WWI Digest 852 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by Ernest Thomas 2) Re: models and engines by Ernest Thomas 3) Re: models and engines by Bob Pearson 4) 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by KarrArt 5) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by Joey Valenciano 6) Re: models and engines by Ernest Thomas 7) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by Ernest Thomas 8) Re: Toko kits by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 9) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by KarrArt 10) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by Ernest Thomas 11) Re: Yipee! by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 12) Monnington's D.V by Jim Elkins 13) Re: models and engines by Ernest Thomas 14) Re: Toko kits by Carlos Valdes 15) Re: Monnington's D.V by Bob Pearson 16) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by Bob Pearson 17) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by Ernest Thomas 18) Re: 425/17 fabric by Dave Watts 19) Re: 425/17 fabric by Ernest Thomas 20) Re: Albatros W.4 by huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) 21) Re: Albatros W.4 by Bob Pearson 22) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by TPT PUMPER 23) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by Dave Watts 24) Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross by KarrArt 25) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by KarrArt 26) Re: Finding books by Vincent Price 27) Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference by Dave Watts 28) Seaplanes and beaching trolleys by Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton 29) Re: Yipee! by Mick Fauchon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:49:47 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <34C15FBB.5144@bellsouth.net> TPT PUMPER wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > I have DS Abbott's drawing of the von Bertrab D.III. He calls the fuselage > black, the comet possibly yellow, and the crosses overpainted white (lighter > border--black still visible through paint. Wings are red-brown/green over > light blue. > > How could I help with the List Time Machine? We need to settle key issues: > Udet's striper, Voss' Dr.I cowl, 425/17 red, and a few other explosive and > List consuming items. > > Ready to dodge hurled invectives, I am still . . . > > Having Fun!! > > IRA 425/17 red shouldn't be that hard to settle. The Balkenkreuze from the fuselage sides are both still in existence. They were removed from the A/C by L/Cpl A E Putman, 32 battalion, AIF. The left side cross resides in the Royal Canadian Military Institute in Toronto, given to them by Captain Roy Brown. The right side cross was given to a doctor who saved Putman's life. It hung on the doctors wall until it was auctioned in london in 1994. I don't know who the new owner is. So do we have anybody on the list who lives in or near Toronto who could pop over and take a look? That would settle it. And it would be alot cheaper & easier than time travel. Incidently, these crosses are the historical artifact that I would want more than any other. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:14:01 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: models and engines Message-ID: <34C16569.5258@bellsouth.net> KarrArt wrote: > > Hey Ernest- nice work.I'm going to memorize and ripoff your cowl burnishing > method! > Pretty honkin' fine engine photos too. > Robert Robert, Plagerism is the sincerest form of flattery. Thanks. As far as the engines go, Wylam drawings are nice but nothing like the real thing. I just wish I could remember if it was the 160 or 180hp. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:39:21 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: models and engines Message-ID: <02392175756348@KAIEN.COM> Ernest, Going by the details, it appears to be the 180 D.IIIa. Bob ---------- > From: Ernest Thomas > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: models and engines > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:19:54 -0500 > > KarrArt wrote: > > > > Hey Ernest- nice work.I'm going to memorize and ripoff your cowl burnishing > > method! > > Pretty honkin' fine engine photos too. > > Robert > > Robert, > > Plagerism is the sincerest form of flattery. Thanks. > As far as the engines go, Wylam drawings are nice but nothing like the > real thing. I just wish I could remember if it was the 160 or 180hp. > > E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:02:34 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <6b2e79a.34c170cc@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-17 21:17:18 EST, you write: << Wylam drawings are nice but nothing like the real thing. I just wish I could remember if it was the 160 or 180hp. >> (Not 100% sure on this) but on the 180 the valve-spring assemblies are in FRONT of the the respective rocker boxes and on the 160 they're centered.Your engine is a 180. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:29:42 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980118092942.006b2e3c@philonline.com.ph> > How could I help with the List Time Machine? We need to settle key issues: >Udet's striper, Voss' Dr.I cowl, 425/17 red, and a few other explosive and >List consuming items. Hi Ira, I believe the Time Machine being developed can only view things in black and white. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:23:55 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: models and engines Message-ID: <34C175CB.1EB2@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Ernest, > > Going by the details, it appears to be the 180 D.IIIa. > > Bob > Bob, Thanks. Not to refute you but I seem to remember the sign next to it said 160hp. But I could be wrong. It happened once before. Let's see if anyone else comments. We'll go with the best argument. If no one else has an opinion, I'll e-mail Mr. Tidmore and let him know it's a 180. Thanks again. Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:30:38 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <34C1775E.1092@bellsouth.net> KarrArt wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-17 21:17:18 EST, you write: > > << Wylam drawings are nice but nothing like the > real thing. I just wish I could remember if it was the 160 or 180hp. > >> > (Not 100% sure on this) but on the 180 the valve-spring assemblies are in > FRONT > of the the respective rocker boxes and on the 160 they're centered.Your engine > is a 180. > Robert OK. That's 2 votes for the 180. Looks like I'm wrong again. 2nd time in 33 years. (ha ha! for those w/ no S.O.H.) E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:51:54 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: Matt asked, > >Anybody have the Pfalz and SSW yet? > Matt, I sent an e-mail to Silverbirds a week ago asking for current availability on these Toko kits and haven't heard a thing back. I'd like to hear from anyone on the list who's cracked the box on either of these. Are they newly engineered models? Knock-offs of existing kits? What? And what about the quality (HitKit level, Pegasus level or *drool* Dragon level)? Kevin Barrett ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:40:32 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <728e018.34c179b2@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-17 22:34:16 EST, you write: << (Not 100% sure on this) but on the 180 the valve-spring assemblies are in > FRONT > of the the respective rocker boxes and on the 160 they're centered.Your engine > is a 180. > Robert OK. That's 2 votes for the 180. E. >> After digging through another ton of references I'm gonna amend the"not 100%sure" to "dammit-now I'm positive!" Good golly, I did have it right! Among other info-puddles I checked a few WW I Aeros, the NASM Alb Dv book and Wylam. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:07:39 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <34C1800B.1C4E@bellsouth.net> KarrArt wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-17 22:34:16 EST, you write: > > << (Not 100% sure on this) but on the 180 the valve-spring assemblies are in > > FRONT > > of the the respective rocker boxes and on the 160 they're centered.Your > engine > > is a 180. > > Robert > > OK. That's 2 votes for the 180. > > E. >> > > After digging through another ton of references I'm gonna amend the"not > 100%sure" to "dammit-now I'm positive!" Good golly, I did have it right! Among > other info-puddles I checked a few WW I Aeros, the NASM Alb Dv book and > Wylam. > Robert OK OK! You win. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:26:37 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Yipee! Message-ID: <001801bd23c9$54d3b080$5718c2cf@rayboorm> I believe the colourful Hunters in December's Scale Aviation Modeller International were by Jaunita Franzi too. (honest I didnt really look at the jets!) Ray Boorman -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Yipee! > >She also did the recent FMP Brandenburg D.I book. I agree - nice clear work. > >Regards, > Bob Pearson > >---------- >> From: KarrArt >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: Re: Yipee! >> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:40:45 -0500 >> >> In a message dated 98-01-15 17:43:03 EST, you write: >> >> << Is anyone familiar with the backgrounds of contributors Juanita >> >Franzi >> >> She did cockpit drawings for the Gotha Datafile, and I believe I've seen >her >> RE 8 and Fokker E III cockpits. Nice clear drafts(wo)manship. >> Robert > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:14:07 -0800 From: Jim Elkins To: wwi Subject: Monnington's D.V Message-ID: <34C102FF.5805@swbell.net> OTF Vol 9 No 3 (JAGD2 Jagdstaffel 15; pps. 258-259) has a photo and line drawing of Ltn Monnington's Albatros D.V. The color scheme in the article is speculative. Does anyone have an opinion on the jagged scheme? Olive / Brown over Lt. Blue? TIA, JIM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:52:56 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: models and engines Message-ID: <34C18AA8.7EC5@bellsouth.net> KarrArt wrote: > > Hey Ernest- nice work.I'm going to memorize and ripoff your cowl burnishing > method! > Pretty honkin' fine engine photos too. > Robert Hey Robert, I know you're busy with a 0/400 but hows about writing me up a more detailed "how-to" on your Linberg OX-5 in exchange for that burnished cowl method? At your liesure, of course. Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:46:18 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: <34C0298A.6431@conted.gatech.edu> > I sent an e-mail to Silverbirds a week ago asking for current availability > on these Toko kits and haven't heard a thing back. I'd like to hear from > anyone on the list who's cracked the box on either of these. Are they newly > engineered models? Knock-offs of existing kits? What? And what about the > quality (HitKit level, Pegasus level or *drool* Dragon level)? I've recently ordered these from Silverbird along with the once-again-in-stock Hippo Berg D.I. All I know about the Toko kits is that, according to Ivan, they do not come with any lozenge decals; lozenged versions will be available later at a higher price. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:43:09 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Monnington's D.V Message-ID: <05430918456695@KAIEN.COM> Jim, I did a profile of this aircraft as green over varnished wood. regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: Jim Elkins > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Monnington's D.V > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:44:46 -0500 > > OTF Vol 9 No 3 (JAGD2 Jagdstaffel 15; pps. 258-259) has a photo and line > drawing of Ltn Monnington's Albatros D.V. The color scheme in the > article is speculative. Does anyone have an opinion on the jagged > scheme? Olive / Brown over Lt. Blue? > TIA, > JIM > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:43:59 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <05435927656698@KAIEN.COM> E. I will add that the water pipe (?) connecting the cylinder to the water pump is present at the rear on the D.IIIa and not the D.III. However In your favour they are good photos :-) Bob ---------- > From: Ernest Thomas > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:13:53 -0500 > > KarrArt wrote: > > > > In a message dated 98-01-17 22:34:16 EST, you write: > > > > << (Not 100% sure on this) but on the 180 the valve-spring assemblies are in > > > FRONT > > > of the the respective rocker boxes and on the 160 they're centered.Your > > engine > > > is a 180. > > > Robert > > > > OK. That's 2 votes for the 180. > > > > E. >> > > > > After digging through another ton of references I'm gonna amend the"not > > 100%sure" to "dammit-now I'm positive!" Good golly, I did have it right! Among > > other info-puddles I checked a few WW I Aeros, the NASM Alb Dv book and > > Wylam. > > Robert > > OK OK! You win. > > E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:56:08 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <34C19978.61AF@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > E. > > I will add that the water pipe (?) connecting the cylinder to the water pump > is present at the rear on the D.IIIa and not the D.III. However In your > favour they are good photos :-) > > Bob > Bob, Thanks. Did you check out the OX-5 yet. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:11:56 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: 425/17 fabric Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118011156.007c75d0@192.168.0.5> Ernest wrote; >425/17 red shouldn't be that hard to settle. The Balkenkreuze from the >fuselage sides are both still in existence. They were removed from the >A/C by L/Cpl A E Putman, 32 battalion, AIF. The left side cross resides >in the Royal Canadian Military Institute in Toronto, given to them by >Captain Roy Brown. The right side cross was given to a doctor who saved >Putman's life. It hung on the doctors wall until it was auctioned in >london in 1994. I don't know who the new owner is. >So do we have anybody on the list who lives in or near Toronto who could >pop over and take a look? That would settle it. And it would be alot >cheaper & easier than time travel. >Incidently, these crosses are the historical artifact that I would want >more than any other. I know Alex Imrie was used to certify/authenticate the cross insignia that was auctioned off. He said that under extreme examination quite a bit a castor oil/grease was found, (logically), at the lower bottom area and edge, making it appear darker than it would be if cleaned. In any case I am certain he has pretty exact documentation on color values. As to the sale, the final bidder backed out, and the reserve bid was negotiated with an American, who purchased it for $24,000. That's big bucks, but I can't believe some high roller German didn't buy it, it has to be one of the most well know/infamous pieces of WWI/military aviation. I would have thought it would have gone for more $. Dave Quote for the night, loosely recalled, "If this pilots good, I mean if he's sharp, he can take a big bird, like a 52, he can get that thing down, so low,.....it's quite a sight Mr.President,..... that he can be flying below the trees with jet exhaust frying chickens in the barnyard" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:45:14 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: 425/17 fabric Message-ID: <34C1A4FA.5B83@bellsouth.net> Dave Watts wrote: > > > I know Alex Imrie was used to certify/authenticate the cross insignia that > was auctioned off. He said that under extreme examination quite a bit a > castor oil/grease was found, (logically), at the lower bottom area and > edge, making it appear darker than it would be if cleaned. In any case I > am certain he has pretty exact documentation on color values. > As to the sale, the final bidder backed out, and the reserve bid was > negotiated with an American, who purchased it for $24,000. That's big > bucks, but I can't believe some high roller German didn't buy it, it has to > be one of the most well know/infamous pieces of WWI/military aviation. I > would have thought it would have gone for more $. > > Dave > Dave, Thanks for filling in that part of the puzzle for me. I thought it would have gone for more too. Unfortunatly, in 1994, I was in the U.S. with maybe $50.00 to my name so I had no opportunity to buy it anyway. And I know this will probably make alot of guys on this list cringe, but as far as 425/17 goes, I've always been satisfied with good ole insignia red. I like to keep things simple. Ernest "An Army helicopter is 10,000 moving parts assembled by the lowest bidder". anon. chopper pilot I once met. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:53:07 -0600 (CST) From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros W.4 Message-ID: snip >Am I the only one who wishes Pegasus/MPM/whomever would supply beaching >"dollies" with their seaplanes? Matt, you are not alone in this area. Some float planes need a dolly or something just to display them in a decent way. John Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:07:42 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Albatros W.4 Message-ID: <07074253956839@KAIEN.COM> The Formaplane Rumpler 6B1 comes with dollies and trestles - granted they are vacform, but they are a start. Bob ---------- > From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Albatros W.4 > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:56:52 -0500 > > snip > > >Am I the only one who wishes Pegasus/MPM/whomever would supply beaching > >"dollies" with their seaplanes? > > Matt, you are not alone in this area. Some float planes need a dolly or > something just to display them in a decent way. > John > > Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:08:03 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: Hi Robert! I, for one, would side with you on the black area of Baumer's Jasta 5 D.V. Not that I have any special insight, but it seems the overwelming majority of markings seen on WWI a/c are black and white. It makes sense--black and white were readily available, and red was on the rare side. For the same reason, I would guess the von Bertrab Albatros to be black, not purple. Have Fun!! IRA Hand me that 10mm wrench, will ya? I need to work on the reflux transducers and the accordance mixolydiate modulator, or we'll never know these colors! We could even warn MvR about Brown and the Aussie gunners . . . ! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:18:49 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118021849.007e3e90@192.168.0.5> At 11:13 PM 1/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >KarrArt wrote: In a message dated 98-01-17 22:34:16 EST, you write: (Not 100% sure on this) but on the 180 the valve-spring assemblies are in FRONT of the the respective rocker boxes and on the 160 they're centered.Your engine is a 180. Robert OK. That's 2 votes for the 180. E. After digging through another ton of references I'm gonna amend the"not 100%sure" to "dammit-now I'm positive!" Good golly, I did have it right! Among other info-puddles I checked a few WW I Aeros, the NASM Alb Dv book and Wylam. Robert >OK OK! You win. >E. Fun fact, As the war progressed, motors were always in high demand, and quite a few early, Mercedes D.III's and D.IIIa's were rebuilt at one of the big rebuild centers, either, near Vienna or Aachen (sic?), and were installed in late built D.VII's. Normally they were upgraded with higher compression, domed pistons, originally having either flat (170HP) or concave (160HP) pistons. These motors were actually manufactured earlier than the motors that went into the first production D.VII's. They can be documented as having been originally delivered to Albatros, Pfalz, etc., so a motor could have served in several planes, throughout it's lifetime. Sometimes you can't judge a book, or in this case a motor, by it's (valve) cover. Dave PS.Your right, the D.IIIa had the rockers on the front of the valve covers. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:34:21 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: JvBertrab's purple Albatross Message-ID: <74565953.34c1b080@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-18 02:09:48 EST, you write: << mixolydiate modulator, >> be careful- those things'll break yer fingers. Robert ( now the proud owner of 2 nicely matching semi-scale construction 0/400 fuselage sides) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:38:43 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-18 02:30:13 EST, you write: << Fun fact, As the war progressed, motors were always in high demand, and quite a few early, Mercedes D.III's and D.IIIa's were rebuilt at one of the big rebuild centers, either, near Vienna or Aachen (sic?), and were installed in late built D.VII's. Normally they were upgraded with higher compression, domed pistons, originally having either flat (170HP) or concave (160HP) pistons. These motors were actually manufactured earlier than the motors that went into the first production D.VII's. They can be documented as having been originally delivered to Albatros, Pfalz, etc., so a motor could have served in several planes, throughout it's lifetime. Sometimes you can't judge a book, or in this case a motor, by it's (valve) cover. Dave PS.Your right, the D.IIIa had the rockers on the front of the valve covers. >> Geez, to paraphrase the closing goody of one of our esteemed fellow list members,"the more I know the more my brain hurts" Besides the rocker covers, I gather the water pump was in a different location. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:43:11 +1100 From: Vincent Price To: wwi Subject: Re: Finding books Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980118184311.006c095c@mailhost.ausnet.net.au> I can only add to Bob's praise of the ABE Books site. I have ordered many books through the various members since Gary posted the address and have had great service from all and found books that I have been searching many years for. Vincent At 02:07 17/01/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Greetings All, > >Way back on 3 January, Gary Hackney wrote . . . >>Meanwhile I found a great >> book-finding site, www.abebooks.com. This is a network of over 1600 used >> bookstores in several countries, with on-line searchable inventories. >When >> you find what you want a form pops up that you complete and email to the >> store that has it. I searched all stores at once and found seven copies >of >> Jane's, a couple 1919 editions of Rickenbacker's "Fighting the Flying >> Circus", several copies of Springs' "War Birds", and also some Harleyford >& >> Bruce books. I also found the Munson 1914-1919 Bombers book I was >missing. > >I have since made use of this site, and found Richard Bell Davies' >autobiography that I had mentioned on the list a few months ago. To make a >long story short the book was sent two days ago and it arrived today - great >service. I also saw the JM Bruce *British Aeroplanes* book from $90, $125 >and $200 US. As I won't be able to afford this for the next while, perhaps >one of you can :-) BTW although all prices are listed as $US, the Canadian >retailer I contacted only charged me the quoted amount as $Cdn - a nice >savings. > >Regards, > Bob Pearson > >nl: Kansas: Leftoverture (Carry On Wayward Son is THE perfect song) >np: RAF BE12 >nr: Sailor in the Air (R Bell Davies bio) > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:32:40 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp vs.180hp-the difference Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118033240.007e4920@192.168.0.5> At 02:42 AM 1/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-18 02:30:13 EST, you write: > ><< Fun fact, > As the war progressed, motors were always in high demand, and quite a few > early, Mercedes D.III's and D.IIIa's were rebuilt at one of the big rebuild > centers, either, near Vienna or Aachen (sic?), and were installed in late > built D.VII's. Normally they were upgraded with higher compression, domed > pistons, originally having either flat (170HP) or concave (160HP) pistons. > These motors were actually manufactured earlier than the motors that went > into the first production D.VII's. They can be documented as having been > originally delivered to Albatros, Pfalz, etc., so a motor could have served > in several planes, throughout it's lifetime. > Sometimes you can't judge a book, or in this case a motor, by it's > (valve) cover. > > Dave > > PS.Your right, the D.IIIa had the rockers on the front of the valve covers. >>> > >Geez, to paraphrase the closing goody of one of our esteemed fellow list >members,"the more I know the more my brain hurts" >Besides the rocker covers, I gather the water pump was in a different >location. >Robert > Right, on the D.III it's high up, at the rear of the motor, above and between the magnetos. On the D.IIIa it's lower, down at the bottom of the motor. I'm sure they must have had the experience of the D.III's water pump leaking onto the magnetos, and that's not good. Like many things that's made over a period of time, they constantly improved things on the motor, some visible, others not. I have a copy of a parts catalog from Daimler that a "werker", (assumably), wrote all the "MN." motor number ranges by the according parts, for example, under camshaft housings they may list three different ones, and beside each, is a hand written entry, giving motor number ranges of motors that employed that part. I also have a matrix time line bar chart that covers the main features. At the end of the war they actually were making aluminum pistons for the Mercedes, but few , if any saw active service. The price to the army for a D.III or D.IIIa was M.14,850, for a D.IIIa.v. it was M.17,000. On "19.2.18", Feb. 19th 1918, the army ordered 1000 D.IIIa.v. motors. They delivered; 1 in Mai, 3 in Juni, 1 in Aug., 13 in Sept., 202 in Okt., 186 in Nov., and they had manufactured another 37 by Dez. 21st, making for a total of 443. Fokker received the lion's share, but few of these motors would have been installed and seen active duty. Mercedes manufactured; 9 D.III's in 1914, 1165 in 1915, 2379 in 1916, and 1604 in 1917, and 1 in 1918. D.IIIa's; 2644 in 1917, and 4044 in 1918. Total number of aircraft motors manufactured by Mercedes are; 10 for 1911, 52 for 1912, 379 for 1913, ...war begins... 956 for 1914, 3018 for 1915, 4166 for 1916, 5850 for 1917, and 6322 for 1918. Grand total 1914-1918 20,312. Whew, needed a calculator for that one. Best Wishes, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:44:12 -0800 From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton To: wwi Subject: Seaplanes and beaching trolleys Message-ID: <34C2F63C.52A5@connectorsystems.co.nz> Having a serious seaplane fetish I cannot agree more with those who want dollies with their models. I have resorted to doing some of mine as waterline models, where at least they don't look so daft, and a couple are on stands. Got a nifty idea for a diorama with a launch and a Short 184 or Fairey Campania, if I van find some appropriately attired figures. Aidrian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:19:29 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Yipee! Message-ID: Carlos, > Franzi, Dave Roberts, and Charles Schaedel? Charlie Schaedel, yes. He wrote an exceptional little book on the Australian Flying Corps. Mick. > Carlos > -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 852 *********************