WWI Digest 861 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: 1/72 FE-8 by DavidL1217 2) Caproni Ca.3 by Eric Hotz 3) Re: Caproni Ca.3 by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 4) Re: Dh-1A by "Don RInker" 5) Re: Fokker Ersatz Wheels by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 6) Re: Methuen, Fe-8, SPAD XIII (Italian) by "Tom Werner Hansen" 7) Re: Dh-1A by "Sandy Adam" 8) Re: Active & Passive Undersides by "Sandy Adam" 9) Re: Active & Passive Undersides by "Sandy Adam" 10) Another Franks Book by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 11) More SPAD info requested by "Patrick Gilmore" 12) Re: Early Nieuport help by KarrArt 13) Re: More SPAD info requested by KarrArt 14) Revell Sopwith Tripe notes by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 15) Re: More SPAD info requested by Charles Hart 16) not forgetful! by KarrArt 17) Article by Dave Watts 18) Re: Dh-1A by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 19) Re: Early Nieuport help by mbittner@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:05:35 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/72 FE-8 Message-ID: <67fb09ba.34c984b1@aol.com> The Scale planes kits were produced. Check, perhaps with Ray Rimell regarding UK sources. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:06:00 -0700 From: Eric Hotz To: wwi Subject: Caproni Ca.3 Message-ID: I was just read that three squadrons of Caproni Ca.3's fought in France. Would anyone know if these were French or Italian crewed aircraft, and if these aircraft operated with Italian markings or French (or a mix?). The over all commander was a Captian DeRiso - is he French or Italian? Eric Hotz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:44:27 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Caproni Ca.3 Message-ID: <199801240644.AA05848@ednet1.orednet.org> Eric Hotz writes: > >I was just read that three squadrons of Caproni Ca.3's fought in France. >Would anyone know if these were French or Italian crewed aircraft, and if >these aircraft operated with Italian markings or French (or a mix?). The >over all commander was a Captian DeRiso - is he French or Italian? Actually, both, I think. The French had at least two units (CAP 115 and CAP 130) equipped with a combination of Italian-built and French license-built Caproni bombers. These two units were formed into GB 2 which I think stands for "Groupe de Bombardement" or some such. GB 2 was, so far as I'm aware, all crewed by French personnel and all its aircraft carried French insignia. In early 1918, the Italians sent the 18th Gruppo consisting of squadriglia 5a, 14a, and 15a to the western front to operate with the French Capronis. The 18th Gruppo and GB 2 were formed into a unit known as "Groupement Villome`" after its French commander. Again, so far as I know, the Italian 18th Gruppo was all crewed by Italian personal and carried Italian insignia. I've no reference on Captian ("capitaine"? "capitano"?) DeRiso although the name does sound more Italian than French. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:48:06 -0500 From: "Don RInker" To: Subject: Re: Dh-1A Message-ID: <01bd28df$764b3420$90745fcc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Gillian & Ray Boorman > The modeler was a very good builder and the Triplane was the end product >of two years work. Since there were bound to be problems on first flight >he got the club expert to fly it and get it basically trimmed out. (This is >where you do a quick go around to get the basic trim set up). Anyway after >doing engine check's, radio checks, running the DRi up and down the grass >strip, checking the servo's were not reversed, and all the other things you >do before any first flight, they were set. Everyone was watching, and I >must say it was an impressive sight. Bright red Triplane sitting at the end >of the strip engine ticking over. Looked just like the real thing even down >to a Model Manfred in the cockpit complete with flying scarf. Off it rolled >down the strip, took off and flew just fine they did a couple of go rounds >getting the trim set up on the radio. At this point its usually wise to come >back in since its not uncommon to have something come loose. The club >expert decide things were going fine so he did some mild stunts. Which on a >biplane or in this case Tripane look spectacular, they are so maneuverable. >He finished by flying inverted up the landing strip at around 20 feet or so. >Unfortunately he really did finish, one of the struts either collapsed or >came away taking the top wing on one side with it. Net result was the plane >hit the ground at full speed engine first. Two years work and an awful lot >of money down the drain in a three minute flight. > >So I think I'll stick to my shelf sitters. I've only got six year old kids >and cats to worry about there! Great horror story!! That oughta keep everybody sufficiently scared... ;-) If the "expert" was any kind of a gentleman, he would have replaced the plane or made it up in cash. That sort of "test" flight was totally irresponsible. Ive never seen or heard anything like that in twenty years of R/C. Our club policy has always been, cause a crash, pay the victim.. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:14:40 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker Ersatz Wheels Message-ID: <34CA2180.4CA8@ricochet.net> Patrick Padovan wrote: > > Dear Matt: I believe there was a previous discussion of these wheels on > the list, in which somebody said that they were wooden wheels, like those > used on planes in factories when they were being constructed. I guess the > idea was to save on precious rubber until the plane was finished. Anyway, > I'm quoting from memory here, not declaring this as a fact! I haven't seen > the wheels myself. I remember reading/seeing somewhere that these wheels were sometimes used on planes in training units, with the same idea of conserving precious rubber for operational units. Cheers, Toby (A new one!) -- --------------------------------------- This e-mail has been brought to you by - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:52:45 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Methuen, Fe-8, SPAD XIII (Italian) Message-ID: <199801240916.KAA28256@d1o211.telia.com> At least the boxed collection ESCI called The Red Baron's Circus included Baracca's SPAD XIII. Has anybody built this one? Anything wrong with it apart from the corrugated wings? Not quite as bad as the Airfix offering, but still. Tom ---------- > From: James Gibbons > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Methuen, Fe-8, SPAD XIII (Italian) > Date: 23. januar 1998 14:13 > > My thanks to everyone who helped me by answering these ywo questions. Oh > well the good news is there is an available cross-reference, the bad news > sounds like I won't be using it for the colors on an FE-8 anytime soon. > > Also as a side not to Shane.... I believe the final boxed version of > ESCI's 1/72 Spad XIII came with Italian markings didn't it? > > Thanks again, > > James Gibbons > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:05:15 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Dh-1A Message-ID: <199801241139.LAA23652@beryl.sol.co.uk> My brother is an R/C fanatic and his current project is a colossal Swordfish. He lives near the mouth of the River Tay and flies seaplanes off the water on calm days. I was with him one day with a beautiful 6-foot span Walrus which he let get out of range and we both watched the damned thing disappear to a speck out towards the North Sea. I suppose thats carrying realism to the ultimate but.... Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:58:30 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Active & Passive Undersides Message-ID: <199801241139.LAA23649@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Dear Sandy: Welcome back! How was the castle? > Regards, Patrick Great Patrick. Thanks for asking. 16th-century oak-panelled dining room with walk-in fireplace which we had to ourselves - and hit the bull's-eye because we had Microsoft Europe do a presentation to us Thursday afternoon, who liked the place so much that they are going to do their Spring roll-out there. The owners couldn't do enough after that and gave a bottle of Pouilly-Fuisse each at dinner that night! Friday morning was a blur! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:34:47 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Active & Passive Undersides Message-ID: <199801241139.LAA23655@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Incidentally, what may be "airworthy" on a stable BE-2C in which a "fast > dive" wouldn't scare my granny, would never go up on a more agile > aircraft lest it come down in bits. > Shane Douglas sets his book in chronological order but breaks off in every chapter to discuss various extended topics. Whilst discussing his famous battle with Immelman and Boelcke, for example, he moves back to their first flights and continues forward to the post war myths engendered by their German biographers. It is not safe therefore to infer that the comments about slack fabric only refer to BE2s (which my caption probably implied). He of course moved on to SE5s after this. The use of the words "quite often" clinches it for me. He implies it was a relatively regular occurence. I have always thought that the extreme range of temperatures and humidity in France must have a noticable effect on doped fabric in tented hangars and Douglas's comments confirm this for me. Having been given the epithet "Conan the Barbarian" for my views on that creep Richthofen, I am endeavouring not to be controversial for at least one day and Shane's view is well thought through. But I quoted Douglas to show that there is an opposing view which has first-hand documented support. Believe whichever you will. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:33:52 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Another Franks Book Message-ID: To the List, Boy, Mr. Franks et al can sure churn out material. His latest book arrived at my local store this week, and if you haven't seen it, it's called Under the Guns of the German Aces (or something like that). It follows the same format as his excellent Under the Guns of the Red Baron. He covers the combat reports of four aces, Immelmann, Goering, Voss and Lothar von Richtofen, along with their victims' bios (no doubt a lot of "He was 19 when he was shot down."). I didn't notice whether the book had colour plates similar to those found in the Red Baron book - I didn't see any in my flip through (which doesn't mean they weren't there). In any event, it's nice to see books like this come out - and Franks is a prolific author. Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:40:41 -0500 From: "Patrick Gilmore" To: Subject: More SPAD info requested Message-ID: <199801241845.NAA19008@sulaco.novagate.net> I am working on a SPAD XIII in USAS colors and was wondering what the correct color of blue is for the roundels? Every decal sheet I have has a very different shade of blue ranging from french "lightish" blue, a mid bright blue to a very dark navy blue. This last is on the Aeromaster 1/48th SPAD collection which I am using the 22nd Aero markings for this project. I know there was much variation in the colors during the Nieuport28 period, but I thought by the time the SPAD was in wide-scale US squadron use that there was a more-or-less official set of colors for the national markings. Someone recently mentioned an article on the 22nd Aero in C&C magazine but I lost the e-mail. Could someone let me know what issue that was and also if there is any source for getting my hands on a copy of this? Also, a back issue of Over the Front magazine I have has an excellent article on the 94th squadron N28s in Toul. In this article it mentions that there would be a second part in a future issue that would deal with the 94ths SPADs. Does anyone know if this article was ever done? Thanks, Patrick Gilmore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:38:07 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Early Nieuport help Message-ID: <6a5553ac.34ca5f41@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-22 10:07:49 EST, you write: << I'm trying to figure out the early green/olive camo scheme on early Nieuports for the Chateau Johnson Nie.11/16 I'm finishing up. I can't find where the color demarcations are for the wings and horizontal tail. Can anybody provide help? Bob P.? TIA! Matt Bittner >> If it's not too late, I've found a couple of shots that show early Nieuport 2-color camouflage. You might already have them-Nieuport 11 #1135 in German hands from C&C US V10 #3.This same picture was in a later Winsock but the C&C print has much better contrast and it's easier to see the demarcations.This plane has some kind of torch-like insignia on the side The other shot is from Winsock V9 #6 and shows a N.12. Both pics are from the rear and reveal somewhat of the pattern on the top of the wings. Let me know Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:38:06 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: More SPAD info requested Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-24 13:45:30 EST, you write: << I am working on a SPAD XIII in USAS colors and was wondering what the correct color of blue is for the roundels? Every decal sheet I have has a very different shade of blue ranging from french "lightish" blue, a mid bright blue to a very dark navy blue. This last is on the Aeromaster 1/48th SPAD collection which I am using the 22nd Aero markings for this project. I know there was much variation in the colors during the Nieuport28 period, but I thought by the time the SPAD was in wide-scale US squadron use that there was a more-or-less official set of colors for the national markings. Someone recently mentioned an article on the 22nd Aero in C&C magazine but I lost the e-mail. Could someone let me know what issue that was and also if there is any source for getting my hands on a copy of this? Thanks, Patrick Gilmore>> I've got some stuff- give me a day or two and see what's what.I'll check out the US blue and I've got the C&C with the 22nd Aero markings! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:22:38 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Revell Sopwith Tripe notes Message-ID: <34CA3F7E.B9D@ricochet.net> In case anyone's interested, I'm finally nearing completion on this one. There are a few things one needs to be aware of, so here goes: Fabric texturing. Yuck. Either spend many hours sanding away & reapplying wing rib detail or apply several thick coats of primer or Mister Surfacer to at least partially obscure it. Cockpit opening needs to be reshaped and Vickers needs repositioning further aft, as well as feed & ejection chutes. Add cockpit detail. My kit was apparently a 1980 molding, and so the cowling/upper deck was a bit sunken and the slot for the Vickers as well as misplaced was oversized. Fill in slot, add putty to taste, recontour, sand smooth, etc. Add new slot at leading edge of cockpit. Discard anemic prop & engine if needed for Aeroclub upgrades (these two things greatly enhance appearance of a $4.00 kit, and Aeroclub Clerget may be easily weathered unpainted with a wash of dk brown to simulate burnt castor oil). Tailskid/rudder post will need to be replaced/added. Note that tailskid is steerable, and so has its own 'crank and cables under fuselage. Check lengths of all struts against plans, they may be a bit long. Wings may have to be cut at roots to add correct dihedral. Note clear inspection 'windows' on lower plane need to be added. My want to assemble wings starting with center section struts, add interplane struts & middle wings assembled as a unit (but not dry, as there may be adjusting) finally adding top wing when everything else is aligned. Using cyano for this may be a bit tricky, but then you're almost certainly a more skilled or meticulous modeler than I, having made a jig for wing assembly beforehand. Drill all rigging holes before assembly but after painting, as they can get clogged and will need cleaning. Refer to rigging diagram in datafile for mysteries of Tripe rigging. My decal is out of register, and since Tripe wings are peculiar narrow chord, good luck finding replacements. Aifix RE-8 fuselage cockades seem to match size for Tripes fus. roundels...try Blue Rider back issues or Americal. P.S. Testor's Rust + Testor's Rubber = fair match for PC10. PC10 actually "iron oxide with a touch of lamp black." Cheers, Toby -- --------------------------------------- This e-mail has been brought to you by - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:06:09 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: More SPAD info requested Message-ID: >I am working on a SPAD XIII in USAS colors and was wondering what the >correct color of blue is for the roundels? Every decal sheet I have has a >very different shade of blue ranging from french "lightish" blue, a mid >bright blue to a very dark navy blue. This last is on the Aeromaster 1/48th >SPAD collection which I am using the 22nd Aero markings for this project. I >know there was much variation in the colors during the Nieuport28 period, >but I thought by the time the SPAD was in wide-scale US squadron use that >there was a more-or-less official set of colors for the national markings. > >Someone recently mentioned an article on the 22nd Aero in C&C magazine but >I lost the e-mail. Could someone let me know what issue that was and also >if there is any source for getting my hands on a copy of this? > >Also, a back issue of Over the Front magazine I have has an excellent >article on the 94th squadron N28s in Toul. In this article it mentions that >there would be a second part in a future issue that would deal with the >94ths SPADs. Does anyone know if this article was ever done? > >Thanks, >Patrick Gilmore I would tend to favor the French "light" blue on the SPAD American cockades. The machines were built and used in France, so this is logical. If someone were nice enough to publish color views of the original fabric removed from the NASM SPAD XIII (b&w photos of same appear in issue #107 of WW I Aero) this would settle the question. However if you look at the DH-4B on display at NASM, its cockades are the darker blue, close to that used by the British. Post 1918 the blue used in insignia tended to be pretty dark. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:23:47 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: not forgetful! Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-17 23:56:40 EST, you write: << I know you're busy with a 0/400 but hows about writing me up a more detailed "how-to" on your Linberg OX-5 in exchange for that burnished cowl method? At your liesure, of course. Ernest. >> Howdy- a quickie to let you know I haven't forgot! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:46:33 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Article Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980124204633.007db5b0@192.168.0.5> >From: JUNGCLAUS >Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:05:36 EST >To: davew@wattstrainshop.com >Subject: Article >Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) >X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) > >The Final Trip to Guntersville =20 > > If you=92ve ever been to a meeting where the cherished possessions of a >friend or family member who had passed away are being sold or divided up you=92d >know how Dave Watts and I felt on Tuesday, January 20th. > It was certainly with mixed emotions that we headed back toward Indianapolis >after leaving the closed Ryder Replica Fighter Museum at Guntersville, >Alabama. This was the 7th, and probably the last, trip each us had made to >that area, including the Ryder=92s funeral. It had now been 3 years since >either of us had been there and seeing it again was very sad and nostalgic for >the good times that the place had generated. > Except for the lack of the full scale Fokker Eindecker weather vane atop >the main building (which had blown down and been wrecked), fewer exterior >signs and the lack of visitors, the outside was essentially unchanged. > Dave and I went there on an appointment to meet with Katie, Carolyn Ryder=92s >sister, who had been placed in charge of selling the assets of the museum. We >were to find in short order that any rumors of bargains were just that - >rumors.=20 > Upon entering the back door of the locked museum with Kenny, the last member >of the museum=92s staff and the temporary caretaker, we saw that everything >looked surprisingly intact. While most of the rotary engines which had been on >display were noticeable absent, most of the aircraft were still there. Only >one model kit, a Proctor/VK Fokker Dr I, and one or two solid display models >remained in the formerly full display cases but shirts and hats were still >available in abundance. Finished models still hung from the ceiling and as if >a reminder from better days, the original artifacts in the cases remained >largely untouched. > Kenny gave us a tour of the other hangars and we noted that except looking >somewhat dusty and showing some cobwebs everything looked as it had three >years ago. Some of the planes had been sold, such as the SPAD XIII and one of >the Nieuport 28s but nothing seemed to be missing. The engine and project >storage area had many engines removed from what we remembered but there were >still at least 30 still in evidence along with several aircraft projects, >including a full scale DVII, several Fokker Triplanes. We also saw 4 or 5 >other projects in other outside hangars. > Dave had gone to Guntersville to attempt to buy back items he had sold to >Frank (based on the assurance that the museum would be a very long term >commitment) such as (2) MG 08/15 Spandaus, his 200 hp Ranger engine and maybe >pick up an original Dietz oil painting. As a licensed Class Three Weapons >Dealer, Dave could have legally just cancelled the transfer (to Frank), given >them their money and regained possession. As has been the case with many other >issues, the lawyers nixed it before it could start. The Ranger engine was >missing several components which Dave had included when he sold it to Frank, >such as the hub, the starter, the generator, carb and motor mount so the price >to buy it back of $8,000 seemed steep, to say the least. A Dietz painting >which was sold to Frank for about $5800 was STARTING at $8,000. It was said >that the price included the cost of the framing. There must be some expensive >framers in Alabama. > I was looking for a Proctor Albatros DVa kit and was interested in a >Warner or Casa Tigre engine. I was also interested in finding my 3d slides >which I had loaned to Scott Ryder for his publication but had not been allowed >to get when I was there three years ago, again by the =93lawyers=94. I was to get >no slides. > The price of the Warners =91started=92 at $12,000 for an engine without logs, a >hub, a starter, a generator or exhaust manifold. For me it might as well have >been 12 million. Casa Tigres were =91starting=92 at $2,000 to $3,000 f= or engines >Frank himself had told me he had paid $800. All the Proctor kits had been >sold. > Virtually the first words out of Katie=92s mouth were that she wasn=92t having >a =91flea market=92. That was obvious. She had original receipts and canceled >checks for virtually everything Frank had bought, stacks of current aviation >publications and appraisals. As a former school teacher, she had done her >homework. Of the Aircraft left the full scale Albatross was =91starting=92 at >$100,000, the Nieuport 24, =91starting=92 $50,000. I didn=92t ask about any others >because whatever it the =91starting=92 price was would have been more than I was >willing to have gone into hock to pay. > Sometime, somewhere, somebody who does have the disposable cash MIGHT spend >that kind of money for some of those things. I MIGHT, if I were to win a >lottery. Most wouldn=92t. Most can=92t. > For those of us in this hobby who met with Frank Ryder, flew with him, >laughed with him - and at him, argued with him, dined with him and shared >dreams with him consider ourselves lucky. He shared his hobby by giving freely >of his time to talk, laugh, spin yarns with anybody interested in the era and >he threw two of the grandest World War I aviation parties the world will ever >see. He was a showman whose ostentatiousness could rankle jealous people who >were less giving.=20 > He wanted his Museum to last a hundred years and said just that to many. He >didn=92t write down and it lasted less than 4. His closest advisors failed him >and his dream. One can only wonder why. Soon the collection will be dissipated >to many storage areas away from view but for a select few and probably never >fly again. All we=92ll be left with is the memories of the vision of a man who >had the imagination, self-made means and drive to do what most of us could >only dream of.=20 > Dave and I are each glad we shared in a piece of that dream. Too bad his >=91museum=92 and dream had turn into a mausoleum - for sale to the highest of >highest bidders. > > > > > > >More On the Replica plans SE5a=20 > >In a nice letter from C.R. =93Gogi=94 Goguillot (one of the replica=92s designers) >complimenting us on the article on the Weight and Balance chart, there was >included more information about the aircraft. The C.G. Range was finally >established at 16=94 aft of the leading edge of the bottom wing.=20 > Gogi also wrote,=94-while on the subject of missing info, control movements >are: Ailerons, up 5=94, down 1=94, Rudder 6 1/2=94 left and right, andf elevator 6 >1/2=94 down and up. All measured at the trailing edge from neutral.=94 He stated >in his letter that both of the governments of Australia and New Zealand have >approved the design for limited aerobatics and he can send a copy to anyone >interested. =20 > As well, he wrote =93SE5as were built with steel tube undercarriage as well >as spruce (spruce is prettier). Should any one require we can send sketches of >this mod on request.=94=20 > Finally, he asked the source of my information that the working strength of >the cable 1/8th=94, 1 x 19 lay stainless steel cable was 20% of the yield. I >must admit that I got it over the phone from the local dealer of the cable >which I have been using on my aircraft for almost 10 years and almost 300 >hours. When I asked him he either looked it up in a specification chart or >asked someone else and they looked it up. I clearly recall a minute or so >delay in his answer. While it was not the first hand kind of information I >would have had by reading it for myself or seeing the source, I have no reason >to disbelieve that he gave it to me as he had read it. > I would like to compliment Goguillot and McGowen on their design. In my >estimation it is one the finest flying aircraft certainly that I have ever >flown. It=92s responsive and nimble without being touchy. It=92s solid, reliable >and comfortable. Only 3 other people, besides myself, have flown my aircraft, >my former father-in-law, a retired corporate pilot with in excess of 18,000 >hours, my son Karl, a former aerobatic instructor at the University of North >Dakota and now an airline pilot with over 5300 hours, and Jim Zazas, a USAir >pilot, aviation writer, Bronze Star Air Force Veteran and one of the pilots of >the EAA B17. After he landed and taxied back to where I was standing Jim said >=93this is the best aircraft I have ever flown=94. I don=92t think he was just >trying to make me feel good. He was smiling too much! > GREAT JOB, guys! > >Lieber Fred Murrin,=20 > Da Sie scheinen zu denken, sind Sie der rote Baron=20 >und das falschste der germanischen dominierenden Haltung angenommen zu=20 >haben, schreibe ich Ihnen dieses Zeichen in Ihre angenommene Zunge.=20 > Anscheinend dachten Sie, da=DF der Artikel, den ich =FCber die Maschinen=20 >Frank's kann das "Hoarder des Southwest" beleidigt haben geschrieben=20 >hatte und der er nicht uns mit seiner Anwesenheit beim Rendezvous segnen=20 >oder geneigt sein konnten nichts haben zu w=FCnschen, mit uns zu tun.Er didn1t >hat sogar die H=F6flichkeit zum Reagieren auf unsere Einladung=20 >letztes Mal.=20 > Diesen Artikel verwenden, dem didn1t sogar seinen Namen=20 >enthalten, da eine Entschuldigung zum Zensieren meines Schreibens eine=20 >Beleidigung auf der rechten Seite der freien Rede ist und den freien=20 >Austausch von Ideen hemmt. Die Idee ist zu was wir unseren Bauteilen vom=20 >Anfang versichert hatten, das dort w=FCrde sein kein Bearbeiten au=DFer=20 >laufendem spellcheck kontr=E4r.=20 > Gl=FCcklicherweiseIST der neue Herausgeber mit mir einverstanden. It1s=20 >verdammte gl=FCckliches, da=DF die Deutschen beide Kriege verloren,=20 >andernfalls w=FCrde ihr Overbearing, bedr=FCckende Haltung, die Sie scheinen=20 >lassen angenommen zu haben, mit der Freiheit des Ausdruckes vorherschen,=20 >der das erste Opfer ist.=20 >Eingelegt,=20 >Fred=20 > >Dear Fred Murrin, > Since you seem to think you are the Red Baron and have adopted the worst >of the Germanic dominant attitudes, I am writing this letter to you in your >adopted tongue.=20 > Apparently you thought the article which I had written about the Frank=92s >engines may have insulted the =93Hoarder of the Southwest=94 and that he might not >bless us with his presence at the Rendezvous or be inclined to want to have >anything to do with us. I=92ll give you a clue, he doesn=92t want to deal with us >anyway. He didn=92t even have the courtesy to respond to our invitation last >time.=20 > Using that article, which didn=92t even contain his name, as an excuse to >censor my writing is an affront to the right of free speech and inhibits the >free exchange of ideas. The very idea is contrary to what we had assured our >members from the beginning, that there would be no editing save running >spellcheck.=20 > Fortunately, the new editor agrees with me. It=92s damned lucky that the >Germans lost both wars, otherwise their overbearing, oppressive attitudes, >which you have seem to have adopted would prevail with the freedom of >expression being the first victim. >Regrettfully submitted, >Fred > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:57:20 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Dh-1A Message-ID: <000a01bd2934$a33d8c80$0718c2cf@rayboorm> The one peice I left out was that the builder was standing right next to the guy flying the model, he was quite the willing partner. However you are right, I always worked on the policy of you break it you at least pay for replacement of part or model. Ray Boorman -----Original Message----- From: Don RInker To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Dh-1A > >-----Original Message----- > >Great horror story!! That oughta keep everybody sufficiently scared... ;-) > >If the "expert" was any kind of a gentleman, he would have replaced the >plane >or made it up in cash. That sort of "test" flight was totally irresponsible. >Ive never >seen or heard anything like that in twenty years of R/C. > >Our club policy has always been, cause a crash, pay the victim.. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:54:39 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Early Nieuport help Message-ID: <19980124.205440.13126.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:15:58 -0500 KarrArt writes: > If it's not too late, I've found a couple of shots that show > early Nieuport 2-color camouflage. You might already have > them-Nieuport 11 #1135 in German hands from C&C US V10 #3.This > same picture was in a later Winsock but the C&C print has much > better contrast and it's easier to see the demarcations.This > plane has some kind of torch-like insignia on the side The other > shot is from Winsock V9 #6 and shows a N.12. Both pics are from > the rear and reveal somewhat of the pattern on the top of the > wings. There's also a great picture of Bert Hall's Nie.11 in C&C US Vol 2 No 1 with wonderful demarcation lines. That's what I used. Thanks for the heads up, though! Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 861 *********************