news suggestions by Ernest Thomas 21) Next choice for voting by Ernest Thomas 22) Stag by Ernest Thomas 23) Jacobs by Ernest Thomas 24) Jasta 18 Ravens by Ernest Thomas 25) LUDE by Ernest Thomas 26) Swabians by Ernest Thomas 27) NASM 'U,10' by Ernest Thomas 28) Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. by "PETER LEONARD" 29) Re: LUDE by "PETER LEONARD" 30) Re: BIG news. by "Bob Pearson" 31) Re: NASM 'U,10' by "PETER LEONARD" 32) Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. by "Sandy Adam" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:14:30 -0400 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: C&C Rickenbacker Article - Part 3. Message-ID: <37CB3A86.59A9@worldnet.att.net> This implies that the last 20 victories were won on SPADs, unless one assumes the retention of a few Nieuports after conversion. This assumption is patently ridiculous, for not only would the Nieuport be outclassed in September, but Rickenbacker was on of the most ardent supporters of the plan to re-equip with SPADs. The classic loss of the Nieuport top wing fabric had led to his risking court-martial to “steal” a SPAD for the 94th. [6] At that time Rickenbacker was not a Squadron Commander, so the regulation that the C.O. fly the plane marked “0” did not apply to his plane. Since planes were to be numbered consecutively upon arrival [7], his “stolen” SPAD was given the number “1.” Thus we see that “Old #1” was around during the period of the 20 victories and that these are probably all SPAD victories. Only two references were located which imply some other distribution of victories. The first is in the 1965 edition of “Fighting the Flying Circus”, where a photo caption [8] reads, “Eddie Rickenbacker in the cockpit of his Nieuport; he scored 12 victories in this machine.” There are three possible explanations: (a) the caption is in error, (b) the caption includes unconfirmed victories, and (c) the breakdown between SPAD and Nieuport given above is faulty. The second reference was in a World War II magazine-format paperback [9] which claimed there were 9 unconfirmed victories in addition to the 26 confirmed ones; which would naturally tend to support explanation (b) above. To reach a final decision, it was obvious that the individual mission debriefing reports for all of Rickenbacker’s flights would have to be consulted. Gorell [10] contained copies of a large number of these (including all those on which claims were entered whether later confirmed or not). A total of 42 of Rickenbacker’s missions involved contact with enemy aircraft or balloon attacks. Squadron records indicate that Rickenbacker is credited with 50 “combats” -- the definition of this is vague, but some missions in which more than one encounter took place are known to have been considered to be more than one combat. I thus believe I have read the reports of all 50 combats. They breakdown as follows: Missions Claims Confirmed Claims Unconfirmed Nieuport (April-June) 14 6 0 Transition (July) 2 0 1 SPAD (Through 23 Sept.) 10 2 2 SPAD (24 Sept. to 11 Nov.) 16 18 0 The reason for differentiating between the pre-24 September and the later SPAD missions is that all pilot report forms commencing with 24 September indicate Hispano-Suiza SPAD as the type of plane used. From April through June, this portion of the report is usually blank, but occasionally indicates Monosoupape Nieuport. For the period 1 July-23 September, it is blank on all Rickenbacker missions and only rarely filled in for other pilots. With Rickenbacker’s assumption of command (25 September), there is a marked improvement in these forms. While I believe no Nieuports were in use in August and September, it seems only fair to point out the possibility. Regardless of the interpretation of the period 1 July-23 September, the photo caption and the Runyon-Kiernan paperback are obviously in error. Only three unconfirmed claims were made -- so 9 unconfirmed victories is obviously impossible. Even if all confirmed and unconfirmed victories form April through 23 September are totaled, one cannot find 12 victories for a single Nieuport -- 11 is the most that one can believe. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the 18 kill claim for SPAD #4523, and for such extensive use of this SPAD that Rickenbacker would not remember the few missions in another ship. [11] [6] “Fighting the Flying Circus”, Chapter 19 [7] See Cross & Cockade Journal, Vol. 5, No. 2, Summer 1964, p. 145. However, note that the presence of two #1 planes indicates compliance was not strictly enforced. [8] Photo #8 facing p. 83. [9] “The Life Story of Captain Eddie Rickenbacker”, by Damon Runyon and Walter Kiernan, Dell Publishing Company, 1942. [10] Vol. E-12. {End Part 3 - Cyg.} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:27:14 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990830202714.006867d8@pop.amug.org> courtney, the loz will be in sections ie; fuse side, fus top, wing top etc. these will be oversized for trimming. so on a coreected fuselage you would have a little more to trim off. on the markings let's take the lo (or any other fuselage side markings) on udets fuselage, you would get two, one that looks proptionaly right for either the corrected or uncorrected build up. all other markings crosses numbers etc. would be the same. this covers both builders pretty well. to whoever asked about the bullet hole covers not a problem. would 5-10 be enough? eric brad, i currently have jacobs tripe markings along with voss' and for the spad i have luke's and rickenbacker's. for the camel i have rodney williams and otto kissenberth which should be ready about the same time as the loz and d.vii markings. rondels etc. fall into the same catagory as serials and crosses, unfortunatly not finacialy sound. same goes for olive streaking i feel the best way to do that is with paint, either dry brushing or a modification of that process. thanks for the suggestions i see some some possiblities. eric matt yes we have been through this before. now i offered you FREE guage faces for a sase and got no response!! tom's photo cut and maney others produce what you have asked for. i can't afford to produce products that don't sell or pay for themselves in a relitively quick amount of time. this is how i make my living it is my only source of income. i hate to the bearer of bad news but i don't want to live under the overpass at the end of the street. the offer still stands. eric to all, i got a letter from a gentleman who claims he talked to voss' mechanic,(the person who painted all his a/c) and he states the mechanic says the cowl was "chrome yellow" maybe one of the great mysteries of wwi paint schemes has been solved?! believe it or not. food for thought. the seems sincere. eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:52:20 -0700 From: "Courtney Allen" To: Subject: Re: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: <000f01bef364$3af0eea0$db73480c@courtney> Eric The D VII sheet sounds great. It will definitely try one. The sheet will make the corrections worth the effort. Regarding the Voss cowling - "High in the Empty Sky" (History of 56 Squadron) by Alex Revell shows color markings for the Voss Triplane with a yellow cowling. He references Alex Imrie of the opinion that by 9/23/17 the cowling would have been painted yellow , the Jasta 10 ID color. Courtney ----- Original Message ----- From: ERIC HIGHT To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 8:31 PM Subject: Re: RE: BIG news. > courtney, > the loz will be in sections ie; fuse side, fus top, wing top etc. these > will be oversized for trimming. so on a coreected fuselage you would have > a little more to trim off. on the markings let's take the lo (or any other > fuselage side markings) on udets fuselage, you would get two, one that > looks proptionaly right for either the corrected or uncorrected build up. > all other markings crosses numbers etc. would be the same. this covers > both builders pretty well. to whoever asked about the bullet hole covers > not a problem. would 5-10 be enough? > eric > > brad, > i currently have jacobs tripe markings along with voss' and for the spad i > have luke's and rickenbacker's. for the camel i have rodney williams and > otto kissenberth which should be ready about the same time as the loz and > d.vii markings. rondels etc. fall into the same catagory as serials and > crosses, unfortunatly not finacialy sound. same goes for olive streaking i > feel the best way to do that is with paint, either dry brushing or a > modification of that process. thanks for the suggestions i see some some > possiblities. > eric > > matt > yes we have been through this before. now i offered you FREE guage faces > for a sase and got no response!! tom's photo cut and maney others produce > what you have asked for. i can't afford to produce products that don't > sell or pay for themselves in a relitively quick amount of time. this is > how i make my living it is my only source of income. i hate to the bearer > of bad news but i don't want to live under the overpass at the end of the > street. the offer still stands. > eric > > to all, > i got a letter from a gentleman who claims he talked to voss' mechanic,(the > person who painted all his a/c) and he states the mechanic says the cowl > was "chrome yellow" maybe one of the great mysteries of wwi paint schemes > has been solved?! believe it or not. food for thought. > the seems sincere. > eric > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:46:35 -0700 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily unsubbing Message-ID: <37CBF8DB.5F05@ricochet.net> REwing@aol.com wrote: > > I would like to volunteer and, since I live just a few miles north of > you, shipping costs won't be a problem. I'll just come down and get the > items. Up to the rest of the group. Well, this seems like it might be the easiest (and least expensive) transfer of the library's holdings (where do you live Rick?), but if Mr. Perry also still wants to be the next librarian, perhaps you two gents can hash it out. Failing that, perhaps water pistols at ten paces... :) Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:27:01 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: RE: Scratchbuilding wings in 1/72 scale Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475A9B@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Diego suggests: > I've been following this thread very closely since I've been trying to > scratchbuild wings for my 1/72 Alb DII. Can I add my 2 > argentine cents? > One cent: I scanned the drawings from the datafile. Then, using Adobe > photoshop, I erased everything but the wings. I made a > "mirrored" copy of it > and pasted opposed by the leading edge against the first one, > with a little > space between leading edges. I printed this on clear acetate > film, making > several copies "just in case". I made the same with the > bottom wings, but I > joined both halves at the middle. The I scribed and skinned this clear > acetate just like Woodman said over a shaped plastic core. > Finished chord > extends a little farther than the printed wing. For the > bottom wings, I cut > it on the center line after skinning but before painting. the > clear acetate > is a little harder & brittle than plastic card, be careful > when doing the > wingtips (I'm not too satisfied with mines) but enough > pliable to do the > work. I used super glue to join the trailing edges & aileron cutouts. > the other cent: I scribed the wings using the double forked > ink carrier from > an old compass. Authenthic looking rib locations. This looks promising - a merging of HW method and acetate film a la Joey Valenciano. One warning though. Be really carefull of the Datafile plans. Some (at least) are not symettrical where they should be - an example which almost caught me is the W.4 mini datafile. In these cases you may need to erase one half of the wing, make a flipped copy and rejoin them, then flip on the LE to make the full envelope. I must be a crusty old traditionalist. I still like Harry's way. But this idea looks a like natural extension Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:37:30 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: N.28 decals. Message-ID: <37CB5C0A.CBE@bellsouth.net> Lance Krieg wrote: > Please advise and I'll check tonight. Lance, No, I haven't solved the problem yet. I'll have your children if you can spare those decals. E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:41:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Shatzer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Courtney Allen wrote: > Eric > The D VII sheet sounds great. It will definitely try one. The sheet will > make the corrections worth the effort. > Regarding the Voss cowling - "High in the Empty Sky" (History of 56 > Squadron) by Alex Revell shows color markings for the Voss Triplane with a > yellow cowling. He references Alex Imrie of the opinion that by 9/23/17 the > cowling would have been painted yellow , the Jasta 10 ID color. In opposition, however, it should be noted that F.103/17 was only "attached" to Jasta 10 and was not formally included "on strength". Whether an "attached" aircraft would receive the Jasta markings is something of an open question. In addition, the British "crash report" of Voss's triplane, by the delightfully named Lieutenant Barfoot-Saunt, makes no mention of a yellow cowling despite an extensive recital of the colors of the aircraft - including noting the particular "slanted" application of the streaked camouflage pattern on the wings. The comments of Karl Timm, Voss's mechanic with Jasta 10, to the effect that F.103/17 had a yellow cowling came in an interview with Imrie sometime in the late '70's or early 80's. While certainly Timm's recollections should not be cavalierly dismissed, the recollections of a 70 or 80 year-old man more than half a century after the fact should be treated with a least a bit of suspicion. I've talked to world war two pilots who profess to have no idea how -their- aircraft were painted. Cheers and all, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:47:16 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475A9D@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Eric notes: > > to all, > > i got a letter from a gentleman who claims he talked to voss' > > mechanic,(the person who painted all his a/c) and he states > > the mechanic says the cowl was "chrome yellow" maybe one > > of the great mysteries of wwi paint schemes > > has been solved?! believe it or not. food for thought. > > the seems sincere. Not meaning any disrespect, but if all the people who'd "spoken to Voss' mechanic" had actually spoken to *any* mechanic, there'd still recently have been enough Dr.I mechs alive to rebuild the 150+ Richtoffen Dr.I from the many thousands of "genuine" pieces still in circulation. OTOH I'm inclined to credit Alex Imrie's opinion that the cowl *was* probably painted yellow despite the fact that he disagrees with me :-( Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:53:04 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475A9E@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Bill, > In opposition, however, it should be noted that F.103/17 was > only "attached" to Jasta 10 and was not formally included > "on strength". Whether an "attached" aircraft would receive > the Jasta markings is something of an open question. > (snip rest of discussion) Hooray! These are also my arguments (and have we been here before ;-) I'm also inclined to wonder why anyone would use such a gormless combination as white and yellow. Surely he'd have used a contrasting colour for the detail? But....Imrie is the expert, not me. Therefor when *I* build my Voss F.1 I'll quote the WW1 historian Bill Shatzer as my authority instead ! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:59:09 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Warped Wing & Fuselage Message-ID: <37CB611D.38C9@bellsouth.net> Keith Thompson wrote: > Can anyone provide > specifics of this process? Keith, I found the DML kits to have chronic problems with bent wings. Here's how I straightend em out; Boil the water, then take it off the fire and pour it in whatever container you have that will allow you to submerge the entire piece. Drop the part in the water and let it sit for one minute. Take it out and bend it back into shape. I just eyeballed it. Once you have it straight, hold it under cold water from the tap. If it's still not straight enough, repeat the process. Good luck. E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:11:35 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Zen and the Art of Plastic Modelling Message-ID: <19990831051136.58590.qmail@hotmail.com> Shane, my overnight thoughts exactly (are we related?) I shall e-mail Nexus along those lines to-day. I've only seen Harry Woodman (Alah preserve his name) at a distance and, I agree, unsolicited mail, is not the best way to approach this. But if all else fails a reader's letter to Windsock may be an option, just to sew the seed and maybe prompt some supportive replies. He is a contributor and has responded to a letter of mine before through the readers page. I know it's a long shot and I don't seriously expect a result, but, as granny always said, "them that don't ask don't get". Peter Leonard IPMS UK Lancashire & Cheshire Branch http://www.storks.cwc.net http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com PeterL@cwcom.net >From: Shane Weier >Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: RE: Zen and the Art of Plastic Modelling >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:56:50 -0400 (EDT) > >Peter, > > > It is apparent that many list members have "Scale Model Aircraft in > > Plastic Card" by Harry Woodman (Alah preserve His name) and > > that others > > wish they had. my own copy is completly shagged and in dire need of > > replacement. Now, if I had the publishers e-mail address I could start > > my own spam campaign. Anybody have it? Anybody game? > >Well, the book was published by Model and Allied Pubs / Argus Books, >publishers of Scale Models at the time. I can only guess that the >inheritors >of that publishers properties is Nexus, but also assume that, since >copyright is certain to still be Harry's this should be a two pronged >effort. > >One - write to Nexus asking if they still have the rights (or whatever) and >suggesting they might reprint the book at some point given its rarity and >desirability > >Two - write to HW himself. I haven't personally had any contact, but I'm >sure some of the Blighty members have met him. In any case, the people I >know who *have* corresponded with him have led me to believe that he's >quite >approachable though I *don't* think a blitz of unsolicited mail would be >the >best way to get his support. Better if someone who's met him through >modelling or C&C sees if he's willing to give the publishers a shove. > >I for one, would buy several copies - mine is utterly buggered, and I use a >photocopy while the original sits in a ziplock bag, dogeared and with its >spine all broken. Never again - I need a copy for the bench, and the shelf, >and the travelling case and to allow at least one to be stolen..... > >Yikes !! It just occurs to me that the book is *nearly* 25 years old. >Maybe >it should be an anniversary edition with a foreward from St Harry noting >the >changes in the hobby wrought since this book appeared. > >************************************************************** >The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential >and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). >If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution >or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are >requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems >to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. >E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. >************************************************************** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:22:14 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Zen and the Art of Plastic Modelling Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD475A9F@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Peter, > Shane, my overnight thoughts exactly (are we related?) Sure. Both members of the ww1 list family. > I shall e-mail Nexus > along those lines to-day. I've only seen Harry Woodman (Alah > preserve his > name) at a distance and, I agree, unsolicited mail, is not > the best way to > approach this. But if all else fails a reader's letter to > Windsock may be an > option, just to sew the seed and maybe prompt some supportive > replies. He is > a contributor and has responded to a letter of mine before > through the readers page. I'll write the letter to RLR if no-one else has beaten me to it. > I know it's a long shot and I don't seriously expect a > result, but, as > granny always said, "them that don't ask don't get". Mine too. Hey we *are* related ! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:35:59 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: RE: BIG news. Voss Mechanic Message-ID: <19990831053600.37224.qmail@hotmail.com> Just to be a doubting Thomas. That mechanic would have to be well over 100 years old. If he's been around that long just what have Imrie and Co been doing all this time? Peter Leonard IPMS UK Lancashire & Cheshire Branch http://www.storks.cwc.net http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com PeterL@cwcom.net ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:42:28 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily Message-ID: <49aa7b16.24fcb734@aol.com> Thanks Dennis. Another thing is that when Riordan comes back, it won't cost anything to send back! -Rick- << Rick, This part of the group votes aye. >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:39:08 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily unsubbing Message-ID: <752ee06b.24fcb66c@aol.com> Thanks for the support Mike. -Rick- << Rick Sounds good to me! Mike Muth >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:51:06 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: <37154e0.24fcb93a@aol.com> << > Regarding the Voss cowling - "High in the Empty Sky" (History of 56 > Squadron) by Alex Revell shows color markings for the Voss Triplane with a > yellow cowling. He references Alex Imrie of the opinion that by 9/23/17 the > cowling would have been painted yellow , the Jasta 10 ID color. >> About a year ago, before subscribing here, I spent a month poring over the archives and I recall a very long discussion of this topic, with many sources quoted and photos referenced. It was so well done that it might be worth searching for that, though I am certainly not trying to dissuade you from raising the question again. Speaking for myself, after reading all that material and looking at the surviving b&w pics - I am definitely a green cowl man. Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:54:25 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news.& Voss cowling Message-ID: <37CB6E11.1D1F@bellsouth.net> Zulis@aol.com wrote: - I am definitely a green cowl > man. I'm with you Bud. If for no other reasons than 1) the truth may never be known, and more importantly, 2) the white face shows up so much better on the green. E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:01:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Shatzer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Shane Weier wrote: > But....Imrie is the expert, not me. Therefor when *I* build my Voss F.1 I'll > quote the WW1 historian Bill Shatzer as my authority instead ! Careful, Shane. I ain't claiming it -wasn't- yellow; jest that I'm less convinced that it was yellow than Imrie seems to be. Imrie makes a logical argument but it basically stands or falls on the accuracy of Timm's recollection. I have less faith in that half-century old recollection than Imrie does. Cheers and all, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:08:09 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: List librarian (regretfully) resigning / temporarily unsubbing Message-ID: Hi Riordan, I'm just south of Sacramento (Elk Grove). It would only take about 1.5-2 hours to get down to your neck of the woods. Then I can go on over to San Antonio and check out the stock over there. As far as the water pistols go, I plan to use some "saturation bombing" (water balloons!). Let me know what you decide. -Rick- Well, this seems like it might be the easiest (and least expensive) transfer of the library's holdings (where do you live Rick?), but if Mr. Perry also still wants to be the next librarian, perhaps you two gents can hash it out. Failing that, perhaps water pistols at ten paces... :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:15:12 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: BIG news suggestions Message-ID: <37CB72F0.4A4D@bellsouth.net> Ok Folks, Here's the sugestions we've had so far; Stark's 'Li' Meyer's Jasta 4 Bull Dog Windisch's/Degelow's Stag Jacobs Jasta 18 'Raven' von Hippel's 'LUDE' Swabians NASM 'U,10' However, there's nothing conclusive here as far as what would be the most popular. So let's try a different approach. How's about a vote. I'll offer the choices individually for voting. You can vote for more than one, but you can't vote twice for the same thing. Fair enough? After I've got all the votes tallied, I'll forward them on to Eric and he can either give in to peer pressure and make those markings, or tell us all to go hug a root and make whatever he thinks will be the best business decision for him. And remember, if you don't vote, you don't have the right to bitch about the results. So for starters, all in favor of Stark's 'Li', say eye, or aye, or I. Cast your votes now. Thanks, E. 'It's not easy having a good time. Even smiling makes my face ache.' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:16:54 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Next choice for voting Message-ID: <37CB7356.6888@bellsouth.net> All in favor of Meyer's Bull Dog? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:17:46 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Stag Message-ID: <37CB738A.5135@bellsouth.net> All in favor of Windisch's/Degelow's 'Stag'? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:18:20 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Jacobs Message-ID: <37CB73AC.6EFE@bellsouth.net> All in favor of Jacob's D-VII? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:19:01 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Jasta 18 Ravens Message-ID: <37CB73D5.6861@bellsouth.net> All in favor of Jasta 18 Ravens? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:19:38 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: LUDE Message-ID: <37CB73FA.3570@bellsouth.net> All in favor of von Hippel's 'LUDE'? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:20:19 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Swabians Message-ID: <37CB7423.4E4D@bellsouth.net> All in favor of the Seven Swabians? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:21:10 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: NASM 'U,10' Message-ID: <37CB7456.4087@bellsouth.net> All in favor of the NASM 'U,10'? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:24:12 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: <19990831062413.87218.qmail@hotmail.com> If this is a referendum put me down for green. None of 56 Squadrons combat reports mention yellow at any point, several mention the Albatros also engaged as green. Pilots were expected to include this sort of detail in combat reports for intelligence purposes and none did. Not proof I admit, but an indication. Peter Leonard IPMS UK Lancashire & Cheshire Branch http://www.storks.cwc.net http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com PeterL@cwcom.net ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:28:41 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: LUDE Message-ID: <19990831062841.20383.qmail@hotmail.com> aye!!!!!!!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:32:23 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: BIG news. Message-ID: <199908310639.XAA30837@mail.rapidnet.net> Eric writes . . > it will be 5 color upper & lower to start. Uh, AFAIK all the aircraft discussed so far are in four-colour, not five-colour lozenge. Of all the D.VIIs I have profiled so far only one was in five colour. Of course I could be wrong - it has been at least two years since I last did a D.VII (although I am working on some new ones soon). > as to prop decals i could put more than one brand on the markings sheet. I have done some prop markings as well, and have refernces to so the others. > i will need referance for anything other than axial. i would not be > opposed to say an axial and a geruda germania etc. as long as i have > referance for it. so have at it and let me know. > > bob, > i would be very interested in seeing what you have for the 4 color, stag & > jacobs d.vii. let me know what we need to do to get hooked up. I'll be in touch off list about these . . suffice it to say they are good enough for FMP ... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:38:41 PDT From: "PETER LEONARD" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: NASM 'U,10' Message-ID: <19990831063841.45158.qmail@hotmail.com> aye with knobs on!!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:04:03 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Voss again WAS: RE: BIG news. Message-ID: <006c01bef387$7be089c0$26e8b094@sandyada> I'm in exact accordance with you on that, Bill (for once!) - still wouldn't it be nice to find some centenarian RFC mechanic in a retirment home somewhere who would swear that what we had thought was PC-10 was actually orthochromatically reproduced chrome yellow and he had personally painted SE5a's, Camels, Brisfits etc in bright yellow? Sandy >Careful, Shane. I ain't claiming it -wasn't- yellow; jest that I'm >less convinced that it was yellow than Imrie seems to be. > >Imrie makes a logical argument but it basically stands or falls >on the accuracy of Timm's recollection. I have less faith in >that half-century old recollection than Imrie does. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1822 **********************