WWI Digest 869 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Mud in your eye. by Ernest Thomas 2) Re: Aeroclub Brisfit/Tom's Pfalz by TPT PUMPER 3) Re: helping IRA by TPT PUMPER 4) Re: Mud in your eye. by Dave Watts 5) Finishing something by huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) 6) Re: New MPM(?) 1/72 W.29 kit by lothar@televar.com (mark) 7) Re: Off topic request by vedrank@pro1.sjever.fsb.hr (Vedran Kalamiza) 8) Re: OT : Hans-Joachim Marseille's Bf 109 F by Mick Fauchon 9) Re: day late by Mick Fauchon 10) Re: Off topic request by mbittner@juno.com 11) RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) by Bob Pearson 12) Re: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) by John & Allison Cyganowski 13) Re: helping IRA by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 14) Re: helping IRA by Bob Pearson 15) Re: Macchi M 5 and " Nieuport Tape " Query by "David R.L. Laws" 16) Re: Bomb source by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 17) Re: reference by fedders 18) laugh by Brian 19) Re: Handley Page 0/400 by GRBroman 20) Re: Macchi M 5 and " Nieuport Tape " Query by Joey Valenciano 21) Re: reference by "Sandy Adam" 22) Re: reference by "Sandy Adam" 23) Re: reference by fedders 24) Re: helping IRA by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 25) Re: OTF in Phoenix by REwing@aol.com 26) PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS by Patrick Padovan 27) Re: OTF in Phoenix by KarrArt@aol.com 28) Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 29) Re: Macchi M 5 and " Nieuport Tape " Query by Franco Poloni 30) Re: Bomb source by "Tom Werner Hansen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:53:52 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Mud in your eye. Message-ID: <34D01970.6D0C@bellsouth.net> Anybody know where I might find a cheap or free copy of this painting?(Mud in your eye) It can be any reasonable size. Any web pages around that might have it. I havn't noticed it on the list web site. Always thought it would make a nice diorama. tia. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:00:10 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: Aeroclub Brisfit/Tom's Pfalz Message-ID: Hi Guys! > SOMEBODY FINISH SOMETHING SO I CAN LIVE MY LIFE VICARIOUSLY THROUGH YOURS!!! > > OK Ira, I'll finish the Ansaldo SVA tonight...it's only taken since October > and is over 1 month late for Christmas. Hope this meets your need for a fix! > Mike Muth > Thanks, Mike! It's a start . . . whew! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:11:13 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: Hi Guys! > Let's all finish a bunch a stuff so IRA will either be satisfied or so > frustrated he'll go on a productivity binge when he gets settled in and make > us all ashamed. > Robert > For now, A.) frustrated. Later, 2.) building binge. (Mostly HO RR freight cars, but building is building, and HO pays my bills, at least until Javier Arango decides he needs me to build his entire collection in [whatever] scale . . . ) In any case, thanks for the thought--much appreciated! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:10:29 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: Mud in your eye. Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980129011029.007d9310@192.168.0.5> At 12:59 AM 1/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Anybody know where I might find a cheap or free copy of this >painting?(Mud in your eye) It can be any reasonable size. Any web pages >around that might have it. I havn't noticed it on the list web site. >Always thought it would make a nice diorama. tia. > >Ernest > Hi Ernest, Dietz commisioned post cards, and one of those was "Mud in Your Eye". If you want, "e" me your snail mail address, and I'll send you one. Or if you want you can contact that "lady" at the Ryder museum, and buy the original for about "in the 8000 range". Sorry, to "Throw Mud in Your Eye", I'm still a bit ruffled by that whole deal down there. Best Wishes, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:32:10 -0600 (CST) From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) To: wwi Subject: Finishing something Message-ID: Ira, It's the wrong war, but I finished the XP-77. I don't know if this counts as it is not for my collection. It is a demo kit for the Neuernburg show next month. If you end up in the Dallas area when you get setteled, drop me a line and say hi. John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:15:46 -0800 (PST) From: lothar@televar.com (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: New MPM(?) 1/72 W.29 kit Message-ID: <199801290815.AAA10445@concord.televar.com> >John Huggins wrote: >> >> >On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:33:49 -0500, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >>Decals went on like a dream though as with all the Propag stuff ,be >> >>quick because it goes down like a White House staffer ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >ROTFLOL for the rest of the night ! >> > >> >Len Endy >> >lfendy@firstsaga.com >> Anybodow the differance between Slick Willie (the Prez) and the Titanic >> >> Only 1,500 people went down on the Titanic. > >What I want to know is this. Will bill have to put a sign on the >whitehouse lawn or an ad in the Washington post warning his nieghbors >that he's a sex offender? Sure, as soon as Newt puts his sign up inside the capitol rotunda... ** (**For the benefit of our overseas brethren, Newt Gingrich, Speaker of the House and prominent anarchist Republican bomb-thrower, faced similar allegations about a year ago....and I always thought it was **the politicians** who sucked...) Man, wish I could work some WWI content into this somehow... MR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:34:52 +0100 From: vedrank@pro1.sjever.fsb.hr (Vedran Kalamiza) To: wwi Subject: Re: Off topic request Message-ID: <199801290834.JAA07107@pro5.sjever.fsb.hr> I have some published in czech Zlinek magazine and Koku-Fan FAOW.I don`t have a scanner,but if You send me Your adress I could mail them to You. Vedran Kalamiza vedrank@sjever.fsb.hr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:27:29 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: OT : Hans-Joachim Marseille's Bf 109 F Message-ID: > My brain just stopped. Not only the Bf 10thingie was mentioned, but so > was Braille Scale! Well, two out of two ain't bad, Matt. 80) Mick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:32:22 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: day late Message-ID: > Wishing belated Happy Australia Day, January 26, to our list members in the > Land Down Under. Thanks, Charles, you're a gentleman. Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:47:22 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Off topic request Message-ID: <19980129.045406.4758.4.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:32:43 -0500 Riordan and Michelle Goodwin writes: >Got anything on German WWI flamethrowers, RR armored car drawings or >the Warcars book? Nope, sorry. I have been meaning to pick up the Warcars book, but keep finding other things to spend my money on. :-) Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:05:34 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) Message-ID: <11053409987867@KAIEN.COM> Toby, There are 1/35 (I think) drawings of an RR armoured car in an old issue of FSM from the late 80's. Unfortunately I traded it to a fellow in Czechoslovakia (as it was called at the time) and no longer have it - however I would also love a copy of the plans if anyone knows which issue. Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: mbittner@juno.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Off topic request > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:57:59 -0500 > > On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:32:43 -0500 Riordan and Michelle Goodwin > writes: > > >Got anything on German WWI flamethrowers, RR armored car drawings or > >the Warcars book? > > Nope, sorry. I have been meaning to pick up the Warcars book, but keep > finding other things to spend my money on. :-) > > > Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:38:49 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: RR armoured car (was Re: Off topic request) Message-ID: <34D06A49.6CCC@worldnet.att.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Toby, > > There are 1/35 (I think) drawings of an RR armoured car in an old issue of > FSM from the late 80's. I am sure I have this issue in my archive and could dig it up if you like. Not 'till the weekend though. Listed in the Jan. Squadron supplement is a book entitled "Flamethrowers of the German Army 1914-1918", 1-SH0264, $9.95(US). Just when you think all the mainstream subjects have been covered...... Cyg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:55:53 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: >Let's all finish a bunch a stuff so IRA will either be satisfied or so >frustrated he'll go on a productivity binge when he gets settled in and make >us all ashamed. >Robert Hey, IRA, Recently finished rigging my poor old Pfalz DIIIa, and have just finished painting the major components of my Baumer 1/48 triplane project. Also, currently researching the Airco DH2 (nice datafile). Cleaning up my Nieu.17. Doing some repainting on a Fok D.VII. Just got new models in of the Snipe and DH5. Hell, you get the idea... Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:59:58 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: <11595894387895@KAIEN.COM> Kevin, What Snipe did you get? Bob ---------- > From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: helping IRA > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:58:24 -0500 > > > >Let's all finish a bunch a stuff so IRA will either be satisfied or so > >frustrated he'll go on a productivity binge when he gets settled in and make > >us all ashamed. > >Robert > > Hey, IRA, > > Recently finished rigging my poor old Pfalz DIIIa, and have just finished > painting the major components of my Baumer 1/48 triplane project. Also, > currently researching the Airco DH2 (nice datafile). Cleaning up my > Nieu.17. Doing some repainting on a Fok D.VII. Just got new models in of > the Snipe and DH5. Hell, you get the idea... > > Kevin Barrett. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:40:15 +0000 From: "David R.L. Laws" To: wwi Subject: Re: Macchi M 5 and " Nieuport Tape " Query Message-ID: <34D1135F.6196@webtime.com.au> Hello to All ! I say, would any of you chaps have a decent pic or a detail GA of the engine mountings and associated strutting for the Macchi M-5 flying boat/ fighter - I have the Windsock Italian types special issue c. 1990 ( thanks again Shane W ) but the photos are not that clear in the article and from what's visible/ apparant the arrangement is reeally quite complex with articulated brackets off the engine mounts themselves, and some kind of a plate adjacent to the rear of the cockpit which is the front mounting point off the fuselage etc... Also, the section of the various metal (?) tubes used in this supporting structure seems to be a variety of semi-ovals and round - Any thoughts or contributions gratefully recieved !! Would also appreciate a 3 view of the Issotto-Fraschini engine ( maybe with colour of pipes, lines and leads indicated [ if known ] !? ), that is if the Issotto on the Italian aero engine Museum site ( Aero Spilada ? ) isn't the very beasty I'm after ( Namely an I-F V4B ) Would also be grateful for a shot of the prop showing the blade tips clearly ( they appear to be tipped/ sheathed and can anyone say if the Italian practice to use brass or steel ? ) and hub plate if there's such a thing about Another and I'm probably being a bit thick but the two ( original factory ) line drawings appear to be of the inst panel/ dash board. One shows the pipe work to the oil and petrol gauges and the other the various name plates identifying instruments and control functions. What is very unclear is where any compass or airspeed indicator or Rev counter ( if these were fitted ) might have been located and what it/ they might have looked like - Finally ( and at last I hear you all say !! ) does anyone have a close-up of the gun porting at the front end of the fuselage /hull for a twin Lewis gun configuration on the M-5 Also, is there an ovalish spent-shell shute between the front gun port and the cockpit or is this just a single flare shute on the port side only ? BTW What is " Nieuport tape " ( on struts ) It appears to be brass strapping or a solid band in any photos I have seen. REGARDS TO ALL DAVID ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:43:51 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Bomb source Message-ID: <199801291345.HAA24132@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> > Could anybody supply me with a good set of drawings for some fo the > more useful bombs. I'd like to try casting some myself, for common use > if there's any interest. Tom I have a copy of an old Wylam drawing showing bombs. I do not know if they are accurate (comments from those who are more educated on the subject?), but could try to send you a copy if you want. I have a scanned .BMP, but it is fairly large--I could try to e-mail it to you tomorrow..... Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:09:28 -0600 (CST) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: reference Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, DavidL1217 wrote: > Pete, > > Perhaps the English were busy replacing all of the Camels that killed there > own pilots. > > David > Yes, Actually I have studied the losses of both sides and have concluded that the Camel may well have killed more Englishmen than Germans. Of course this includes training but after all, dead is dead. peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 10:26:07 EST From: Brian To: Subject: laugh Message-ID: <199801291529.KAA17734@pease1.sr.unh.edu> *** Resending note of 01/29/98 10:09 > >A WW I American soldier had been on the front lines in Europe for >three >>>months, when he was finally given a week of R&R. He caught a supply >boat >>>to a supply base in the south of England, then caught a train to >>>London. >>> >>> >>>The train was extremely crowded and he could not find a seat. He was >>>dead on his feet and walked the length of the train looking for any >>>place to sit down. >>> >>>Finally he found a compartment with seats facing each other; there was >>>room for two people on each seat. On one side sat only a proper >>>looking,older British lady, with a small dog sitting in the empty seat >>>beside her. >>> >>>"Could I please sit in that seat" he asked. The lady was insulted. >"You >>>Americans are so rude." she said, "Can't you see my dog is sitting >>>there"? >>> >>>He walked through the train more and still could not find a seat. He >>>found himself back at the same place. "Lady, I love dogs - have a >>>couple at home- so I would be glad to hold your dog if I can sit >down." >>>he said. >>> >>>The lady replied "You Americans are not only rude, you are arrogant." >>> >>>He leaned against the wall for a time, but was so tired he finally >said >>>"Lady, I've been on the front lines in Europe for three months with >not >>>a decent rest for all that time. Could I please sit there and hold >your >>>dog?" >>> >>> >>>The lady replied "You Americans are not only rude and arrogant. You >are >>>also obnoxious." >>> >>>With that comment, the soldier calmly stepped in, picked up the dog, >>>threw it out the window, and sat down. The lady was speechless. >>> >>>An older, neatly dressed Englishman sitting across on the other seat >>>spoke up. "Young man, I do not know if all you Americans fit the >lady's >>>description of you or not. But I do know that you Americans do a lot >of >>>things wrong. You drive on the wrong side of the road, you hold your >>>fork with the wrong hand, and now you have just thrown the wrong bitch > >>>out of the window. >>> >Michael. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:40:40 EST From: GRBroman To: wwi Subject: Re: Handley Page 0/400 Message-ID: <253b8662.34d0a2fa@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-28 21:47:10 EST, you write: << Well, I doubt it, but I'm tryin'. :-) Kitchen passes are difficult when it's so far away. I'm working around that by taking the Frau. The boys, of course, have been successfully indoctrinated and will be entering models themselves. Alas, no bi-wings yet for them. Give me time..... Will the Renault seminar have interior details? :-) >> Yup, I have slides from the technical manual, a restored example and the Patton Museum vehicle during restoration. I also have a video shot by a gentleman up in Montana of a live fire on a fully restored vehicle. The shots are taken both inside and out. I'm not planning on showing the video, but I will bring it with. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:06:11 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Macchi M 5 and " Nieuport Tape " Query Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980130000611.006f09d4@philonline.com.ph> At 08:38 AM 1/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello to All ! > >I say, would any of you chaps have a decent pic or a detail GA of the >engine mountings and associated strutting for the Macchi M-5 flying >boat/ fighter....... Hi David, Do you think a photocopy of the Hippo Resin kit would help? If so, give me your snail mail please. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:41:06 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: reference Message-ID: <199801291737.RAA04822@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Where I disagree is with the idea that the Germans were primarily > intere4sted in shootin planes down. They were primarily interested in > obtaining good recon information and in driving the Allies from the air > in very selected areas over very short times. they didn't have the > resources to do otherwise. ........ > peter Thank you for your thought-provoking reply Peter, but I'm still with Henderson on this. I agree that the Generals would hardly want to publicly state anything flattering about the enemy, but Henderson's report was confidential to the C-in-C and he also heavily criticises shortages and mistakes and I think less than likely to say anything he didn't believe absolutley. I think he says exactly what he, his commanders and his pilots believed. This same exact viewpoint is stated in many other sources. But I can see that a large proportion of 2-seaters perhaps suggests closer scrutiny of the role of these aircraft. It's certainly got my interest. Problem we (I, anyway) have in verifying that is in the lack of autobiogs of the German 2-seater crews. I read one way back but its a bit grey now and the name escapes me. Certainly McCudden details quite a number of the high-flying rec intruders, but I can find no way of quantifying how many missions this actually means. My belief is that the Germans tended to carry out mid-level reconnaisance near the lines and would (quite rightly) scoot back over if challenged. This was less essential though, since they generally occupied higher terrain and could observe from high points and balloons fairly successfully anyway. They sensibly allocated lone high-altitude solo recs for deeper penetration and these were fairly invulnerable apart from to the occasional perfectionist like McCudden. The British on the other hand couldn't see what the enemy were doing and the BE and RE crews were sent near, far and deep into enemy territory where they took a fearful mauling for no good reason at all. Trenchard thought that sacrificing his pilots would directly reduce ground casualties but as you say, there is no good evidence for this being in any way successful. I believe the Germans however recognised this and set their priorities accordingly. I have spent a couple of nights trying to get some details on 2-seater numbers but unfortunately the old Profiles, which used to detail such things never covered many of the relevant C-types. Still got plenty of other possible sources though. A thought that has occurred is that the Jastas seemed to use 2-seaters fairly regularly as workhorses. There are reports of MvR in his Alb C.X (I think - and wasn't it red too, from memory) and I remember some other ace was killed in a Hann Cl.IIIa on a domestic run. it seems the RFC seldom (or certainly, infrequently) used 2-seaters for scout pilots - apart from ferrying planes across the Channel. What about trainers, too? - the RFC used purpose-designed 504's and JN-4's (M-F's? - purpose deigned?) whereas I would have to check but seem to remember the GAS used Alb B-types and then a whole series of C-types. This might suggest we should deduct some number of B & C-type production from front-line usage wouldn't you say? One more thought, from a different angle - I have a catalogue for the Public Records Office in London which lists extensive categories of aerial photographs taken by RFC - many thousands of them (you can order copies if you know what you want). Now the PRO obtained huge stocks of German photograps too, covering all sorts of aspects of the aerial campaign - but relatively few aerial rec ones. I know one obvious conclusion... but there may be other reasons too. But your ratios certainly need thinking about - if your source comes up with type-by-type numbers it would help to see what each side was intending at least. One thing's for sure, if the Germans did regularly fly mid-altitude 2-seater missions deep into allied territory, these are the guys that would get my vote for the Blue Maxes! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:06:08 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: reference Message-ID: <199801291737.RAA04819@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Yes, Actually I have studied the losses of both sides and have concluded > that the Camel may well have killed more Englishmen than Germans. Of > course this includes training but after all, dead is dead. > peter One also accounted for von Kissenberth of course - maybe they should have let a whole stack fall into German hands on an overrun airfield - might have been the most effective way of using any combat plane ever, you don't even have to train pilots - you don't even have to recruit them! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:34:48 -0600 (CST) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: reference Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Sandy Adam wrote: > > Where I disagree is with the idea that the Germans were primarily > > intere4sted in shootin planes down. They were primarily interested in > > obtaining good recon information and in driving the Allies from the air > > in very selected areas over very short times. they didn't have the > > resources to do otherwise. ........ > > peter > > Thank you for your thought-provoking reply Peter, but I'm still with > Henderson on this. I agree that the Generals would hardly want to publicly > state anything flattering about the enemy, but Henderson's report was > confidential to the C-in-C and he also heavily criticises shortages and > mistakes and I think less than likely to say anything he didn't believe > absolutley. I think he says exactly what he, his commanders and his pilots > believed. This same exact viewpoint is stated in many other sources. WHERE did henderson get information? Is it any more reliable than US body counts in Viet Nahm?? Officers fabricate all sorts of crap in wartime. Usually to support their positions. peter > > But I can see that a large proportion of 2-seaters perhaps suggests closer > scrutiny of the role of these aircraft. It's certainly got my interest. > Problem we (I, anyway) have in verifying that is in the lack of autobiogs > of the German 2-seater crews. I read one way back but its a bit grey now > and the name escapes me. Certainly McCudden details quite a number of the > high-flying rec intruders, but I can find no way of quantifying how many > missions this actually means. > > My belief is that the Germans tended to carry out mid-level reconnaisance > near the lines and would (quite rightly) scoot back over if challenged. > This was less essential though, since they generally occupied higher > terrain and could observe from high points and balloons fairly successfully > anyway. They sensibly allocated lone high-altitude solo recs for deeper > penetration and these were fairly invulnerable apart from to the occasional > perfectionist like McCudden. > The British on the other hand couldn't see what the enemy were doing and > the BE and RE crews were sent near, far and deep into enemy territory where > they took a fearful mauling for no good reason at all. Trenchard thought > that sacrificing his pilots would directly reduce ground casualties but as > you say, there is no good evidence for this being in any way successful. I > believe the Germans however recognised this and set their priorities > accordingly. > > I have spent a couple of nights trying to get some details on 2-seater > numbers but unfortunately the old Profiles, which used to detail such > things never covered many of the relevant C-types. Still got plenty of > other possible sources though. > > A thought that has occurred is that the Jastas seemed to use 2-seaters > fairly regularly as workhorses. There are reports of MvR in his Alb C.X (I > think - and wasn't it red too, from memory) and I remember some other ace > was killed in a Hann Cl.IIIa on a domestic run. it seems the RFC seldom (or > certainly, infrequently) used 2-seaters for scout pilots - apart from > ferrying planes across the Channel. > > What about trainers, too? - the RFC used purpose-designed 504's and JN-4's > (M-F's? - purpose deigned?) whereas I would have to check but seem to > remember the GAS used Alb B-types and then a whole series of C-types. This > might suggest we should deduct some number of B & C-type production from > front-line usage wouldn't you say? > > One more thought, from a different angle - I have a catalogue for the > Public Records Office in London which lists extensive categories of aerial > photographs taken by RFC - many thousands of them (you can order copies if > you know what you want). Now the PRO obtained huge stocks of German > photograps too, covering all sorts of aspects of the aerial campaign - but > relatively few aerial rec ones. I know one obvious conclusion... but there > may be other reasons too. > > But your ratios certainly need thinking about - if your source comes up > with type-by-type numbers it would help to see what each side was intending > at least. One thing's for sure, if the Germans did regularly fly > mid-altitude 2-seater missions deep into allied territory, these are the > guys that would get my vote for the Blue Maxes! > Sandy > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:42:41 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: helping IRA Message-ID: >Kevin, > >What Snipe did you get? > >Bob > Bob, I got it in trade from list-member Patrick Gilmour - it's a 1/72 Czech Resin. I also have the 1/72 vac from Warbirds and the Pegasus limited run. Haven't started any of them (of course), but I'll use the resin as practice for the Skybirds Halberstadt since I haven't worked on a resin kit yet. By the way, I have the Formaplane Rumpler you're working on now - how about a kit/building review? It would be much appreciated. Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:12:57 EST From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: OTF in Phoenix Message-ID: <31330958.34d0e2cb@aol.com> I haven't gotten a button yet, and I forgot who offered them. Are they still being offered? Hope so. Russ Niles wears his to the meetings and flaunts it in my face. You guys should really see Russ flaunt. :^} -Rick- << Greetings all, And don't forget the OTF seminar in Phoenix on May 1-2. I still hope to be able to afford the trip so wear your buttons guys. regards, Bob Pearson >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:13:06 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS Message-ID: GENTS: I was stirring up some paint last evening, when it occured to me that in all of the discussions about PC-10 which I've seen on the list, I don't recall any mention of the Aerocam paint products. I have their PC-10, PC-10A, PC-12, NIVO, and RFC Linen colors, and I'm quite happy with them. I'm no expert on the subject of RFC/RAF colors, but they look fine to me. What I DO know is, I've had very good luck airbrushing these colors, which go on easy and, after suitable drying time, have excellent adhesion. I'm interested in any comments from you as to your opinion of these enamels, etc. Anybody? Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:03:04 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: OTF in Phoenix Message-ID: <253cbda6.34d0ee8a@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-29 15:19:31 EST, you write: << I haven't gotten a button yet, >> Got mine today! A most chic fashion accessory! Thanks John- a job well done! Robert (wearing his new button) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:23:22 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: PC-10, ETC: AEROCAM PAINTS Message-ID: <199801292125.PAA04163@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Patrick, I've never heard of Aerocam before. How are they compared to other products, like Model Master? Also, do you buy them locally, or do you have a mail order source? Always ready to try new finishes--I just purchased some Aero Master paints to try for the first time. Thanks. Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:08:37 GMT From: Franco Poloni To: wwi Subject: Re: Macchi M 5 and " Nieuport Tape " Query Message-ID: <199801270908.JAA32640@lo.itline.it> Hi David >I say, would any of you chaps have a decent pic or a detail GA of the >engine mountings and associated strutting for the Macchi M-5 flying >boat/ fighter - I have the Windsock Italian types special issue c. 1990 >( thanks again Shane W ) but the photos are not that clear in the >article and from what's visible/ apparant the arrangement is reeally >quite complex with articulated brackets off the engine mounts >themselves, and some kind of a plate adjacent to the rear of the cockpit >which is the front mounting point off the fuselage etc... Also, the >section of the various metal (?) tubes used in this supporting structure >seems to be a variety of semi-ovals and round - Any thoughts or >contributions gratefully recieved !! I've got a copy of original factory drawing about the m5, plus few photo from various mags, I will check this weekend and see if migth be helpfull. Franco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:31:40 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Bomb source Message-ID: <199801292138.WAA02393@d1o211.telia.com> There's no way you could convert it to JPG? If you open the BMP in a programme like PaintShopPro (which is the shareware of my choice) you could save it as a JPG-file and transmit that. If that doesn't work, by all means send it as a BMP-file. Tom. phillip wrote: >Would that mean common bomb types, such as the Cooper, RAF 112 lb., >US 100 lb., French (??kg), German Carbonit and PuW bombs? Yes. Tom ---------- > From: Paul Schwartzkopf > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Bomb source > Date: 29. januar 1998 14:41 > > > Could anybody supply me with a good set of drawings for some fo the > > more useful bombs. I'd like to try casting some myself, for common use > > if there's any interest. Tom > > I have a copy of an old Wylam drawing showing bombs. I do not > know if they are accurate (comments from those who are more > educated on the subject?), but could try to send you a copy if you > want. I have a scanned .BMP, but it is fairly large--I could try to > e-mail it to you tomorrow..... > > > Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 869 *********************