WWI Digest 893 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Nieuport by infosilver@czechia.com 2) Re: German Purple (was RE: WWI wins big. etc) by "Sandy Adam" 3) Re: comparing the journals/mag by "Sandy Adam" 4) Re: German Purple (was RE: WWI wins big. etc) by "Sandy Adam" 5) Re: Seats - was New guy: interior colours by "Sandy Adam" 6) SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by Steve Borland 7) Re: Glencoe Nieuport N.28 by "Charles Duckworth" 8) Re: Glencoe Nieuport N.28 by "Patrick Gilmore" 9) SMER kits, Phalz non-silver finish by perrysm@juno.com 10) Re: Nieuport by mbittner@juno.com 11) Help! by mbittner@juno.com 12) Re: Help! by DavidL1217@aol.com 13) Re: Help! by Kenneth Hagerup 14) Re: Help! by Kenneth Hagerup 15) Re: Help! by Alberto Rada 16) Re: Seats - was New guy: interior colours by "D. Anderson" 17) Re: SMER kits, Phalz non-silver finish by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 18) Re:Pfalz non-silver finish by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 19) Re: Re:Pfalz non-silver finish by "Patrick Gilmore" 20) Re: German Purple (was RE: WWI wins big. etc) by Matthew Zivich 21) Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by Matthew Zivich 22) Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by KarrArt@aol.com 23) Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by Ernest Thomas 24) Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by Matthew Zivich 25) Re: Help! by "Lee Mensinger" 26) Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 27) Re: Caudron G.3 by BStett3770@aol.com 28) RE: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? by Shane Weier 29) RE: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? by Bob Pearson 30) Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by KarrArt@aol.com 31) Re: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? by KarrArt@aol.com 32) Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 08:01:50 -01 From: infosilver@czechia.com To: wwi Subject: RE: Nieuport Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:03:27 -0500 mbittner@juno.com wrote: >Does anybody have any word on when the Toko Nie.11 kit is supposed to >show up? I have a million (ok, maybe not *that* much :-)) schemes I want >to do, and need to buy cases of the kit. :-) First samples of Toko 1/72 Nie.11 & Sopwith Snipe kits will be available in the fourth week of February. I'll be posting a quick in-box review immediately. Ivan Subrt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:59:10 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: German Purple (was RE: WWI wins big. etc) Message-ID: <199802151118.LAA16536@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Humbrol makes a purple (#68) that I used on my Fok. D-VI (according to > Munson) which worked out well. ............. > > Matt Z. I think 68 is pretty good too, but again they have discontinued a matt purple which I thought was spot-on. Can't remember the # as it's finished now (not the WW1 purple (magenta)). Every time I find a dusty model shop now, I look for old paints as well as old kits! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:54:38 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: comparing the journals/mag Message-ID: <199802151118.LAA16532@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > Does anyone know how to contact these journals/mags (to subscribe/query) > via email? > > C&C ? Joey, the C&C web page (link from Al's links) gives all the C&C details. FWIW, I find C&C swings from one issue being very dry and of peripheral interest only, to the next which supplies exactly what I'm looking for. It tends to concentrate articles on an individual pilot or unit although there have been superb issues on subjects like Dornier aircraft. If you want to try it, I'd suggest you look at the web page index of volumes/issues; pick one of the volumes available on a special deal and send of for it - you get four issues for 8.50GBP that way. Probably the issue that contains the big fold-out plans for the Canadian Jennies would suit you? (BTW the current SMI has 1st part article on converting the Lindberg Jenny to a Canuck.) Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:46:23 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: German Purple (was RE: WWI wins big. etc) Message-ID: <199802151118.LAA16528@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > > Humbrol did a lovely red-brown that I used for a Roland D.II amongst > > others and of course, as is their wont, they have now stopped making > > it!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Is that the red/brown in tin #100? That is bad news if they stoped > making that color. It's my favorite base color for leather. > I'm going to my local hobby shop right now to stock up on a few tins. > Ernest #100 Matt Red Brown is still in production Ernst, have no fear, but the one I used was #133 - a perfect German Rotbrun - no more! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:11:08 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Seats - was New guy: interior colours Message-ID: <199802151118.LAA16540@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Remember, of course, that while the seat back and sides were > aluminum, the bottom portion of the seat was plywood. Doing the > entire seat in natural metal would not be accurate. > > Cheers and all, Bill Different plane of course, but I was most disappointed when I got hold of the seat from Noth's Albatros as it was a very cheap looking affair. The seat and back were plywood, with circular holes cut out of the back to lighten it. It was covered with an "imitation leather" type plasticky fabric which was black but you could see a dark brown undercolour showing through. The back was stuffed with horsehair which stuck out of the seams. Some of this fell out and the curator gave me a few strands - I'm trying to think where I can incorporate this into a model somewhere (bungee chord or something?) BTW - welcome to the list Dane Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:26:20 +0100 From: Steve Borland To: wwi Subject: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <34E6DEEB.474D927@vip.cybercity.dk> Can someone perhaps post some information on the various SMER kits available? For example, is the SMER Camel from the same moulds as the Aurora/Monogram kit? Is the Avro 504 kit from the Inpact moulds? Are they any good? I ask because on digging out the Momogram Camel, the engine is a very fine piece of moulding. Was this part of the retooling for the re-issue under the Monogram label, is it present in the SMER issue? On a somewhat different topic, I have long had a desire to build a Pfalz DIII, but am put off by the thought of doing the silver dope. I do not have a airbrush, and silver is such a tricky colour to brush on. Does the Eduard kit have markings for a non-silver machine? Thamks for any help you lot can supply. Steve Borland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 07:44:34 -0600 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: Subject: Re: Glencoe Nieuport N.28 Message-ID: <199802151348.HAA16156@mail.primary.net> Patrick - thanks for your notes on the Glencoe model - am going to take your advice and relay the stringers with brass wire. Have the top wing modified so I'm committed to take the next step. Saving my 'Blue Max' fund for the Roland. Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:08:01 -0500 From: "Patrick Gilmore" To: Subject: Re: Glencoe Nieuport N.28 Message-ID: <199802151510.KAA04714@sulaco.novagate.net> > Patrick - thanks for your notes on the Glencoe model - am going to take > your advice and relay the > stringers with brass wire. Have the top wing modified so I'm committed to > take the next step. Saving > my 'Blue Max' fund for the Roland. > Charlie > > Good luck on the effort! Still, if you ever have the extra $$ and are a N28 fan you should look at the Blue Max kit - it really makes the Glencoe look like it is 40 years old..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:13:16 -0500 From: perrysm@juno.com To: wwi Subject: SMER kits, Phalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <19980215.101316.20854.0.perrysm@juno.com> Can someone perhaps post some information on the various SMER kits available? For example, is the SMER Camel from the same molds as the Aurora/Monogram kit? Is the Avro 504 kit from the Inpact moulds? Are they any good? I just picked up both the Smer Camel and Avro 504K. Currently building the Camel. I had to hack about 3/16" in length and 3/32 in width from the fuselage and shorten the span by 3/16" and the chord by 1/16 to approximate the dimensions given on the 1947 William Wylam drawings. The tail feathers seem about right. The upper wing has the early squared off 1F1 cutout. The kit lacks a windscreen and is real shy of cockpit detail around where the windscreen goes. The engine is recognizable as a Clerget 130 hp, but I replaced it with an Aero club metal one which required that the cowl be sanded on the inside to make room. The Wylam drawings had good cockpit detail, so I broke out the 1/64" plywood and wooden coffee stirrers and scratched a varnished wood cockpit interior. There were raised decal markings but these were less pronounces than some I've seen and sanded off easily. There were what were supposed to be control horns on the upper surface of the elevator and the lower surface of the elev/stab had very light surface detail in contrast with upper surfaces. The example of the Smer Avro 504K I got hold of makes the Glencoe Albatrosses look like Accurate Miniatures kits in comparison. The decal markings were molded there to stay. ( I used to think that was so nice of the model makers cause it made it easy to figure out where to put the decals......I was 7 then), There are huge & deep dimples in the rear fuselage pieces. Somehow some solvent or acid has been spilt on both wing(darn it I'm gonna have to drag out the kit and look) yeah the bottom and top of the upper wing and the rt fuse half. This will take major work.I don't know if this defect is unique to my example or not. In general the details are crisper than the Camel kit. It also has a windscreen that comes in it's own plastic bag. As to whose molds these are I haven't a clue. I do offer these observations . The pilot figures are different. Camel driver is bigger 15%? lowered goggles, walrus moustashe and both hands in his lap. the the pair in the 504K have heads that look like 1/48 versions of the famous flat faced, bug eyed Martians that used to come in Airfix kits. One has both hands in his lap and the other has one hand gripping a nonexistant stick and the other on his knee. Both have severe mold dimples, either that or this is the best example of accurate Archie hits that I've ever seen. The two molds seem to me to be the work of different artists. That may or may not preclude them from both being Aroura. Having pointed out all the faults I must say that I think Smer kits are an excellent value. I recently purchased the double kit, Alb DIII and Sopwith Tripe. The Tripe had no raised decal markings and is a joy to build. Steve, having just gotten my airbrush back I/S, I know how you feel. I used Testors aluminum metaliser in the spray can. Buff it to taste and then cover it with the metalizer sealer also available in spray cans. Once dry the sealer takes decals well. sp _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:17:13 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Nieuport Message-ID: <19980215.092608.13806.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:12:45 -0500 infosilver@czechia.com writes: >First samples of Toko 1/72 Nie.11 & Sopwith Snipe kits will be available in >the fourth week of February. I'll be posting a quick in-box review immediately. Super. That means I should be able to get my first case of Nie.11's sometime in March. Hey, I wonder if I'll get any cases for my birthday? :-) Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:29:33 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Help! Message-ID: <19980215.092934.13806.2.mbittner@juno.com> This is a repost. I don't remember seeing my original post. My brain is dead. I have the control stick on the Nie.16 mounted toward the left (port). In what position should he aileron's be? Which side up and which side down? TIA! Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:34:32 EST From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Help! Message-ID: <150e57c2.34e70b0b@aol.com> If the stick is tilted for a left bank, the left aileron is up, the right down to the degree of the tilt. (i.e. shallow bank vs. steep) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:39:35 -0600 From: Kenneth Hagerup To: wwi Subject: Re: Help! Message-ID: <34E70C36.67DC@prodigy.net> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > My brain is dead. I have the control stick on the Nie.16 mounted toward > the left (port). In what position should he aileron's be? Which side up > and which side down? TIA! If the stick is to the left, the pilot wants the airplane to roll to the left. More lift is needed on the right wing, less on the left. The right aileron is down, the left aileron is up. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:42:04 -0600 From: Kenneth Hagerup To: wwi Subject: Re: Help! Message-ID: <34E70CCC.7E74@prodigy.net> DavidL1217@aol.com wrote: > > If the stick is tilted for a left bank, the left aileron is up, the right down > to the degree of the tilt. (i.e. shallow bank vs. steep) I think the degree of aileron control surface delection relates to the rate of roll, not the final bank angle. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:00:57 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Help! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980215130057.00f7d2e8@pop.true.net> Hi Matt Left Up, Right Down, Your plane is supposedly resting on the ground, so ailerons should be flush and stick in the middle, but you can live then like that from time to time , and it looks much better. SALUDOS Alberto At 10:33 AM 15-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >This is a repost. I don't remember seeing my original post. > >My brain is dead. I have the control stick on the Nie.16 mounted toward >the left (port). In what position should he aileron's be? Which side up >and which side down? TIA! > > >Matt Bittner > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:39:46 -0700 From: "D. Anderson" To: wwi Subject: Re: Seats - was New guy: interior colours Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980215103946.006b53b0@cadvision.com> At 06:31 AM 15/02/98 -0500, you wrote: >BTW - welcome to the list Dane >Sandy > > Thanks; I'm glad to be here. Dane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:51:55 -0800 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: SMER kits, Phalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <34E72B3B.37AF@ricochet.net> perrysm@juno.com wrote: > For example, is the SMER Camel from the same molds as the Aurora/Monogram kit? I believe so... >Is the Avro 504 kit from the Inpact moulds? Are they any good? Depends on your definition: good value, yes. As has been previously noted, the Avro needs a LOT of body work (this has discouraged me every time I open the box) and perhaps a replacement engine, but it will do as a basis for a nice 504. Only 1/48 injection kit of this one available and much easier to rig in 'balloon scale'. >Wylam drawings. While by no means a scale snob, I respectfully submit that these are not the most accurate on which to base alterations... > There are huge & deep dimples in the rear > fuselage pieces. Also, the rear fuselage is not tapered to a 'knife edge' as it should be. >Somehow some solvent or acid has been spilt on both wing(darn it I'm >gonna have to drag out the kit and look) yeah the bottom > and top of the upper wing and the rt fuse half. This will take major > work.I don't know if this defect is unique to my example or not. Unfortunately, it is not as my specimen also has this schmutz-must be damage to the toolings. >the famous flat faced, bug eyed Martians that used to come in Airfix >kits. I thought these guys looked like refugees from the Outer Limits as well! >I recently purchased the double kit, Alb DIII and Sopwith Tripe. The >Tripe had no raised decal markings and is a joy to build. It should be; its the Eduard molds w/o photo etch. FWIW, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:11:38 -0800 From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Re:Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: At 08:10 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On a somewhat different topic, I have long had a desire to build a Pfalz DIII, but am >put off by the thought of doing the silver dope. I do not have a airbrush, and silver >is such a tricky colour to brush on. Does the Eduard kit have markings for a >non-silver machine? > >Thamks for any help you lot can supply. >Steve Borland > The Eduard kit comes with decals for the silbergrau machine of Alfred Lenz of Jasta 22 and it's crosses do not have the white border. It also comes with decals for Rudolf Berthold's winged cross machine in red and blue Jasta 15 colors and these crosses do have the white border. However, the under-surfaces of the wings would remain in silbergrau. For Berthold's machine, the decals provided by Eduard depict the rudder crosses as having been changed to balkenkreuze while the wing crosses have remained iron crosses. Are there any photos documenting this particular cross combination for Berthold's machine during a certain period of time during the change of the cross styles? Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:07:12 -0500 From: "Patrick Gilmore" To: Subject: Re: Re:Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <199802152109.QAA21198@sulaco.novagate.net> > For Berthold's machine, the decals provided by Eduard depict the rudder > crosses as having been changed to balkenkreuze while the wing crosses have > remained iron crosses. Are there any photos documenting this particular > cross combination for Berthold's machine during a certain period of time > during the change of the cross styles? > > Fernando Lamas > > I have only seen one photo of this aircraft and as I remember the wing crosses were not visible. It does seem likely that the wing crosses would have been converted along with the fuselage crosses. BTW as far as I know this aircraft was a DIIIa not a DIII. Patrick Gilmore ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:11:48 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: German Purple (was RE: WWI wins big. etc) Message-ID: Fortunately there are several model shops around here that still have ancient Humbrol display racks with dusty little cans containing every nuance of colors imaginable. Mulitples of certain non-popular colors (German WWI Purple, WWI British Green) are often placed on sale & I try to load-up. Amazingly, despite their age & the pry-off lids, virtually all of the contents of these weathered cans are in very good shape after a good shaking and stirring. Matt Z. On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Sandy Adam wrote: > > Humbrol makes a purple (#68) that I used on my Fok. D-VI (according to > > Munson) which worked out well. ............. > > > > Matt Z. > > I think 68 is pretty good too, but again they have discontinued a matt > purple which I thought was spot-on. Can't remember the # as it's finished > now (not the WW1 purple (magenta)). > Every time I find a dusty model shop now, I look for old paints as well as > old kits! > Sandy > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:25:14 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: Steve, I'm sure you'll get many responses about the Smer line (check their website @ Silverbird). I recently finished a Glencoe Pfalz D-III(a) in the standard silver-grey finish & I too brush only. I tried a brushing technique using small circular brush strokes to diffuse any tendency the paint (alum. & grey matte) might have had to streak. You have to overcome the natural tendency to want to use long strokes that either run parallel or perpend. to the axis of the plane. (This craft was a conversion job.) Matt Z. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:57:46 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <4232b00e.34e764dc@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-15 08:08:03 EST, you write: For example, is the SMER Camel from the same moulds as the Aurora/Monogram kit? I ask because on digging out the Momogram Camel, the engine is a very fine piece of moulding. Was this part of the retooling for the re-issue under the Monogram label, is it present in the SMER issue? On a somewhat different topic, I have long had a desire to build a Pfalz DIII, but am put off by the thought of doing the silver dope. I do not have a airbrush, and silver is such a tricky colour to brush on. Does the Eduard kit have markings for a non-silver machine? Thamks for any help you lot can supply. Steve Borland No, the SMER Camel was another "pirated" kit originally done decades ago (Merit?) The Aurora molds went to Monogram and have never been released under the SMER name. The Pfalz silver gray was probably really more gray than silver and contemporary reports describe it as being somewhat thin, uneven and smeary- might not look good on a model, but a lousy paint job would be accurate! I can't find it at the moment but one particular photo shows this feature well and the finish looks like it done by a finger-painting child. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:17:56 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <34E76994.2C05@bellsouth.net> Steve, If you can't bring yourself to do the accurate sloppy silver/grey pfalz recomended by Robert K, I, too, was very pleased with the results of the Testors Metalizer aluminum spray and sealer recomender earlier in this thread. Happy modeling. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:33:34 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: Robert: Wasn't the Smer Camel, et. al. orginally descended from the Aurora "prototype"? (There was a thread on this subject not too long ago.) In any case, I have an orginal Aurora Camel and 2-3 yrs ago I purchased a Smer Camel to convert to a 2F-1 "Sea Camel". (I used the notorious Wylem drawings & photos of the Imp.War Mus. Camel as guides.) With the exception of minor detail (markings in relief) I failed to detect any other distinction between these two Camels. Matt Z. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:02:17 -0600 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi, mbittner@juno.com Subject: Re: Help! Message-ID: <34E78208.8AD3C409@wireweb.net> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > This is a repost. I don't remember seeing my original post. > > My brain is dead. I have the control stick on the Nie.16 mounted > toward > the left (port). In what position should he aileron's be? Which side > up > and which side down? TIA! > > Matt Bittner > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Matt, with Stick left, left airleron is up, right down and vice versa. Aileron up means wing down on the appropriate side.I got my non-receipt fixed... I knew you did not control but I thought you might know what happened. Like a server died... Thanks anyway.. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:12:18 -0800 From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? Message-ID: At 05:01 PM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >The Pfalz silver gray was probably really more gray than silver and >contemporary reports describe it as being somewhat thin, uneven and smeary- >might not look good on a model, but a lousy paint job would be accurate! I >can't find it at the moment but one particular photo shows this feature well >and the finish looks like it done by a finger-painting child. >Robert > Since I am working on the Pfalz D.III right now...... What is the consensus for a mix of gray and aluminum to end up with a semi-accurate silbergrau. One of Steves Hustad's models on the WW I modeling page, a Pfalz D.VII, has a silbergrau mix of 1/3 medium blue-gray and 2/3 flat aluminum. However, that model is a lot bluer than I would expect silbergrau to look like. Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:17:32 EST From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Caudron G.3 Message-ID: <84b72c2b.34e7859e@aol.com> Hi Kevin The G-3 is one of our discontinued Vac form kits. We hope to reissue it late this year with resin prop, wheels etc. Keep Modeling Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:30:47 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? Message-ID: <199802160042.KAA18040@mimmon.mim.com.au> Fernando posts: > What is the consensus for a mix of gray and aluminum to end up with a >semi-accurate silbergrau. One of Steves Hustad's models on the WW I >modeling page, a Pfalz D.VII, has a silbergrau mix of 1/3 medium blue-gray >and 2/3 flat aluminum. However, that model is a lot bluer than I would >expect silbergrau to look like. Steve posted the following on this very subject on Wednesday, 27 March 1996 at 1:14 " My Pfalz D.VIII in 1/72 that I just finished and had on display at " KC-Con '96 had the typical Pfalz 'Silbergrau' fuselage. I painted this " thus; 2 parts Testors Flat Aluminum (#1181 from the 1/4 oz. jar). " 1 part Testors Model Master Medium Gray, FS35237 (#1721 inthe " 1/2 oz. jar). " I won't claim that this is 100% accurate, but it looks good to my eye. " I finished it off with Testors Dullcote lacquer. Dulls the silver, but " gives a good/better scale effect. I don't know how "blue" FS35237 actually is, but his ratio is good. The real stuff was made of aluminium powder, lamp black and zinc oxide which would give a pure neutral grey, perhaps warmed *slightly* by the medium. FWIW I use whichever medium neutral grey is at hand and mix to what looks okay to me at the time. Be careful BTW about inferring colour from the web page (or any photograph whatever) since colour casts will mess you up every time Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:42:20 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: RE: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? Message-ID: <00422084703393@KAIEN.COM> One other thing about web pages is they only have 216 common colours between all platforms and will attempt to fill in the rest with various colours to try and approximate the original colour. I know I was shocked to see how my profiles appeared on a low end IBM monitor - most of the PC10 had changed to black. regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: Shane Weier > Be careful BTW about inferring colour from the web page (or any > photograph whatever) since colour casts will mess you up every time > > Shane > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:56:36 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <5f3beddb.34e78ec6@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-15 18:34:16 EST, you write: << Robert: Wasn't the Smer Camel, et. al. orginally descended from the Aurora "prototype"? (There was a thread on this subject not too long ago.) In any case, I have an orginal Aurora Camel and 2-3 yrs ago I purchased a Smer Camel to convert to a 2F-1 "Sea Camel". (I used the notorious Wylem drawings & photos of the Imp.War Mus. Camel as guides.) With the exception of minor detail (markings in relief) I failed to detect any other distinction between these two Camels. Matt Z. >> The long defunct Merit line form Great Britain managed to almost perfectly duplicate the Aurora Fokker D VII, Albatross D III/V, Camel and I can't remember what else. It's difficult to tell any difference in the pieces and at least the Fokker parts are interchangable. But, they did come form different molds.It's long been a mystery to me why legal action wasn't taken, or if it was, I never heard. Merit's mold makers were genius copiers! ( I believe the Avro 504 and DH-2 pusher were their only origianl WW I items- not bad- I wish they would have continued) Anyway, through the years, the molds have traveled around quit a bit, being with SMER now for I don't know how many years. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:56:37 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Any suggestions for Pfalz silbergrau mix? Message-ID: <58dc0b70.34e78ec9@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-15 19:31:22 EST, you write: << I don't know how "blue" FS35237 actually is, but his ratio is good. The real stuff was made of aluminium powder, lamp black and zinc oxide which would give a pure neutral grey, perhaps warmed *slightly* by the medium. FWIW I use whichever medium neutral grey is at hand and mix to what looks okay to me at the time. >> Sounds good to me- especially the warming effect of the medium - often not taken into account in modeling. Last week I finished the Eduard Pfalz and I haven't a clue about what my proportions were for silver gray.I mixed a neutral from black and white, then just for contrarinous sake, added another small dollop of white, then poured in silver till it was ALMOST noticable.When I glossed the model to prep for decals, I put a drop or two of yellowish-brown in the clear to give some warmth. This was all done in water base paints, and several different brands, mainly Testors and Polly. ( I really must start paying attention to what I mix!).The neat thing about all this is that the model doesn't appear to be the same color when viewed in different light or from different angles- an effeect noted in the French "metallic" colors. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:04:08 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: SMER kits, Pfalz non-silver finish Message-ID: <199802160104.AA11960@ednet1.orednet.org> Steve Borland writes: > >Can someone perhaps post some information on the various SMER kits available? >For example, is the SMER Camel from the same moulds as the Aurora/Monogram kit? Is >the Avro 504 kit from the Inpact moulds? Are they any good? The molds for the SMER Camel, SE.5a, Nieuport 11, Fokker D.VII, Albatros D.III and Fokker tripe originated in the late '50's with an English outfit named Merit. These kits were _copies_ of the Aurora kits numbers 101-106 but they were _not_ the same molds - for instance, some of the parts are laid out differently on the sprues. Merit added two original WWI kits of its own to the Aurora copies - the DH-2 and the Avro 504K. Merit went out of business in the early '60's - probably around 1964 or so - and the molds were sold to an Italian outfit named Artiplast which produced all eight Merit WWI kits plus a new WWI kit original with Artiplast - the SVA.5. When Artiplast in turn went out of business in about 1975 or so, the set of nine WWI molds (6 Aurora copies, 2 Merit originals, and 1 Artiplast original) completed their odyssey and arrived at their current resting place in Czechoslovakia (now the Czech Republic) with SMER. Artiplast was a different company from Aliplast, incidently. Aliplast was the predecessor company to both Supermodel and Italeari and had no relationship to Artiplast other than the similarity of the names. Inpact never did an Avro 504K kit although they did do an Avro triplane. >I ask because on digging out the Momogram Camel, the engine is a very fine piece of >moulding. Was this part of the retooling for the re-issue under the Monogram label, is >it present in the SMER issue? Monogram cleaned up the engine and some other detail parts considerably when it reissued the old Aurora Camel in the early '80's. Neither the original Aurora engine nor the Merit/Artiplast/Smer molding is as good. >On a somewhat different topic, I have long had a desire to build a Pfalz DIII, but am >put off by the thought of doing the silver dope. I do not have a airbrush, and silver >is such a tricky colour to brush on. Does the Eduard kit have markings for a >non-silver machine? Dunno - but the Glencoe kit has the markings for Bellen's green/ mauve/blue example. You could probably pick those decals up for free or at modest cost from someone who built the kit in different markings and has "left-overs". Bellen's markings would not be all that difficult to paint on in any case - consisting merely of a white fuselage band. On the silver, remember that it is silber-grau, not "silver". Mixing about one part light to medium gray with Testors' non-buffing aluminum gives a color that looks about right to my eye and it is _much_ easier to apply, both by brush and by spray gun, than is straight "silver". Cheers and all, Bill -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "If you can see the tracers, the little piss-ants have missed you." Chief Warrant Officer Emet "Stoney" Parker ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 893 *********************