WWI Digest 885 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Tom's Modelwork's by "Sandy Adam" 2) Re: Tom's Modelwork's by Charles Hart 3) Re: Blue 3M tape for masking. by mbittner@juno.com 4) Re: Tom's Modelwork's by Ernest Thomas 5) High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts by "Denest, Michael J" 6) Re: Edmund Thierry by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 7) Re: Edmund Thierry by Bob Pearson 8) Re: Edmund Thierry by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 9) Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts by Ernest Thomas 10) Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts by djones@iex.com (Doug Jones) 11) Jasta 15 D.VII underside colors by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 12) Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts by "Sandy Adam" 13) WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show by Jim Wallace 14) Re: Jasta 15 D.VII underside colors by Joey Valenciano 15) Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show by Joey Valenciano 16) Re: Jasta 15 D.VII underside colors by Ernest Thomas 17) Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show by Ernest Thomas 18) Re: Tom's Modelwork's by Matthew Zivich 19) Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts by KarrArt@aol.com 20) Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show by Alberto Rada 21) Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show by KarrArt@aol.com 22) Fokker D VII"Maria" by KarrArt@aol.com 23) UTD Books by "Douglas R. Jones" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:21:58 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Tom's Modelwork's Message-ID: <199802090020.AAA19097@beryl.sol.co.uk> ......................................> > On the other hand, he does have a few "out of production" kits that will > probably not turn up as injections in the near future. > > His vac 1 1/2 Strutter, resin Halb.Cl.II, Halb.Cl.IV, Nie.9/10 come to mind. > Joey Valenciano Blue Max are doing the Halb Cl.II after the Roland C.II. The Roland should be in shops in the next few weeks (both are 24.99 GBP each) Has Tom's not been bought out by somebody? - I thought that was the reason for discontinuation of everything apart from the Pfalz. Tom sent me an e-mail some time back saying he personally still had some older stock for sale - but they would not be available through the new source (presumably they were not included in whatever deal was struck.) Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:45:52 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Tom's Modelwork's Message-ID: >.....................................> >> On the other hand, he does have a few "out of production" kits that will >> probably not turn up as injections in the near future. >> >> His vac 1 1/2 Strutter, resin Halb.Cl.II, Halb.Cl.IV, Nie.9/10 come to >mind. >> Joey Valenciano > >Blue Max are doing the Halb Cl.II after the Roland C.II. The Roland should >be in shops in the next few weeks (both are 24.99 GBP each) > >Has Tom's not been bought out by somebody? - I thought that was the reason >for discontinuation of everything apart from the Pfalz. Tom sent me an >e-mail some time back saying he personally still had some older stock for >sale - but they would not be available through the new source (presumably >they were not included in whatever deal was struck.) >Sandy I thought that the Tom's patterns/ masters/ whatever were sold to Copper State Models in Arizona. Perhaps this is another bit of hearsay/rumor. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:07:53 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue 3M tape for masking. Message-ID: <19980208.202244.5086.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:48:32 -0500 Joey Valenciano writes: >What is this, "Bob Norgen's sanding method"? Sanding the parts using a "wood block", instead of the traditional, flat surface method. I rough out the parts with the "wood block", and, on parts that will be glued together - the fuselage halves, for example - then I will "flat sand". Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:43:57 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Tom's Modelwork's Message-ID: <34DE6DB3.3232@bellsouth.net> Charles Hart wrote: > > >.....................................> > >> On the other hand, he does have a few "out of production" kits that will > >> probably not turn up as injections in the near future. > >> > >> His vac 1 1/2 Strutter, resin Halb.Cl.II, Halb.Cl.IV, Nie.9/10 come to > >mind. > >> Joey Valenciano > > > >Blue Max are doing the Halb Cl.II after the Roland C.II. The Roland should > >be in shops in the next few weeks (both are 24.99 GBP each) > > > >Has Tom's not been bought out by somebody? - I thought that was the reason > >for discontinuation of everything apart from the Pfalz. Tom sent me an > >e-mail some time back saying he personally still had some older stock for > >sale - but they would not be available through the new source (presumably > >they were not included in whatever deal was struck.) > >Sandy > > I thought that the Tom's patterns/ masters/ whatever were sold to > Copper State Models in Arizona. Perhaps this is another bit of > hearsay/rumor. > > Charles > > hartc@spot.colorado.edu I ordered some things from Tom's some months back and as I recall, he said that the molds went to Copper State but it was just a temporary license type of arrangment and he will be producing these kits again when that deal expires. I don't remember how long the agreement was to last but I got the impression that it would only be for a couple of years and then he gets them back. I also remember him saying something to the effect that Copper State had the molds for some time but still hadn't produced anyhting with them and as soon as the licese expired, He would start up production again. But this is all from sketchey memory. Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:33:51 -0500 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'WW1 Mailing list'" Subject: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts Message-ID: <21A9C368581DD011986600805FEABAD4019BD5BC@xch-phl-01.he.boeing.com> While on my ski vacation last week I brought along this excellent account of No. 56 Squadron RFC/RAF. A few items covered are the low reliability of the Lewis and Vickers guns and engine problems. I was really surprised that a pilot could fold the wings in diving too fast. Is anyone familiar with flight test reports of the SE5 and SE5a that outline these problems? I'm planning construction of a full scale replica and would sure like to know how fast I can go! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:08:27 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Edmund Thierry Message-ID: <199802091410.IAA15350@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Mike, Thanks for the offer, but I think I now have most of the information I need. Bob Pearson sent me a profile he did that should give me enough to go on. I did locate a second picture of this aircraft that sheds more light on it now. One thing that I haven't been able to find out is whether or not the roundels are applied to the lower surfaces of the upper wing--does you information indicate anything about this? Thanks again. Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:25:08 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Edmund Thierry Message-ID: <14250815801424@KAIEN.COM> Paul, I would tend to think that the roundel would be on the bottom of the top wing. If you have ever seen the Rhinebeck Nieuport 11 in flight, you would notice how inadequate just a lower wing roundel would be. however that on the bottom of the top wing stands out remarkably well. In addition most (if not all) Nieuports I have seen have the roundels (Matt?) I just checked my source of the profile (Aerodrome Modeler vol?/No?), and Jon Guttman mentions that the inboard two panels of the lower wing are left in aluminum finish, not olive green like the rest of the upper surfaces. regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Edmund Thierry > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:06:06 -0500 > > Mike, > > Thanks for the offer, but I think I now have most of the information I > need. Bob Pearson sent me a profile he did that should give me enough > to go on. I did locate a second picture of this aircraft that sheds > more light on it now. > > One thing that I haven't been able to find out is whether or not the > roundels are applied to the lower surfaces of the upper wing--does you > information indicate anything about this? > > Thanks again. > > Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:48:54 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Edmund Thierry Message-ID: <199802091450.IAA15899@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Bob, thanks for your input: > I would tend to think that the roundel would be on the bottom of the top > wing. If you have ever seen the Rhinebeck Nieuport 11 in flight, you would > notice how inadequate just a lower wing roundel would be. however that on > the bottom of the top wing stands out remarkably well. In addition most (if > not all) Nieuports I have seen have the roundels (Matt?) I thought that this would (logically) hold true, but since logic and actual practices don't always follow through all the time...... (I don't need to be arrested by the "Roundel Police"!) :-) > I just checked my source of the profile (Aerodrome Modeler vol?/No?), and > Jon Guttman mentions that the inboard two panels of the lower wing are left > in aluminum finish, not olive green like the rest of the upper surfaces. The second photo I found is far enough away from the aircraft so that it appears to confirm this. The areas in question are too uniform to be contributed to the green color "wearing off". Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 09:23:01 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts Message-ID: <34DF1F55.7FBF@bellsouth.net> Denest, Michael J wrote: > > While on my ski vacation last week I brought along this excellent > account of No. 56 Squadron RFC/RAF. A few items covered are the low > reliability of the Lewis and Vickers guns and engine problems. I was > really surprised that a pilot could fold the wings in diving too fast. > Is anyone familiar with flight test reports of the SE5 and SE5a that > outline these problems? I'm planning construction of a full scale > replica and would sure like to know how fast I can go! > Mike > Mike, I'm not familiar with any flight test reports. But I can offer some advice. When you start to loose the fabric from your wings, it might be prudent to contact ATC and request a lower altitude:) E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:51:10 -0600 (CST) From: djones@iex.com (Doug Jones) To: wwi Subject: Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts Message-ID: <9802091551.AA09826@deimos.tx.iex.com> > Is anyone familiar with flight test reports of the SE5 and SE5a that > outline these problems? I'm planning construction of a full scale > replica and would sure like to know how fast I can go! I would suggest getting a hold of Leo at WWI Aero. There are several groups flying replica SE5as. I am sure he can get you into touch with them to get this kind of information. Doug -- ------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (972)301-1307 | djones@iex.com ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:57:36 -0800 From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Jasta 15 D.VII underside colors Message-ID: I am starting a Fokker D. VII but would like to avoid tackling lozenge at the current time. I have skull decals for Hantelmann's plane and winged cross decals for Berthold's plane so I am thinking of doing a red-blue-white Jasta 15 color scheme. However, I have not been able to find out about the underside colors on these aircraft. Were they painted (and in what pattern) or were they left in lozenge? Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:14:37 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts Message-ID: <199802091609.QAA16118@beryl.sol.co.uk> > While on my ski vacation last week I brought along this excellent > account of No. 56 Squadron RFC/RAF. A few items covered are the low > reliability of the Lewis and Vickers guns and engine problems. I was > really surprised that a pilot could fold the wings in diving too fast. > Is anyone familiar with flight test reports of the SE5 and SE5a that > outline these problems? I'm planning construction of a full scale > replica and would sure like to know how fast I can go! > Mike I'll have to read HitEB again but from memory, I remember that the original (3?) prototypes were built with a simplified wing cellule which omitted any compression ribs. The wings on one of these folded during testing and killed the test pilot, Frank Gooden. Thereafter the design was altered to include standard type compression ribs and I think new strut attachments - which I thought fixed the problems. I've just finished Douglas' "Years of Combat" where he eulogises the SE5a as the "best fighter in Britain" and comments on its very strong construction - don't remember any other crits of losing wings. But..... if you are building a 1/1 SE to fly yourself, don't blame me! You might want to e-mail Shuttleworth who are very helpful usually about that sort of thing. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:19:03 -0500 From: Jim Wallace To: wwi Subject: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19980209111903.00963100@pop.atl.mindspring.com> I just returned from a whirlwind trip to Florida to the IPMS Space Coast contest. Over 100 modelers entered over 500 models. Of those there were only about ten WWI aircraft. Even so, two 1/28 D.VIIs took first and second in the large a/c category. A 1/48 Sopwith Tripe took first in the Allied 1/48 (which included many WW2 a/c and one N.17). A lone 1/48 E.III took first in the Axis 1/48 category against many FWs and ME.109s. In the diorama category, a 1/72 E.III diorama took first place. In the juniors' aircraft category, a SPAD took first place. And finally a DML Richtofen bust took a third in the 'other' figure category against a DML Rickenbacker bust and several other larger busts. The three 1/72 a/c left empty handed (N.28, Dr.1 and Strip down Camel). I am proud to say I was amoung the winners. jw ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:30:18 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 15 D.VII underside colors Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980210003018.006d2574@philonline.com.ph> At 11:00 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > > I am starting a Fokker D. VII but would like to avoid tackling lozenge at >the current time. I have skull decals for Hantelmann's plane and winged >cross decals for Berthold's plane so I am thinking of doing a red-blue-white >Jasta 15 color scheme. However, I have not been able to find out about the >underside colors on these aircraft. Were they painted (and in what pattern) >or were they left in lozenge? Lozenge...... right, guys? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:44:27 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980210004427.006d4924@philonline.com.ph> >I am proud to say I was amoung the winners. Congrats, but which one was yours? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:32:17 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 15 D.VII underside colors Message-ID: <34DF3DA1.6426@bellsouth.net> Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. wrote: > > I am starting a Fokker D. VII but would like to avoid tackling lozenge at > the current time. I have skull decals for Hantelmann's plane and winged > cross decals for Berthold's plane so I am thinking of doing a red-blue-white > Jasta 15 color scheme. However, I have not been able to find out about the > underside colors on these aircraft. Were they painted (and in what pattern) > or were they left in lozenge? > > Fernando Lamas On Berthold's plane, it was lozenge afaik. E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:35:19 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show Message-ID: <34DF3E57.2B6E@bellsouth.net> Jim Wallace wrote: > > I just returned from a whirlwind trip to Florida to the IPMS Space Coast > contest. Over 100 modelers entered over 500 models. Of those there were > only about ten WWI aircraft. Even so, two 1/28 D.VIIs took first and > second in the large a/c category. A 1/48 Sopwith Tripe took first in the > Allied 1/48 (which included many WW2 a/c and one N.17). A lone 1/48 E.III > took first in the Axis 1/48 category against many FWs and ME.109s. In the > diorama category, a 1/72 E.III diorama took first place. In the juniors' > aircraft category, a SPAD took first place. And finally a DML Richtofen > bust took a third in the 'other' figure category against a DML Rickenbacker > bust and several other larger busts. > > The three 1/72 a/c left empty handed (N.28, Dr.1 and Strip down Camel). > > I am proud to say I was amoung the winners. > > jw Congrats. That's a lot of WWI stuff winning. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:59:39 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Tom's Modelwork's Message-ID: If anyone is interested in a Tom's Nie. 9/10 (Russian markings, skiis, etc. as options) there is one on the shelf at the local store. I ordered one some time ago, but it arrived with an upper wing from a different model. It was even molded in a different color plastic. I rejected the kit and did not reorder but the store keeper misunderstood and reordered. This kit is OK, but I have other demands presently and I doubt if it will sell soon around here at that price (about $30 us). Matt Z. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:06:49 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: High In The Empty Blue and other thoughts Message-ID: In a message dated 98-02-09 08:35:15 EST, you write: << I was really surprised that a pilot could fold the wings in diving too fast. Is anyone familiar with flight test reports of the SE5 and SE5a that outline these problems? >> Typing bleary eyed first thing this morning as I check the List, my fuzzy brain seems to recall that test pilot Goodin(sp?) folded his SE5 wings on one of the early prototypes (operating from a dented morning memory) Robert np: the the droning whoosh of waking ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:33:20 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980209153320.0077b0c4@pop.true.net> BRAVO Looks like WW1 is getting its deserved share SALUDOS Alberto At 11:25 AM 09-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >I just returned from a whirlwind trip to Florida to the IPMS Space Coast >contest. Over 100 modelers entered over 500 models. Of those there were >only about ten WWI aircraft. Even so, two 1/28 D.VIIs took first and >second in the large a/c category. A 1/48 Sopwith Tripe took first in the >Allied 1/48 (which included many WW2 a/c and one N.17). A lone 1/48 E.III >took first in the Axis 1/48 category against many FWs and ME.109s. In the >diorama category, a 1/72 E.III diorama took first place. In the juniors' >aircraft category, a SPAD took first place. And finally a DML Richtofen >bust took a third in the 'other' figure category against a DML Rickenbacker >bust and several other larger busts. > >The three 1/72 a/c left empty handed (N.28, Dr.1 and Strip down Camel). > >I am proud to say I was amoung the winners. > >jw > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:52:23 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI wins big at IPMS Space Coast show Message-ID: <255ac4a.34df7a99@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-09 14:35:02 EST, you write: << BRAVO Looks like WW1 is getting its deserved share SALUDOS Alberto >> Yes!! let's flood the contests! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:34:30 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Fokker D VII"Maria" Message-ID: Howdy all- anybody know anything about a black and white checked D VII with "Maria" written in big white letters across the top wing? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:55:10 -0600 From: "Douglas R. Jones" To: wwi Subject: UTD Books Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980209175509.006a5d78@deimos.tx.iex.com> Guys I had the following msg this afternoon. If anyone called looking for this book it looks like they can accommodate you! Thanks for the wonderful response to this short list I sent out. I promise to get the full list out ASAP. >Would send a message to your club that we have in our possession and >they are all for sale, (68) copies of "Fliegertruppe" 1914-1918, and we >have (193) copies of "Fliegertruppe 1914-1918 Nr. 2" priced at $10.00 >ea. If we run out of the first "Fliegertruppe", we can xerox a copy for >anyone who cares to have both of them for $10.00. I now have a great >xerox machine that copies photographs quite well. > >Before these were found today, I had turned down some callers because >the copies that you listed on the e-mail were sold last Friday. These >enthusiasts will see your message and call me back. > Doug -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (972)301-1307 | djones@iex.com -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 885 *********************