WWI Digest 1567 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Oops by Eric Fisher 2) Re: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I by "Mike" 3) RE: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 4) Re: Toko Strutters by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 5) Re: More Rogues by KarrArt@aol.com 6) RE: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I by Shane Weier 7) Eduard Hanriot HD1 by "Hirohisa Ozaki" 8) Re: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I by "Sandy Adam" 9) Eduard new releases by "Sandy Adam" 10) Re: German Aircraft Designations by "Sandy Adam" 11) RE: Lord of Sith WAS:List Newbie, etc. by "Diego Fernetti" 12) Re: Toko Strutters by Matthew E Bittner 13) RE: On Topic/Off Topic ratio was: Another one bites the dust by "Diego Fernetti" 14) German Grey-Green and Lozenge by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley) 15) RE: Cartoons WAS Re: Rogues Gallery by James Gibbons 16) Rogues by Allan Wright 17) Re: Rogues by Dennis Ugulano 18) Re: German Grey-Green and Lozenge by "Lee J Mensinger" 19) Re: On Topic/Off Topic ratio by "Mark Shanks" 20) Re: On Topic/Off Topic ratio by peter crow 21) I wish to join up... by "DAVID BURKE" 22) Re: I wish to join up... by Allan Wright ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:19:34 -0800 From: Eric Fisher To: WW1 modelers mailing list Subject: Oops Message-ID: Oops, I meant that for "Legs", not the list. Sorry! Eric. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:50:18 -0700 From: "Mike" To: Subject: Re: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I Message-ID: <00bf01be983c$b9a7e380$b78c3ace@default> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 5:20 PM Subject: Re: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I > Tom Solinski wrote: > > > > Hello listers! > > I've done a search of the past mailings and has no hits. Have you > > learned souls come to a consensus as to the actual paint scheme of von > > Richthofens' last airplane? > > Red. > E. > The best color for a WWI Aircraft...... Mikedc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I Message-ID: <199905070434.VAA16508@compass.OregonVOS.net> Shane writes: >Tom >SANDY WARNING !!!! Read no further !! Baaah Ooooohhh Haaaah !! >> I've done a search of the past mailings and has no hits. Have you >> learned souls come to a consensus as to the actual paint scheme of von >> Richthofens' last airplane? If it's in an old string I'll go there >> rather than rehash it here. >425/17 ? >Red. AFAIK the rudder is white, the crosses are black and white but >everything else is red. At least at the time he died. Earlier machines, and >presumably 425/17 at some point were only part painted to one degree or >other. Ed Ferko's MvR book has profiles which are convincingly argued IMHO 425/17 seems to have been the only MvR Dr.I which was -not- partially painted red at one time or another. It seems to have been delivered in standard factory camouflage and then overpainted in overall red (with the exceptions Shane notes) in one fell swoop. All the photos (I think) show 477/17 in overall red but MvR describes that aircraft in his victory reports as "red upper deck, red hood, red wheels, red tail." Presumably, 477/17 was painted overall red sometime later (when the photos were taken) - either that or MvR chose a rather strange way of describing an overall red aircraft. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows." -Bob Dylan- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 00:19:37 EDT From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Toko Strutters Message-ID: <80607a74.2463c3d9@aol.com> Hi Kids! Yup, all four Toko Strutters arrived Wednesday. I peeked at one. I gotta say it--for $9US, there probably isn't a better kit around! Nice. Structural detail inside the fuselage halves, clean, nice. No, I haven't done the "laying on the (Datafile) plans", but it definitely looks like a Strutter! Uh, how many do I put you down for, Mr Bittner? ;^) Or will you be having a few more Bebes? >:^) Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 00:43:47 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More Rogues Message-ID: <267889ca.2463c983@aol.com> In a message dated 5/6/99 12:29:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, johnglaser@att.net writes: << Aw! Go ahead and send 'em last night's mug shot. This time include the numbers under our chins. - JG >> We'll see, won't we? heee heee heee RK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:09:43 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I Message-ID: Bill, > Shane writes: > >Earlier machines, and > >presumably 425/17 at some point were only part painted to > >one degree or another. > 425/17 seems to have been the only MvR Dr.I which was -not- partially > painted red at one time or another. It seems to have been delivered > in standard factory camouflage and then overpainted in overall red > (with the exceptions Shane notes) in one fell swoop. You are of course correct in so far as it was all painted (apparently from the photographic record) in one hit. But what I (obscurely) meant was that at some point the painter started with a *not* red aeroplane and at another it was a *red* aeroplane and while he worked it was "only painted to one degree or another" Shane (no more jokes. I don't have the talent :-() ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:51:22 +0900 From: "Hirohisa Ozaki" To: "WWI ML post" Subject: Eduard Hanriot HD1 Message-ID: <00e701be985e$66513b60$b11db684@dosv64.miln.mei.co.jp> Hi All, I got my Eduard Hanriot and check shapes. I found a doubt about dorsal fairing. I believe it is shaped a half of cone with the sharp top point. Is this right? Hiro ps I thanks to everyone gave me welcome-back message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:04:19 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Old string? Older topic..Red Dr-I Message-ID: <022d01be9860$37d8f3c0$11e8b094@sandyada> > >SANDY WARNING !!!! Read no further !! Baaah Ooooohhh Haaaah !! Thanks Shane - I got my wife to read it for me and she said, No. No don't go there! So whatever it is I'm in your debt. Sandy > >> I've done a search of the past mailings and has no hits. Have you >> learned souls come to a consensus as to the actual paint scheme of von >> Richthofens' last airplane? If it's in an old string I'll go there >> rather than rehash it here. > >425/17 ? > >Red. AFAIK the rudder is white, the crosses are black and white but >everything else is red. At least at the time he died. Earlier machines, and >presumably 425/17 at some point were only part painted to one degree or >other. Ed Ferko's MvR book has profiles which are convincingly argued IMHO > >Shane > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:34:14 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Eduard new releases Message-ID: <028001be9864$7da0e300$11e8b094@sandyada> First of all can I say thank you to Ernest and Michael for sending scans of the missing HD1/2 plans. At the start of the correspondence though I sent an e-mail to E duard and, today received a letter from them. In it Colin Adair of Eduard says the following: "My apologies about the missing instructions. As to your question about our new releases here is a list of the kits you asked about. 8040 Roland CII September 8041 Roland CII Profipack October 8044 Pfalz Dllla Late June 8045 Pfalz Dllla Late Profipack July The Camel and SE5A will be some time in 2000. Other kits coming out are a Berg DI which will be out soon, an Etrich Taube in August and a Nieuport Nie-23 in September." And I've just bought the Nie23 Tom's conversion. - Still its got terrific transfers courtesy of the multi-talented Mr Pearson. I also got a coloured Flashback flier that shows the Berg (series 115) and Taube. The artwork for the Berg looks great - hopefully FB will include some accurate hex fabric decals. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:27:20 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: German Aircraft Designations Message-ID: <028f01be986b$e41ed0e0$11e8b094@sandyada> >On a related nore - were the A or B designations dropped from use? According to Neumann and his co-authors, development progressed through A and B to C which then became the standard type. He says the armed C-type with a 160hp engine was the standard design from which all later classes were developed. He mentions the lightweight Cls, the armoured J-s (so called because they were seen as "Junker-Fokker" designs). He says the need for high altitude recce led to initial developements of more powerful engines in C-types which then led to twin engines and G-types etc. He also views the D-type as a straight development of the C-type with weight kept to a minimum, no payload (C's carried about 220lbs of wireless equipment etc) and hence no need for the second seat. In his view A's and B's were obsolete and redundant terms after the C-type appeared. The C-type was the standard aeroplane and all the host of other categories were subdivisions or developments of this. Hence, I believe the classification started out on an alphabetic progression as far as C and then things changed. Whether D's and E's were continuations of this or mnemonics doesn't really matter as they fit both interpretations. But by this time A and B were no longer used. IMHO YMMV Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:15:42 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Lord of Sith WAS:List Newbie, etc. Message-ID: <005701be9872$907912a0$4640a8c0@prens-001.ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Taking into account that Obi Wan Kenobi said: "Don't trust your eyes, Luke, let the Force guide you hands" and remembering that the Imperial forces had such an obsession with big pieces of equipment (Death Star/Cruisers, etc) I'd dare to say that we 1/72ers are the rebels in this movie ;-) Now that we have the rogues gallery at least we can find who's our Chewbacca. Regards D. A threepio kind of guy -----Mensaje original----- De: David Vosburgh Para: Multiple recipients of list Fecha: Jueves 6 de Mayo de 1999 9:35 PM Asunto: Re: Lord of Sith WAS:List Newbie, etc. >Deigo > >No! No! It was another D.V. --- some big twit in a black cape. Sounds like >he's got asthma, and he flys an odd black biplane with no prop... > >BTW, I seem to have drifted into 1:72... what side am I on now, Dark or >Light? I've lost track. > >Regards, > >DV >Accept No Substitutes > >-----Original Message----- >From: Diego Fernetti >To: Multiple recipients of list >Date: Thursday, May 06, 1999 7:08 AM >Subject: Lord of Sith WAS:List Newbie, etc. > > >>-----Mensaje original----- >>De: Robert M. Farrar >>Para: Multiple recipients of list >> >> >>>IMPRESSIVE ! MASTER LUKE, YOUR MASTER HAS TAUGHT YOU WELL >>>D.V. >>> >> >>David Vosburgh said that? Jesus! >>D. >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 05:35:30 -0500 From: Matthew E Bittner To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Toko Strutters Message-ID: <19990507.054912.-850255.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 7 May 1999 00:42:22 -0400 (EDT) TPTPUMPER@aol.com writes: > Yup, all four Toko Strutters arrived Wednesday. I peeked at > one. I > gotta say it--for $9US, there probably isn't a better kit around! > Nice. > Structural detail inside the fuselage halves, clean, nice. No, I > haven't > done the "laying on the (Datafile) plans", but it definitely looks > like a > Strutter! Uh, how many do I put you down for, Mr Bittner? ;^) Or > will you > be having a few more Bebes? >:^) Sorry, but due to one missing piece, I'm only going to buy the Comic. Now don't let that stop everybody else, please. I'm not a huge Strutter fan; just found the Flashback kit to be as awesome as I have said it to be. Plus with those flat sides, it really shows off the Escadrille emblems, doesn't it? And could I ever have enough Nie.11's? Heck, I need to finish one, first. ;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:52:09 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: On Topic/Off Topic ratio was: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <006c01be9877$a7e845a0$4640a8c0@prens-001.ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> >Steven M. Perry wrote: > >> OK, what's everyone's On Topic to Off Topic ratio of completed models on >> the shelf? Since I returned to the hobby (about 5 years ago) I finished about 10-12 airplane kits. I re-started with 3 WW2 subjects, all cantilevered monoplanes, and then I run into a tiger moth kit and fell in love again with biplanes. On the shelves? only four, all OT. Some were gone as gifts, others are on loan, etc. I have many 54 mm. figures too, a big T Rex, almost scratchbuilt from the old Tamiya kit (and a lead Napoleon is staring at me here on the desk). D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:16:04 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: German Grey-Green and Lozenge Message-ID: Lee, Comparing the grey-green on your E.V project to that of the AEG in Ottawa, I'd have to say they're pretty close, and there are a lot of models out there with metal panels that are too "light-grey" in colour. Also, the lozenge on the E.V is more like the Aeromaster decal sheet than the Pegasus sheet (which has more of a "blue" cast) or the Americal sheet (which is very muted). Can you get us a shot of the underside lozenge colour? Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:33:16 -0400 From: James Gibbons To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Cartoons WAS Re: Rogues Gallery Message-ID: <01BE9864.41D3BE60.jgibbons@vppsa.com> Jeese.... Rub your hands together maniacally just once and look what conversations you can provoke. James Gibbons P.S. I believe the photo in question was taken as I was tailing a Bristol F2b (for the third consecutive turn) in a Fokker DVII and was about to deal out a little well deserved revenge on my arch-nemesis Leo Murphy :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi Subject: Rogues Message-ID: <199905071238.IAA25139@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Two more added today. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:53:33 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Rogues Message-ID: <199905070854_MC2-74DB-81B4@compuserve.com> I have got to get my internet access back on line. I must see all of these beautiful faces that everyone is talking about. And I guess I better get one of my better mug shots on line. Let me check with the post office. Maybe they will let take one down from the wall if I promise to return it. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/uggies Page Revised 3/26/99 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:15:06 -0500 From: "Lee J Mensinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: German Grey-Green and Lozenge Message-ID: <3732F56A.FF87C4D3@wireweb.net> Can try, next time I go to the hangar. the matraial is the same if my recollector is operating correctly. The "Foundation" did not have the space or proper facilities to do the wing, so it has been "farmed out" to a sub-contractor. Don't know when it will be finished. Unfortunately I missed the completion of the Nieuport 28c. It was just shipped to Champlin in Arizona and has already been put on display. I am a member of the group and they are pretty easy to get along with anyway. So more photos is no problem. Got ten more rolls of film as well. Lee Kevin & Kimberley wrote: > Lee, > > Comparing the grey-green on your E.V project to that of the AEG in Ottawa, > I'd have to say they're pretty close, and there are a lot of models out > there with metal panels that are too "light-grey" in colour. Also, the > lozenge on the E.V is more like the Aeromaster decal sheet than the Pegasus > sheet (which has more of a "blue" cast) or the Americal sheet (which is > very muted). Can you get us a shot of the underside lozenge colour? > > Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:57:50 -0700 From: "Mark Shanks" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: On Topic/Off Topic ratio Message-ID: <199905071459.HAA09311@elvis.fltdyn.com> Steven M. Perry wrote: > OK, what's everyone's On Topic to Off Topic ratio of completed models on > the shelf? In the last 10 years, I believe I have finished about 9 kits (and moved from St. Louis to Phoenix to Portland). Of those, 3 are WWI (2 in 1/48th, 1 in 72nd), 3 are WWII (1/32 and two 1/72), and 3 are modern (both 1/48th). All things in moderation. Mark mshanks@fltdyn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:47:37 -0700 (PDT) From: peter crow To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: On Topic/Off Topic ratio Message-ID: <19990507154737.21755.rocketmail@web701.mail.yahoo.com> > Steven M. Perry wrote: > > > OK, what's everyone's On Topic to Off Topic ratio > of completed models on > > the shelf? > For myself, aircraft, I'd have to divide it up into thirds.. 1/3 WWI 1/3 Between the Wars 1/3 WWII Ships and figures would fall mostly before WWI P. Crow _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:47:26 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: I wish to join up... Message-ID: <001901be98b1$ae02b940$5fff10d1@dora9sprynet.com> Dear Sir: I wish to join up. My name is Dave Burke, and I like WWI aviation. I work mainly in 1/48 scale, and need to build smaller stuff 'cause my case is getting full! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:54:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: I wish to join up... Message-ID: <199905071754.NAA26569@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > I wish to join up. My name is Dave Burke, and I like WWI aviation. I > work mainly in 1/48 scale, and need to build smaller stuff 'cause my case is > getting full! David, Information on subscribing is in the FAQ below.. -Allan =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== World War I Modeling Mailing List Information and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Charter: The World War I modeling mailing list exists for the purpose of distributing information about building models in any scale with subjects from World War I. This includes but is not limited to: Airplanes, Tanks and other ground vehicles, figurines and ships. It is an unmoderated mailing list that is maintained by Allan Wright (aew(at)pease1.sr.unh.edu). Opinions are those of the individual contributors and not those of The University of New Hampshire. Table of Contents: I. Important List Information 1. Subscription Information a. How to subscribe b. Important commands 2. Posting Articles a. How to post b. Seeing your own posts c. Changing over to the digest 3. Archive information II. Known WW1 Aviation Periodicals and Subscription Information 1. Cross & Cockade International 2. Over the Front (The League of WW1 Aviation Historians) 3. WW1 Aero (WW1 Aero) 4. Windsock III. Other WW1-oriented Email Lists 1. WWI-L: WW1 General History 2. "Virtual" Over the Front Chapter IV. Mail Order Sources V. Between the Wars Discussion VI. Commonly used Acronyms VII. Aircraft Rigging VIII. Scale Conversions for Photocopy Purposes IX. Sources for Scale Plans X. Known Problems with Model Manufacturers I. Important List Information 1. Subscription Information a. How to subscribe Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to wwi-request@pease1.sr.unh.edu. This is done by the listproc mailing list software automatically. You will receive confirmation of your transaction via e-mail. b. Important commands - subscribe wwi Your_Real_Name - unsubscribe wwi - review wwi (Shows who is subscribed) - information wwi (Get information about the list) - help (Get a much more detailed file about listproc commands) - end 2. Posting Articles a. How to post Simply mail an E-mail message to wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu - the message will be sent directly to all subscribers of the mailing list. Be careful when responding to mail from the list - if you want the response to go to the whole list you may have to explicitly tell your mailer to do so. Using the Reply function of your mailer might send the response only to the original poster. b. Seeing your own posts When you mail a message to the list the server determines weather or not to send you a copy of the message depending on the settings you have set. The default is *NOT TO SEND YOU A COPY*. If you wish to see your posts bounced back to you for verification you need to tell the server to do this for you. To do so send a message to wwi-request@pease1.sr.unh.edu with the following commands in the BODY of the message set wwi mail ack end I urge everyone, PLEASE take the time to send the server a "HELP" message and read the documentation it sends you. Also the set command might warrant some additional reading as it is how you set the server to your liking to get the most out of it. c. Changing over to the digest To change over to the digest, instead of "loose" mail, send a message to wwi-request@pease1.sr.unh.edu with the following commands in the BODY of the message set wwi mail digest end 3. Archive Information Past articles are archived and may be accessed via the World Wide Web (WWW) at the following URL: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu This page also contains other information about WWI modeling. List Author and Maintainer: Allan Wright (aew@unh.edu) II. Known WW1 Aviation Periodicals and Subscription Information 1. Cross & Cockade International (C&CI) Membership Secretary 6 Cowper Road Southgate London N14 5RP England Cost is 19.00 UK pounds per year surface mail (about US$31.00). Note: membership is also available from Over the Front (see 2. below) 2. Over the Front (OtF - The League of WW1 Aviation Historians) P.O. Box 2475 Rockford IL 61132-0475 USA U.S. subscription rate is $37.00 (for 4th class mail). For 1st Class or overseas rates, please contact Dick Bennett, our membership secretary. E-mail is: 104635.1603@COMPUSERVE.COM Note: you can subscribe to C&CI at the same time you subscribe to OtF. Cost: An additional US$30 surface mail, US$45 air mail. 3. WW1 Aero (WW1 Aero) 15 Crescent Road Poughkeepsie, N.Y. 12601-4490 USA Cost is minimum US$30.00 per year, surface mail. 4. Windsock (Albatros Publications) Albatros Publications Ltd. 10 Long View Berkhamsted Herts HP4 1BY United Kingdom III. Other WW1-oriented Email Lists 1. WWI-L: WW1 General History WWI-L is an unmoderated list for the discussion of the history of World War I. Although the primary focus of the list is the 1914-1919 time period, discussions of events leading up to the Great War and its aftermath (i.e., Balkan Wars & the Russian Revolution) are also permitted and encouraged. As a scholarly list, WWI-L does not permit commercial postings. To subscribe to WWI-L, send the following message: To: listproc@raven.cc.ukans.edu subscribe WWI-L Firstname Lastname Where Firstname = your real first name, and where Lastname = your real last name. 2. "Virtual" Over the Front Chapter The Over the Front (see III.2. above) Virtual Chapter was instigated by Carl J. Bobrow. It is currently not run as a listserv, but as a big editable address book (on each subscriber's own e-mail system). If you wish to join, send a note to Carl and asked to be added (he maintains the master list of subscribers). You don't have to be a member of The League of WW1 Aviation Historians to be a member of the OtF Virtual Chapter. The Chapter is merely a list of WWI aviation history enthusiasts with e-mail addresses. IV. Mail Order Sources Most known sources that deal with WW1 modeling can be found on the web site, at http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/mailorder.html V. Between the Wars Discussion It has been brought up on the list numerous times if there could be discussion on Between the Wars (approximately 1919 to 1939) subjects. Since this is a list devoted to WW1 modeling, large discussions about this time period are to be avoided. However, the list will allow a "feeler" message, where all discussion afterwards goes to private email. So, for example, you want some info on the Curtiss P-1, you would post a message to the list (maybe designate in the subject that the subject is Between the Wars or "off topic") and then anyone who wants to follow up on the discussion will move it to private email. The important thing to remember is to take the discussion off list. VI. Commonly used Acronyms >From time to time, you may see the following acronyms floating around the list. While most are considered "internet in general", there are a few that are list specific. AFAIK: As Far As I Know BTW: By The Way FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions FWIW: For What It's Worth IIRC: If I Recall Correctly IMHO: In My Honest Opinion, or In My Humble Opinion IMNSHO: In My Not So Honest Opinion ROTFL: Rolling On The Floor Laughing RTFD: Read The F Directions RTFM: Read The F Manual RTMS: Read The Manual Stupid SMBIKA: Stop Me Before I Kill Again SWBU: Shake Well Before Using SWMBO: She Who Must Be Obeyed TETE: This End Towards Enemy TIA: Thanks In Advance TTFN: Ta Ta For Now WTFDTM: What The FAQ Does That Mean YMMV: Your milage may vary In the same vein, there are a few abbreviations that should be explained: A-H: Austro-Hungary/ian AEG: Allgemeinen Electrizitats Gesellschaft (Berlin, Germany) Alb: Albatros B.E.: Bleriot Experimental C: French: Chasse or Pursuit (single-seat fighter)/ German: two-seat recc. CA: Crazy Glue (i.e. cyanoacrylate) D: Doppledecker (German Biplane) DFW: Deutsch Flugzeug Werke Dr: Dreidecker (German Triplane) E: Eindecker (German Monoplane) Esc: Escadrille F.E.: Farman Experimental Fok: Fokker G: Grossfleugzeuge (German Large airplane) LFG: Luftfahrzeug Gesellschaft LVG: Luft-Verkehrs Gesellschaft LWF: Lowe, Willard, and Fowler (USA) MS: Morane Saulnier MoS: Morane Saulnier N: Nieuport Nie: Nieuport P/E: Photoetched RAE: Royal Aircraft Establishment RAF: Royal Air Force R.E.: Recconaissance Experimental RFC: Royal Flying Corps RNAS: Royal Naval Air Service S.E.: Scout Experimental (originally Santos-Dumont Experimental) SSW: Siemens-Schukert Werkes T-M: Thomas Morse In addition, the list has come up with some abbreviations to show what one is currely working on. These are: nb: Now Building, i.e. what is currently on the bench, and actively being worked on nu: Next Up; this shows what the next model is after the nb is complete. sitnf: Sometime In The Near Future; you see yourself working on this model at some forseable future point. fdtr: Further Down The Road; another model that you see yourself working on, after the sitnf one. np: Now Playing; some members are avid music listeners, sometime listening to music while they build. This is what they are currently listening to. nr: Now Reading; this is the current book, article of periodicle one is currently reading. VII. Aircraft Rigging Rigging models is always a tricky endeavour. You will get as many ideas on how to do it as there are modelers. Each has their own trick and techique; this section is to explain a few of the more "common" ones, as well as provide a source for some of the rigging material. There are a few ways to rig your models. One of the favorites is to drill holes all the way through the area where the rigging will be. Glue the rigging in one of the holes, wait for it to dry, then pull it through the other hole. Glue, again wait for it to dry, then cut off the excess. Finally, if the parts need it, fill the hole and continue. Another popular method is to use a pair of architectual dividers (found in any art or architect store) to measure the precise distance of where the rigging is to be. Cut your rigging source a little longer than what the dividers show, then through trial fitting, cut the rigging to the exact length needed. 1. Stretched Sprue. There are a lot of people who stretch sprue for rigging. Stretching sprue becomes an art. To start, you want to get the right color of sprue (most agree on a gray, or steel color), and you want to get a lot of it. It is wise to practice first. Start by holding the sprue above a lit candle, say two to three inches. When the sprue gets warm, and starts to sag, pull it *gently* until you have the desired thickness. After pulling, be sure to keep the sprue away from the candle, otherwise the sprue will melt. Again, practice is important. There will come a time where you'll be able to pull the same thickness consistently. 2. Real wire. Some individuals use real wire for rigging. Depending on your scale, you want to choose a thickness that looks like it's about to scale. Note that just because a certain "brand" is listed under a specific scale does *not* mean that "brand" can only be used on that scale. Here are some ideas, plus their sources: a. 1/72nd scale: i. .006" Detail Associates Brass "Rod", product number xxxx This is used in conjunction with a product called "Blacken It" (unless you want to keep the rigging a bronze color), and both are found in the model rairoad section of your hobby shop. ii. .004" Carbon Steel Wire This is availble through Sopwith Hobbies, P.O. Box 560442, Miami, FL, USA, 33256-0442 (email is sopwith@worldnet.att.net). It comes in a pack of three strands of 55" each strand for (as of 24 Oct 96) US$5.95 per pack. Add US$3.00 for postage and handling. b. 1/48th scale: .006" Ceramic "wire", product number xxxx This appears to be available only through Precision Enterprise, Inc. A pack containing x number of inches is US$5.95. Add US$3.00 for postage on two packs. VIII. Scale Conversions for Photocopy Purposes To easily convert from one scale to another in regards to reducing or enlarging drawings etc. using a photocopier, visit http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/scalecon.html and follow the instructions. IX. Sources for Scale Plans To help with the many questions regarding scale plans for a particular subject, the list below provides most known sources of scale plans. Note that this list is geared toward the plastic modeler; however, it should be easy to take these plans and using a photocopier reduce or enlarge to fit any scale (see Section VIII. above). 1. Flying Machines Press - Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of World War One ISBN 0-9637110-0-8 (1993) - The Imperial Russian Air Service ISBN 0-9637110-2-4 (1995) - French Aircraft of the First World War ISBN 0-9637110-4-0 (1997) 2. The German Giants 'The German R-Planes 1914-1918' ISBN 0 85177 812 7 (1988) 3. Harleyford Series - Fighter Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War ISBN 60-11220 (1960) - Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War (ISBN needed) - Naval Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War (ISBN Needed) 4. Scale Aircraft Drawings Volume 1 - World War 1 ISBN 0-911295-02-X (1986) older drawings from Model Airplane News some drawn as early as 1948 5. Windsock Datafiles Series has both 1/72 and 1/48 scale drawings 6. Airplane Engine Encyclopedia, Angle, Glenn D., 1921 The Otterbein Press. Try your inter-library loan. 7. Revell, Alex, High in the Empty Blue, ISBN 0-9637110-3-2 8. Sturtivant, Ray and Gordon Page, The S.E. 5 File, ISBN 0-85130-246-7 9. Sturtivant, Ray and Gordon page, The Camel File, ISBN 0-85130-212-2 10. Motorbooks International - Aircraft Archive Aircraft of World War One Volume 1, ISBN 0-85242-983-5 (1989) - Aircraft Archive Aircraft of World War One Volume 2, ISBN 0-85242-984-3 (1989) - Aircraft Archive Aircraft of World War One Volume 3, ISBN 0-85242-998-3 (1989) X. Known Problems with Model Manufacturers Currently, one manufacturer seems to stick out from others with questions generated on the list. Meikraft models is a good source of WW1 limited run models; however, some people in the past have had problems dealing direct with them. For more information about Meikraft's ordering policy, please contact the list. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1567 **********************