WWI Digest 1727 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Something to knock your socks off! by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 2) Re: Search Engine by Tom Solinski 3) Re: further on the future of the hobby..... by "Arron Monroe" 4) Re: Americal Listing by "Arron Monroe" 5) Re: exactitude by REwing@aol.com 6) Re: exactitude by "Bob Pearson" 7) Re: PC-12 - makes of aeroplanes and serial numbers/ was: The by "Bob Pearson" 8) RE: Paint storage by "Landon, James D" 9) Re: exactitude by KarrArt@aol.com 10) Re: Something to knock your socks off! by peter crow 11) Re: Judging by "Bill Neill" 12) Re: Judging by "roguerpj" 13) Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by bucky@ptdprolog.net 14) Re: Judging by bucky@ptdprolog.net 15) Re: exactitude & aerial photos by bucky@ptdprolog.net 16) air brush question by bucky@ptdprolog.net 17) Re: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] by "roguerpj" 18) Re: Judging by Albatrosdv@aol.com 19) RE: Judging by "Landon, James D" 20) Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by Matthew E Bittner 21) Re: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] by Zulis@aol.com 22) Re: PC-12 - makes of aeroplanes and serial numbers/ was: The by mkendix 23) Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by Brent & Tina Theobald 24) Re: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] by "roguerpj" 25) Modelers vs Historians by Brent & Tina Theobald 26) Re: further on the future of the hobby..... by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 27) French Triplanes (was Re: PC-12 - blah, blah, blah) by "Bob Pearson" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:23:17 -0500 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Something to knock your socks off! Message-ID: >>Go to this URL and take a look. A scratchbuilt Curtiss SOC-1 Seagull, at the >>IPMS-USA Nats. It's a biplane, so it is sort of OT, but jeez - what great >>work!! I should be so lucky as to have my Wings 48 vac SOC turn out this nice. Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:12:59 -0500 From: Tom Solinski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Search Engine Message-ID: <3798DADB.FB8BA343@ionet.net> > Northern Lights is commonly considered the best search engine around right > now, with access to about 65% of the net. The big problem is the net is > growing faster than the search engines, but NL does seem to keep up better. > I've used it now for about 18 months and hardly ever use Yahoo or the others. have you folks tried web ferret out of England? It searches the search engines. It's how I found the WW-I list Tom Solinski ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:07:17 -0400 From: "Arron Monroe" To: Subject: Re: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <001e01bed557$bb283cc0$afa15f18@arron.twcny.rr.com> I wish that would happen more often. Any of the events I have been to I found it very discouraging to the junior modelers. The events that I have been to the junior were last in announcing the winners and by the time the judges were announcing the junior winners all of the adults had pretty much up and left. I always felt bad for the junior entrants as they had stuck it through the adult judging but few adults seemed to be there to celebrate with them. AM -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schwartzkopf To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 8:21 AM Subject: Re: further on the future of the hobby..... >>>What bothered me was the way other members of the club went about the >>>critiqueing a young (new) modeler. It is tough on a child at 9 years of age, >>>they are proud of what they have accomplished and look for some kind of >>>recognition not belittling. > >Very well said. I have judged many Junior categories, and believe it or not, they are absolutely the hardest to judge. You have to go back in time to remember yourself at that age, and what your skills were at that time. I never once have belittled our younger modelers for their efforts. I look at all models with the attitude that I can learn something positive (about modeling) from each one I judge. > >Years ago, when Hobby Town was smaller, somewhat decent, and not as money-hungry, our IPMS club judged their local contests. Each Junior entry received a ribbon--you should have seen the faces on some of those five year olds when they saw it. > >Paul A. Schwartzkopf > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:08:59 -0400 From: "Arron Monroe" To: Subject: Re: Americal Listing Message-ID: <002501bed557$f7af89a0$afa15f18@arron.twcny.rr.com> I too would be interested. Please contact me off list on how I could get a copy, amonroe1@twcny.rr.com Thanks AM -----Original Message----- From: James Gibbons To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 9:10 AM Subject: Americal Listing >I seem to recall that someone had a scanned or text version of Americals >catalog they offered to send to folks. I'm hoping to get a copy as I would >like to place an order with Mr. Merrill shortly. 56 Squadron and Lafayette >Escadrille here I come... > >If you have this listing I would appreciate it if you could send a copy to >my home address at zouave7@aol.com > >Thanks in advance! > >Sincerely, > >James L. Gibbons > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:22:33 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: exactitude Message-ID: I think it was Peter Grosz (Bob, Bill, Bill, Eric, et. al.?) that did a great seminar about these photos at the Over the Front conference in Phoenix last year. He went step by step on how these photos were debunked. Even though they were suspect from day one, there were a number of veteran pilots that supported them as factual. A very interesting and intriguing story. -Rick- << Well, not really "a number". The Cockburn-Lang photos are pretty notorious and were suspect from the time they were first published in 1932 although it did take a bit of time to -prove- they were fakes. If I recall, the creator of the photos eventually came forward and 'fessed up. There are undoubtably a few other fake photos around but probably not many. There is, after all, little commercial incentive to engage in such trickery. The Cockburn-Lange photos were sold as "the only photos showing actual WW1 air-to-air combat" but a photo trumpeted as (for instance) "the only photo showing Voss's D-III with a central radiator" doesn't have quite the same commercial appeal. The claim for the Cockburn-Lange photos was inaccurate in any case. Guynemer (and probably others) actually took some aerial combat photos. Not surprisingly however, they tend to be grainy, misfocused, with mediocre contrast and not a third as impressive as the carefully staged Cockburn-Lange fakes. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:30:25 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: exactitude Message-ID: <199907232236.PAA02883@mail.rapidnet.net> Yup, 'twas Peter Grosz who gave the talk on Cockburn-Lange in his own inimitable style .. and also provided a possible explanation on the name. ... suffice it to say it would hurt :-( Bob ---------- >From: REwing@aol.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: exactitude >Date: Fri, Jul 23, 1999, 3:26 PM > > I think it was Peter Grosz (Bob, Bill, Bill, Eric, et. al.?) that did a > great seminar about these photos at the Over the Front conference in Phoenix > last year. He went step by step on how these photos were debunked. Even > though they were suspect from day one, there were a number of veteran pilots > that supported them as factual. A very interesting and intriguing story. > -Rick- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:12:36 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: PC-12 - makes of aeroplanes and serial numbers/ was: The Message-ID: <199907232336.QAA04718@mail.rapidnet.net> > Apparently, according to Bob Pearson, many of these had French markings > and were numbered 1-18 (on the fuselage, I presume, not their serials). > Also, Bob said that it was known that many Sopwith Triplanes were PC12 > but it is not known which ones. These 18 were French Triplanes and were used by a naval unit based at Dunkerque. I would love to know what they thought of them ... sadly nothing has turned up yet. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:39:29 -0600 From: "Landon, James D" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Paint storage Message-ID: <98B98E951BA0D1119A590000F8045A47030A3066@emss02m05.ems.lmco.com> <> Yes, as Diego said, Lee that is a really great idea. In my haste to butt in on the conversation earlier, I was thinking only of purchased colors. Which was silly of me, because back when I used to do oil paintings I made up sample swatches of all possible combinations (okay, MOST combinations) of all (okay, MOST of) the colors of oil paint available. Within each 2" X 2" square on the canvas I varied the ratio of the two or three colors, and also added white in varying amounts. Below each square are the abbreviations for the colors mixed in that square. Unfortunately those half dozen 18 X 24 canvasses containing the color swatches are the best oil paintings I ever did. Jim > ---------- > From: Lee J Mensinger > Reply To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 12:13 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Paint storage > > A problem, "evolves" in that many people have over the years developed > mixtures > which they find more to their lioking. > > For these the solution is obvious. Label the bottle. Cheap, Easy and if > you > are bright enought to get "easy off labels" the whole thing is super > simple. I > also punch a hole in file cards, airbrush the end of the card that has the > hole, so the paint enters the hole. I then put the formula for the paint > on > the 4X5 card and file it. > > Why the hole in the card. I can hold it over the paint I wish to match > and > when the hole dissappears , or close to it, I am where I want to be. > > I have a nice file box for the cards and I kept it simple. With > appropriate > colors on the tabs dividing the colors and the shades get darker from > front to > back. Have about 90 shades. > > Label the bottle the same as the shade. Lee > > "Landon, James D" wrote: > > > <<...This way I look straight at the labels...>> > > > > I wondered when somebody was going to say that. That's how I have mine. > > When a wonderful label is provided on the front, why is everybody trying > to > > find the best way to label the top? > > > > Jim, just now reading what came in overnight, pardon the intrusion > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Tom Solinski > > > Reply To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:01 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > Subject: Re: Paint storage > > > > > > Bill and team(?) Oh, TEAMS (you know us and them) > > > > > > I made a spray booth out of a free standing wardrobe (I can't spell > > > armoire) I used 1-1/2 'L" angle aluminum extrusion for shelving. > It's > > > just wide enough for a testors type paint bottle and relatively > > > inexpensive. This way I look straight at the labels, and of course > the > > > shelves are arranged in FS 595 numerical order, Unless they are > > > arranged by ot nationality. > > > Clear as FS 36118, right? > > > > > > Tom Solinski > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:51:00 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: exactitude Message-ID: <8b90f9b8.24ca59e4@aol.com> In a message dated 7/23/99 3:31:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bpearson@kaien.com writes: << and also provided a possible explanation on the name. .. suffice it to say it would hurt :-( Bob >> interesting theory....YEEEOOUCH Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:59:05 -0400 (EDT) From: peter crow To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Something to knock your socks off! Message-ID: <19990723235905.8471.rocketmail@web701.mail.yahoo.com> --- Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > Go to this URL and take a look. A scratchbuilt > Curtiss SOC-1 Seagull, at the > IPMS-USA Nats. It's a biplane, so it is sort of OT, > but jeez - what great > work!! Absolutely outstanding... would love to see some different angle shots of this.. Thanks for URL.. P. Crow _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:03:02 -0700 From: "Bill Neill" To: Subject: Re: Judging Message-ID: <005101bed569$cdf943a0$1c14c0d8@bill> Purely hypothetical.... Can we do a virtual WW1 contest, like a peoples choice based on what's on the WW1 photo site? Bill Neill > > Sounds like a gauntlet has been laid down. > > What about it, guys? Maybe get together and discuss it at next > > years' regional? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:39:47 -0500 From: "roguerpj" To: Subject: Re: Judging Message-ID: <003601bed56d$08c91520$05f99ed0@robjohn.swdata.com> Since I brought it up I am in. Might give me the incentive to finish something. rob johnson -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schwartzkopf +ADw-PSchwartzkopf+AEA-transcrypt.com+AD4- To: Multiple recipients of list +ADw-wwi+AEA-pease1.sr.unh.edu+AD4- Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 7:24 AM Subject: Re: Judging +AD4APgA+- So, the midwest seems to have plenty of WW1 interested people we might be +AD4APgA+- able to get something together. +AD4APgA+- Matt Bittner +AD4- +AD4-Sounds like a gauntlet has been laid down. +AD4-What about it, guys? Maybe get together and discuss it at next years' regional? +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Paul A. Schwartzkopf +AD4- +AD4- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:47:37 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <37990D28.74AC70FD@ptdprolog.net> KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > I could never be a judge because I'm too under > the spell of what I see. I walk into a room full of great miniatures and I'm > a kid all over again and I can't digest them all fast enough. Boy, you got that right! I went to the nationals in Columbus a year or so ago and was overwhelmed. I only wished the builders were present so you could ask them questions about techniques, resources, etc.Mike Muth nb: von Hantelman's D-VII...almost done. All that's left to do is the landing gear. nu: just starting to think about that...one of the nicest parts of modeling, the anticipation of the next one. nl: SteelyDan on the radio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:50:42 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging Message-ID: <37990DE2.EE30A045@ptdprolog.net> Rob The Over the Front bi-annual convention has done this for their last 2 meetings, one in Washington and the one in Arizona. I hope they do the same for the upcoming one in Pensacola in April 2000. Some of the models were absolutely incredible. Mike Muth roguerpj wrote: > I have be reading these posts with interest. You see I have never been to a > modeling +ACI-event+ACI- of any kind. This is not by choice I have just never been > presented with the opportunity. The closest I came was when I found out I > had just missed the IPMS Region 5 Convention here in Minneapolis two days > after it took place. (or may be it was the figure modeling show at GENCON, > but we don't talk about that here) > > Having said that I wondered. Has anyone thought of doing just a WWI only > event? Just to draw attention to this section of the hobby. May be not even > judge the entrants. Combine it with some WWI history. > > These are just some ramblings by a complete idiot. Pay no attention to the > man behind the curtain > > rob johnson > -----Original Message----- > From: K. Hagerup +ADw-hagerupk+AEA-prodigy.net+AD4- > To: Multiple recipients of list +ADw-wwi+AEA-pease1.sr.unh.edu+AD4- > Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: Judging > > +AD4-I'm probably not qualified to add much to the discussion because I > +AD4-haven't been to any organized modeling event or meeting for over a year, > +AD4-but my impressions are that WWI content at contests does suffer from > +AD4-lack of interest and knowlege from judges. Most judges (and modelers) > +AD4-just don't build WWI. If the goal is to encourage more WWI entries, it > +AD4-helps to, if not have a separate category for WWI, at least sponsor a > +AD4-special WWI theme award. As an (almost) exclusive 1/72 modeler, it is > +AD4-frustrating to have to overcome the bigger is better syndrome. Matt's > +AD4-allusion to the orange-cockpited 1/24 Airfix Ju87 left out the fact the > +AD4-modeler put every single decal on the sheet on the model, including the > +AD4-one listing the sheet as a Ju-87 (perhaps to ensure the Luftwaffe pilot > +AD4-would man up the correct aircraft type). Yet, it was undeniably big, > +AD4-and won best of aircraft. > +AD4- > +AD4-Ken > +AD4- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:54:32 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: exactitude & aerial photos Message-ID: <37990EC8.9CE94800@ptdprolog.net> Dave one of the Over the Front issues had some of the gunnery shots for one pilot...I think he had a perfect score or something like that. Picture wasn't too bad iirc, but mostly a dark colored indistinguishable biplane. Mike Muth Zulis@aol.com wrote: > Bill writes: > > << The claim for the Cockburn-Lange photos was inaccurate in any case. > Guynemer (and probably others) actually took some aerial combat > photos. Not surprisingly however, they tend to be grainy, > misfocused, with mediocre contrast and not a third as impressive > as the carefully staged Cockburn-Lange fakes. >> > > WWI Aero magazine did an excellent report on the Cockburn-Lange material - I > dont recall the issue numbers but if someone wants to pursue this, I can look > it up for them. > > Bill raises an issue which I may have mentioned here before, but has bothered > me for some time. When reading autobiographies, I occasionally read that > during training, the pilots were sent up with cameras which showed how well > they did in mock combats. These photos were surely very poor and were not > designed for detail or clarity (such as recon photos might be), but it seems > there must have been an awful lot of them. Why aren't we awash with these > things, kept by pilots who wanted some fuzzy representation of their practice > performance? Even if officially they didnt allow the pilots to keep > these, I cant believe these things didnt survive in some numbers somewhere. > Could the photographic materials used for this purpose have been of such > low quality that the photos were useless after a short while (such as the > early polaroids used to be)? I wonder. > > Regards, > > Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:05:07 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: air brush question Message-ID: <37991143.2690DF08@ptdprolog.net> Thanks to Bob, Rob,Tom S., Ken, Bill, Matt and Dennis. Why I didn't think if two-sided tape I'll never know. I had been using the toothpick trick for awhile. I also like the idea of popsickle sticks. The alligator clips worry me a little...too strong to break some parts???? Thanks again. Mike Muth....off to finish the D-VII ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:40:42 -0500 From: "roguerpj" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] Message-ID: <009401bed575$8b268540$05f99ed0@robjohn.swdata.com> Found this while looking for info. as well. I wonder if it is real or a rebuild. I have been to Russia and toured there museums. It is not bend them to create a full scale replica. And in Russia the technology is still, this is to be taken light hardly, as it was back then. We came out of the Catherine Palace in Puskin and a man tried to sell us some plaster relief. His pitch was that he had helped in the restoration of the palace. These would have been the same relief that we were just shown in side. Along with photos of the palace after the Germans pull back from the Palace. (lets just say it was not pretty) We were then told by the guide that most of the art and relief work had been saved before the Germans came. Who to say which is the truth. Eather way it is nice to know somewhere where in the world one can go and see a Ilya at full scale. Truly, I hope, a most impressive site to behold. rob johnson -----Original Message----- From: Tom Solinski +ADw-janski+AEA-ionet.net+AD4- To: Multiple recipients of list +ADw-wwi+AEA-pease1.sr.unh.edu+AD4- Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 10:24 PM Subject: +AFs-Fwd: Ilya Muromets+AF0- +AD4-Found this site surfing at lunch. Surprised as hell to find a full +AD4-scale one in one piece +AD4- +AD4-Tom S +AD4- +AD4--------- Original Message -------- +AD4-Subject: Ilya Muromets +AD4-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:21:56 -0500 +AD4-From: +ACI-Thomas Solinski+ACIAPA-Thomas.Solinski+AEA-faa.gov+AD4- +AD4-To: +ADw-janski+AEA-ionet.net+AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Ilya Muromets again +AD4-Hey folks the Russian airforce museum has a web page and a Areal one+ACE- +AD4-see this +AD4-site: +AD4-http://www.infoart.ru:8000/pictures/monino/mon+AF8-b08.jpg +AD4- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:28:59 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging Message-ID: <2292c3ae.24ca70db@aol.com> In a message dated 99-07-23 20:16:26 EDT, you write: << Purely hypothetical.... Can we do a virtual WW1 contest, like a peoples choice based on what's on the WW1 photo site? Bill Neill >> There's certainly enough good stuff there to give some competition. You can include mine in. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:51:57 -0600 From: "Landon, James D" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Judging Message-ID: <98B98E951BA0D1119A590000F8045A47030A3068@emss02m05.ems.lmco.com> <> Can you guys wait six months for me to finish my Tommy? You normally wouldn't get an answer from me until Monday, but I'm still at work, so I can continue to work email for a little while. Jim > ---------- > From: Albatrosdv@aol.com > Reply To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 7:32 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Judging > > In a message dated 99-07-23 20:16:26 EDT, you write: > > << > Purely hypothetical.... > Can we do a virtual WW1 contest, like a peoples choice based on what's on > the WW1 photo site? > > Bill Neill >> > > There's certainly enough good stuff there to give some competition. You > can > include mine in. > > Tom > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:01:30 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <19990723.210540.-130977.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:48:51 -0400 (EDT) bucky@ptdprolog.net writes: > Boy, you got that right! I went to the nationals in Columbus a year > or so ago and > was overwhelmed. I only wished the builders were present so you > could ask them > questions about techniques, resources, etc.Mike Muth I wish I knew you were there! There were a bunch of us there. Hustad, Pilawskii, Huggins, et.al. > nb: von Hantelman's D-VII...almost done. All that's left to do is > the landing > gear. Cool! Hustad is also working on this machine - in the right scale, of course. ;-) > nu: just starting to think about that...one of the nicest parts of > modeling, the > anticipation of the next one. That is a load of fun, isn't it? Especially when you have your hands on a photo no one else has seen yet. ;-) > nl: SteelyDan on the radio A man with taste! Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:04:40 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] Message-ID: <46b19639.24ca7938@aol.com> Rob J. enquires about the full-scale Ilya in the museum: << Found this while looking for info. as well. I wonder if it is real or a rebuild. I have been to Russia and toured there museums. It is not bend them to create a full scale replica. And in Russia the technology is still, this is to be taken light hardly, as it was back then. >> The full-scale replica of the Ilya Murometz currently on display in the Monino Museum, was assembled in Latvia during the Soviet occupation.. "The large reproduction was built at the Latvian "Nakotne" collective farm; it is not clear who built the models, but they were probably technicians at the film studio." [AERO Magazine #113, pg. 57] In Latvian, "Nakotne" means "the future". I have no idea if this is a coincidence, or if the companies are related, but there is now a plastic model company based in Latvia, also called "Nakotne", producing kits of current/recent Soviet aircraft. Regards, Dave Zulis (trying to get over the shock that somebody asked about something - anything - that I can actually contribute to... and even on-topic.... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:10:50 -0400 (EDT) From: mkendix To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: PC-12 - makes of aeroplanes and serial numbers/ was: The Message-ID: Bob: Do you know what their serial numbers were? Michael mkendix@worthen.ihcrp.georgetown.edu On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Bob Pearson wrote: > > > Apparently, according to Bob Pearson, many of these had French markings > > and were numbered 1-18 (on the fuselage, I presume, not their serials). > > Also, Bob said that it was known that many Sopwith Triplanes were PC12 > > but it is not known which ones. > > These 18 were French Triplanes and were used by a naval unit based at > Dunkerque. I would love to know what they thought of them ... sadly nothing > has turned up yet. > > Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:56:47 -0700 From: Brent & Tina Theobald To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <3799478E.60EA6B5@airmail.net> Hey gang! > [snippage] ...but I am thinking rather of the ones who choose a model to build > not > necessarily because they like that item, but rather because it will be > "popular" at the contest I have seen this. It is true. Judging by what I have seen if you want to improve your odds of winning a trophy build one of the popular kits. (I think we have identified seven, m*stang, th*nderb*lt, sp*itf*ire, me-1*9, fw-19*, corsa*r and hellc*t. Did I miss any?) And I see other less popular well done models beat out by mediocre popular ones. It happens to a lot of other aircraft besides WWI. People hardly look twice at my Finnish stuff. I do get the occaisonal "Interesting German markings". ACK!!! Drives me nuts. I am going to do some Latvian stuff too now. Nice big red swasticas, and not Nazi! Sorry, went off on a tangent again. I build what interests me. I always have the (vain) hope that I can find someone at these shows interested in the same aircraft and history. Or find someone who wants to learn about what I have built. These are the people I am interested in meeting. Brent -- ************************************* They’ve got us surrounded, the poor bastards! ************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:12:28 -0500 From: "roguerpj" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] Message-ID: <00c301bed582$5cb0ada0$05f99ed0@robjohn.swdata.com> Here let me pinch you to make sure you are awake +ADs-) Thanks for the info on the Ilya. I wish I would have know about this when I was in Moscow :( I did wonder about the wheels. rob johnson -----Original Message----- From: Zulis+AEA-aol.com +ADw-Zulis+AEA-aol.com+AD4- To: Multiple recipients of list +ADw-wwi+AEA-pease1.sr.unh.edu+AD4- Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 9:13 PM Subject: Re: +AFs-Fwd: Ilya Muromets+AF0- +AD4-Rob J. enquires about the full-scale Ilya in the museum: +AD4- +AD4APAA8- Found this while looking for info. as well. I wonder if it is real or a +AD4- rebuild. I have been to Russia and toured there museums. It is not bend them +AD4- to create a full scale replica. And in Russia the technology is still, this +AD4- is to be taken light hardly, as it was back then. +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4-The full-scale replica of the Ilya Murometz currently on display in the +AD4-Monino Museum, was assembled in Latvia during the Soviet occupation.. +ACI-The +AD4-large reproduction was built at the Latvian +ACI-Nakotne+ACI- collective farm+ADs- it is +AD4-not clear who built the models, but they were probably technicians at the +AD4-film studio.+ACI- +AFs-AERO Magazine +ACM-113, pg. 57+AF0- +AD4- +AD4-In Latvian, +ACI-Nakotne+ACI- means +ACI-the future+ACI-. I have no idea if this is a +AD4-coincidence, or if the companies are related, but there is now a plastic +AD4-model company based in Latvia, also called +ACI-Nakotne+ACI-, producing kits of +AD4-current/recent Soviet aircraft. +AD4- +AD4-Regards, +AD4- +AD4-Dave Zulis +AD4-(trying to get over the shock that somebody asked about something - anything +AD4-- that I can actually contribute to... and even on-topic.... :-) +AD4- +AD4- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:04:47 -0700 From: Brent & Tina Theobald To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Modelers vs Historians Message-ID: <3799496E.C0941281@airmail.net> That last thread I wrote about who I would like to talk to at shows. It got me to thinking.... How many of us consider ourselves modelers only? I usually like to know who's plane I am building. Was he an ace etc... Did he survive the war? Whatever. I want to know these things and keep their memory alive. This is one of the main reasons I model. I use my models as a mini-history lesson. The model helps me bridge the gap between a boring text book and a living history. I like to think of myself as 50/50 modeler/historian. Brent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:26:28 -0700 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <3799DB24.5997@ricochet.net> Arron Monroe wrote: > > What bothered me was the way other members of the club went about the > critiqueing a young (new) modeler. It is tough on a child at 9 years of age, > they are proud of what they have accomplished and look for some kind of > recognition not belittling. I'm fortunate that the local IPMS boys (Silicon Valley/S.F. Bay Area) seem to be good joes, (almost) every one. If anyone dared to put down (rather than gently offer advice to) a child at a local meeting, I'd be the first one in a long line to give five or ten reasons why they should've held their tongue(s). What'd their models look like when they were kids? Contest winners? Weaned on an airbrush, were they? Patience (which modeling requires in large quantities) is perhaps the most difficult virtue to cultivate in the youngin's (especially these days), and anyone that discourages it ought to be roundly thrashed and put in the stocks for a fortnight. Although we have our fair share of good-natured ribbing among club friends, I find it strange to think how some could be so harsh to babes in the woods (or clubs). Sorry for the rant, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:39:10 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: French Triplanes (was Re: PC-12 - blah, blah, blah) Message-ID: <199907240345.UAA10939@mail.rapidnet.net> Michael, I had thought the serials were unknown. . however I now see in the RNAS Serials book that the following are given. .. French British sent returned fate serial serial to French to RNAS F11 N5384 23/6/17 11/10/17 F12 N5385 23/6/17 - crashed 13/7/17 F13 N5386 21/6/17 11/10/17 F14 N5387 24/6/17sic 1/10/17 became ac 15/PEGGY of 1N F15 N5388 21/7/17 - shot down 26/9/17 The others still elude me. I have mentioned in the past that I have photos of some of these Triplanes and will eventually add them to my website. . probably at the same time I do the page on the first Triplane N500 of which I have 9 photos. Note these have the number on the fuselage side as well as the turtledeck. Bob > Do you know what their serial numbers were? > > Michael > > > mkendix@worthen.ihcrp.georgetown.edu > > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Bob Pearson wrote: > >> >> > Apparently, according to Bob Pearson, many of these had French markings >> > and were numbered 1-18 (on the fuselage, I presume, not their serials). >> > Also, Bob said that it was known that many Sopwith Triplanes were PC12 >> > but it is not known which ones. >> >> These 18 were French Triplanes and were used by a naval unit based at >> Dunkerque. I would love to know what they thought of them ... sadly nothing >> has turned up yet. >> >> Bob >> ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1727 **********************