WWI Digest 1691 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Colored Pencil Method by Brent & Tina Theobald 2) Re: Pirates, was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by pedro 3) Re: Eyewitness books wasRe: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by pedro 4) Re: Colored Pencil Method by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 5) Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects - and intro by d mather 6) Re: They Fought for the Sky by Albatrosdv@aol.com 7) Re: Escallops... by Albatrosdv@aol.com 8) Re: Escallops... by Albatrosdv@aol.com 9) Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 10) Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by "Lee J Mensinger" 11) Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) by "Mark Shanks" 12) Re: Some OT (lit.)books, was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects.. Why? by "Lee J Mensinger" 13) Wecome Doug and re: Gibbons book by Zulis@aol.com 14) Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) by Albatrosdv@aol.com 15) Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) by Albatrosdv@aol.com 16) RE: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by "Diego Fernetti" 17) Re: They Fought for the Sky by KarrArt@aol.com 18) Re: Some OT (lit.)books, was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects.. Why? by KarrArt@aol.com 19) RE: Rhinebeck Photographs by "Landon, James D" 20) Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by "DAVID BURKE" 21) Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) by Mike Fletcher 22) Re: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by GRBroman@aol.com 23) Sopwith Aircraft by Mick Davis, Also why is WWI modelling unpopular by "Nigel Rayner" 24) Re: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by mkendix 25) Kits FS by BOBFABRIS@delphi.com 26) Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) by "Mark L. Shannon" 27) Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? by KarrArt@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:21:29 -0700 From: Brent & Tina Theobald To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Colored Pencil Method Message-ID: <3784DE18.CC276064@airmail.net> I am ready to shade the wing ribs on my Snipe. Since this is in dinky scale I am not going to airbrush them. Using a colored pencil has been suggested. What brand of pencil is used and what surface finish do I need? I am assuming a matte finish because I currently have a wonderful satin finish. Brent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:52:38 +0100 From: pedro To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Pirates, was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: <37849F16.F2F676C4@mail.telepac.pt> Ernest Thomas wrote: > Shane, > If you and your son ever make it here to N.O., I'll take y'all to a > genuine, real life, pirates hideout/legitimate business front. > Jean Lafittes Blacksmith Shop. Now a dark and cozy piano bar. Oldest > structure in the city, oldest bar on the North American continent. Also > the place where the wife and I had our first kiss. (schmooch!) Shane, Be warned, He'll try to do the same to you!!!!!! Better take the Mrs. along. ;-) Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:55:03 +0100 From: pedro To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Eyewitness books wasRe: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: <37849FA7.E6453820@mail.telepac.pt> Ernest Thomas wrote: > KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > > > Somehwere in this batch of mail, EtH has the publisher listed. > > DK. Dorling-Kindersley (not Dead Kennedy's). Pretty popular stuff. > Should be available at any McBooks chain(B&N, Borders, etc...) as well > as any good shop that specializes in kids books. > E. They have a site too. A Yahoo search will get you there, I'm sure HTH Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:15:17 -0500 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Colored Pencil Method Message-ID: Try using Watercolor pencils. These are available at arts and crafts stores (Hobby Lobby, Michael's, etc.), usually for a buck or so (US), and come in various colors. Use them to accent areas on the model using more of a "shading" action as opposed to a "drawing" action. If you make a mistake, and have not pressed hard enough to damage the paint surfaces, you can wash it off with a water dampened cloth and try again. Do this right before your final coat of clear. Get a couple of colors and experiment. I like colors like raw sienna, light browns, van dyke brown, and various grays. Stay away from too much harsh contrast, like black, as it detracts from the scale appearence. HTH Paul A. Schwartzkopf >>> Brent & Tina Theobald 07/08/1999 10:25:00 AM >>> I am ready to shade the wing ribs on my Snipe. Since this is in dinky scale I am not going to airbrush them. Using a colored pencil has been suggested. What brand of pencil is used and what surface finish do I need? I am assuming a matte finish because I currently have a wonderful satin finish. Brent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:14:03 PDT From: d mather To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects - and intro Message-ID: <19990708161405.895.qmail@hotmail.com> Hello group, I am new to the list and felt like I might introduce myself - and respond to the subject, since I am in that catagory too. I first fell in love with WW1 aviation after seeing The Blue Max, listening to J Goldsmith's wonderful score to the movie when I was 8 or 9 yo. I built some of the old WW1 kits as a kid, and even some as I got older. Then I became a serious modeler. I began raising my quality of work, mainly due to our wonderful Austin hobbyshop. I neglected to build WW1 at this point because I knew I could not pull of the rigging, and felt - stick to what you know. Someone gave me an Eduard SSW DIII, and as much as I thought it was a great plane, all that PE scared me. The assembly sequence was different than what I was use to. The schemes on most German stuff seemed a matter of speculation as much as anything. It went onto the "build at a (much) future date shelf. Then I got hold of a DML Dr.1... minimal rigging, cool schemes, and yes, my wife even liked some! Then came the Albatros .DIII, and I believe anyone could make this a decent model. I have since gotten almost every 1/48 kit of WW1 German that I can. Yesterday I ordered a Sierra Scale AEG C.IV! Im taking the plunge, and with your help, I actually think I'll succeed. I think the reason for lack of kids building models has something to do with price (most were under $1 when I was a kid), Availability (I use to buy them at dimestores) and lack a parental guidance into this hobby. doug (AKA NurseGuy) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:28:20 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: They Fought for the Sky Message-ID: <7c1f361f.24b62ba4@aol.com> Another good book to find is Floyd Gibbons "Red Knight of Germany." Fortunately I inherited my 1927 First Edition from my father. Damn good read, even if it doesn't let the Australian machine gunners receive their due. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:29:56 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Escallops... Message-ID: <9d42148a.24b62c04@aol.com> In a message dated 99-07-08 06:16:10 EDT, you write: << Does anybody out there have a suggestion about cutting even, correctly spaced scallops in the trailing wire edge of a wing? This defeated me on my Caudron but I do not want it to defeat me again. Y >> Don't cut - sand. Get a dowel the right size that when you have sanded up between the ribs, it will look right. Do it easy, sanding around, and the result will be a scallop with the trailing edge nice and thin. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:31:09 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Escallops... Message-ID: <6f8cac69.24b62c4d@aol.com> In a message dated 99-07-08 06:16:10 EDT, you write: << Does anybody out there have a suggestion about cutting even, correctly spaced scallops in the trailing wire edge of a wing? This defeated me on my Caudron but I do not want it to defeat me again. >> Forgot to mention to wrap sandpaper around the dowel. (there's bound to be one of you out there who will ding me for this if I don't say it here - :-)) Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:32:33 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: In a message dated 99-07-08 06:26:34 EDT, you write: << Then I saw the Light Side... :-) >> Small things interest small minds. :-) Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:46:52 -0500 From: "Lee J Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: <3784D5FB.EF71C02D@wireweb.net> Any WW I movie can be made, not exactly on the cheap, but with the availability of WW I RC models, ala, Darling Lili and many others the price is reasonable. Throw in the Computerization and they have it knocked. They just don't want to do it... There was a more recent movie and the Stuka's were RC. Don't recall the movie name, where the guy steals a Super Mig and flies away. Most of that was done by computer... Tell Me WW I couldn't be done. Ho Ho Ho. Lee Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-07-07 22:01:18 EDT, you write: > > << > By the way Tom --- what's the skinny on the Woods movie E. mentioned? Heard > anything? > > >> > Zero, zip, zilch, and it won't involve airplanes if it is happening somewhere > because Jimmy hates flying. > > The fact is, doing a WW1 flying movie would be more expensive than doing my > WW2 flying movie - at least P-51s are available. > > Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:35:13 -0700 From: "Mark Shanks" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) Message-ID: <199907081643.JAA01526@elvis.fltdyn.com> Doug Mather writes: > I am new to the list and felt like I might introduce myself - and respond to > the subject, since I am in that catagory too. Welcome! > I think the reason for lack of kids building models has something to do with > price (most were under $1 when I was a kid), Availability (I use to buy them > at dimestores) and lack a parental guidance into this hobby. Here I take exception. 1. ALTERNATE forms of entertainment (computer/video games especially) are FAR more expensive than even the most outrageous limited-run resin kits (never mind the recycled Airfix, Revell, or Toko stuff). I have a 16-year-old son who spends his disposable income on CDs and movies, when an equal outlay on kits would have him waist-deep in plastic in short order. 2. I, too, used to buy kits at the "dimestore" (Kresge's) and the local "department store" (E.J. Korvette's). Crummy selection, but enough to keep you going on SOMEthing. I was fortunate enough to live in a city that had TWO great hobby shops - Warbird's and the Squadron Shop - and, once found, my horizons expanded exponentially. Today, it's harder to find a "dimestore" than it would be to find a decent hobby shop. Unless you live in Caribou, Maine (or even if you DO, as I did), there's going to be SOMEthing better than the dimestore selection, and mail-order is always an option. (Probably the best one for web-surfing young modelers). Kits are available in a greater selection and (taking inflation into account) LOWER prices than ever. That 98-cent Airfix or Revell kit from 1970 now costs $4.00 - less than an issue of whatever games magazine my son happens to pick up. Hell, the 5-cent CANDY bar now costs 10 times it's price back then! 3. Parental involvement - think I haven't tried? Let's face it - modeling is a labor-intensive, low-social-content, slow-moving hobby. Most Gen Y/Boomer-echo kids seem to want plugged-in, high-action, social-opportunity pastimes. And reading reference material? That's too much like homework! I hear the same squawk on the Classical Music mailing list all the time: "Where's the next generation of listeners going to come from? No one under 20 seems to be interested!" Mark mshanks@fltdyn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:01:49 -0500 From: "Lee J Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Some OT (lit.)books, was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects.. Why? Message-ID: <3784D97D.25799CC0@wireweb.net> They fought is Quentin Reynolds. Lee Albatrosdv@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-07-07 23:38:22 EDT, you write: > > << First one is; > 'Years of the Sky Kings', by Archibald Whitehouse. > 2nd; > 'They Fought for the Skys' by Quentin somebody? > 3rd; > 'Full Circle- tactics of Air Fighting 1914 to 1964' > 4th; > 'Fighting Airmen' by Charles Biddle. >> > > All good reads! Arch Whitehouse was a journalist who knew many of the men he > wrote about. Ditto for Quentin Reynolds who wrote "They fought for the sky," > one of the first hardbound books I bought as a child. "Full Circle" is by > James E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:59:19 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Wecome Doug and re: Gibbons book Message-ID: <64f10507.24b632e7@aol.com> Hi Doug! Welcome to the list - and you arrived just in time to contribute to the future of WWI modelling thread with a fresh viewpoint - great timing. ================================================== Regarding Tom's post about the Gibbons' book: << Another good book to find is Floyd Gibbons "Red Knight of Germany." Fortunately I inherited my 1927 First Edition from my father. Damn good read, even if it doesn't let the Australian machine gunners receive their due. >> This is a good book to purchase on ebay (no - I dont own shares in ebay) - it seems to come up at least every other week and, with such an oversupply, you can often pick one up for a very reasonable price (lately, they have sold for $5 - 10). In terms of on-topic books' frequency, the only one that seems to appear more often is the Time-Life "Knights of the Air". Failing that, the University of Texas at Dallas bookstore used to list it for $8 about a year ago - it cant have gone up much since then. As Tom mentioned, this came out in 1927 and has probably had a dozen re-releases since. I suspect that this book introduced many people to reading about WWI aviation. Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:01:40 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) Message-ID: <14e19f24.24b63374@aol.com> In a message dated 99-07-08 12:50:13 EDT, you write: << I hear the same squawk on the Classical Music mailing list all the time: "Where's the next generation of listeners going to come from? No one under 20 seems to be interested!" >> There is one point: kids bought back Swing, and many like Jazz, thank God!! Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:00:25 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) Message-ID: <4a3a24a4.24b63329@aol.com> In a message dated 99-07-08 12:50:13 EDT, you write: << Here I take exception. 1. ALTERNATE forms of entertainment (computer/video games especially) are FAR more expensive than even the most outrageous limited-run resin kits (never mind the recycled Airfix, Revell, or Toko stuff). I have a 16-year-old son who spends his disposable income on CDs and movies, when an equal outlay on kits would have him waist-deep in plastic in short order. 2. I, too, used to buy kits at the "dimestore" (Kresge's) and the local "department store" (E.J. Korvette's). Crummy selection, but enough to keep you going on SOMEthing. I was fortunate enough to live in a city that had TWO great hobby shops - Warbird's and the Squadron Shop - and, once found, my horizons expanded exponentially. Today, it's harder to find a "dimestore" than it would be to find a decent hobby shop. Unless you live in Caribou, Maine (or even if you DO, as I did), there's going to be SOMEthing better than the dimestore selection, and mail-order is always an option. (Probably the best one for web-surfing young modelers). Kits are available in a greater selection and (taking inflation into account) LOWER prices than ever. That 98-cent Airfix or Revell kit from 1970 now costs $4.00 - less than an issue of whatever games magazine my son happens to pick up. Hell, the 5-cent CANDY bar now costs 10 times it's price back then! 3. Parental involvement - think I haven't tried? Let's face it - modeling is a labor-intensive, low-social-content, slow-moving hobby. Most Gen Y/Boomer-echo kids seem to want plugged-in, high-action, social-opportunity pastimes. And reading reference material? That's too much like homework! I hear the same squawk on the Classical Music mailing list all the time: "Where's the next generation of listeners going to come from? No one under 20 seems to be interested!" >> Hear!! Hear!!! (O.S. SOUND: loud applause) Tom C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:36:14 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: <003d01bec89f$363ee780$4640a8c0@prens-001.ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> -----Mensaje original----- De: David Vosburgh >Matt writes: >> My first WW1 model was an Airfix Albatros D.V (which I didn't >>correct >You and Diego... Yeah, but even if I bought it first (let's see, mm, I had 8 in....... 1977!) I never can dare to make a comparison of the level of quality between a Bittnerized model and one from me, not to say how I did at 8. Jesus,he went second behind Emperor Hustad! I don't even dare to take pictures at my models yet, altough I progressed very much since I enlisted here. I can't remember which was the fate of that model (burned, probably), but I recall the BIG blobs of plastic cement keeping it togheter. It was in a lilac plastic, I think... I left the pilot unglued just to make him climb in and out the plane... memories... D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:39:47 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: They Fought for the Sky Message-ID: In a message dated 7/8/99 3:14:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Suvoroff@aol.com writes: << By Quentin Reynolds. This is one of the three major influences on my WWI bent. Not current scholarship, but a great read. Another is the old comic (can't remember the title) on The Hammer of Hell, the Baron Von Hammer, who flew (what else?) a red triplane. And finally a book entitled _Great Tales of World War One_ or some such, with stories about Sgt. York, Luckner, and of course Barker. >> "In yer face" availablity may be one factor. Kids can't get interested in something they don't know about. (warning: another "back when I was young story") Back when I was young, the local drugstore, just a short bike ride away, carried the Von Hammer comics and the paperback book rack yielded up copies of Q. Reynolds, Whitehouse, Biddle, even McCudden's Flying Fury and EVR's Fighting the Flying Circus among others. I know the mall bookstores carry stuff like this, but the books aren't next to a fully stocked candy display! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:39:49 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Some OT (lit.)books, was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects.. Why? Message-ID: <47ecfc86.24b64a75@aol.com> In a message dated 7/7/99 10:59:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ethomas6@bellsouth.net writes: << KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > BUT.....Years of the Sky Kings was one of the first books I read after > getting the WW I bug, and was quite an enthralling work to my 12 year old > mind. Then I'm sure my 12 year old mind will be enthralled as well. :) E. Just put lg struts on the N.17. Progress! Bugger being on time for work, time to crank up The Ramones! ONETWOTHREEFOUR... >> For all his failures of accuracy and his curmudgeonly bigoted claptrap, he wrote smoothly- "Sky Kings" is almost a page-turner like an exciting novel. Here's couple of paragraphs from the first page of the second chapter: In spite of the calender the day was cold and raw. In the barnyards of the French countryside steam rose from the manure piles. The Soissons rustics clumped about in heavy sabots and blew on their work-gnarled knuckles. A biting southwest wind off the Graian Alps knifed through woolen jerkins and froze men to the marrow. A dish-wheeled monoplane scurried down a deserted meadow takeoff track and hissed into the sky. A typical or routine flight , but it was to become one of the most memorable in history........ ----------------- Kinda melodramatic, but the 12 year old mind loves it! Yeah, E, you'll wanna be sedated after you've read it.... Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:22:20 -0600 From: "Landon, James D" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Rhinebeck Photographs Message-ID: <98B98E951BA0D1119A590000F8045A47030A2FB2@emss02m05.ems.lmco.com> Back on 7-2-99 Cameron Rile said <> (I'm just getting around to reading my old email ... had 407 email messages when I got back to the office Wednesday from vacation ... didn't bother to unsubscribe from this list ... now have 417 unread email messages ... been swamped here at work ever since.) Thank you *VERY* much Cameron for taking the time to scan your pics and post them. I just finished downloading all 41 of your new jpegs. As a newbie to WWI planes I thirst for any and all cool pics. To heck with my bosses foolish assignments. Could you possibly email me the jpegs in your 1998 collection ... I looked at them but could not download them (I could "take a picture" off my Mac screen if I have to but it's not as good that way). I need to post all my SE5a photos and Curtiss Jenny photos I took locally this Spring. So much to do, so little time. Thanks again. Jim Landon, Staff Engineer, Lockheed Martin Astronautics Div. Launch Systems Dept., Electrical Systems Design Group Phone: (303) 971-1038, Fax: (303) 977-9738 or 977-8323 E-mail: James.D.Landon@lmco.com WWW: http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/landoni/index.html > ---------- > From: cameron rile > Reply To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Sent: Saturday, July 3, 1999 3:29 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Rhinebeck Photographs > > I scanned some of the film I took at Rhinebeck and put them up > at : > > http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/artattack/rhinebeck99.htm > > The photography isnt too crash hot, but I scanned plenty of pics ( > 41 including the USS Intrepid SE5a ). > > > > cam > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:22:17 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: <00ef01bec978$2dce35e0$0202c0d1@dora9sprynet.com> >Don't recall the movie name, where the guy steals a Super Mig and flies away. >Most of that was done by computer... 'Firefox' starring Clint Eastwood. And IIRC, that was way before the days of letting the computer do it. They actually used a bunch of (gasp) MODELS to make the movie! Look, Lucas in that recent fecal spasm referred to as 'The Phantom Menace' (the Menace is boredom - just to let you know) showed us that you can articulate ANYTHING with a computer. So to say that a WWI movie can't be done due to monetary contraints is crap. Digital A/C with digitized pilots. I just hope that they take the time to write a good story... DaveB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:01:18 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) Message-ID: <3785038E.F3EDAD8D@mars.ark.com> Just as you would not waste a good scotch on a 16 year old - why should music or hobbies be any different? Wait until they are over 20 and their tastes have begun to mature. > I hear the same squawk on the Classical Music mailing list all the > time: "Where's the next generation of listeners going to come from? > No one under 20 seems to be interested!" -- Mike Fletcher ___ ., mdf@mars.ark.com |-\|^----! ; mikef@sparc.nic.bc.ca |--n--""*" icq=19554083 @ (still in my 20's - barely, and into ww1 at 21) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:02:23 EDT From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: <6f8f8daa.24b65dcf@aol.com> In a message dated 7/7/99, 11:44:03 PM, wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu writes: <> Okay, all good points so far and a great thread. But I disagre with this theory. Why? Glad you asked. We have a great list, despite the somewhat aviocentric focus ( :) ), but we seem to be missing the real reason. Take a look around at your next contest, meeting, etc. If WWI models are unpopular just because of rigging, then WW I armor and ships would be in abundance on the tables, right?. No rigging on a tank and no more effort with a WWI Dreadnought than an Iowa class battleship. Heck, W WI ships may even be easier as no ()$%^ SK radars and what not to screw with. How many Mark IV's, A7V's, St. Chamonds do you see on the tables? Maybe the same or less percentage than Bipes on the aircraft tables. Our last show had a Tadpole, maybe 6 or 8 WWI artillery pieces, a few Mark IV's and a Ford armored car. The ratio was just about the same as the ratio of WWI aircraft to other entries. Oddly enough, no early automobiles either, all flashy modern chrome thingies that drive fast and only turn left. So, it must be something other than difficulty rigging. But what? Might be a recessive gene we all have. To tell you the truth guys, I'm stumped. But hey, let's look at he upside. Never a lineat the hobby shop waiting to buy up all the new Eduard, Emhar and Blue Max releases! Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:08:20 +0100 From: "Nigel Rayner" To: Subject: Sopwith Aircraft by Mick Davis, Also why is WWI modelling unpopular Message-ID: <002401bec97d$a112a040$c5a6883e@nigelr> Hi all, A confirmed list lurker appearing from the gloom to reply to the request a couple of days back for thoughts on the new Crowood Book by Mick Davis on Sopwith Aircraft. I bought this last weekend and although I haven't read it completely, have been impressed so far. It's basically a history of Sopwith from its flying school origins through to its liquidation in 1920, focusing on the a/c designs in chronological order. Lots of text (172 pages), main chapters on the major types (Schneider/Baby, Strutters, Pup, Tripes, Camel, Dolphin, Snipe and Dragon) with other chapters on shipboard Sopwiths, ground attack designs, and final designs (Dove, Wallaby, Antelope, Grasshopper etc etc - no wonder they went bust, should've sacked their marketing team!). Each of the chapters has sections on development and war service in various theatres. Lots of info on production runs and serial numers as well. All in all, it seems very comprehensive (but I'm no expert). Datafiles it ain't - no scale drawings of a/c, no marking details. For me, with a limited library, a very useful overview of a wide range of a/c. Lots of photos, although I don't know how many are "new". It does have pics of the Sigrist Bus (supposedly none were thought to exist?) and various a/c that are new to me (e.g. the LRTTr, a stonking great triplane with a separate gunner's nacelle on the top wing!). It's expensive (£25) but IMHO good value for money (bearing in mind as well it's a short print run from a specialist publisher). And it's affecting me.....I am getting ready to get Eduard's Schneider, a Revell Camel and a Pegasus Dolphin for the pile. They have a similar tome on aircraft of the Royal Aircraft Factory, which I'd recommend to those interested in that manuacturer (given the caveats above). They also have a Pictorial History of the Air War in WWI, which has lots of pics but very superficial text. I was less interested in this, as most of the pics are probably in other pubs, and the text tells me nothing new. Again, both 25 quid (as we say over here). Before I disappear back into the gloom, a couple of comments on the great thread about WWI modelling. I made hundreds of WWII and WWI kits as a kid (all the Airfix/Revell ones, rigged with cotton thread, even a Renwal Aeroskin Spad...), but dropped all this in favour of Napoleonic wargaming and figure modelling (got the Historex bug...). Got into WWI modelling last year for two reasons - Red Baron II and the WWI list. Played RBII a bit, which piqued my interest in WWI, and then chanced on the list. Seeing the gallery page completely inspired me and also gave me the info I needed to find kits from manufacturers I'd never heard of (Pegasus, Eduard etc). This is the way to get people hooked - lots of good pictures of models with the info on how to get going. And WWI a/c are interesting to all, as has been pointed out. I think it's because they are so colourful and so unlike anything we have today. They also evoke the period in a very poignant way (the fragility of the machines makes them look almost innocent, a ridiculous thing to go fight a ridiculous war in). Anyway, au revoir. Cheers to all, keep inspiring us. Regards, Nigel R. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:18:40 -0400 (EDT) From: mkendix To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 1999 GRBroman@aol.com wrote: > If WWI models are unpopular > just because of rigging, then WW I armor and ships would be in abundance on > the tables, right?. No rigging on a tank and no more effort with a WWI > Dreadnought than an Iowa class battleship. Heck, W WI ships may even be > easier as no ()$%^ SK radars and what not to screw with. How many Mark IV's, > A7V's, St. Chamonds do you see on the tables? Maybe the same or less > percentage than Bipes on the aircraft tables. Our last show had a Tadpole, > maybe 6 or 8 WWI artillery pieces, a few Mark IV's and a Ford armored car. > The ratio was just about the same as the ratio of WWI aircraft to other > entries. Oddly enough, no early automobiles either, all flashy modern chrome > thingies that drive fast and only turn left. So, it must be something other > than difficulty rigging. But what? Might be a recessive gene we all have. > To tell you the truth guys, I'm stumped. But hey, let's look at he upside. > Never a lineat the hobby shop waiting to buy up all the new Eduard, Emhar > and Blue Max releases! Glen: I maintain that to achieve an "acceptable" appearance is more difficult for a rigged biplane than a monoplane; my analogy would be from diving where more points are obtainable as the degree of difficulty increases. It's harder to do a dive with 3 piked turns and a twist, than a simple "swan" dive, judged in terms of entry and performance. On the other hand, people tend to persist in their interest since the "investment" required to attain a similar level of performance in a new area may be substantial. So, if I decided to do armor, I'd have to learn a whole new set of techniques, perhaps buy some more tools and defintely acquire more references. Your last point about exclusivity is well taken; I enjoy this aspect, to some extent. How would we feel if we awoke one Thursday and every modeler decided to do WWI? Michael mkendix@worthen.ihcrp.georgetown.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: BOBFABRIS@delphi.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Kits FS Message-ID: <01JDBTQA6OEU8XQ07Y@delphi.com> I find that I have a number of kits and books that are surplus to my needs - and will send a list to those who reply off-list, to bobfabris@delphi.com. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:31:47 -0500 From: "Mark L. Shannon" To: Subject: Re: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) Message-ID: <199907082030.PAA06043@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Something that is related to both of these two points is why my kids have tried models and set it aside. The expense of a one-time-through activity seems high to them, since their videos, games, and CD's they can work at the one till they 'get it right.' And that is the second point, with the parental involvement. I can help them build, and tell them what works, and walk them through the process, but they don't have the skills to make them look like mine, just as I don't have the skills to make mine look like some of the others on the list. At this point, they have too much impatience to build the skills, but they want what they spend their money on to look like the real thing and if it doesn't they feel they've wasted the time and money. I haven't tried to raise perfectionists, but those parts of my character can't help but wear off on them. So at the moment, their level is one of they don't have the interest to spend the time, don't have the patience to work it through carefully, but don't feel satisfied with the results when they work at it to the extent they are willing to put in. I haven't worried about it. My father wasn't much of a model builder, but was very interested in histories and seeing models. I build, my brothers don't. Both of my kids are very interested in music, and willing to put a lot of time into that (classical instruments and synthesized/MIDI development). The older boy will work at a computer program to the same level of intensity I do on my models, with the same attention to trying to get it just right. The younger boy hasn't quite found his passion yet and has time, but has developed an interest in football (American) and wrestling (the real thing, not the TV *&%$) and plays on his school teams. Either of them might pick up an X-Acto and Paasche again at some future point. They know what is involved, and if they have the interest, know where to get pointers. Mark Shannon ---------- > From: Mark Shanks > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Future of the Hobby (was Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects) > Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:48 AM > > Doug Mather writes: > > > I am new to the list and felt like I might introduce myself - and respond to > > the subject, since I am in that catagory too. > > Welcome! > > > I think the reason for lack of kids building models has something to do with > > price (most were under $1 when I was a kid), Availability (I use to buy them > > at dimestores) and lack a parental guidance into this hobby. > > Here I take exception. > > 1. ALTERNATE forms of entertainment (computer/video games especially) > are FAR more expensive than even the most outrageous limited-run > resin kits (never mind the recycled Airfix, Revell, or Toko stuff). I > have a 16-year-old son who spends his disposable income on CDs and > movies, when an equal outlay on kits would have him waist-deep in > plastic in short order. > <<<<<>>>> > > 3. Parental involvement - think I haven't tried? Let's face it - > modeling is a labor-intensive, low-social-content, slow-moving hobby. > Most Gen Y/Boomer-echo kids seem to want plugged-in, high-action, > social-opportunity pastimes. And reading reference material? That's > too much like homework! > > I hear the same squawk on the Classical Music mailing list all the > time: "Where's the next generation of listeners going to come from? > No one under 20 seems to be interested!" > > Mark > mshanks@fltdyn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:52:56 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Unpopularity of WWI Subjects... Why? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/8/99 1:27:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mkendix@worthen.ihcrp.georgetown.edu writes: << So, if I decided to do armor, I'd have to learn a whole new set of techniques, perhaps buy some more tools and defintely acquire more references. Your last point about exclusivity is well taken; I enjoy this aspect, to some extent. How would we feel if we awoke one Thursday and every modeler decided to do WWI? Michael >> And there are niches within niches. Two big areas of WW I subject matter I've yet to investigate very deeply- AustroHungarian stuff and floatplanes. I'm neither bored nor against these areas- I just haven't had the time or money to dig into them. I would have to get my hands on a whole bunch of new references and color info. It took me years to get lozenge and French 5-color schermes into my poor brain. After seeing what there is to A/H colors, my mind fogs over. As to waking up one morning and finding a mass exodus into WW I modeling, I would: a. try to figure out how to make a financial killing on this developement...and b.my contrarian streak would drive me to start building insect models, or maybe minature shoes...anything except what's popular.... Hey- I just had an insight- the real reason WW I is not enjoying blockbuster popularity is because I LIKE IT. Robert K. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1691 **********************