WWI Digest 870 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Bomb source by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 2) Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS by Patrick Padovan 3) Re: Off topic request by "Tom Werner Hansen" 4) Re: PC-10, ETC by infosilver@czechia.com 5) Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 6) Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS by Allred240Z@aol.com 7) RE: PC-10, ETC by Shane Weier 8) Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 by Bob Pearson 9) Re: RPM Samochod pancerny FORD Tc (Polish armored car kit from by John & Allison Cyganowski 10) Re: RPM Samochod pancerny FORD Tc (Polish armored car kit from by Alberto Rada 11) Re: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) by Alberto Rada 12) Re: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) by Alberto Rada 13) Ryder Collection by BStett3770@aol.com 14) Re: Jenny Sources by "Charles Duckworth" 15) Re: PC-10, ETC by GRBroman@aol.com 16) Re: helping IRA by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 17) Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 18) Re: PC-10, ETC by Kenneth Hagerup 19) Re: PC-10, ETC by "Patrick Gilmore" 20) RE: helping IRA - Tabloids by Shane Weier 21) Re: helping IRA by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 22) RE: PC-10, ETC by Shane Weier 23) Re: PC-10, ETC by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 24) Re: Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 25) Re: Jenny Sources by Ernest Thomas 26) Re: PC-10, ETC by Ernest Thomas 27) Re: Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 by Bob Pearson 28) Re: PC-10, ETC by KarrArt@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:54:41 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Bomb source Message-ID: <199801292156.PAA04497@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> No problem, Tom. I can try to send it as a JPG file. Paul > There's no way you could convert it to JPG? If you open the BMP in a > programme like PaintShopPro (which is the shareware of my choice) you > could save it as a JPG-file and transmit that. If that doesn't work, > by all means send it as a BMP-file. > Tom. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:58:14 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS Message-ID: Dear Paul: well, a few years back, Rimell ran a series of short articles in WS, about this guy in the UK who was researching the original RFC/RAF colors, and had produced a line of enamels which were supposed to be "dead accurate" representations the originals, i.e., PC-10, PC-12, etc. They were available for sale by mail order direct from this guy, who was Aerocam. The interesting thing was, the paint was available for sale in various quantities, including the kind of quantities you'd need to finish a life-size airframe! (Don't ask how enamels would be used on a reconstructed fabric plane, 'cause I don't know!) Mind you, I'm not claiming that these colors are accurate, but that was the jist of the articles. And the fact of these articles appearing in WS as somehing other than an advertisement, seemed to imply Rimell's endorsement of the authenticity of the colors, for whatever that's worth. I don't know if they are still available or not, and I don't have the address here. Perhaps someone else has more up to date info? Was there an "Aerocam-gate" in which these paints were exposed as inaccurate, or. . .? Anyhow, Paul, as far as I know, they are/were only available via direct mail order. If no other info is forthcoming, I'll dig out my old Windsocks, and get the address for you, if you like. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Paul Schwartzkopf wrote: > Patrick, > > I've never heard of Aerocam before. How are they compared to other > products, like Model Master? Also, do you buy them locally, or do > you have a mail order source? Always ready to try new finishes--I > just purchased some Aero Master paints to try for the first time. Thanks. > > > Paul A. Schwartzkopf > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:36:01 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Off topic request Message-ID: <199801292138.WAA02446@d1o211.telia.com> I have the ones in "Aircraft of the fighting powers vol.6" I have no idea how reliable they are. But at least they are 1/72. Let me know if you want them and I'll scan them. Tom ---------- > From: mbittner@juno.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Off topic request > Date: 29. januar 1998 03:10 > > Does anybody have any 1/72nd P-63A plans? TIA! > > > Matt Bittner > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 23:07:27 -01 From: infosilver@czechia.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:55:02 -0500 Patrick Padovan wrote: >Dear Paul: well, a few years back, Rimell ran a series of short articles >in WS, about this guy in the UK who was researching the original RFC/RAF >colors, and had produced a line of enamels which were supposed to be "dead >accurate" representations the originals, i.e., PC-10, PC-12, etc. They Several days ago someone mentioned PC-12 beeing "iron oxide with a little lamp black". Similarly, in some article on U.S. post-WWI colour I have read, that U.S. Olive Drab was obtained by mixing ochre with lamp black and Neutral Grey from zinc oxide white with the latter. Is anybody on the list aware of another information available on original ingrediences/ratios used for other WWI colours? Ivan Subrt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:30:36 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS Message-ID: <199801292232.QAA04878@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Patrick, thanks for the offer. Don't make a special effort to look it up, but if you run across the address, let me know. I probably would not be able to place a mail order (for only paints) for a while anyway. Unless the general concensus of the list is good.... Paul > Anyhow, Paul, as far as I know, they are/were only available via > direct mail order. If no other info is forthcoming, I'll dig out my > old Windsocks, and get the address for you, if you like. > Regards, Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:43:53 EST From: Allred240Z@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS Message-ID: <3c1e8dfc.34d1062b@aol.com> Where did u obtain these, and are there other colors? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:59:14 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <199801292308.JAA14674@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hello Ivan, >Several days ago someone mentioned PC-12 beeing "iron oxide with a little >lamp black". Similarly, in some article on U.S. post-WWI colour I have read, >that U.S. Olive Drab was obtained by mixing ochre with lamp black and >Neutral Grey from zinc oxide white with the latter. All three of the above are quite correct though it's also true that PC.10 was made using yellow ochre and lamp black. In fact, US O.D. is directly descended from the original PC.10 colour. An interesting article on this development was published in Scale Aircraft Modelling by Ian Huntley about 8-10 years ago. >Is anybody on the list aware of another information available on original >ingrediences/ratios used for other WWI colours? I can't recall offhand what the Ian Huntley articles (and some others by Harry Woodman on similar topics) actually cover BUT with a little time to search them out I can probably let you know Regards Shane weier ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:45:10 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 Message-ID: <23451041489457@KAIEN.COM> Kevin, Here than is the Rumpler report so far. For those who don't have this kit it contains all you need to build and display a Rumpler 6B1. Trestles and launching dollys are included, however the wheels are only single sided and could stand replacement with PE ones. The kit is nicely molded with the panel lines being commendably thin. Cylinder heads for a Mercedes D.III are included, but should also be replaced with an aftermarket accessory from your favourite maker. The interior is just a basic floor, rear bulkhead, fuel tank, front bulkhead and control panel, and a seat that is also best replaced. All parts were easily removed from the extremely thick connecting flash (otherwise known as a vacform sheet). The two piece floats went together with a minimum of bother. As did the fuselage halves. However the edges on the port side are a bit too rounded, and need to be squared off. As this is in No-see-um scale I just used the kit interior - a braille one would get the full treatment, but 1/72 gets the nod to those bygone days of yore, when a kit could be done in an evening and damn the seam lines - not that I do that now, I just wish I could :- ). I cut and sanded out the tail components but it would be easier to make new ones out of sheet plastic (probably faster too). I have just begun on the wings, but as I am also working on a bunch of Nieuport profiles, the Rumpler may join the 4 Spitfires, Sopwith Triplane, Felixstowe, Gladiator, BE2c, SE5a, Camel, W.12 and W.29 in the finish me pile. If not I will update as I progress If the Czechmaster Snipe is anything like their W.12, then I am envious :-) regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:09:04 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: RPM Samochod pancerny FORD Tc (Polish armored car kit from Message-ID: <34D11A20.2B7D@worldnet.att.net> Riordan and Michelle Goodwin wrote: > > The wire wheels are the fly in the ointment. Have to be photo-etch, > and that's beyond my ken. > Hmmm....There is another article in an old FineScale that shows how to fabricate your own wire wheels out of wire. You might be a candidate for the rubber room when you finished, but they would look pretty good. If your heart was set on photo-etch, maybe Fred Hutberg from Fotocut could help you. He makes photo-etch wire wheels, and he should be able to do them for you in 1/35. Cyg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:30:11 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: RPM Samochod pancerny FORD Tc (Polish armored car kit from Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980129203011.00737768@pop.true.net> Hi Riordan There is a Spanish modeling magazine called Modelismo y Dioramas in No. 18 ( 1991 ) they refer to the RR and they refer therein to the model I mentioned, but they state that Glencoe made one in plastic ? and that KMR an Spanish modeling firm, also made one in resin, both being inexpensive. No 3D drawings in the War Cars book, I'll send you also a copy of the booklet ( for much less than a fiver ) SALUDOS Alberto At 11:26 PM 28-01-98 -0500, you wrote: >Alberto Rada wrote: >> there is a booklet on this vehicle, good news, you get a lot of photos and all the color profiles, the bad news, the text is in Polish > >Thanks for the response. What's the title & how much? Does it cover >other armored cars as well? > > I don't know if Squadron still has it, if not and you want it, >> please let me know and I'll photocopy it for you. > >Thanks; I may take you up on this offer if you can copy & send it for >less than a fiver. > > >> On the Rolls Royce Armoured Car, there is a kit in 1/32 all metal by Scale Link, it is a magnificent model but it is also very expensive + than $ 100.00 > >Too rich for my blood. I've been toying with the idea of scratching a >master in 1/35 and either approaching John Cygnowski or one of my local >acquaintances about molding it. The wire wheels are the fly in the >ointment. Have to be photo-etch, and that's beyond my ken. > >> There is a book War Cars, British Armoured Cars in the First World War > >Does this have any drawings of the Rolls cars? > >Cheers, > >Riordan >-- >--------------------------------------- >This e-mail has been brought to you by > - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - > ***************************** > Great Gift Ideas at > Jewels of the Silk Road > http://www.silkroadjewels.com > ***************************** > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:31:01 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980129203101.00738fbc@pop.true.net> So would I Thanks SALUDOS Alberto At 06:07 AM 29-01-98 -0500, you wrote: > >Toby, > >There are 1/35 (I think) drawings of an RR armoured car in an old issue of >FSM from the late 80's. Unfortunately I traded it to a fellow in >Czechoslovakia (as it was called at the time) and no longer have it - >however I would also love a copy of the plans if anyone knows which issue. > >Regards, > Bob Pearson >---------- >> From: mbittner@juno.com >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: Re: Off topic request >> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:57:59 -0500 >> >> On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:32:43 -0500 Riordan and Michelle Goodwin >> writes: >> >> >Got anything on German WWI flamethrowers, RR armored car drawings or >> >the Warcars book? >> >> Nope, sorry. I have been meaning to pick up the Warcars book, but keep >> finding other things to spend my money on. :-) >> >> >> Matt Bittner > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:31:43 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980129203143.00739fa8@pop.true.net> I would like too SALUDOS Alberto At 06:48 AM 29-01-98 -0500, you wrote: >Bob Pearson wrote: >> >> Toby, >> >> There are 1/35 (I think) drawings of an RR armoured car in an old issue of >> FSM from the late 80's. > >I am sure I have this issue in my archive and could dig it up if you >like. Not 'till the weekend though. > >Listed in the Jan. Squadron supplement is a book entitled "Flamethrowers >of the German Army 1914-1918", 1-SH0264, $9.95(US). Just when you think >all the mainstream subjects have been covered...... > >Cyg > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:39:09 EST From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Ryder Collection Message-ID: Hi Gang I mentioned our postings on the Ryder collection to one of my custormers at the shop Monday. Today, he dropped off a list of some of the items for sale. It's only a list of the engines and aircraft. He told me that he was told to make a bid on any items he was intersted in and that they would get back to him in the future. ( He's a pilot for American , building a TM Socut in his garage right now) No prices on the list. Lots of post WWI engines Rangers Etc. and a list of all the replica aircraft. (35 in all) He told me that they were planning to hold out for the highest bids and sell the stuff off from there. Anybody got lots of money burning a whole in your pocket :-) If any one wants a copy. Let me know. It's 15 pages. Keep Modeling Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:00:15 -0600 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: Subject: Re: Jenny Sources Message-ID: <199801300305.VAA22096@mail.primary.net> Regarding the Lindbergh JN-4 here's th book sources I used: Profile no. 37 Aviation Classics from Aviation Quarterly (ISSN No. 0360-8670 copyright 1984). Peter Bowers article on the Jenny on pages 176 to 217 lots of large color and B/W photos and history. Also has article on SVA-9 Resurrection of a Jenny by Chester Peek (ISBN 1-886196-00-1 1994) Nice set of plans for JN-4 - JN-6N in Scale Aircraft Drawings Volume 1 WW1ISBN 0-911295-02-X 1986 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:07:21 EST From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-29 18:16:23 EST, you write: << Several days ago someone mentioned PC-12 beeing "iron oxide with a little lamp black". Similarly, in some article on U.S. post-WWI colour I have read, that U.S. Olive Drab was obtained by mixing ochre with lamp black and Neutral Grey from zinc oxide white with the latter. Is anybody on the list aware of another information available on original ingrediences/ratios used for other WWI colours? >> Well, as a matter of fact, Ian Huntley did an article in Scale Aircraft Modeling ( Jan 86 or Vol 8 #3) called "A Problem Camel". In it he dsicusses the problems in determining the original finish. According to Huntley, the original formulas were not always as they seemed in terms of ingredients. The original spec caled for a mixture of Yellow Ochre and carbon black to make PC 10. It didn't work unles you also mixed in brown ochre. It turns out that the original "yellow ochre" had a strong brown tint. Apparently "yellow ochre" was actually a general term and covered a spectrum of yellow ochre from yellow to deep red. HTH, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:08:12 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: <005601bd2d2c$62583200$5618c2cf@rayboorm> I got the Dolphin from Patrick. Very nice model however I betrayed my scale swapped and Eduard Pfalz for the munchkin scale Dolphin. I now can build just about all the Single seat Sopwiths (Except the tabloid is there a 1/72 of this?) Eduard Schneider Eduard Baby Pegasus 1 1/2 Strutter (I know its a two seater but I plan to finish it as a single seater been two years and still not finished) 3 Airfix sopwith Pups 2 Revell Triplanes, my favorite Aircraft, so much better than the Axis copy :-) 2 Airfix and 1 Revell Camel. (also got the Comic camel conversion from Blue Rider) Pegasus and warbirds Snipe's Pegasus Salamander And now the Czechmasters Dolphin (Looks very nice too) Now I just need about 10 years two finish the models I have on the go and build all of these. Ray Boorman -----Original Message----- From: Kevin & Kimberley Barrett To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 11:43 AM Subject: Re: helping IRA >>Kevin, >> >>What Snipe did you get? >> >>Bob >> > >Bob, > >I got it in trade from list-member Patrick Gilmour - it's a 1/72 Czech >Resin. I also have the 1/72 vac from Warbirds and the Pegasus limited run. >Haven't started any of them (of course), but I'll use the resin as practice >for the Skybirds Halberstadt since I haven't worked on a resin kit yet. > >By the way, I have the Formaplane Rumpler you're working on now - how about >a kit/building review? It would be much appreciated. > >Kevin Barrett. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:21:50 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS Message-ID: <00b501bd2d2e$4de76dc0$5618c2cf@rayboorm> Patrick, who makes Aerocam Paints? I haven't seen them here in Canada. Are good for airbrush and paintbrush? Thanks, Ray Boorman. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 1:09 PM Subject: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS > GENTS: I was stirring up some paint last evening, when it occured to me >that in all of the discussions about PC-10 which I've seen on the list, I >don't recall any mention of the Aerocam paint products. I have their >PC-10, PC-10A, PC-12, NIVO, and RFC Linen colors, and I'm quite happy with >them. I'm no expert on the subject of RFC/RAF colors, but they look fine >to me. What I DO know is, I've had very good luck airbrushing these >colors, which go on easy and, after suitable drying time, have excellent >adhesion. I'm interested in any comments from you as to your opinion of >these enamels, etc. Anybody? > Regards, Patrick > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Patrick Padovan >Interlibrary Loan Associate > >Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 >415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 >Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:24:04 -0600 From: Kenneth Hagerup To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <34D147D4.9B9@prodigy.net> GRBroman@aol.com wrote: > Well, as a matter of fact, Ian Huntley did an article in Scale Aircraft > Modeling ( Jan 86 or Vol 8 #3) called "A Problem Camel". In it he dsicusses > the problems in determining the original finish. According to Huntley, the > original formulas were not always as they seemed in terms of ingredients. The > original spec caled for a mixture of Yellow Ochre and carbon black to make PC > 10. It didn't work unles you also mixed in brown ochre. It turns out that > the original "yellow ochre" had a strong brown tint. Apparently "yellow > ochre" was actually a general term and covered a spectrum of yellow ochre from > yellow to deep red. HTH, Glen Has anyone ever used Testors Model Master Field Drab for PC-10? I have been using Testors Model Master Olive Drab, but I'm beginning to thing it's a tod too green. Field Drab is definitely browner in hue. It makes a good Belgian WWII armor khaki (at least my Ostmodels T-15 looks good in Field Drab.) Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:59:34 -0500 From: "Patrick Gilmore" To: Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <199801300408.XAA23059@sulaco.novagate.net> My personal favorite for PC-10 is the XTRACOLOR version. It is maybe a little too brown and dark but I usually lighten it up a bit with white. Their clear-doped linen, German purple and German dark green are also nice colors that "look" right. Patrick Gilmore ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:34:19 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: helping IRA - Tabloids Message-ID: <199801300444.OAA16785@mimmon.mim.com.au> Ray, > I now can build just about all the Single seat >Sopwiths (Except the tabloid is there a 1/72 of this?) Toycraft Berg made a resin kit. Beutiful but expensive. Classic plane made a vacform which I'm afraid I never saw. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:39:15 EST From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: <40fe7463.34d15975@aol.com> Hi Ray! > I now can build just about all the Single seat > Sopwiths (Except the tabloid is there a 1/72 of this?) Didn't I see an article in a recent WWI AERO on converting the Eduard Baby or Schneider into a Tabloid? #158, was it? Someone else find the article, as mine are packed. Also, wasn't there a parasol version of the Camel? It seems to me I saw R/C plans available a few years ago . . . . Swallow--right? Having everything in boxes right behind me but still out of reach is so-o-o frustrating! Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:47:48 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <199801300459.OAA16832@mimmon.mim.com.au> Glen, You posted (more accurately than I), >Well, as a matter of fact, Ian Huntley did an article in Scale Aircraft >Modeling ( Jan 86 or Vol 8 #3) called "A Problem Camel". In it he dsicusses >the problems in determining the original finish. According to Huntley, the >original formulas were not always as they seemed in terms of ingredients. The >original spec caled for a mixture of Yellow Ochre and carbon black to make PC >10. It didn't work unles you also mixed in brown ochre. It turns out that >the original "yellow ochre" had a strong brown tint. Apparently "yellow >ochre" was actually a general term and covered a spectrum of yellow ochre from >yellow to deep red. HTH, Glen IIRC the article discusses reproducing PC.10 from the original specs. Several points come to mind. 1. The variation in the hue of yellow ochre accounts for the variation of colour of PC.10. You may be interested to know that Napoleons artillery carriages were painted in the same pigments (but with a linseed oil carrier) , a colour which was called "green" 100 years before PC.10 was used. 2. A great deal of research has been done since 1986, by Huntley, Woodman and others. The subject of RFC paint specs is more complex than we understood even 2 years ago. My memory has gone bye bye, but I *think* I recall reading that there are several different paints called PC.10 These may be different in colour, perhaps because of manufacturing or application techniques. 3. Field variation in paintwork is legion today (in my army days I had a glossy green truck which was painted with a can labelled *matt*) and I bet it was no better then. I never tire of noting that after 80 years there's no-one alive who can say for sure. I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown (because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:55:01 -0800 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <34D15D25.553D@ricochet.net> Shane Weier wrote: Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? HEY! Them sound's like fightin' words! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 01:09:57 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 Message-ID: >Kevin, > >Here than is the Rumpler report so far. > Bob, Thanks for the report on the Rumpler! Good luck. By the way, are you using any reference material? What's been helpful for you on this one? Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:14:12 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Jenny Sources Message-ID: <34D161A4.2321@bellsouth.net> Charles Duckworth wrote: > > Regarding the Lindbergh JN-4 here's th book sources I used: > > Profile no. 37 > > Aviation Classics from Aviation Quarterly (ISSN No. 0360-8670 copyright > 1984). > Peter Bowers article on the Jenny on pages 176 to 217 lots of large color > and B/W photos and history. > Also has article on SVA-9 > > Resurrection of a Jenny by Chester Peek (ISBN 1-886196-00-1 1994) > > Nice set of plans for JN-4 - JN-6N in Scale Aircraft Drawings Volume 1 > WW1ISBN 0-911295-02-X 1986 Thanks. E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:27:53 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <34D164D9.3BE4@bellsouth.net> Shane Weier wrote: > > Glen, > > You posted (more accurately than I), > > >Well, as a matter of fact, Ian Huntley did an article in Scale Aircraft > >Modeling ( Jan 86 or Vol 8 #3) called "A Problem Camel". In it he > dsicusses > >the problems in determining the original finish. According to Huntley, > the > >original formulas were not always as they seemed in terms of > ingredients. The > >original spec caled for a mixture of Yellow Ochre and carbon black to > make PC > >10. It didn't work unles you also mixed in brown ochre. It turns out > that > >the original "yellow ochre" had a strong brown tint. Apparently > "yellow > >ochre" was actually a general term and covered a spectrum of yellow > ochre from > >yellow to deep red. HTH, Glen > > IIRC the article discusses reproducing PC.10 from the original specs. > Several points come to mind. > > 1. The variation in the hue of yellow ochre accounts for the variation > of colour of PC.10. You may be interested to know that Napoleons > artillery carriages were painted in the same pigments (but with a > linseed oil carrier) , a colour which was called "green" 100 years > before PC.10 was used. > > 2. A great deal of research has been done since 1986, by Huntley, > Woodman and others. The subject of RFC paint specs is more complex than > we understood even 2 years ago. My memory has gone bye bye, but I > *think* I recall reading that there are several different paints called > PC.10 These may be different in colour, perhaps because of > manufacturing or application techniques. > > 3. Field variation in paintwork is legion today (in my army days I had a > glossy green truck which was painted with a can labelled *matt*) and I > bet it was no better then. > > I never tire of noting that after 80 years there's no-one alive who can > say for sure. I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown > (because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I > vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of > brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? > > Shane Shane, While I can't prove you wrong, I can agree with you 100%. And it applies to all nations and all periods. Especially before the invention the color spectrometer. While I'm not up to speed on any of the research done on lozenge pattern lately, I look at it the same way. There was probably variation from day to day on bolts comming from the same factory. In addition, 80 year old pieces of fabric will not have the same color values as the day they were made. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:37:25 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 Message-ID: <05372518590386@KAIEN.COM> Kevin, Unfortunately I have very little on the 6B1. Riordan sent me the Fotofax book and it has a photo of a camouflaged 6B1 (No.751) and the Putnam book on German aircraft are my lone references so far (besides those on the instruction sheet). Bob ---------- > From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:12:03 -0500 > > >Kevin, > > > >Here than is the Rumpler report so far. > > > > > > Bob, > > Thanks for the report on the Rumpler! Good luck. By the way, are you using > any reference material? What's been helpful for you on this one? > > Kevin Barrett. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:36:18 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC Message-ID: <9ecfde9b.34d166d5@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-30 00:08:03 EST, you write: << I *like* my PC.10 to look brownish/green or greenish/brown (because thats the way I've seen it described by eye witnesses) , so I vary it from model to model with a touch of green here and a touch of brown there. Anyone care to *prove* me wrong??? Shane >> Yep! Whatever olive drab happens to be floatin' around with a spot of some brown. Robert ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 870 *********************