WWI Digest 1649 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 2) Re: Nieuport by KarrArt@aol.com 3) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 4) Re: Scales again by KarrArt@aol.com 5) Re: Scale by KarrArt@aol.com 6) big tripping with Graham wasRe: something for the eensy-weensies by KarrArt@aol.com 7) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by KarrArt@aol.com 8) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 9) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 10) RE: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by Shane Weier 11) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 12) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 13) RE: this year's datafiles by Dennis Ugulano 14) Re: this year's datafiles by Dennis Ugulano 15) Re: 1/48th 260 hp Mercedes by Dennis Ugulano 16) Re: Windsock Datafiles by Dennis Ugulano 17) Re: Windsock Datafiles by Dennis Ugulano 18) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 19) Re: Ship Modelers WAS Re: CDL by Albatrosdv@aol.com 20) Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by "P. Howard" 21) MARKING PLASTIC CARD by "David R.L. Laws" 22) RE: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? by Shane Weier 23) Re: MARKING PLASTIC CARD by Ernest Thomas 24) Re: MARKING PLASTIC CARD by Zulis@aol.com 25) workable control on Jenny by "Diego Fernetti" 26) TC Berg request by Matthew E Bittner 27) Re: this year's datafiles by Matthew E Bittner 28) MoS Type AI by Matthew E Bittner 29) looking for Pfalz XII info by "Arron Monroe" 30) Re: looking for Pfalz XII info by "Sandy Adam" 31) RE: CDL by "Diego Fernetti" 32) "Off Topic" - Australian Bookstore by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 33) Re: MoS Type AI by "P. Howard" 34) Re: Some Forces was RB 2.... by Tom Solinski ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:48:07 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00a801beb874$37e627a0$98888ece@phoward> Sandy, I've got the FB 12. Mine has extremely soft moldings. One of these days I might build it, but it would probably be easier to scratch one instead. As I said, there just isn't much information on it. Haven't seen the W.20 so I can't say anything about that one. Cheers Paul H From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 4:01 AM Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >>I'm hoping for subject ideas with sugestions on where to track down good >>reference material. My own interests take me into the lesser known types >>such as the FB 12 the Hansa Brandenburg W20, but reference material and > > >Hi Paul - Lone Star Models do vacs of both of these (1/48 of course - but >who in their right mind would want anything else?), see- >http://www.lonestarmodels.com/lsmair.htm >Sandy > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:52:05 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Nieuport Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/99 11:17:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, BEN8800@aol.com writes: << Also regarding building prototype models for Model Expo, the Nieuport 28 is also up for grabs. I don't think Marc has anyone in mind at the moment. >> My wife just shot one "those" looks......... Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:54:53 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00af01beb875$29894920$98888ece@phoward> Dave, That really wouldn't bother me. Previouly kitted or soon to be kitted subjects are still fair game. I'm looking to try out techniques and dig through tons of reference material, Besides, just because there is a kit of a plane, doesn't mean it's worth the effort to fix. IMHO Cheers, Paul H -----Original Message----- From: David & Carol Fletcher To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >P. Howard wrote: > >"I'm seriously looking into doing a scratchbuilding project in our >mutual era of interest. This may sound kind of strange, but I'm >looking for suggestions." > >Avoid the Eddy Melina Syndrome! Eddy scratchbuilt a 1/48th scale [off >topic] B-17G - then Monogram came out with a kit. He next built an A-20 >in the same scale - now Ertl has three kits... Some idiot is bound to >ask if your thousand-hour pride and joy if it was built OOB. If I was >going to scratchbuild again, it would be an Airspeed Fleet Shadower, >since no manufacturer in his right mind would ever release one. Look >for something which isn't going to be released as a kit (at least in >your chosen scale) and devote the time and effort necessary to research >it. You can then not only have a unique model but be the greatest >living expert on the subject and thus shut the critics and/or judges up. > >That's my two cents Canadian (1.5 cents U.S.) worth. > >Dave Fletcher > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:52:02 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Scales again Message-ID: <368b2082.2499cae2@aol.com> In a message dated 6/16/99 4:40:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BEN8800@aol.com writes: << How scale like are wing struts? They too are a thin item that may flex or warp to much. Ben >> I almost always replace kit struts with bamboo. If plastic molded struts are truly to scale, then I can't rig structurally- they ARE too flabby for this. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:51:52 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Scale Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/99 2:54:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BEN8800@aol.com writes: << Wouldn't the flying and landing wires be 1/1000 or less to be in scale? How many of you get it down to that level? Ben >> 1/48 rib stiching can be pretty small, but soemtimes, depending on my mood, I'll put 'em on. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:52:04 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: big tripping with Graham wasRe: something for the eensy-weensies Message-ID: <2d94e282.2499cae4@aol.com> In a message dated 6/16/99 1:57:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mkendix@hotmail.com writes: << I met Graham Nash (our man, not the ex-Holly) who bought me a meal in the West End >> Yeah, but that's how I always see our man in my minds eye! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:52:06 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/99 10:50:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dcf@mars.ark.com writes: << P. Howard wrote: "I'm seriously looking into doing a scratchbuilding project in our mutual era of interest. This may sound kind of strange, but I'm looking for suggestions." >> I don't have any suggestions as to subject matter- just built whatever you like IF you can find 11 tons of information about whatever you choose. Before I built my Gotha, I had been gathering stuff for years- the Datafile special that appeared about the time I started was just gravy! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:57:57 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00b801beb875$9b4dbc80$98888ece@phoward> Got any pictures of what this beast looks like. I have considered doing a Deperdussin 1912 Militaire... Paul H -----Original Message----- From: Diego Fernetti To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:19 PM Subject: RE: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >For the first scratchbuilt project I would do a pre war airplane: simple >airfoil section, plenty of wood details, a cockpit that's not too cramped >and beautiful and complex rigging. There's little chance to be released as a >kit (as Dave F. pointed) and enough info could be obtained on some of this >early "birds", some classics as the wright flyers or other monstruous (hey! >a new word with ous!). >If you're considering getting into vac-forming, a Morane monoplane racer >should be, definitively! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:11:03 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00c701beb877$6b9812e0$98888ece@phoward> Much bigger than my display cabinet could hold. With a seven year old daughter who love to touch things and another child on the way, I'm probably gonna have to keep the wingspan under 15" for project survival. Besides, once you've seen a 1/32 scale ILYA (Bob Rice's), all others pale in comparison. Paul H -----Original Message----- From: DAVID BURKE To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >1/48 Ilya! 1/48 Ilya! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:12:58 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD0410EF@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Paul, > Got any pictures of what this beast looks like. I have > considered doing a > Deperdussin 1912 Militaire... > Now, bear in mind that despite having taken them in mid 1997, they're in the freezer and I haven't get them developed yet but.... The Australian War Memorial has a 1912 Deperdussin monoplane with 3 cylinder Anzani engine at the Treloar centre. I took about 50 photos of it during my visit. If yoy *really* want to scratchbuild one, this machine has no fabric on the fuselage or tail surfaces, so the photos show more or less everything Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:14:28 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00d601beb877$e53000e0$98888ece@phoward> > >Better go for the Zepplin Staaken in 1/16 scale. > >Lance Krieg >(515) 242-4525 >ULK@Amerus.com > > You gonna build me a house to put it in? ;-) Paul H ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:20:34 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00e901beb878$c0d31d80$98888ece@phoward> Robert, Precisely the reason for hitting people up for ideas. Where better to get pushed in the right direction than someone who know where to look for the info. I'm not meaning to supply it, just where to look for the real info. Paul H -----Original Message----- From: KarrArt@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >In a message dated 6/16/99 10:50:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >dcf@mars.ark.com writes: > ><< P. Howard wrote: > > "I'm seriously looking into doing a scratchbuilding project in our > mutual era of interest. This may sound kind of strange, but I'm > looking for suggestions." > >> > > I don't have any suggestions as to subject matter- just built whatever you >like IF you can find 11 tons of information about whatever you choose. Before >I built my Gotha, I had been gathering stuff for years- the Datafile special >that appeared about the time I started was just gravy! >Robert K. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:21:07 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: RE: this year's datafiles Message-ID: <199906170021_MC2-79BA-A984@compuserve.com> Shane, >> finally we infect you with AMS, and wehn you can't finish better than two models a year - you're a full member ;-) << Is there a cure? An organization that can return me to old blissful ways? What price do I have to pay if I rebel? My hand is shaking and heart is pounding to think I can only do 2 kits a year. I want to do that many a month!!!!!! I'm not spoiled, I'm not! I'm not! I'm not! But I did suspect something like this was happening. Maybe I can resist long enough to hit 100 by the end of next year. Then I'll slow down to 6 a year. I promise. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/uggies Page Revised 3/26/99 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:21:03 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: this year's datafiles Message-ID: <199906170021_MC2-79BA-A981@compuserve.com> Matt, >> unfortunately this will be built out of the box (with p/e additions, of course ;-)). Unfortunately because as a rule I don't build kits with out of the box schemes. There are way too many more interesing schemes (like the SOP 287 Strutter) to be worrying about finishing kits out of the box. ;-) << I liked the scheme when I saw it and that is now locked in. Your OOB and my OOB differ in that I add almost nothing to an OOB kit. That is BEFORE I met you guys. Now I don't know what my OOB will look like. Probably will have a relief tube for the pilot. Good Grief, what's next? Castor Oil on the cylinders? Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/uggies Page Revised 3/26/99 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:21:00 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: 1/48th 260 hp Mercedes Message-ID: <199906170021_MC2-79BA-A97F@compuserve.com> >> Does anyone know of a source for a 1/48th 260 hp Mercedes (Aeroclub?) in white metal or resin. << Just checked the catalog I received yesterday and his biggest Mercedes is the 180hp in 1/48th Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/uggies Page Revised 3/26/99 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:21:05 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Windsock Datafiles Message-ID: <199906170021_MC2-79BA-A983@compuserve.com> Dave B You can go direct to: Albatros Productions Ltd 10 long view Berkhamsted, Herts HP4 1BY UK or in the US of A at: Wise Owl Worldwide Publications Dept WS 4314 West 238th St Torrance Ca 90505 (310) 375-6258 Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/uggies Page Revised 3/26/99 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:21:04 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Windsock Datafiles Message-ID: <199906170021_MC2-79BA-A982@compuserve.com> Len >> Don't any of you subscribe to Windsock International, THE magazine? I only began subscribing in June1993, volume 9 issue 3,although I have since managed to go back to 5/1 Spring 1989 by various purchases. << I do. In fact I have Vol 1 No 1 Spring 1985 Issue No 1. Great magazine and an excellent one source reference guide. Had to believe that I've been a subscriber since 1985. And I have all but 3 of the Datafiles. >> Apologies for the long message, just trying to get the facts straight. << Don't. You put it very well and I agree with you. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/uggies Page Revised 3/26/99 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:49:29 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <00f001beb87c$ca230220$98888ece@phoward> I saw a Deperdussin at the San Diego Aerospace Museum a couple of years ago. That one had all of its' fabric covering on it. I didn't have a camera with me, since I had no idea that I'd be in San Diego that trip. Basically, I went TDY to Palmdale, CA and jumped at a chance to run down to SD for a quick afternoon. Oh well, live and learn... Anyway, have you been thinking of doing one of those tremendously graceful birds? 50 pictures would indicate that you have at least a passing interest. I was struck most of all by the heavy duty construction used on that machine, that and that wonderful steering wheel! I'm going to add this one to the list of highly possible candidates. Yep, highly possible. Paul H -----Original Message----- From: Shane Weier To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:18 PM Subject: RE: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >Paul, > >> Got any pictures of what this beast looks like. I have >> considered doing a >> Deperdussin 1912 Militaire... >> > >Now, bear in mind that despite having taken them in mid 1997, they're in the >freezer and I haven't get them developed yet but.... > >The Australian War Memorial has a 1912 Deperdussin monoplane with 3 cylinder >Anzani engine at the Treloar centre. I took about 50 photos of it during my >visit. If yoy *really* want to scratchbuild one, this machine has no fabric >on the fuselage or tail surfaces, so the photos show more or less everything > >Shane > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:45:36 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Ship Modelers WAS Re: CDL Message-ID: <4d99f712.2499d770@aol.com> In a message dated 99-06-16 21:46:07 EDT, you write: << (P.S. --- If anyone ever wants to see an amazing testament to the modeller's art, go to the model galleries at Mystic Seaport in CT and check out the ships that people have built throught the centuries. Mensch!) >> Or see the ones in England that were constructed by prisoners and consider what they used for glue (hint - it was a natural substance that was readily available no matter their location, and was sticky). Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:54:02 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <010f01beb87d$6caf4080$98888ece@phoward> Cyg, The Morane A 1 is a real beauty to my eyes. Do you know if there is much info available on the type? Paul H -----Original Message----- From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? >Ernest Thomas wrote: >> >> P. Howard wrote: >> > >> > Fellow list dwellers, >> > >> > I'm seriously looking into doing a scratchbuilding project in our mutual >> > era of interest. This may sound kind of strange, but I'm looking for >> > suggestions. >> > >Martinsyde Buzzard >Bristol Scout >Morane A1 > >Suggestions in no particular order. > >Good Luck. >Cyg > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:24:53 +0000 From: "David R.L. Laws" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: MARKING PLASTIC CARD Message-ID: <37691345.3988@webtime.com.au> HI ALL What do you chaps and chappettes use to mark plastic card ? Iv'e tried pencils, biros and felt tip pens but absolutely everything rubs off at an alarming rate - any better ideas ? TIA David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:00:36 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Possible Scratchbuild Subject? Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD0410F1@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Paul, Re: 1912 Deperdussin > Anyway, have you been thinking of doing one of those > tremendously graceful birds? Yup. I scratchbuilt an (off topic) aircraft some years ago with its ribs showing, and the opportunity to recreate one of the AFC Point Cook machines as it was in 1914 seemed like a good idea for a future project. > 50 pictures would indicate that you have at least a passing > interest. I took the pics because I was there and so was it - and I never let that sort of chance go by *especially* in the company of the curator whose guest I was, and who let me take liberties like measuring undersides of the wings for the truth about rib positions ;-) However, I expect I will do it one day, if I live so long. The main obstacle is time but deciding whether I build it in 1/24 to cram in every single detail, or 1/48 for commonality with my other stuff and the challenge of making the same detail smaller is an issue. Whichever, I'll do it with fuselage sans fabric. > I was struck most of all by the heavy duty > construction used on > that machine, that and that wonderful steering wheel! Yeah, the Deperdussin joke, ahhh, yoke. > I'm going to add this > one to the list of highly possible candidates. Yep, highly possible. Okay, keep me in mind if you want to go that way. I need an excuse to get the film processed anyway ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:55:44 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: MARKING PLASTIC CARD Message-ID: <37688DE0.E75@bellsouth.net> David R.L. Laws wrote: > What do you chaps and chappettes use to mark plastic card ? Nothing works better than the blood of a hanged man, applied with a quill made from the feather of a raven's wing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 02:48:06 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: MARKING PLASTIC CARD Message-ID: << What do you chaps and chappettes use to mark plastic card ? Iv'e tried pencils, biros and felt tip pens but absolutely everything rubs off at an alarming rate - any better ideas ? >> Have you tried "Sharpie"? It is a special type of felt tip marker, popular among autograph collectors because you can sign a glossy pic and, in about two seconds, the signature is dry and wont be easily rubbed off. I have used it to mark metal, glass - all sorts of glossy surfaces that would not accept any other type of marker. I havent tried plastic card, but am pretty sure it would adhere to that as well. It is made in the USA by a company called "Sanford" - available here in Canada in office supply stores (I bought mine at Grand & Toy). Looking more closely than usual at mine, I see that it is even marked "non toxic". hth Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:18:55 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: workable control on Jenny Message-ID: <002b01beb7e1$a43ae3c0$4640a8c0@prens-001.ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> -----Mensaje original----- De: BEN8800@aol.com >No. Its bad enough to just get all the controls in the thing "static" without >having them work. Jesus, do you have any idea how difficult this model is to >design? Gee, I don't asked this to demean your work at all (I must say that I can't finish a satisfactory plastic kit, not to think in design one) but I'm always amazed of the potential of large scale models. For me, eye accustomed to 1/72 and 1/48 planes, 1/16 looks humongous! (yes, I find another word with ous) And I know that some of the list members surely have thought in adding such a feature when they get the kit. Of course, I agree that a model has to have the ability of showing how the real thing was done, even if it takes to "distort" scale in favour of effect to the viewer. I've read your posts attentively and I know how thoroughly have you researched this machine to produce a quality kit. I can't wait to see a picture of it. D. D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:19:13 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: TC Berg request Message-ID: <19990617.051923.-10569.5.mbittner@juno.com> I received an email from someone wanting to know if anyone was willing to trade one on one with TC Berg kits. He has the TC Berg Bristol Scout he wants to trade for the Nieuport 10. LMK off list if you're interested. Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:12:58 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: this year's datafiles Message-ID: <19990617.051923.-10569.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Dennis Ugulano writes: > I liked the scheme when I saw it and that is now locked in. > Your > OOB and my OOB differ in that I add almost nothing to an OOB kit. > That is > BEFORE I met you guys. Now I don't know what my OOB will look like. > Probably will have a relief tube for the pilot. Good Grief, what's > next? > Castor Oil on the cylinders? He too has succumbed... Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:18:12 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: MoS Type AI Message-ID: <19990617.051923.-10569.4.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:54:30 -0400 (EDT) "P. Howard" writes: > The Morane A 1 is a real beauty to my eyes. Do you know if there is > much > info available on the type? Just as an FYI, I belive it's supposed to be the AI, and not A1. Not only is there the FMP book that has a section on it, but there is also a Mini-Datafile, as well. Currently my database is down, but when I get it back up I will post all the known AI references. There are two kits out of the type, in the grand and glorius 1/72nd scale - Merlin and Formaplane. None others that I'm aware of. Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:02:15 -0400 From: "Arron Monroe" To: "wwi" Subject: looking for Pfalz XII info Message-ID: <000301beb8b0$dcc670e0$37b15f18@arron.twcny.rr.com> I have been looking for info on the Pfalz XII. I have the datafile but I would like to know if there are any others books that might have photos. In particular I am looking for other paint schemes and who flew them. Thanks AM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:49:07 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: looking for Pfalz XII info Message-ID: <00f801beb8b7$6a283b20$3ce8b094@sandyada> The Pfalz XII Profile (number 199) has a page of colour options. HTH Sandy -----Original Message----- From: Arron Monroe To: Multiple recipients of list Date: 17 June 1999 12:01 Subject: looking for Pfalz XII info >I have been looking for info on the Pfalz XII. I have the datafile but I >would like to know if there are any others books that might have photos. In >particular I am looking for other paint schemes and who flew them. > >Thanks > >AM > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:16:56 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: CDL Message-ID: <008d01beb7f2$20e68720$4640a8c0@prens-001.ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> -----Mensaje original----- De: Tom Werner Hansen >Actually CDL means: >Cool Dog Liniment. >Need I say more?. Yes. Please tell us if the tonal values of the dog in Methuen or FS equivalences. D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:18:16 -0500 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: "Off Topic" - Australian Bookstore Message-ID: Have any of the "down under" list contingent ever done business with Ian Connop at Icon Books? He has a couple of books I am interested in, and was wondering about any reputation they may have established before I place an order. Thanks. Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:22:48 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: MoS Type AI Message-ID: <001701beb8bc$1dbde820$44888ece@phoward> I stand corrected, AI it is. I'll keep my eyes open for your post. Thanks Paul H -----Original Message----- From: Matthew E Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:32 AM Subject: MoS Type AI >On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:54:30 -0400 (EDT) "P. Howard" > writes: > >> The Morane A 1 is a real beauty to my eyes. Do you know if there is >> much >> info available on the type? > >Just as an FYI, I belive it's supposed to be the AI, and not A1. > >Not only is there the FMP book that has a section on it, but there is >also a Mini-Datafile, as well. Currently my database is down, but when I >get it back up I will post all the known AI references. > >There are two kits out of the type, in the grand and glorius 1/72nd scale >- Merlin and Formaplane. None others that I'm aware of. > > >Matt Bittner >http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook >http://www.discoveromaha.com/community/groups/plasticmodelers/index.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:37:46 -0500 From: Tom Solinski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Some Forces was RB 2.... Message-ID: <3768EC1A.8B38549B@ionet.net> TIME OUT!!! Sorry all this is along message. You gents & ladies are treading in areas that are as tender as the +_)*^%^&*% red issue on the MvR DrI. First let's get the terms correct. Torque only causes roll, it cannot cause yawing (turning) to the right or left. All single engine airplanes are affected in some way or another by "P" factor which is a differential in thrust between the right and left side of the propeller disk caused by the downward moving propeller blade moving at a higher relative velocity than the upward blade, and a small difference in angle of attack of the two blades. This is the principle force that causes left yawing in airplanes with clock wise (CW) turning propellers ( as viewed from the cockpit) Some folks will also attribute a myth called slipstream spiral to propeller airflow striking the vertical fin on the right side causing a left yaw. (see the PS at the end) And lastly we have gyroscopic precession (GP) in which a force applied to a spinning gyroscope such as a heavy slow turning propeller or a spinning rotary engine reacts 90 degrees later from the point that it is applied. So how do these affect the way these old birds fly: To spin the mass of the propeller on inline and the mass of propeller and engine on rotaries the engine must push against something, that's the airframe. Torque, the engine pushing against the airframe causes the airplane to easily roll left because that's the way the engine is pushing it. To roll left the ailerons are helping a force that is already there. To roll right the ailerons have to overcome this same torque before the bird can roll left. So rolling left is easier in all CW airplanes and even easier in a rotary be cause the forces make it so. NOW that is pure ROLL we aren't talking about a heading change just rolling around the longitudinal axis of the crate. "P" factor causes a CW airplane to yaw (turn) left. It is strongest in high angle of attack high engine power situations. Like take off and in a climb. The RB program is duplicating this and on take off you are not moving fast enough for the rudder to take a bite and fight against this effect. So the crate wanders to the left. Try starting your take off roll with full up elevator. This digs the tail skid into the ground and forces the airplane to go straighter. Once the airplane stops accelerating in this configuration, pop the tail up to a level flying position and you will see it only yaws the small amount as if it were in straight an level ( for these any way) flight. But then you start a climb and the yaw starts again. :-) Either get rudder pedals or program auto rudder. All OT airplane flew at relatively high angles of attack, and their RPMs tended to be under 1800 the P factor would be high in most normal flight modes except for gliding in for landing. Now for the confusing bugger. GP. (This can be better visualized if you get a simple child's gyroscope the type in a small wire frame and you spin it to speed with a pull of a string.) First spin the gyro up and stand it on edge, so that it is spinning perpendicular to the table top. Now gently press on the top edge of the wire frame parallel to the axis of rotation. The top will begin to turn on an axis perpendicular to the table or 90 degrees down spin of where you applied the force. In all of our OT airplanes the Propeller mass is a significant portion of the weight of the airplane so it has strong input as to the stability of the airplane. Rotaries have even more contributing spinning mass. When you pull up in a CW airplane as in a climb or a loop or a constant rate turn, you are applying a force to the top of the gyroscope. The resultant reaction is for the airplane to turn right. The force is acting 90 degrees behind the point of application. Now it gets muddled when you fly a constant rate banked turn. At turn like this can be thought of as a loop laying on its side. To turn all airplanes must add some up elevator to compensate for the net loss of lift caused by being in a bank. This constant up elevator is applying a rearward pointing force to the top of the propeller our gyroscope. GP results in a force that tries to turn the airplane right into the turn, so you add left rudder which GP turns into a force that tries to pitch the airplane nose down. Some where you reach a compromise in all these contrary forces and you turn right. I haven't got to buy RB yet but Flying Corps did these effect quite well. Finally remember that as some one else stated earlier these were dinosaur airplanes, the designers barely knew how to get them to fly. The fine art of stability and control was yet to come. If you really want an airplane that goes where you point it fly a sailplane or a jet. Other wise appreciate the skill of the OT pilots who learned to master these quirks and turned these crates into warplanes. P.S. Five reasons that slipstream swirl is a myth: -It is not quantified. There are no equations to compute and therefor minimize its effects. -The same swirl acting over the wings and horizontal stab would cause a roll to the RIGHT that's 5 time stronger than the left yaw. Yet this is never discussed or quantified either. -The term doesn't exists before the first publication of "Stick and Rudder". -The direction of the swirl defies the results of free stream flow behind the propeller. -YOU can't see it. Watch a high power air show airplane with a smoke system. Even at high power high alpha settings the smoke just blows straight back under the plane, it never begins to spiral around the airframe. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1649 **********************