WWI Digest 1725 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by Shane Weier 2) RE: further on the future of the hobby..... by Shane Weier 3) [Fwd: Re: white elephants] by "WALTER H. APPEL" 4) Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by "Len Smith" 5) RE: Eduards Kit Sale- Rosemont by Shane Weier 6) HiTech Breguet 14 source by "Charles and Linda Duckworth" 7) Re: Judging by "K. Hagerup" 8) Detail madness.... by Zulis@aol.com 9) Fokker "Squiggles" by "John C Glaser" 10) RE: HiTech Breguet 14 source by "John C Glaser" 11) Re: HiTech Breguet 14 source by BStett3770@aol.com 12) Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by Matthew E Bittner 13) Re: further on the future of the hobby..... by Matthew E Bittner 14) Schweinhund was PC-12 - makes of aeroplanes and serial numbers by bucky@ptdprolog.net 15) Air brush question by bucky@ptdprolog.net 16) Re: further on the future of the hobby..... by "Arron Monroe" 17) Re: Cast in / Toe in was Judging by Tom Solinski 18) Re: Air brush question by "Bob Pearson" 19) Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by Tom Solinski 20) RE: Air brush question by "Robert Woodbury" 21) [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] by Tom Solinski 22) Re: Air brush question by Tom Solinski 23) Re: Air brush question by "K. Hagerup" 24) RE: further on the future of the hobby..... by Shane Weier 25) Re: Judging - Albatrosdv by "WALTER H. APPEL" 26) RE: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... by Shane Weier 27) Re: Air brush question by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 28) Re: exactitude by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 29) Re: For Robert K. by KarrArt@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:57:49 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD041224@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Tom, > Separating the scales and eras is important, since most > modelers out there > left the hobby at age 14 or so when they discovered girls, > and returned in > their 30s-40s. They may have the hand-eye coordination of > adults, but they > have the knowledge of models of 14 year olds. This is where our philosophies will have to differ. While I would *love* to have separate sections for WW1 stuff, we have a different approach in this country to that which appears to be used in the USA. In broad terms, we advertise a *minimal* number of sections, and all splits are done on the day, according to what arrives. If there aren't enough WW1 planes, there won't be a WW1 section. Full stop. By contrast, in the US, it seems that contests compete to advertise as many sections as possible - probably on the basis that more entries will turn up if the opportunity exists (just like my 1/72 versus 1/48 example) This has advantages and disadvantages of course and IMHO the two approaches are pretty even, making it a judgement call based on local preferences. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to be the only entrant and therefore winner of a section for WW1 only, so I prefer to compete against the later era models where a decent contest otherwise can't be formed with the entries received. Yes, I *am* a competitor, but not a pothunter shooting fish in a barrel Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E_Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:17:00 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD041225@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Lee, > We have a guy that is almost blind in our club group and he > does the best he > can. What more could be expected from anyone? Lee Sounds like my friend Steven Syme, who is slowly dying from a brain tumour. He kept modelling and *competing*, despite failing coordination, lost hearing, and failing eyesight, right up to the point where he could barely see and no longer walk at all and had to move into a nursing home. Even now he takes an interest in the activities of his clubs. Some guys have real guts Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E_Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:31:36 -0500 From: "WALTER H. APPEL" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: [Fwd: Re: white elephants] Message-ID: <3797A9D8.30F6@erols.com> X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Message-ID: <3797A7BA.1628@erols.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:22:34 -0500 From: "WALTER H. APPEL" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Albatrosdv@aol.com Subject: Re: white elephants References: <955a9c3b.24c817cc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom!! No offense taken. I knew what you were talking about and besides I've been in the game long enough to recognize the smile. I'm likewise sorry if my statement didn't come across either. Thanks Walt Appel Great e-mail address, by the way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:42:23 +0100 From: "Len Smith" To: Subject: Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <01c301bed493$9c4e22c0$385c08c3@default> I have just (off list) either been chided about my long absence from the List or enquired about my general health and well-being. Whichever it is, thank you Michael for your concern. I have been sitting here quietly ruminating on the different approach by America (mostly) and the U.K. to the local club meetings . Many of the postings on the above subject repeat the same theme, roughly that every meet has to have a contest to get people to show their work. I have only visited about four or five other branches than my local, and I have never come across a contest. Yet in each case there were plenty of models on show and much comment about them, not all complimentary if the modellers were friends. Maybe the Americans (mostly) are more competitive than us, or that more of us model for our own pleasure and are pleased to show our work to our friends. More or less the same remarks apply to our public shows. Most have a competition but that is not the main feature of the show for a lot of people. At our main National show almost every branch has a stand and many of the SIGs as well, and there is more wandering around looking at and chatting about the stands to the occupants than interest in the comp. Despite this the comp is well supported and the standard of modelling very high, especially from the many foreign entries. Of course the other delight is spending as much money as possible at the many Trade stands! What is the point of all of this waffle? I don't really know, just me thinking aloud about our differences. I don't enter contests, mainly because my stuff is not up to a good enough standard, but also because I appreciate a quiet "nice one, Len" from someone I know and respect more than a ribbon or something from an unknown judge. I will now go back to sleep for a week or so. Goodnight all Len. lensmith@clara.net http://home.clara.net/lensmith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:44:26 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Eduards Kit Sale- Rosemont Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD041226@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Barry, > Eduards is having a sale on the following kits, wanted to let > the list > members know before I put it on my web site. > > The following kits on sale > > All 1/48 Scale > > #8013 Albatros D-3 - $9.00 I take it this is a typo, and should read #8013 Albatros D-V - $9.00 ?? Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E_Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:17:40 -0500 From: "Charles and Linda Duckworth" To: Subject: HiTech Breguet 14 source Message-ID: <004f01bed4a0$eb549f40$399259d8@q1p5x0> Anyone know of a U.S. distributor for the 1/48th HiTech Breguet 14? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:20:56 -0500 From: "K. Hagerup" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging Message-ID: <3797B568.2CDA@prodigy.net> I'm probably not qualified to add much to the discussion because I haven't been to any organized modeling event or meeting for over a year, but my impressions are that WWI content at contests does suffer from lack of interest and knowlege from judges. Most judges (and modelers) just don't build WWI. If the goal is to encourage more WWI entries, it helps to, if not have a separate category for WWI, at least sponsor a special WWI theme award. As an (almost) exclusive 1/72 modeler, it is frustrating to have to overcome the bigger is better syndrome. Matt's allusion to the orange-cockpited 1/24 Airfix Ju87 left out the fact the modeler put every single decal on the sheet on the model, including the one listing the sheet as a Ju-87 (perhaps to ensure the Luftwaffe pilot would man up the correct aircraft type). Yet, it was undeniably big, and won best of aircraft. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:25:04 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Detail madness.... Message-ID: <44319bb3.24c91060@aol.com> Hello everyone... I just came across something for sale in a local model collector's catalogue - it is a car model, but bear with me..... Ferrari F1 1999 - metal kit with 1,000 parts. So far, so good. Lotsa parts, but sounds like a good project for someone interested in modern racecars. Then I read the scale.... 1/43. That means the car just under three inches long.... 1000 parts..... wow. And if they are producing and selling these - people must be buying and, presumably, making them. I know, I know - the parts are pre-formed and probably already painted (this list's members would probably shape them from all sorts of unexpected materials) but it shows the obsession for detail is alive and well all over the place. Dave Z (of the clumsy fingers) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:56:45 -0500 From: "John C Glaser" To: "WW1 Mail List" Subject: Fokker "Squiggles" Message-ID: While perusing Windsock 14/2, I was wondering what made the "squiggles" in the cowl finish on the Fokker E.III. Datafile 15 states on page 27: "The metal cowling and nose panels were 'engine turned' to give a highly pleasing 'whirled' effect to the metalwork........" What is "engine turned"? Polishing? Grinding? I know how Eth did it on his E.III but how did the San Diego museum replicate it on the reproduction there? Any thoughts / ideas? - JCG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:02:43 -0500 From: "John C Glaser" To: Subject: RE: HiTech Breguet 14 source Message-ID: YES! Our very own Barry of Rosemont Hobby fame! Lots of OT stuff and a really good guy to boot! http://www.swiftsite.com/rosemonthobby/ - JCG -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Charles and Linda Duckworth Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 7:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HiTech Breguet 14 source Anyone know of a U.S. distributor for the 1/48th HiTech Breguet 14? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:10:18 EDT From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: HiTech Breguet 14 source Message-ID: Hi Chuck We can get them. Sold out right now, expect more in about 3 weeks E-mail me for more info. Keep Modeling Barry Rosemont Hobby www.swiftsite.com/rosemonthobby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:12:51 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <19990722.203556.-66555.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:18:36 -0400 (EDT) mkendix writes: > I think there's something to be said for a mixture of judging > methods, by > that I mean that some awards could be made by a panel of judges and > some > by popular vote. At my IPMS chapter meetings, the monthly > competitions > are run this way. The categories e.g. 1/48th aeroplanes, 1/72nd > aeroplanes, ships etc. are voted on by the people present. Then > other > categories e.g. Best model of the Month, Best OOB, Best Technique > (e.g. > cockpit interior) etc. are judged by the chapter competion > organizers/judges. I think this occurs to some degree at Regionals > etc > where some prizes are awarded on the basis of popularity i.e. > voting. > Perhaps voting is not the best way to arrive at the most informed > opinion > since I, with my 12 months of experience, am allowed the same weight > as > my friend, with 20 years of experience - but it is democratic. I agree that the smaller contests, especially club ones, are good when judged by popular vote. However, when there are plenty of models there, a good judge (an oxymoron? :-) is better. Ah well, YMMV... :-) Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:30:23 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <19990722.203556.-66555.3.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Shane Weier writes: > You need better judges, or a more insistant head judge. As a fer > instance, > the bipes weren't separated out either of the last two years. In > 1997, first > in Aircraft 1/72 Modified was a D.VII and second was a Roland D.II. > In 1998 > first was a Halberstadt Cl.II and third was a H-B W.29 (in both > cases the > missing place was a (hack,spit, FW-???) I agree. There are some judges that are really great, and then there are the rest... :-) > All the OoB awards went to WW2 or later subjects though. > Incidentally, OoB > is a separate section in AFAIK all contests here, rather than being > chosen > from OoB entries in other sections. It's difficult building an OotB WW1. > In 1/48 the WW1 stuff hasn't been quite so successful but a SPAD 13 > won > Aircraft 1/48 Mod in 1996 and Graham Steel of this list won 1/48 > Aircraft > OoB in 1997 Good for him! > Despite ours NOT being an IPMS show the judging is essentially IPMS > - ie, > basics first, with emphasis on craftsmanship and only the best being > separated by nitpicking accuracy issues Makes sense. Unless it's an AMPS show... > I agree here, except that *BRIGHT* sometimes beats *BIG* Well, one contest Ken and I went to, we had a 1/24th Stuka - painted in Orange. Yup, it won. > MANY years ago, Airfix introduced "constant scale" and marketed > their kits > using scale as a strategy. I confess that I grew up with these kits, > and > still make one sometimes just to remind me why I love 1/48 :-) Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:40:30 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Schweinhund was PC-12 - makes of aeroplanes and serial numbers Message-ID: <3797C80E.104C53AE@ptdprolog.net> Bill Neill wrote: > During the move clear out I found a profile of a red SE5 with 'Schweinhund' > on the cowling. In an Osprey/Airwar, which has now gone into box land. > Anyone know what the full scheme was? Only the port front fuselage was > imaged. Bill IIRC, the fuselage was painted red, but the wings retained their PC-10/CDL colors. There is a small color profile of this in either "High in the EMpty Blue" or the SE5a Datafile Special...can't remember which. There are decals available for this one from Americal's 56 squadron sheet.(address is on Alan's web page) Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:42:31 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Air brush question Message-ID: <3797C887.7EB891F9@ptdprolog.net> OK, here's the problem. I'm getting to feel comfortable with the airbrush, but am having trouble controlling the small pieces blowing around when I'm trying to p[aint them. How do you guys keep these little suckers still while you are painting them? TIA Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:12:31 -0400 From: "Arron Monroe" To: Subject: Re: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <000801bed4b0$d2f72f20$d5a15f18@arron.twcny.rr.com> What bothered me was the way other members of the club went about the critiqueing a young (new) modeler. It is tough on a child at 9 years of age, they are proud of what they have accomplished and look for some kind of recognition not belittling. -----Original Message----- From: mkendix To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: Re: further on the future of the hobby..... >On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Arron Monroe wrote: > >> Imho, while the meets are very important in getting the creative juices >> flowing and displaying what can be done to in the hobby to the general >> public, the clubs themselves are important to keeping the future alive. I >> have seen one IPMS club do a show and tell during one of their meetings and >> completely tear apart a 9 year old members work. The look on that boys face >> was of pure discouragment to the point of almost being in tears. > >Arron: > >Most unfortunate. As a newcomer to my club, and as someone who has not >developed the high level of expertise shown by many of our members, it >seemed to me that great care was taken to make me feel welcome. >Disparaging or critical remarks are really not tolerated at our place; >this was one of the first things explained to me when I joined, and I've >never heard anyone say anything bad about a model that someone else has >brought. Of course, the minute I saw the high level of modeling by some >of my fellow members, and put my model next to theirs, I realized I had a >long way to go, so the "criticism" is implicit. But if you're >discouraged by someone being a lot better than you, there's not a lot >anyone can do for you. > >Michael > > >mkendix@worthen.ihcrp.georgetown.edu > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:07:18 -0500 From: Tom Solinski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Cast in / Toe in was Judging Message-ID: <3797CE56.91ADDB12@ionet.net> > "Cast in" means "toe in" When the wheel impact the ground or runway the straighten out > becasue the force of the landing and the pressure backwards on the wheel re-align them. When > the l=plane stops forward movement the wheel afgain pull forward intot a "toe-in" > position. Cars do the same thing. If they don't it is hard to steer and the tires wear > unevenly. Many aircraft have the wheels aligned correctly when they "toe-in".They may be > incorrect when they are straight ahead because when they impact and have force on the wheels > they then "toe-out" which causes excessive wear. Some landing gear are rigid enough that > straight ahead stays that way. Not all can do it. > Toe in also aids considerably in reducing ground loops. As the airplane begins to yaw the tire that is on the outside of the turn begins to scrub and has more resistance, and the one on the inside begins to align with the direction of motion and has less resistance. This helps the airplane to realign with the desired straight line Tom S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:26:29 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Air brush question Message-ID: <199907230232.TAA05430@mail.rapidnet.net> Depends .. some get a small dab of CA and are stuck on the end of a chopped off piece of HSP where it starts to taper, some get stuck down on double sided tape. Bob ---------- > OK, here's the problem. I'm getting to feel comfortable with the > airbrush, but am having trouble controlling the small pieces blowing > around when I'm trying to p[aint them. How do you guys keep these little > suckers still while you are painting them? > TIA > Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:27:41 -0500 From: Tom Solinski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <3797D31D.80776B5@ionet.net> A question from a non competitor As one other on the list said he doesn't compete because out of the feeling that his work isn't up to snuff. I haven't attended a IPMS meeting or contest in years. I was driven off by the attitude. I guess I ran in to the color cops, but the little exposure I had, and the mail I'm reading on this string still implies that you still judge on "impression" of what a model is supposed to look like. I don't recall a requirement to provide documentation proving that your model even closely resembles the item you are trying to duplicate. Am I right in this belief? It was this judging by opinion rather than comparison to facts that turned me off to the public aspects of this hobby. In the flying scale world you must present a volume with all of the appropriate three views and photographs demonstrating the object you were trying to replicate. I realize that this presents one more thing that has to be done to compete, but you had to gather that data to build the model anyway. At least of a real airplane. This trend to "what if modeling" i.e. Luft '46 IMHO should appear in the SCI FI sections. Might be a cure to some of your laments. Tom Solinski of the fraternity GAMMA, DELTA, IOTA (G*D, D*MNED, INDIVIDUAL) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:32:39 +0800 From: "Robert Woodbury" To: Subject: RE: Air brush question Message-ID: <000101bed4b3$a227bba0$91107482@per.clw.csiro.au> > OK, here's the problem. I'm getting to feel comfortable with the > airbrush, but am having trouble controlling the small pieces blowing > around when I'm trying to p[aint them. How do you guys keep these little > suckers still while you are painting them? Mike, I've found that a pair of self locking tweezers is invaluable. Also, I've used a strip of sticky tape to hold the part and take two goes to paint the part. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:30:00 -0500 From: Tom Solinski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: [Fwd: Ilya Muromets] Message-ID: <3797D3A8.CE580EE1@ionet.net> Found this site surfing at lunch. Surprised as hell to find a full scale one in one piece Tom S -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Ilya Muromets Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:21:56 -0500 From: "Thomas Solinski" To: Ilya Muromets again Hey folks the Russian airforce museum has a web page and a Areal one! see this site: http://www.infoart.ru:8000/pictures/monino/mon_b08.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:35:50 -0500 From: Tom Solinski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Air brush question Message-ID: <3797D506.92B3413B@ionet.net> > How do you guys keep these little suckers still while you are painting > them? > 1. If able clean the flash off the part on the sprue and paint it there. 2. Tweezers, not the best ones they are going to be PC10,12,CDL and a whole lot of colors real fast. 3. Rolled tape. Stick the tape to the work bench. Stick the part to the tape, paint one side, let dry, turn over. YMMV Tom S. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:39:14 -0500 From: "K. Hagerup" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Air brush question Message-ID: <3797D5D2.4390@prodigy.net> bucky@ptdprolog.net wrote: > > OK, here's the problem. I'm getting to feel comfortable with the > airbrush, but am having trouble controlling the small pieces blowing > around when I'm trying to p[aint them. How do you guys keep these little > suckers still while you are painting them? I stick the pieces on masking tape doubled over (double sided tape would work, as well) and stuck on a piece of cardstock. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:51:23 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD04122C@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Arron > What bothered me was the way other members of the club went about the > critiqueing a young (new) modeler. It is tough on a child at > 9 years of age, > they are proud of what they have accomplished and look for > some kind of recognition not belittling. I can guarantee that such behaviour at one of my clubs would lead to a royal kick in the backside to the miscreants - even assuming that it was allowed to go so far in the first place. Since we meet Saturday afternoon (rather than school nights) juniors are an important part of the club Incidentally, I'm 99% sure the same is true at the other club, given I've seen at least one person carpeted by the exec for making stupid, critical remarks about another (adult) members models. Maybe you lucked out with that club. It's not one I'd join Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E_Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:30:25 -0500 From: "WALTER H. APPEL" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Judging - Albatrosdv Message-ID: <3797EFE1.1B6B@erols.com> Tom That age 14 statement makes a whole lot of sense. Thanks Walt By the way, sometimes thats "Backside" of the organization. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:42:40 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Judging / was: further on the future of the hobby..... Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD04122D@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Tom, >I guess > I ran in to the color cops, but the little exposure I had, > and the mail > I'm reading on this string still implies that you still judge on > "impression" of what a model is supposed to look like. I hope like hell that I didn't give this impression. In our club contests we use a score sheet which allocates only 10% for overall impression, the remainder being for the technicalities of modelling. At QMHE the judges are taught (by seminar, and one year as observers) to judge first on "the basics" - seams, cleanup, paintjob, decalling, weathering etc. and at the last resort to split the models on accuracy issues. They are specifically enjoined against "impressions" and must explain their results to the very cynical chief judge if he suspects an instance of bias due to *any* cause. We insist on this. Rule #1 at QMHE is "Openness is next to Godliness" because bitching about contests has ruined more friendships, wrecked more clubs and made bad relations between more clubs than any other cause. And so far there have been bugger all complaints, because suggestions that something won by being big and yellow just don't survive scrutiny. > I don't recall a > requirement to provide documentation proving that your model even > closely resembles the item you are trying to duplicate. Am I right in > this belief? Depends on the show. QMHE Rule 12: Entrants in The Championship must supply the instructions for the model, and should supply reference material required to verify accuracy Of course, there's a note saying Scratchbuilds don't need instructions ! The judges *first* accuracy check (when it gets that far) is against instructions, if the model doesn't match, the other references should show why. > It was this judging by opinion rather than comparison to > facts that turned me off to the public aspects of this hobby. In the > flying scale world you must present a volume with all of the > appropriate > three views and photographs demonstrating the object you were > trying to replicate. This would be ideal, and might *just* be possible in a show our size, where 300+ models may need to be judged within about 6 hours. However, at a really big show I'm betting that the judges would scarcely open 1 in 10 of them for lack of time, AND because most of the models were already eliminated by basic failings such as unfilled seams. I can't pretend to like this absolutely, but until I find 30-40 judges who know *everything* about *every* subject, we have to do it this way or not have contests. Incidentally, lest anyone think we're all too serious about it, rule 20 reads "All entrants should remember that all the participants in the competition share the same passion for the hobby as you. All entrants should have fun and compete in the spirit of friendship with other modellers" Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E_Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:28:36 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Air brush question Message-ID: <199907230428.VAA20626@compass.OregonVOS.net> Mike wrote: > > OK, here's the problem. I'm getting to feel comfortable with the >airbrush, but am having trouble controlling the small pieces blowing >around when I'm trying to p[aint them. How do you guys keep these little >suckers still while you are painting them? Generally, I've painted 'em while still on the sprue - a quick hand brush touch-up after I cut 'em off generally does the trick. Alternative technique is the double sided tape trick. Stick 'em on a strip of tape attached to a sheet of plastic or the like and shoot 'em. When dry, flip 'em over and repeat the process for the other side. With parts with appropriately sized holes like props, engines, wheels and the like, a cocktail toothpick jammed in the hole will let you hold the little sucker while painting it. Stick the other end of the toothpick in a hunk of modeling clay to hold the thing in the air while it dries. And, sometimes it's just not worthwhile setting up the airbrush to paint one or two itsy-bitsy parts. At which time, I reach for the ol' sable's hair. Usually, hand painting is perfectly satisfactory for itsy-bitsy parts. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows." -Bob Dylan- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:54:33 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: exactitude Message-ID: <199907230454.VAA26389@compass.OregonVOS.net> Michael wrote: >Mark/Bill S.: > >OK, but weren't there a number of fake photographs - mid air collisions >etc, plus the yellow and red designed Albatros on the dust jacket of >Jane's? Well, not really "a number". The Cockburn-Lang photos are pretty notorious and were suspect from the time they were first published in 1932 although it did take a bit of time to -prove- they were fakes. If I recall, the creator of the photos eventually came forward and 'fessed up. There are undoubtably a few other fake photos around but probably not many. There is, after all, little commercial incentive to engage in such trickery. The Cockburn-Lange photos were sold as "the only photos showing actual WW1 air-to-air combat" but a photo trumpeted as (for instance) "the only photo showing Voss's D-III with a central radiator" doesn't have quite the same commercial appeal. The claim for the Cockburn-Lange photos was inaccurate in any case. Guynemer (and probably others) actually took some aerial combat photos. Not surprisingly however, they tend to be grainy, misfocused, with mediocre contrast and not a third as impressive as the carefully staged Cockburn-Lange fakes. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows." -Bob Dylan- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:09:22 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: For Robert K. Message-ID: <9b47bf82.24c95302@aol.com> In a message dated 7/22/99 10:40:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, james.d.landon@lmco.com writes: << Jim, enjoying a little 1/12 scale talk in amongst all the 1/72 vs 1/48 debates >> Heck, I like it all! If I lived in a mansion, that 1/32 Gotha of mine would've been 1/24. When I'm old and insane, I may just go back to "pure" modeling- sticks and tissue and dope and nothing less than at least 1/24, and preferably larger! Robert K. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1725 **********************