WWI Digest 853 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you by Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton 2) Re: FYI by "Tom Werner Hansen" 3) Re: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you by Ernest Thomas 4) Re: FYI by Carlos Valdes 5) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 6) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by KarrArt 7) Re: Yipee! by KarrArt 8) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by TPT PUMPER 9) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by TPT PUMPER 10) RE: Color Profiles of WW1 Combat Planes (was Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross) by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 11) Active & Passive Undersides by Matthew Zivich 12) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 13) Re: Toko kits by infosilver@czechia.com 14) Re: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 15) Re: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you by DavidL1217 16) RE: Toko kits by Shane Weier 17) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by TPT PUMPER 18) Re: 1998 WW1 Calendar by Graham Nash 19) Re: Yipee! by Graham Nash 20) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by "Sandy Adam" 21) More books found by Graham Nash 22) Syndicate still wanted. by Graham Nash ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:01:47 -0800 From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton To: wwi Subject: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you Message-ID: <34C2FA5B.7D31@connectorsystems.co.nz> I have a limited run 1/48th scale injection moulded kit of an early Albatross scout- I think a DI or DII. Not being frightfully keen on Hun aircraft (an elderly maiden aunt gave me aversion therapy at a very young age) I'd like it to go to someone who will use it, even if it is as a source of spares. Since the kit came to me in a plastic bag without instructions or decals, I cannot give you its provenance. It's in grey plastic, with alternative white metal engines and a choice of radiators. There is a standing pilot figure. The original purchaser has started to thin down the trailing edges of the mainplanes, and has clearly given up in disgust. It has the feel of a Merlin or Pegasus effort. If this of any use to anyone pleae let me know - I'm quite happy for it to go to a good home, but if you have something you want to trade that would be a bonus. Cheers Aidrian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:28:19 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: FYI Message-ID: <199801181342.OAA03821@d1o211.telia.com> Carlos. Where is this Polish shop? Tom ---------- > From: Carlos Valdes > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: FYI > Date: 17. januar 1998 17:16 > > Found this at a Polish on-line hobby shop (some snipping): > > TOKO has announced its releasing plans for 1998 - here they are: > Sopwith 7F1 Snipe and Nieuport 11 Bebe (1/72, Feb.) > Hansa Brandenburg W29, Aviatik Berg D I (Mar.) > Hansa Brandenburg D I, Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter (Apr) > > The Pfalz D.XII and SSW D.III/IV are already > out. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:38:00 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you Message-ID: <34C213C8.2514@bellsouth.net> Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton wrote: > > I have a limited run 1/48th scale injection moulded kit of an early > Albatross scout- I think a DI or DII. Not being frightfully keen on Hun > aircraft (an elderly maiden aunt gave me aversion therapy at a very > young age) I'd like it to go to someone who will use it, even if it is > as a source of spares. > > Since the kit came to me in a plastic bag without instructions or > decals, I cannot give you its provenance. > > It's in grey plastic, with alternative white metal engines and a choice > of radiators. There is a standing pilot figure. The original purchaser > has started to thin down the trailing edges of the mainplanes, and has > clearly given up in disgust. It has the feel of a Merlin or Pegasus > effort. > > If this of any use to anyone pleae let me know - I'm quite happy for it > to go to a good home, but if you have something you want to trade that > would be a bonus. > > Cheers > > Aidrian Aidrian, I'm interested. Do you build 48 or 72. I have some things too trade. Get back to me. Thanks. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:28:07 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: FYI Message-ID: <34C03357.54B@conted.gatech.edu> Tom, The shop's at http://www.gphobby.krakow.pl/index.htm Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:05:12 -0500 From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <199801181805.NAA01992@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 08:07 PM 1/17/98 -0500, TPT PUMPER wrote: > > How could I help with the List Time Machine? We need to settle key issues: >Udet's striper, Voss' Dr.I cowl, 425/17 red, and a few other explosive and >List consuming items. > Ira You missed the biggest one...real PC-10 samples! Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:37:25 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <533a04f7.34c259f7@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-18 13:03:47 EST, you write: << How could I help with the List Time Machine? We need to settle key issues: >Udet's striper, Voss' Dr.I cowl, 425/17 red, and a few other explosive and >List consuming items. > Ira You missed the biggest one...real PC-10 samples! Mike Muth >> Heck, while we're there, let's just get a big bucket full of the stuff, and some dope and maybe peanut butter jars filled with the various varnishes.Then we can sneak across the lines and go to the Fokker factory and nick some of the green-brown junk they used to streak their products .After lunch we can lurk in the Pfalz Pfactory and see if the D IIIs had their cockoit interiors shot with the aluminum stuff.Maybe a nap, then back across the lines to have look-see at the French- were their bottoms yellow? light blue-gray?( I mean the airplanes).Criss-crossing through time as well as space, we could check out the early Nieuports- post CDL but pre 5-color. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:37:26 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Yipee! Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-18 05:15:29 EST, you write: << Charlie Schaedel, yes. He wrote an exceptional little book on the Australian Flying Corps. Mick. >> It was indeed a fine little book. A few years ago it was remaindered and I forget whether I got mine through Zenith or Squadron Shop but I paid something like $8 US. Good photos ( even has a couple of those GENUINE color photos on the back cover), good info smoothly written and fine color.It's a great introductory over view of the AFC in WW I Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:01:45 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <86b003e8.34c25fad@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-18 13:03:47 EST, you write: > > How could I help with the List Time Machine? We need to settle key issues: > > >Udet's striper, Voss' Dr.I cowl, 425/17 red, and a few other explosive and > >List consuming items. > > > Ira > You missed the biggest one...real PC-10 samples! > Mike Muth > AAAAAAAAKKK!!!! Mike, I am most apologetic about my omission. Please forgive me, please! I can't think of everything, can I? Head bowed in shame, IRA kneeling in uncooked rice ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:13:12 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <6e627aec.34c2625b@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-18 14:42:56 EST, you write: > Heck, while we're there, let's just get a big bucket full of the stuff, and > some dope and maybe peanut butter jars filled with the various varnishes. > Then > we can sneak across the lines and go to the Fokker factory and nick some of > the green-brown junk they used to streak their products .After lunch we can > lurk in the Pfalz Pfactory and see if the D IIIs had their cockoit interiors > shot with the aluminum stuff.Maybe a nap, then back across the lines to have > look-see at the French- were their bottoms yellow? light blue-gray?( I mean > the airplanes).Criss-crossing through time as well as space, we could check > out the early Nieuports- post CDL but pre 5-color. > Robert > Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good idea, Robert, but who would sing the flute part? Dunh Dunh Dunh Dunh Dunh Dunh Dunh Dunh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:41:42 -0600 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Color Profiles of WW1 Combat Planes (was Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross) Message-ID: <01BD241F.324DFD80.panz-meador@vsti.com> that's the citation. two other books that are pretty nice are: "eisernes kreuz und balkenkreuz", subtld. markings of german a/c in wwI 1914-1918, by h.j. nowarra, verlag dieter hoffman, mainz, 1968. color drawings by horst lo"bner. a nice german/english book with 3 main parts: intro and short history of the war, with orders of battle for major periods, listing of naval serial numbers, etc., with a complete english translation; b/w photos, with eng/ger captions; and color side-views, perspective views, and a 3-view of stark's d-vii (jasta 35). the photos are not necesarilly the greatest in terms of reproduction, but are quite varied and cover fighter, recce/ground attack, bomber, and marine a/c. as an example, the line-up of jasta 5 is of lesser quality than the same photo in the doubleday profile of the albatross d-iii, viz, the bavarian guy that had his vertical tail fin finished in blue/white lozenges (bavarian flag-type, not camo-type). in nowarra, it is just BARELY discernable, whereas the profile clearly shows lozenge. however, that's a minor problem (sub-gripe level) compared to the breadth of the photo selection, e.g. bombers with their own albatri escort fighter, finished in the bomber's camo, a phalz e-1 (sure is purty with the black accents on the fuesalage lines), etc. stark's d-vii is finished is a scheme different than the lilac tail-cowl-band-chevron shown in the recent "aeroplane" issue. and "die deutschen milita"r-flugzeuge 1910-1918" by kroschel and stu"tzer, verlag lohse-eissing, wilhemshaven, 1977, ISBN 3 920602 18 8. this has a general intro (all in german), 1:144 scale 3-views of 127 differenct a/c, and data tables for these and many more a/c in the back. the latter also includes short company profiles that are interesting (i didn't realize that AGO and Otto were the same thing...). the a/c tables are easily figurable-outable because there is a short multi-language technical glossary. the 3-views (all b/w outline drawings) are split in plan view so you see upper/lower, like the old munson books. the only color is on the dust jacket, but a good reference book. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson [SMTP:bpearson@kaien.com] Sent: Saturday, January 17, 1998 4:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Color Profiles of WW1 Combat Planes (was Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross) Charlie, Color Profiles of WW1 Combat Planes by Giorgio Apostolo & Giorgio Begnozzi, Crescent books 1974. The five view profiles are great, the rest of the 300 or so side views are suspect in many cases. But this was one of my two *bibles* twenty years ago. Regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:17:26 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Active & Passive Undersides Message-ID: Recently while viewing some photographs that I had taken of WWI aircraft at the Smithson. Air/Space Mus. (Snipe, Voisin, Alb DVa, etc.) & some my son had taken at the Imp. War Mus., London (Camel, BE.), I noticed the undersides of the wings (all were above eye level) were not noticeably defined with the "starved cow" look of protruding ribs beneath canvas. The surfaces were uniformly even on all craft with only the slightest definition of rib tape. Indeed on the Alb. DVa there was the slightest hint of convexity of canvas between the supportive tapes. After noting this I glanced at my own varied collection of 1/48th, aeroplanes also above eye level and noted the variety of definitions of wing undersides. Those that had the starved cow definition appeared overstated (Aurora Alb.C-III for example) while those that may have been criticized for lack of definition (other early Auroras) appeared closer to my photographs in unders. appearance. Could it be then, that plance in flight with wind resistance would have one kind of definition whereas planes meant for, say, dioramas or not in flight would have another kind of definition? Matt Z. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:27:48 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <34C281E4.4C4F@ricochet.net> > We could even warn MvR about Brown and the Aussie gunners . . . ! I'd rather warn Hawker & give him a souped-up Bristol scout with an overwing Lewis. >:-) Cheers, -- --------------------------------------- This e-mail has been brought to you by - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 22:19:38 -01 From: infosilver@czechia.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:43:40 -0500 Carlos Valdes wrote: >> I sent an e-mail to Silverbirds a week ago asking for current availability >> on these Toko kits and haven't heard a thing back. I'd like to hear from >> anyone on the list who's cracked the box on either of these. Are they newly >> engineered models? Knock-offs of existing kits? What? And what about the >> quality (HitKit level, Pegasus level or *drool* Dragon level)? > > I've recently ordered these from Silverbird along with the >once-again-in-stock Hippo Berg D.I. All I know about the Toko kits is >that, according to Ivan, they do not come with any lozenge decals; >lozenged versions will be available later at a higher price. > Carlos Gentlemen, I obtained the correct address to post to the list right now so let me to answer your questions directly. Toko and ICM companies are situated at Ukrainian capital Kiev. There is a great concentration of former USSR military facilities there with good technologic sources and qualified workers to produce the state-of-art toolings. All Toko and ICM kits are high pressure injection molded kits. All molds are newly engineered and compare in quality to better Airfix WWI kits. First WWI kit Pfalz D.XII comes in low-weight cardboard box containing two sprues molded in light grey styrene and holding 28 parts. All parts are well molded with little flash and sport a combination of fine negative and positive engraving, but on all wing surfaces there is an attempt to show fabric weave made apparently from free hand. Little decal sheet provides German "Balkenkreuze" for eight positions, registration number (Pfa. D.XII 2600/18), weight table, manufacturer's insignia for prop blades and struts orientation markings. Greater decal sheets provided with better version has 4-colour lozenge for both sides of upper and lower wing. There is no difference between upper and lower side decals and colour shades are OMO a little weird: approx. grey green, middle blue, yellow and light brown. For decal sample see http://www.czechia.com/silverbird/loztoko.jpg Instruction sheet and colouring scheme on the box back suggest Oblt. G. Klein's silver-grey plane with yellow nose, tail and wheels, summer 1918, and grey-green plane with white rudder and struts and lozenge wings of an anonymous Bavarian Jasta, autumn 1918. Kit does not include any resin, white metal or photoetched parts. I still haven't tried to build it so I can say nothing to the fit of parts. Overall in-box rating: well above average molded parts with not so good lozenge decals. HTH Ivan Subrt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:52:05 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you Message-ID: <199801182252.AA13358@ednet1.orednet.org> Aidrian typed: -snips- >It's in grey plastic, with alternative white metal engines and a choice >of radiators. There is a standing pilot figure. The original purchaser >has started to thin down the trailing edges of the mainplanes, and has >clearly given up in disgust. It has the feel of a Merlin or Pegasus >effort. Sounds _exactly_ like the Merlin Albatros D.II effort. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:41:35 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatross kit to trade, give away or what have you Message-ID: <443a1842.34c28521@aol.com> This may be the Merlin DII from roughly 10 years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:10:43 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Toko kits Message-ID: <199801182319.JAA26531@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hello all, I am *very* pleased that Ivan has now de-lurked and posted an interestin in box review including this bit on the Toko Pfalz D.XII >Little decal sheet provides German "Balkenkreuze" for eight positions, >registration number (Pfa. D.XII 2600/18), weight table, manufacturer's >insignia for prop blades and struts orientation markings. Greater decal >sheets provided with better version has 4-colour lozenge for both sides of >upper and lower wing. There is no difference between upper and lower side >decals and colour shades are OMO a little weird: approx. grey green, middle >blue, yellow and light brown. The aircraft mentioned is the Australian War Memorials Pfalz D.XII If so, 4 colour loz is not correct regardless of whether the colours are (as Ivan says) "a little weird" The aircraft as restored is covered in 5 colour repro loz. While the precise shades of this may be argued, the aircraft was restored to a high level of accuracy, including the correct pattern of fabric. On a related subject - the list discussed the colour of the pfalz interior some months back. At the time I hadn't received my photos from a visit to the museum last year and could only remember that the interior was *not* wood, but not recall whether it was silbergrau or grey. Having spent some time with the photos on the weekend I can report that any modeller who uses a grey close to or slightly paler than(off topic) Light Gull Grey will have little trouble with the verdamt colour police. If the interior *is* silbergrau there is no metallic appearance at all. Incidentally, while the cockpit interior may have been repainted during restoration, the restoration is reputed to be an excellent one, and to my eyes the cockpit is very convincing Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:12:08 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <710438cb.34c29a5e@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-18 17:32:10 EST, you write: > > We could even warn MvR about Brown and the Aussie gunners . . . ! > > I'd rather warn Hawker & give him a souped-up Bristol scout with an > overwing Lewis. >:-) > DONE, sir! (Robert, put that on the "Way Back--Things to Do" List!) (And we'll have no whining about that Prime Directive nonsense . . . ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:46:16 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Re: 1998 WW1 Calendar Message-ID: <199801190845.AA14943@egate2.citicorp.com> Joey Valenciano wrote: > > First of all, Graham, many many thanks for the complete calendar. > > Hi all, > > Since many of you now own the calendar, I'm posting this on the list. > I was surprised, honored, and amused (At least it wasn't incensed, outraged and angry...) to see one of my own drawings included > in the calendar. It's the black Albatros D.V, where'd you get it Graham? > Just curious. > > A little explanation about the drawing for those interested: > Udet flew it, hence the "LO" > The lower wing should have a cross on the lower surface > This plane is drawn as a D.V, the actual plane with this scheme was a D.Va > > Graham, where'd you get the profile of the twin seater on the Nov-Dec .jpg? > Alas, I do not keep details of exactly where I find jpgs/gifs on the Net, although I do keep all interesting URL's in my bookmarks. However, I'm fairly sure it was from what is now a back edition of Chandelle. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:12:38 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Re: Yipee! Message-ID: <199801190911.AA15556@egate2.citicorp.com> Dave Watts wrote: > I got mine Friday from Wise Owl, I'm with ya, this thing "kicks rudder"! > Great insights, and conclusions, as well as some unpublished photos. > Dave > Actually, one of the more interesting insight IMHO was that the D.VII fuselage, was not as smooth as drawings would have us believe, and was more angular at each station owing to the fact that it was composed of STRAIGHT sections of tubing. This begs the question that Dr.I's, D.VI's and D.VIII/E.V's would show the same characteristics, even allowing for shorter bodies. And in fact, we do know this to be the case, because of the 'imaginary seam' show in the Dr.I Special, just to the right of centre of the fuselage cross, caused by thr fabric coming up against a station at that point. Rgds ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:18:51 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <199801190926.JAA10518@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > > We could even warn MvR about Brown and the Aussie gunners . . . ! > > I'd rather warn Hawker & give him a souped-up Bristol scout with an > overwing Lewis. >:-) Absolutely Darius, but considering how grossly unfair the original contest was, why not let's even it up the other way and give him a Spitfire! Isn't it a shame that Hawker's pusher was so outclassed - if he could just have had a Pup a few weeks later, he could have stopped the murdering little Prussian in his tracks there and then. Just think - no Red Baron crap to have to put up with ever after! Wishfully Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:42:25 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: More books found Message-ID: <199801190941.AA16192@egate2.citicorp.com> Received the following on a booklist: Softbacks --------- The First Great Air War (Richard Townshend Bickers) GBP5/USD8 Sopwith Camel Vintage Av.Fotofax (J.M.Bruce) GBP4/USD7 Richtofen (William E.Burrows) GBP4/USD7 Sagittarius Rising (Cecil Lewis) GBP4/USD7 Bloody April (Alan Morris) see list comments-recommended GBP3/USD5 Hardbacks --------- Aces & Aircraft of WW1 (Chris Campbell) GBP10/USD17 German Warbirds (Vigilant a k a Sykes)poor spine GBP12/USD20 " " " giood copy GBP15/USD25 Albert Ball VC (Chaz Bowyer 1994 Ed) GBP10/USD17 Fighter Pilots of WW1 (Robert Jackson) GBP8/USD13 Bombers, 1914-1919 (Kenneth Munson) GBP5/USD8 Trenchard (Andrew Boyle) GBP10/USD17 'Faction' (or Fact based fiction a la Winged Victory) Paperbacks ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Goshawk Squadron (Derek Robinson) GBP3/USD5 A Killing for the Hawks (Frederick E Smith) GBP3/USD5 Aces High (William Hughes) GBP3/USD5 Let me know off-list if anyone's interested. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:11:44 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Syndicate still wanted. Message-ID: <199801191011.AA16854@egate2.citicorp.com> As an update, it looks like the seller will only sell them as a set, so we're looking for likely purchasers for the Harleyford Fighters book and the earlier 'Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War', at GBP22.50. Hopefully, ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 853 *********************