WWI Digest 856 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Aerodrome Auction by "Denest, Michael J" 2) Re: Methuen Color Reference by TPT PUMPER 3) Re: Aerodrome Auction by Ernest Thomas 4) Re: Methuen Color Reference by Charles Hart 5) RE: Methuen Color Reference by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 6) Re: Hat in the Ring decals by Don RInker 7) Re: Aerodrome Auction by "Eli Geher" 8) Re: Active & Passive Undersides by Matthew Zivich 9) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by fedders 10) Parachutes - was purple Albatross by "Sandy Adam" 11) Re: Active & Passive Undersides by KarrArt 12) MvR and pathology by KarrArt 13) Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross by Don RInker 14) More pathology by KarrArt 15) RE: Parachutes - was purple Albatross by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 16) Re: Methuen Color Reference by KarrArt 17) Re: Fokker E.III rudder by Jim Wallace 18) Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross by KarrArt 19) 1/72 FE-8 by James Gibbons 20) Sikorsky S.16 by "Bittner, Matthew (KTR) ~U" 21) SUBSCRIBE by kubli.khan@virgin.net 22) Re:Color decals NEW info by Don RInker 23) IPMS Color Cross-Reference Guide by Brian Nicklas 24) Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross by "Sandy Adam" 25) Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross by Don RInker 26) Re: Parachutes and pathology- was purple Albatross by KarrArt 27) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross (really) by Charles Hart 28) Re: Active & Passive Undersides by Joey Valenciano ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:18:39 -0500 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'WW1 Mailing list'" Subject: Aerodrome Auction Message-ID: <21A9C368581DD011986600805FEABAD4019BD547@xch-phl-01.he.boeing.com> Is there any information regarding an auction to be held at the late Frank Ryder's Aerodrome? I want to get a list of items available is this true. TIA Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:34:35 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: Methuen Color Reference Message-ID: <304374a6.34c4b5fd@aol.com> Hi Guys! I don't recall a Methuen-FS cross reference, but didn't IPMS or someone do a book on FS numbers where they called out the number and gave aplications for it. I realize many numbers have off-topic applications, but there could be something useful in there. And it was still cheaper than buying the rare Methuen Handbook of Colour. HTH> Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:09:31 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Aerodrome Auction Message-ID: <34C4BE2B.4AA4@bellsouth.net> Denest, Michael J wrote: > > Is there any information regarding an auction to be held at the late > Frank Ryder's Aerodrome? I want to get a list of items available is > this true. TIA > Mike > I've been wondering that myself. Anybody? Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:07:35 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Methuen Color Reference Message-ID: >Howdy all, > >Does anyone know if there is a cross reference available for converting >Methuen color references to US Federal Standard color references. Barry at >Rosemont informed me that Methuen color decks are hard to find and fairly >expensive when I asked him if he could get one for me. On the other hand >he indicated that the FS standard book was readily available from the US >government for under $25. > >If anyone on list has done any work in this area (or knows where such a >listing can be found) I would love to hear about it. > >James Gibbons What needs to be understood is that Methuen numbers are a notation describing variations in shade of colors. It isn't perfect. I am fortunate enough to have a Methuen book (they are very hard to find) and frequently it is difficult to make an exact match between a color sample and one of the squares in the book. Basically the book consists of many pages with various shades of a particular color, i.e. various browns, yellows, reds etc. One then compares a color with the various squares on the page to arrive at a Methuen value. For what James is suggesting the easiest thing to do is to assign Methuen values to the various shades of color found in the FS book. From what I understand, the FS book is a series of color swatches of "standard" colors from which one selects colors deemed appropriate for the painting of government file cabinets, pick up trucks and fighter aircraft. Its a system for manufacturer's to match when they fulfill their government contracts and not one suitable for attempting to describe subtle variations in colors painted over 80 years ago. My US$0.02 worth. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:29:09 -0600 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Methuen Color Reference Message-ID: <01BD258E.3EF0E3C0.panz-meador@vsti.com> this is correct. the book (FS595) is a series of color "paint chips" arranged by general color (red, orange, yellow, etc.), metallic colors, and miscellaneous colors (e.g. the flourescents, "arctic red", etc.). even if a category number is provided, the space in the book may be blank because there is no need (gov't) for that color, e.g. you may have flat and semi-gloss versions, but you don't have a gloss version of the color. the reference numbers you see are in this format: (n1)(n2)(nnn) where: 1: gloss finish n1 < 2: semigloss 3: "lusterless" finish 1: reds n2 < 2: oranges 3: yellows 4: greens 5: blues 6: grays 7: blacks, whites, metallics 8: flourescents and nnn = 3 digit identifier; no real order here, i.e. a higher number doesn't imply anything about a darker shade, etc. evidently, there are/were 437 colors available when the thing was printed (i got mine in the early 80s). this number is significantly less than that available with either the munsell or methuen color systems. by comparison (as i understand it, never having seen either) the munsell and metheun books are more continuous, that is, they vary almost continuously in shade, chroma, and hue. therefore, trying to assess color matches between the m&m books and the FS book is (to borrow a line from jethro tull, the band, not the inventor of the seed drill...) skate away on the thin ice of the new day. check this NG's archives for "lozenge colors" to see what i mean... BUT, some folks have done it. the IPMS USA site has a FAQ compiled by a swede, which cross correlates (as best you can) FS, methuen, and the paints available from various manufacturers, for a variety of a/c including wwi a/c. hope this helps. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Charles Hart [SMTP:hartc@spot.colorado.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 10:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Methuen Color Reference >Howdy all, > >Does anyone know if there is a cross reference available for converting >Methuen color references to US Federal Standard color references. Barry at >Rosemont informed me that Methuen color decks are hard to find and fairly >expensive when I asked him if he could get one for me. On the other hand >he indicated that the FS standard book was readily available from the US >government for under $25. > >If anyone on list has done any work in this area (or knows where such a >listing can be found) I would love to hear about it. > >James Gibbons What needs to be understood is that Methuen numbers are a notation describing variations in shade of colors. It isn't perfect. I am fortunate enough to have a Methuen book (they are very hard to find) and frequently it is difficult to make an exact match between a color sample and one of the squares in the book. Basically the book consists of many pages with various shades of a particular color, i.e. various browns, yellows, reds etc. One then compares a color with the various squares on the page to arrive at a Methuen value. For what James is suggesting the easiest thing to do is to assign Methuen values to the various shades of color found in the FS book. From what I understand, the FS book is a series of color swatches of "standard" colors from which one selects colors deemed appropriate for the painting of government file cabinets, pick up trucks and fighter aircraft. Its a system for manufacturer's to match when they fulfill their government contracts and not one suitable for attempting to describe subtle variations in colors painted over 80 years ago. My US$0.02 worth. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:29:27 -0500 From: Don RInker To: wwi Subject: Re: Hat in the Ring decals Message-ID: <34C4D0E7.B51@fast.net> Here's Da place ( couldnt find it last night ) Major Decals box 304 East Longmeadow, MA 01028 1-413-525-4110 Thes guys have over 1200 differnet decal sets ( mostly WW1 and WW2) in 1/24/ 1/6 1/5 1/4 and some 1/3 scale. Roundels, Crosses, kill markings, maufactureres stencils, WW1 sqadron marking ( definitely have the Hat in the Ring) they even have propellor manufacturer logos for props... He'll proboably want to go Direct to MAJOR. If in the off cahnce a shop do have some, they'll proably have the WW2 stuff. Also they come in self stick on mylar and water transfer. For a nice model the water transfer ones are the only way to go. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:59:07 -0600 From: "Eli Geher" To: Subject: Re: Aerodrome Auction Message-ID: <199801201702.LAA09771@sh1.ro.com> I posted information several months ago based on local newspaper accounts. Unfortunately, I no longer have the details, including my original notes to this group. Sorry. Eli Geher ---------- > From: Denest, Michael J > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Aerodrome Auction > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 8:23 AM > > Is there any information regarding an auction to be held at the late > Frank Ryder's Aerodrome? I want to get a list of items available is > this true. TIA > Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:11:22 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Active & Passive Undersides Message-ID: Ernest, Thanks for the reply. I was wondering if my observations were commonplace among the more expert builders who specialize in varied depictions. Matt Z On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Ernest Thomas wrote: > Matthew Zivich wrote: > > > > Recently while viewing some photographs that I had taken of WWI > > aircraft at the Smithson. Air/Space Mus. (Snipe, Voisin, Alb DVa, etc.) & > > some my son had taken at the Imp. War Mus., London (Camel, BE.), I > > noticed the undersides of the wings (all were above eye level) were not > > noticeably defined with the "starved cow" look of protruding ribs beneath > > canvas. The surfaces were uniformly even on all craft with only the > > slightest definition of rib tape. Indeed on the Alb. DVa there was the > > slightest hint of convexity of canvas between the supportive tapes. > > After noting this I glanced at my own varied collection of > > 1/48th, aeroplanes also above eye level and noted the variety of > > definitions of wing undersides. Those that had the starved cow > > definition appeared overstated (Aurora Alb.C-III for example) while those > > that may have been criticized for lack of definition (other early > > Auroras) appeared closer to my photographs in unders. appearance. > > Could it be then, that plance in flight with wind resistance > > would have one kind of definition whereas planes meant for, say, dioramas > > or not in flight would have another kind of definition? > > > > Matt Z. > > Matt, > > That's a real good observation. I noticed that at Aerodrome and it > didn't even register in my mind until you said it just now and then it > clicked. I think the starved cow look is a good example of someone > making a model the way they think it should look instead of the was does > look. I know I can't be the only person who's done this. But we try to > get better, yes? > > I would think think that if anything, the underside wing fabric would be > stretched tighter on an A/C in flight, thus, less pronounced ribs. This > would be caused be the overall stress on the wing, span-wise, > over-riding the stresses on the fabric between the ribs. > > Of course, the shape of the airfoil would also play a part and that > would explain variation between different a/c. Ex; Flat bottomed wings > would have no dip between the ribs, symetrical airfoils would have the > starved cow look. While the earlier type airfoils with the lower camber > running more parrallel with the upper camber might appear to sag due to > stresses in the fabric running more from leading edge to trailing edge. > Something like the wings on the DML DrI. But this example seems > overstated to me. I'll check my pictures from Aerodrome when I get them > back from Trent Tidmore. But even these a/c were modern replicas and I > don't know for certain that those airfoils are accurate reproductions. > Any word from the experts? > > Ernest > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:11:51 -0600 (CST) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Sandy Adam wrote: > > > > Okay, I'll bite if no one else will. Why this almost pathologic > > hatred of MvR? > > Three reasons - First I have a typical British empathy for the underdog - > MvR always, always, always had the cards heavily loaded in his favour. I think that further reading will tell you that Americans and British were the pilots most likely to shoot at downed pilots and shoot up enemy pilots in parachutess! Presumably this does not make them killers because they were killing Germans! This British empathy for underdogs is just propaganda. In practice they followed the maxim of "kill them any way you can and lie about how many you shot down" pfed [A> > Second - irrespective of what you say the man was a pathological killer - > almost all the other aces you mention expressed distate for what they did > and sought to escape killing when they went on leave. On leave MvR merely > switched his killing from men to animals. Bickers (not the most objective > author - but then neither is Kilduff) even likens his cups and trophy > hunting to that of savages exhibiting their enemy's heads. > > Third - the grossly over-spotlit attention given to this miserable wretch, > insults the lives and deaths of many, many admirable young men - on both > sides - who are much more worthy of our attention, but remain in his public > shadow. I will always respect Voss for the job of work he did (much as I > dislike the fact that he was killing my grandfathers' contemporaries), but > MvR took too long in finally (inadvertantly) crossing the lines and facing > the same risks that his BE2 opponents faced every one of their brief days. > > That the legend of the Red Baron brings newcomers to our area of interest > is greatly welcomed. That they quickly appreciate that he was but one > over-publicised, candidate for their attention is greatly to be hoped for. > > I totally agree with your comments about the High Command on both sides, > especially the British, but thats a different story. > > Maybe we should take this off-list if you want to continue. > Sandy > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:38:34 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Parachutes - was purple Albatross Message-ID: <199801201742.RAA05691@beryl.sol.co.uk> > I think that further reading will tell you that Americans and British > were the pilots most likely to shoot at downed pilots and shoot up > enemy pilots in parachutess! Well I think further reading (any reading?) will tell you that it would have been pretty difficult for German pilots to shoot at British pilots on parachutes. They might have found a balloon observer with a parachute - but since they could only ever find balloons on the allies' side of the lines that was a relatively rare occurrence. Since most of the air fighting took place behind the German Lines an allied pilot knew that an enemy fighter pilot safely exiting his aircraft here by any means would be back up in the air the next day killing BEs and REs again. On the other hand the gallant German knew that, in the unlikely event of the allied pilot getting out of his plane alive, he would be bound for pow camp. This British empathy for underdogs is just propaganda. You seem to have forgotten about Belgium in 1914, or Poland in 1939, or the Falklands, or... In practice they followed the maxim of "kill them any > way you can and lie about how many you shot down" > pfed Don't you just love it when somebody's objectivety flies out the window and their arguments descend to the playground. Thataboy pfed - don't let facts get in your way! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:48:44 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Active & Passive Undersides Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-20 03:17:39 EST, you write: << The surfaces were uniformly even on all craft with only the > slightest definition of rib tape. >> I'm not sure how to put this, but what we're seeing isn't the rib, it's where the rib is- not exactly what I'm trying to say.Especially on British wings with the frayed tapes we see all the crud that collects and hi-lights the tapes.Fraying seems to gather more dirt and stains than pinking.Look at any of the photos of up-ended Brit machines and see where the ribs are by the textural change around the tape.The starved cow look is an illusion unless the airplane has some dreadful disease. One thing I do see is the fuselage wrinkling which I sometimes will try to duplicate.A smooth sided SE 5a just doesn't look right! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:48:45 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: MvR and pathology Message-ID: <6f046a01.34c4e37f@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-20 07:22:50 EST, you write: << MvR always, always, always had the cards heavily loaded in his favour. .... the man was a pathological killer - >> One of the reasons I sometimes get bored with MvR is that we know comparitively little about his real personality, and not much more is likely to be discovered.When there's nothing new to say, I turn off. Filtered through time and lurid early writers, it's very hard to "get inside" his head.If some long lost manuscript surfaces in which he reveals himself in a McCudden-like fashion, then I'll sit up and take notice. I would imagine he would be a very polite and engaging dinner companion, and, to use a word long out of favour, an "honorable" man as opposed to someone like Mannock or Fonck, who both seemed to be complete and utter "a*****le"s.If I could meet someone from those days, it would be a toss-up between McCudden and Boelcke.( although I'd like to get Bishop off by himself in a dark corner and ask "ok dude, did you really do that VC-winning raid?) Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:07:26 -0500 From: Don RInker To: wwi Subject: Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross Message-ID: <34C4E7DE.600B@fast.net> Sandy Adam wrote: > Don't you just love it when somebody's objectivety flies out the window and > their arguments descend to the playground. Thataboy pfed - don't let facts > get in your way! > Sandy Wow, why don't you just give him a virtual kick in the head? Why does it seem that a lot of your discussions get more and more caustic with every exchange? Or is it just me? Lets get back to modeling.... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:48:47 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: More pathology Message-ID: <67f23001.34c4e381@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-20 12:14:33 EST, you write: << Americans and British were the pilots most likely to shoot at downed pilots and shoot up enemy pilots in parachutess! >> Maybe 'cause only the Germans had parachutes? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:10:18 -0600 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Parachutes - was purple Albatross Message-ID: <01BD259C.61856560.panz-meador@vsti.com> war IS heck, isn't it? the same arguments found below could be applied to other fliers in other wars--was it despicable for the ussr to send ivan kozhedub to fly for the n. koreans? was he less gallant than his opponents, who had previously riddled (figuratively and literally) the "native"-born n. korean a.f.? the fliers from both sides represented the gamut of human experience--from the gallant to the scumbags (i seem to recall mick mannock saying how much he enjoyed sending the hun down in flames, sizzle sizzle pop). RE, BE, and FE crews were crewed by such and IMHO they wouldn't really dig the label of "victim" while doing their duty. completely off topic... phillip -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Adam [SMTP:cbbs@almac.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 11:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Parachutes - was purple Albatross > I think that further reading will tell you that Americans and British > were the pilots most likely to shoot at downed pilots and shoot up > enemy pilots in parachutess! Well I think further reading (any reading?) will tell you that it would have been pretty difficult for German pilots to shoot at British pilots on parachutes. They might have found a balloon observer with a parachute - but since they could only ever find balloons on the allies' side of the lines that was a relatively rare occurrence. Since most of the air fighting took place behind the German Lines an allied pilot knew that an enemy fighter pilot safely exiting his aircraft here by any means would be back up in the air the next day killing BEs and REs again. On the other hand the gallant German knew that, in the unlikely event of the allied pilot getting out of his plane alive, he would be bound for pow camp. This British empathy for underdogs is just propaganda. You seem to have forgotten about Belgium in 1914, or Poland in 1939, or the Falklands, or... In practice they followed the maxim of "kill them any > way you can and lie about how many you shot down" > pfed Don't you just love it when somebody's objectivety flies out the window and their arguments descend to the playground. Thataboy pfed - don't let facts get in your way! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:48:47 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Methuen Color Reference Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-20 09:50:31 EST, you write: << I don't recall a Methuen-FS cross reference, but didn't IPMS or someone do a book on FS numbers where they called out the number and gave aplications for it. I realize many numbers have off-topic applications, but there could be something useful in there. And it was still cheaper than buying the rare Methuen Handbook of Colour. HTH> Have Fun!! IRA >> Yep, in 1988 IPMS published a 169 page book cross referencing 595a, Methuen,Munsell,,RLM, Modern West German,British etc....... Also keyed into then-current model paint colors.Some WW I stuff was also in this beast.Want Abu Dhabi light tan? Go to page 19 and you'll find 595a 33434. Not 100% reliable, but darn close and heavily sourced. This book was around the shops in the late 80's and early 90's, usually about $20 US, sometimes with the 595a fan deck thrown in. Written by David Klaus and went through at least 4 printings. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:17:48 -0500 From: Jim Wallace To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker E.III rudder Message-ID: <3.0.4.32.19980120131748.00943c50@pop.atl.mindspring.com> >From a WWI Aero article there appears to be a fitting that connects to the end of the fuselage and wraps around the pivot of elevator. The rudder is attached to this, and, as you mentioned, the tailskid. Exactly how it is attached is not clear in the photo. jw ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:25:55 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-20 12:51:52 EST, you write: << In practice they followed the maxim of "kill them any > way you can and lie about how many you shot down" > pfed >> Sounds like (oh my God I'm about to step in it now) the Battle of Britain with it's grossly overstated threat by a grossly overstated Luftwaffe- the only defense being a "few gallant lads." BUT- the British were completely correct in playing this charade the way they did.( took attention away from the real threat- the Atlantic U-boat war) On a somewhat different note- look where this thread started- an inquiry about a possibly purple Albatros! I love it! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:38:01 -0500 From: James Gibbons To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: 1/72 FE-8 Message-ID: <01BD25A8.A14F3CA0.jgibbons@vppsa.com> Does anyone know of a company manufacturing (or planning to manufacture) a 1/72 FE-8 kit? Any medium is acceptable. I seem to rmember reading about one somewhere but for the life of me I can't remember where. James Gibbons ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:43:52 -0000 From: "Bittner, Matthew (KTR) ~U" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Sikorsky S.16 Message-ID: Just came from the Silverbird site. ICM has a 1/72nd injected Sikorsky S.16 listed for a future release. Cool! Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:53:32 -0800 From: kubli.khan@virgin.net To: wwi Subject: SUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <34C5632C.7714@virgin.net> PLEASE SUBSCRIBE ME TO THE WWI MAILING LIST, ANDY STEPHENSON, kubli.khan@virgin.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:55:26 -0500 From: Don RInker To: wwi Subject: Re:Color decals NEW info Message-ID: <34C4F31E.1B4B@fast.net> Check out www.mich.com/~labco/ THey have a nice site that talks about using a Thermal wax or Color Copier to transfer designs to their heat resistant decal paper. You could still do the design on your art soft ware, and either print it out on a bubblejet, or save it to disk and take it to a store like knkos that has software and color copying cabability. Here's a section of the LAbco page..... Here are prices for water slide decal paper that will work in many computer printers, color or standard copy machines, laser printers and thermal wax printers.: QUANTITY PRICES no credit cards please. US postage paid. QTY.(sheets) Price 3 $10.00 U.S. funds 10 $30.00 50 $125.00 100 $200.00 Larger bulk quanties available on request. Foreign orders add 10% to cover increased postage costs. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 14:05:37 EST From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: IPMS Color Cross-Reference Guide Message-ID: <199801201908.OAA01168@pease1.sr.unh.edu> The subject of this note (aka "Guide") was published by Dave Klaus, then a member of IPMS/USA Inland Empire in San Bernadino, California. The was no official IPMS sanction on the work, and quite a few people were rather miffed about that. But at about 168 pages, and a lot of great comparitive work, it's worth having if you are a "serious" modeler. Dave now has retired from the US Air Force and operates "Meteor Productions" full time. He still sells the Guide at Meteor Productions, but I'm not sure if they have the FS 595b anymore, the price really started to climb on those from the Government. Meteor has a web site, but I think it's currently under revision. They usually have an ad in Finescale Modeler, the US phone number is 703-971-0500 PO Box 3956, Merrifield, VA 22116. Dave just called me on an unrelated matter, so the prices are: Guide $21.95 FS 595b fan deck (color chips) = $45.00 Guide & fan deck = $58.95 If you have a 595a, you probably do not need a 595b, the difference does not justify the cost. And Dave points out that the WWI coverage is not that extensive, so if you solely build WWI, you probably won't be happy with the book. WWII and modern modelers will want one. And Dave requested that no one call and ask "Can you just read me what notations you have for color x?" He can't do it. Hope this helps. Brian Nicklas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:00:22 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross Message-ID: <199801201903.TAA08062@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Sounds like (oh my God I'm about to step in it now) the Battle of Britain with > it's grossly overstated threat by a grossly overstated Luftwaffe- Are you serious? Are you unaware of how near the Germans came to invasion in 1940? Another topic - Don, please accept my apologies if you think some of my replies are too caustic. It seems to me that we have many pages of discussion about technical details and a little spat now and again helps keep life interesting. Hell - he did say my support of the underdog was merely a matter of national propaganda. Anyway, lets all disagree but stay friends! Unfortunately I'm off for a few days to my company's 98 Kick-Off meeting in some Castle in the back of beyond - but I'll look forward to my Inbox when I get back. Best regards to everybody Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:21:17 -0500 From: Don RInker To: wwi Subject: Re: Parachutes - was purple Albatross Message-ID: <34C5073D.49AA@fast.net> Sandy Adam wrote: > > > Sounds like (oh my God I'm about to step in it now) the Battle of Britain > Another topic - Don, please accept my apologies if you think some of my > replies are too caustic. > > Best regards to everybody > Sandy Saw this on Sandy's wall right after he left........ " Crush your enemies; see them driven before you. Listen to the lamentations of their women..." Oppps no, that was Conan the Barbarian, sorry..... ( runs and hides behind door) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:25:56 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Parachutes and pathology- was purple Albatross Message-ID: <4163b1a5.34c4ec36@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-20 13:11:05 EST, you write: << the fliers from both sides represented the gamut of human experience--from the gallant to the scumbags (i seem to recall mick mannock saying how much he enjoyed sending the hun down in flames, sizzle sizzle pop). RE, BE, and FE crews were crewed by such and IMHO they wouldn't really dig the label of "victim" while doing their duty. >> I enjoy learning about almost all phases of WW I aviation- including the fighters, but the 2-seater guys and their airplanes seem more interesting. Not just pilots either- I want to know the lives of the riggers, mechanics, fitters etc.. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:55:07 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross (really) Message-ID: Way back when this thread was truly concerned with the subject line I found it interesting that no one brought up the fact that there is a decal for this aircraft. Digging in my collection I found that this was the subject of Superscale sheet #72-770 (sorry, don't have a reference for the 1/48 sheet, though I think it exists), released sometime in 1997. The instruction sheet credits the color scheme to Dan San Abbott who says this machine was overall "faded" black (i.e. dark grey). On the decal sheet the "comet", ribboned star or whatever is yellow with medium grey trim while the "reversed" color crosses on the fuselage are grey with BLACK borders, while on the rudder its grey with a white border. I won't even pretend to know what colors were found on the original machine, I will say that this is not a scheme I would have devised from looking at existing photos of this machine. Now back to the continuing argument as to whose murderers ...err pilots had the deck stacked against them. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu >Carlos, > >I agree about it possibly being black, the profile was based on what I read >at the time I did it back in 1989. However I haven't seen any reference on >it suggesting black. Does anyone have Dan Abbotts drawing of this aircraft >(does he have one?) ? > >One other reason is the white/red comet would show up so much better on a >black fuselage, or a black/white comet on a purple fuselage, or a . . . . . > >Come on guys! lets get that time machine built and settle this (and Udet's >D.VII - Hah I said those words again) once and for all :-) > >regards, > Bob Pearson > >---------- >> From: Carlos Valdes >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross >> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:57:14 -0500 >> >> Bob, >> >> > I have done a profile of this aircraft in the purple scheme. Although I >> > would like it to have been black, when Jon Guttman and Greg Vanwyngarden >> > viewed it they commented that purple is readily made from blue and red, >so >> > purple is a possibility. All references I have seen suggest pruple >overall >> > with white and red comet. The crosses are in revese colour as well. If >you >> > would like a copy let me know. >> >> I had a conversation (or it could have been via correspondence) with >> Greg V. in which he opined that this a/c was probably black. This >> opinion was in aprt based on vB.'s being shot down in a black D.V. >> Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:41:32 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Active & Passive Undersides Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980120194132.006bad88@philonline.com.ph> >The surfaces were uniformly even on all craft with only the >> slightest definition of rib tape. Indeed on the Alb. DVa there was the >> slightest hint of convexity of canvas between the supportive tapes. This is why, after thinning the top and bottom halves of a wing, gluing them together with super glue, I further thin it down by sanding the underside, obliterating all detail in the process. No matter, the bottom surface was smooth anyway. I deal with thick short-run injection wings the same way. Someone else uses an orbital sander ;-) ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 856 *********************