WWI Digest 872 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: PC-10, ETC by infosilver@czechia.com 2) NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS by Patrick Padovan 3) Re: Revell 1/28 D.VII Articles by mbittner@juno.com 4) Re: Revell 1/28 D.VII Articles by mbittner@juno.com 5) Re: PC-10, ETC by "Jim Lyzun" 6) Re: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS by DavidL1217@aol.com 7) Re: PC-10, ETC by "Bill Ciciora" 8) Re: OTF in Phoenix by DavidL1217@aol.com 9) Re: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS by John & Allison Cyganowski 10) Re: PC-10, ETC by KarrArt@aol.com 11) Re: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS by KarrArt@aol.com 12) Unsubscribing. by Crofoot 13) Re: PC-10, ETC by "Leonard Endy" 14) Re: Revell 1/28 D.VII Articles by GRBroman@aol.com 15) Re: PC-10, ETC by GRBroman@aol.com 16) Re: Unsubscribing. by "Mark E. Young, Jr." 17) Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 18) Re: PC-10, ETC by KarrArt@aol.com 19) Re: helping IRA by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 20) Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error by KarrArt@aol.com 21) Re: PC-10, ETC by The Shannons 22) Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error by Ernest Thomas 23) Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error by Bob Pearson 24) Re: Airframe kits by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 25) Re: Airframe kits by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 26) Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 27) Re: Bomb source by "Tom Werner Hansen" 28) Re: Bomb source by "Tom Werner Hansen" 29) Re: PC-10, ETC by "Sandy Adam" 30) Re: Reference numbers by "Sandy Adam" 31) Re: Bomb source by Michelle and Rory Goodwin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 20:50:45 -01 From: infosilver@czechia.com To: wwi Subject: RE: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:51:21 -0500 Shane Weier wrote: >I never tire of noting that after 80 years there's no-one alive who can >say for sure. I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown >(because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I >vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of >brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? > >Shane > Certainly not, I for one am only wondering about the pigments used. Any opinions on German colours from this period? I suspect that with their advanced chemical industry they could use some aniline based colours which would be pretty stable in shade if not in density (bleaching). Ivan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:02:02 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS Message-ID: Greetings: I find it interesting that the most recent issue of FSM contains a full-page color advertisment for Rimmell's Albatross Productions (i.e. Windsock, Data Files, etc.) Reaching out to WWI enthusiasts who may be unfamiliar with these products, I suppose. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:20:07 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Revell 1/28 D.VII Articles Message-ID: <19980130.142118.14278.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:22:59 -0500 Ernest Thomas writes: >Not to mention that it's the wrong scale. Hear here!! Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:21:12 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Revell 1/28 D.VII Articles Message-ID: <19980130.142118.14278.3.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:12:39 -0500 Shane Weier writes: >I don't belong to IPMS (USA or anywhere) so I don't get the journal >and I'm a little puzzled. I know Richard Marmo did a review for the >Journal, but using hex doesn't sound like him to me. Or is this a different >review? The reviewer was Cliff T. Davis. Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:54:26 -0500 From: "Jim Lyzun" To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <34D23E02.1AC3@baynet.net> > I can't recall offhand what the Ian Huntley articles (and some others Robert Archer outlines some of these in "THE OFFICIAL MONOGRAM US ARMY AIR SERVICE & AIR CORPS AIRCRAFT COLOUR GUIDE". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:58:36 EST From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS Message-ID: <7c661899.34d2773f@aol.com> I am happy to hear that Ray is showing interest in Windsock. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:04:04 -0600 From: "Bill Ciciora" To: Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: Someone on this list mentioned olive drab with just a bit of orange. I tried that on my SE5a and was very pleased with the look. Bill Ciciora ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:10:21 EST From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: OTF in Phoenix Message-ID: <13f1141d.34d279ff@aol.com> I will need one for Phoenix. Where can I get one? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:01:41 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS Message-ID: <34D277F5.2944@worldnet.att.net> Patrick Padovan wrote: > > Greetings: I find it interesting that the most recent issue of FSM > contains a full-page color advertisment for Rimmell's Albatross > Productions (i.e. Windsock, Data Files, etc.) Reaching out to WWI > enthusiasts who may be unfamiliar with these products, I suppose. > Regards, Patrick Mr. Rimmell used to advertise in FSM years ago. He also did a very nice article on scratch building a Lloyd C."something or other" a few years ago. Good stuff. Cyg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:25:25 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <44560bcf.34d27d88@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-30 20:05:18 EST, you write: << Someone on this list mentioned olive drab with just a bit of orange. I tried that on my SE5a and was very pleased with the look. Bill Ciciora >> Shane's comment about brownish-green and greenish-brown is on the money.Orange and olive, red and olive- anything like this should do the trick.I've had good results with Testors waterbase "Leather" as a browning agent added to different ODs. An interesting thing about color is that distance not only makes color a little less intense but it also makes them tend to appear closer to their complimentary- red starts looking greenish with distance and green starts looking reddish.Somewhere in all this, the "olive-drabby" colors just sit there and mock us. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:25:26 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: NEW FSM: ALBATROSS PRODUCTIONS Message-ID: <3b48f3cf.34d27d88@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-30 20:17:46 EST, you write: << Mr. Rimmell used to advertise in FSM years ago. He also did a very nice article on scratch building a Lloyd C."something or other" a few years ago. Good stuff. Cyg >> In the November 1990 FSM he did an article about scratchbuilding an LVG C VI. Same issue had the winners from FSM's photo contest- I made it with my 1/48 scratchbuilt BE 2c- got a free year's subscription out of the deal! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:35:57 -0600 From: Crofoot To: wwi Subject: Unsubscribing. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980130193557.007f69f0@computerpro.com> Could anyone help me unsubscribe from this list? I have tried at least three times, but I continue to recieve the letters. Thanks in advance. Tim Crofoot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:37:59 GMT From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <34d27ee2.1954379@legend.firstsaga.com> On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:51:21 -0500, you wrote: > >3. Field variation in paintwork is legion today (in my army days I had a >glossy green truck which was painted with a can labelled *matt*) and I >bet it was no better then. > Method of application also makes a difference is how the colors appear. When we first received our new Hummers (oops, Humvees for the PC type.) they had been spray painted at the factory. Of course at various times they needed touching-up and paints that were an exact match still appeared different when brush painted. This was really obvious when we repainted them sand, by spraying, while in Saudi Arabia. Some of the same paint used for the spraying was kept for touch-ups and again when brushed on the color was distinctly different. If if looks right to you....it won't to someone else....so use it anyway, it's your model! Len Endy lfendy@firstsaga.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:06:45 EST From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Revell 1/28 D.VII Articles Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-30 07:49:11 EST, you write: << When I first saw that picture I thought something was off. Then Ken pointed it out to me: the reviewer used naval lozenge on it. >> Hmmmm, and I just thought he left off that the arrestor gear. :-) Glen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:06:32 EST From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <767aee63.34d2872a@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-30 00:08:03 EST, you write: << I never tire of noting that after 80 years there's no-one alive who can say for sure. I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown (because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? >> ( Late one dark and foggy night) "knock-knock" Shane: " who's there" "It's the color police, throw out your paint tins and come out with your brushes up!" ;-) Glen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:01:46 -0500 From: "Mark E. Young, Jr." To: wwi Subject: Re: Unsubscribing. Message-ID: <34D2860A.19E8@infinet.com> Tim, Is this the Tim Crofoot that was a member of the Dayton IPMS? If so, good to see your name. If not, my apologies for the intrusion. I hope I do not have problems unsubscribing. I jumped in to find some data on a project for the USAF Museum. Had some early results, but nothing since then. I was not aware that every message ever sent to the group went out to all the members on the list. According to the rules I have, you have to write wwi-request@pease1.sr.unh.edu. and put unsubscribe wwi in the text block of the message. -- Mark E. Young, Jr. IPMS/USA 5494 KC-135A - Built When Man Thought He Could Burn Water ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:44:52 -0800 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error Message-ID: <34D29024.6F97@ricochet.net> Has anyone else noticed that the instructions would have you install the charging handles on the Vickers guns upside down? Riordan P.S. Here I am on a friday night typing this- I'm such a geek! No offense to other geeks on the list :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:00:09 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <630f7d89.34d293bb@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-30 20:38:59 EST, you write: << If if looks right to you....it won't to someone else....so use it anyway, it's your model! Len Endy lfendy@firstsaga.com >> Damn right! Unless Trenchard himself drops out of the sky and says "Tut Tut...This won't do at all" any greenish-brown or brownish green should do the trick. For you textural nit-pickers out there (myself included), the Munson Fighter book quotes Ian Huntley about "green shift"- the tendency of the pigments to appear more green in certain conditions when mixed with an oil base medium.The same pigments mixed with a cellulose acetate (dope) look more brown so on machines with both kinds of slop applied, there would be a slight color difference. Robert np-"Happy Trails" by Quicksilver Messenger Service nb- while waiting for bits of the HP 0/400 to dry, I'm simulating the planking on an Eduard Pfalz D III.Where's my medication? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:07:53 -0500 From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: <199801310307.WAA23366@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 11:48 PM 1/29/98 -0500, TPTPUMPER@aol.com wrote: > > Also, wasn't there a parasol version of the Camel? It seems to me I saw >R/C plans available a few years ago . . . . Swallow--right? > Ira is right, I think. There is a parasol Camel in the Camel File. Looks pretty intimidating to me. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:00:12 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error Message-ID: <5709ee09.34d293be@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-30 21:50:25 EST, you write: << Has anyone else noticed that the instructions would have you install the charging handles on the Vickers guns upside down? Riordan P.S. Here I am on a friday night typing this- I'm such a geek! No offense to other geeks on the list :-) >> Dear RedEared'un Not only that but in the tiny Sopwith logo for the 1/48 Baby, "Kingston" is spelled incorrectly! Always a freak... never a geek...oops, my pocket protector just split Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:34:37 -0600 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <34D29BCD.679B@ix.netcom.com> infosilver@czechia.com wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:51:21 -0500 Shane Weier wrote: > >I never tire of noting that after 80 years there's no-one alive who can > >say for sure. I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown > >(because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I > >vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of > >brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? > > > >Shane > > > > Certainly not, I for one am only wondering about the pigments used. Any > opinions on German colours from this period? I suspect that with their > advanced chemical industry they could use some aniline based colours which > would be pretty stable in shade if not in density (bleaching). > > Ivan -- No information about the German dopes and colors, but there is a later Ian Huntley article than was brought up about the Camel. In Volume 10, #6, March 1988, pp 275-7 he discusses the experiments done by the "Doupers" after they re-discovered sun-rot. He goes through the various stages of the development of the dopes and varnishes, and the official and experimental doping schemes for PC-10, Ripolin and Delta and Manders Proprietary Khakis A and B for the RNAS, and also the U.S. development of their own formulations. Yes, if I get some snail mails, and I don't go broke answering the "I'd like one, too's" I can send some copies out. Summarizing his points: The scientists tested numerous formulations of "Protective Colouring" experimental batches, in series PC1-30 and PC31-60, and found that the best sun-rot protection was using PC-12, especially if it was coated over with V84 aluminized varnish. Upon delivering their studied opinion, they were stunned to be told that it was worthless because of camouflage requirements in France. PC-10 gave almost as good a protection, and better overall camouflage. It was made from a somewhat-orangish yellow ochre with a little lampblack -- the ochre tended to get more brownish and red-brown in color as production continued. Six doping schemes were used during the war years, though the last designation (F) was mainly experimental schemes. A(April 1916-late 1916)- 2-3 coats of clear shrinking dope overall, two coats of PC-10 non-shrinking waterproof dope on upper and side surfaces. Undersides in V114 clear, non-shrinking, waterproof varnish. (tends toward 4(F-G)3) B(Late 1916) - Several coats of pigmented, shrinking, non-waterproof dope on the top sides, overall finished with 2 coats of V114 varnish (No underside shrinking dope?) (between 4(F-G)3 and (4-5)G5) C(1917 -- production standardized) -- several coats of pigmented, shrinking, waterproof dope, V114 only used on underside. (roughly (4-5)G5:FS 24087) D(later production standard) -- nitrate-based materials, clear, shrinking fabric primer overpainted with non-shrinking pigmented varnish. Later still, all shrinking pigmented dopes. (same color result as C) E(late 1917 on, large aircraft like the 0/400) -- pigmented oil varnishes applied over clear shrinking acetate or nitrate dopes. (color ?) Scheme F was alternative, experimental scheme for testing new dope formulations. The article says that the finishes looked their most greenish when fresh and tended to weather toward matt brown in color. The RNAS schemes were supposedly only used until late 1916, when PC-10 was freed up for usage by both services. In practice, Huntley says that the Admiralty continued to use their own suppliers long after this, since they had gone to the trouble of getting the supply chain set-up, even though it was officially forbidden after the second Air Board was formed and set their standards through the Aeronautical Inspection Directorate (AID). Ripolin Proprietary Khaki A used the same doping patterns as the RFC official guides at the time of use. The mixture used a yellow ochre (that was not as red-brown as the RFC's), umber, red ochre, carbon black, and Chinese Blue pigments, was lighter in overall effect, very olive green when applied, and resulted in a 3F8 range. Delta and Manders used similar pigments, differing ratios -- their khaki was not as green as Ripolin, but still lighter than PC-10 at roughly 3F3. Delta and Manders made the Proprietary Khaki B for PC-12 type applications, resulting in a roughly (3-4)F3 color. PC-12 (here the article is unclear, due to editing, whether this applies to US or British) uses red iron oxide and carbon black pigments, giving a dark chestnut color of roughly 8(E-F)8: FS 20076 or so. US Khaki No. 160 was derived from the British for USAAC uses. Pigments were yellow ochre and ultramarine blue (instead of carbon black) with a little Venetian red resulting in an applied color of between 20040 and 24087. That's the gist of the article. I am certainly in no position to refute Ian Huntley's scholarship, but I do wonder if he has enough materials to be so specific on the color results. I think my main use will be to paint early Sopwiths with more of a khaki drab and my SE-5a's in more of a 34087 olive drab to 30118 field drab type range. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:46:37 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error Message-ID: <34D29E9D.1E96@bellsouth.net> Michelle and Rory Goodwin wrote: > > Has anyone else noticed that the instructions would have you install the > charging handles on the Vickers guns upside down? > > Riordan > > P.S. Here I am on a friday night typing this- I'm such a geek! No > offense to other geeks on the list :-) Rio, You've had that kit ONE DAY and already you think you're an expert.:-) I guess I'm a geek too. But I'm a geek with a wife and child. While My life is basically over, I am allowed to build models still. So I shouldn't complain. The sex is fun too. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:11:00 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error Message-ID: <04110067793161@KAIEN.COM> And don't forget that Black Prince (N5487) is a single gun Triplane, not a two gun as shown on the destructions. Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- \> << Has anyone else noticed that the instructions would have you install the > charging handles on the Vickers guns upside down? > > Riordan > > P.S. Here I am on a friday night typing this- I'm such a geek! No > offense to other geeks on the list :-) >> > > Dear RedEared'un > Not only that but in the tiny Sopwith logo for the 1/48 Baby, "Kingston" is > spelled incorrectly! > Always a freak... never a geek...oops, my pocket protector just split > Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:17:18 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Airframe kits Message-ID: <199801310517.AA13178@ednet1.orednet.org> Charles writes: > John Tarvin, who kept a WW I modeling flame alive during the 1970's >with his Airframe kits, did a Sopwith Schneider kit I believe. I thought >that it had parts for the Tabloid as well. I erred - rechecking my list, I find a Sopwith Tabloid listed for Airframe - no kit number listed but I'm not sure that all Airframe kits actually had numbers. I don't see a Schneider kit listed but perhaps the nominal Tabloid kit had Schneider parts as well. This is not a kit I remember ever actually seeing. -snips- Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "If you can see the tracers, the little piss-ants have missed you." Chief Warrant Officer Emet "Stoney" Parker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:20:34 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Airframe kits Message-ID: <009a01bd2e07$f71d8e40$5210c2cf@rayboorm> As for the Parasol Camel, I did mean types that were used operationally. :-) Otherwise the list would be a tad longer. John Tarvin, as you stated Charles, produced many many vac forms in the 70's, he still very occasionally runs a few off for some of his customers. He's a great guy to talk to, has lots of stories about various Aircraft (some very funny) and is otherwise very knowledgeable. He has a running love hate relationship with Ray Rimmell. Seems that John didn't like moulding wings single skinned. Ray beleives on wwi-1/72 they should be. So whenever Ray reveiwed John's work he'd always criticise the wings. However John just went on moulding them double skinned. Ray Boorman. (Gillian_Boorman@bc.sympatico.ca) -----Original Message----- From: Charles Hart To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 8:20 AM Subject: Airframe kits >>Hi Ray! >> >>> I now can build just about all the Single seat >>> Sopwiths (Except the tabloid is there a 1/72 of this?) >> >> Didn't I see an article in a recent WWI AERO on converting the Eduard Baby >>or Schneider into a Tabloid? #158, was it? Someone else find the article, as >>mine are packed. >> >> Also, wasn't there a parasol version of the Camel? It seems to me I saw >>R/C plans available a few years ago . . . . Swallow--right? >> >> Having everything in boxes right behind me but still out of reach is so-o-o >>frustrating! >> >>Have Fun!! >> >>IRA > > John Tarvin, who kept a WW I modeling flame alive during the 1970's >with his Airframe kits, did a Sopwith Schneider kit I believe. I thought >that it had parts for the Tabloid as well. He also did a conversion kit >for the Sopwith Swallow and Sopwith Dove. I'll have to dig mine out to get >the details straight on this one. References for these are not numerous. > >Charles > >hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:28:20 -0800 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Black Flight Tripe instructions error Message-ID: <34D2B674.1C31@ricochet.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > And don't forget that Black Prince (N5487) is a single gun Triplane, not a > two gun as shown on the destructions. > Thanks Bob. Now I can justify painting the noses of both Eduard Tripe kits black! Redeardun ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:02:13 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Bomb source Message-ID: <199801310947.KAA25840@d1o211.telia.com> I'd like to draw your attention to Paul's answer. I got the drawings, and they seem doable. Has anybody else seen these drawings? Are they worth doing to the pattern from the Wylam drawings? Are they just American bombs, or what? Tom ---------- > From: Paul Schwartzkopf > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Bomb source > Date: 29. januar 1998 14:41 > > > Could anybody supply me with a good set of drawings for some fo the > > more useful bombs. I'd like to try casting some myself, for common use > > if there's any interest. Tom > > I have a copy of an old Wylam drawing showing bombs. I do not > know if they are accurate (comments from those who are more > educated on the subject?), but could try to send you a copy if you > want. I have a scanned .BMP, but it is fairly large--I could try to > e-mail it to you tomorrow..... > > > Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:00:11 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Bomb source Message-ID: <199801311045.LAA08428@d1o211.telia.com> Would like that very much, thanks ---------- > From: Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: Bomb source > Date: 30. januar 1998 18:46 > > i can send you a scan from the 'bombers' book referenced previously in this thread if you'd like. > > phillip > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Werner Hansen [SMTP:tomwerner.hansen@of.telia.no] > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:51 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Bomb source > > Could anybody supply me with a good set of drawings for some fo the more > useful bombs. I'd like to try casting some myself, for common use if > there's any interest. > I assume there would be no restrictions on sending this kind of "letter > bomb" through the mail. > Tom > > ---------- > > From: Charles Hart > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: Bomb source > > Date: 28. januar 1998 02:34 > > > > >REATON@ccmail.dsccc.com wrote: > > >> > > >> I was looking up some info on wwi bombs for a kit I am finishing. > (frog > > >>vickers vimy) the bombs in the kit are poor. Has anyone heard of a > source > > >>of bombs of the period? Am I missing something here? > > > > > >No, probably not. AFAIK, the only set of WWI bombs are RPM's 'Polish' > > >(German) PuW set. Good for G, R, and maybe a few C-types. > > >You may well have to resort to nicking the bombs (112 lb. size) from an > > >Airfix DH4 or two (these are the ones you're probably trying to cast). > > >Even info on Brit/Allied bombs is rare. This is one of the saving graces > > >of the Phoebus Bombers 1914-1939 book. FWIW, the Revell Camel has a > > >cluster of Coopers. > > > > > >Good luck, > > > > > >Toby > > > > > > Eduard 1/72 Sopwith Baby kit has some spiffy looking bombs with PE > > fins. Can't say what is found in the 1/48 version from this maker. > > > > Charles > > > > hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:21:40 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <199801311140.LAA03030@beryl.sol.co.uk> > I never tire of noting that after 80 years there's no-one alive who can > say for sure. I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown > (because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I > vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of > brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? > Shane I agree absolutely Shane - even if PC-10 were universally the same shade (which it wasn't), by the time you put some bright French sunshine on some of 'em they'd all be different shades anyway. Last time I was on hols (in La Rochelle area) I bought a new map with a purple/pink cover - it lay on the dash of my Discovery for two weeks and at the end the cover was faded pink while the back was still magenta. Big deal - but you'll not convince me any two planes would look the same for long. (PS same goes for lozenges etc - thank goodness for all the different types of loz transfers) Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:22:29 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Reference numbers Message-ID: <199801311216.MAA03690@beryl.sol.co.uk> Hi Peter I spent a coupla days looking up esoteric refs to try to put some meat on the bones of Morrow's numbers and, of course last night, looking up something entirely different, the answers leapt out at me from the most standard ref of all - Thetford & Gray; German A/c of 1stWW. They quote German aircraft numbers for Western Front on 31 March 1918 as follows: Recce & Photo Sections - total 505 All Front-line Sections- total 1,488 (Jastas and Schlachtstas - total 755) If you have based your surmise on Morrow's numbers, I suggest Gray & Thetford shows the opposite: 475 scouts against 336 recce planes on the British Front does not show that the principle aim of the German Air Service was reconnaisance. Since we know that the scouts were used most of the time defensively, these figures support Henderson and many others that the principle aim of the GAS was to knock down allied aircraft. The strength of your point about officers making figures suit their case is, I think, largely anachronistic. Without doubt it has figured strongly in more recent conflicts where press coverage has helped shape strategy, but back in 1917 in a private report, Henderson is surely unlikely to have made such claims - which would actually have damaged his objective. (On the other hand, Morrow has obviously made some pretty arbitrary decisions about what suits his case and what doesn't.) Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:07:52 -0800 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Bomb source Message-ID: <34D34C58.4D1D@ricochet.net> Tom Werner Hansen wrote: > Are they just American bombs, or what? I happened to do some research on early American aerial ordnance when I was working at Edwards AFB on the site of the U.S.A.A.C.'s Muroc Bombing & Gunnery Range. The Wylam drawing's bombs are (apparently) all American and were used between 1918~1939. All but the two largest are listed as WWI types, but the Cooper and the M3 100 lb. demolition bombs were probably the ones used in greatest numbers in WWI. I don't have much data on the other small bombs (chemical and frag bombs) but I suppose they were used by USAAS units at some time or other in France. I believe American air service units were initially supplied with French & Brit ordnance as well as aircraft. The MK-1 50 lb demonstration bomb (bits of these were found liberally scattered around the desert at Edwards) was also used as an incendiary. FWIW, Riordan ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 872 *********************