WWI Digest 845 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Dr.I powerplant by Graham Nash 2) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by "John Glaser" 3) Double Acting Rotary by James Gibbons 4) Re: Albatros CX Appeal by DavidL1217 5) Re: Albatros CX Appeal by DavidL1217 6) Re: Smer Ansaldo by Patrick Padovan 7) 160hp Mercedes D.III by Bob Pearson 8) Re: German pride by Patrick Padovan 9) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Patrick Padovan 10) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Charles Hart 11) Re: Smer Ansaldo ad infinitum by Matthew Zivich 12) Re: 160hp Mercedes D.III by Carlos Valdes 13) Going to Liverpool by Pedro Nuno Soares 14) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by T HENRYS 15) RE: 160hp Mercedes D.III by Reid Sweatman 16) Italian/Austrian markings - was Smer Ansaldo by "Sandy Adam" 17) Re: Ray Brooks' -Question by John & Allison Cyganowski 18) New Products by Ernest Thomas 19) RE: New Products by Shane Weier 20) Re: Double Acting Rotary by Mark K Nelson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:03:17 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Re: Dr.I powerplant Message-ID: <199801130903.AA26929@egate2.citicorp.com> Bill Shatzer wrote: > > What, incidently, is a "double-acting" rotary engine? > I think this means that the engine rotates one way, but the prop the other, a la Siemens Schuckert D.I. The idea being that it cuts down on Torque/Gyroscopic forces. Regards ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:01:20 -0600 From: "John Glaser" To: Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <19980113120051.AAA146@johng> Thanks Alberto! - John ---------- > From: Alberto Rada > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 7:22 PM > > Hi John > > Marco's is Four Star Collectibles > P.O. Box 658 > Dracut, MA 01826 > > Tel 603 7639 > > Web site http://pages.prodigy.com/4star > > Saludos > > Alberto > > > > At 07:26 PM 12-01-98 -0500, you wrote: > >Another question from the "new guy:" > > > >How does one find Marco's? Is there a an address? Phone number? Catalog? > > > >TIA > > > >- John > > > >---------- > >> From: TPT PUMPER > >> To: Multiple recipients of list > >> Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? > >> Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 5:20 PM > >> > >> Hi Guys! > >> > >> I'll join in with the chorus on the Marco's kits. I have the > >Albatros, the > >> Pfalz, and the Nieuport 28. All are drool-stained. Good stuff! I can't > >wait > >> to settle in here in Dallas so I can actually begin construction on one! > >> Highly reccommended. I keep bugging them about their Roland D.VI kit > >which > >> was due out last spring. The last I heard they were having supplier > >problems. > >> I need another one or two drool on! > >> > >> Have Fun!! > >> > >> IRA > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:26:22 -0500 From: James Gibbons To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Double Acting Rotary Message-ID: <01BD1FFC.EF5FE220.jgibbons@vppsa.com> Hello all, Bill Shatzer was wondering what the Siemens Halske "double acting rotary" engine was... Is this the same engine used on the SS DIII (or D IV I can't remember) and also called a "contra rotary engine". If it is my possibly erroneous understanding is that it was an engine where the cylinders rotated one direction at about 800 RPM (going entirely by memory here) and the camshaft rotated the other direction at the same speed (as opposed to being fixed as in a standard rotary). As I remeber reading somewhere this setup gave more power and was better at driving a four bladed prop than the standard rotaries. I wouldn't be surprised if the DR-I (V 7/1) fitted with this engine also carried a four-bladed prop during the trials. Apologies again as I am at work and going entirely frommemory but it is rare that I read a question that I may be able to answer (and don't read four answers to it at the same time - I run on digest mode). James Gibbons ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:13:07 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros CX Appeal Message-ID: NO, I heard he supposedly flew a CIX. Odd shaped bird. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:16:37 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros CX Appeal Message-ID: The cockpit photo in Windsock is most useful. If I had a scanner, I 'd e- mail it. However, give you your snail mail address and I can send a photocopy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:02:44 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Smer Ansaldo Message-ID: Dear Sandy: Please re-read my entire message, and the proceeding entries from Matt Z. & myself, and you'll see that we said what you repeated: That we'd expect similar camo over the same terrain, but that we'd expect dis-similar national markings. Yet both A/H & Italian a/c used three color stripes as national markings! Rather unique, this, and that's our point. I question your point about marking placement being the result of placing them so that you'd look for them in the same area: surely there's not that much difference between wingtip location and inboard of ailerons, when you're scanning from a distance? It seems as if there's more going on here. . . but perhaps not. In particular, the similarity of national markings found on naval a/c of both A/H and Italy gives one pause for thought. I'd conclude that logically, large black crosses spanning both wing and aileron would be about as clear an identifier of FoF as one could ask for, but the A/H a/c were not so marked. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Sandy Adam wrote: > > > > Dear Matt: Well, exactly! If the national markings schemes were truly > > derived on the basis of logic, then (as you said) the schemes of opposing > > forces within a region should be as much un-alike as possible, rather > than > > similar. > > Two different things here surely Patrick - camouflage to hide you and > Insignia to identify you. > For the first, as you say, you would expect similar schemes over similar > terrain. > But for the second you assume you have now been seen and wish to be > identified as FoF - so you make the markings as different as possible BUT > you position them where abd how the other pilot will expect to find them. > If this means inboard of elevators or stripes across wings, for both > parties - so be it! > Sandy > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:29:47 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: 160hp Mercedes D.III Message-ID: <19294708743228@KAIEN.COM> Greetings All, I have just completed a computer profile of the 160hp Mercedes D.III engine, using the old Wylam drawings as a basis. My head hurts when I try to work out what the present scale is, but when reduced to 16.6% it becomes 1/48 scale. Anyone wanting a copy, drop me a line, the file size is 112k. Regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:10:07 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: Dear Dave: The original order banning the display of the swastika "and other Fascist symbols (!)" dates back to the period of occupation in the immediate postwar period, in both Germany and Japan, as well as Italy. This order makes perfect sense when you recall that at the time, there were still many Nazis (and Fascist Italians and Japanese) running around, who had until recently been making war against their occupiers. It is quite rational and sensible that displaying the symbols of these recently defeated regimes would be outlawed. It had nothing to do with "Political Correctness" in the modern sense, a term which hadn't yet been coined. When the first German, Italian & Japanese governments were formed, laws forbidding the display of Fascist symbols (and incidently, also forbidding any former Fascists from holding public office) were among the first laws ratified. I don't think that at the time, anyone was thinking in terms of model airplane kits. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:16:32 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: Dear Bob & John: If you're refering to the Revell 1/28 D.VII, it has lozenge camo for the TOP wing surfaces, and advises the use of "Sky Blue" for the underwing surfaces. The lozenge is lousy, and I wouldn't use it. I'd check with Americal, to see if they do a 1/28 lozenge decal, instead. I don't think I'll be building my 1/28 D.VII, anyway. It doesn't measure up to Revell's tripe, Camel or Spad, IMHO. Anyone want one? (the D.VII, that is?) By the by, I've seen other versions of this same kit which come without any lozenge decal, in the Red & White Raben scheme, instead. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, John & Allison Cyganowski wrote: > Bob Pearson wrote: > > > > Is this lozenge for all surfaces or is it just the bottom surfaces of the > > wings as per the Buchner markings option? > > > I don't have this kit. I do know it is supposed to have loz. for the > wings. As far as how much - I would like to know too. > > John Cyg. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:40:38 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: >Dear Bob & John: If you're refering to the Revell 1/28 D.VII, it has >lozenge camo for the TOP wing surfaces, and advises the use of "Sky Blue" >for the underwing surfaces. The lozenge is lousy, and I wouldn't use it. >I'd check with Americal, to see if they do a 1/28 lozenge decal, instead. >I don't think I'll be building my 1/28 D.VII, anyway. It doesn't measure >up to Revell's tripe, Camel or Spad, IMHO. Anyone want one? (the D.VII, >that is?) By the by, I've seen other versions of this same kit which come >without any lozenge decal, in the Red & White Raben scheme, instead. > Regards, Patrick To my knowledge, Americal/Gryphon presently has NO plans for producing lozenge deceals in either 1/32 or 1/28. How much do you want for your D-VII kit ? Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:15:40 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Smer Ansaldo ad infinitum Message-ID: Pat, Sandy, et. al., I've been satisfied with the innings so far on this subject. Even learned a thing or two. Still wondering about the similarity of camouflage amonst adversaries though, but admittedly probably due to basic lack of wider range knowledge of the subject, i. e. don't want to split hairs. Matt Z On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Patrick Padovan wrote: > Dear Sandy: Please re-read my entire message, and the proceeding entries > from Matt Z. & myself, and you'll see that we said what you repeated: That > we'd expect similar camo over the same terrain, but that we'd expect > dis-similar national markings. Yet both A/H & Italian a/c used three color > stripes as national markings! Rather unique, this, and that's our point. I > question your point about marking placement being the result of placing > them so that you'd look for them in the same area: surely there's not that > much difference between wingtip location and inboard of ailerons, when > you're scanning from a distance? It seems as if there's more going on > here. . . but perhaps not. In particular, the similarity of > national markings found on naval a/c of both A/H and Italy gives one pause > for thought. I'd conclude that logically, large black crosses spanning > both wing and aileron would be about as clear an identifier of FoF as one > could ask for, but the A/H a/c were not so marked. > Regards, Patrick > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Patrick Padovan > Interlibrary Loan Associate > > Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 > 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 > Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Sandy Adam wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Matt: Well, exactly! If the national markings schemes were truly > > > derived on the basis of logic, then (as you said) the schemes of opposing > > > forces within a region should be as much un-alike as possible, rather > > than > > > similar. > > > > Two different things here surely Patrick - camouflage to hide you and > > Insignia to identify you. > > For the first, as you say, you would expect similar schemes over similar > > terrain. > > But for the second you assume you have now been seen and wish to be > > identified as FoF - so you make the markings as different as possible BUT > > you position them where abd how the other pilot will expect to find them. > > If this means inboard of elevators or stripes across wings, for both > > parties - so be it! > > Sandy > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:57:25 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: 160hp Mercedes D.III Message-ID: <34BAD815.9C4@conted.gatech.edu> Bob, OK, I'll take one (is this a late turbo-prop version . . . ?). Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:31:49 +0100 From: Pedro Nuno Soares To: "'ww1 modeling list'" Subject: Going to Liverpool Message-ID: <01BD2074.9B8016C0@fei1-p14.telepac.pt> Hi guys, especially the British Contingent friends Just learned today that Mrs. has to go to Liverpool in early February, = and I'm thinking of taking a couple of days off work to go with her. Any = suggestions as to nice things to see? Hobby shops? Museums? BTW as Head-roadie of the list band I, of course, will find a way to = homage the Beatles on behalf of the list while at Liverpool. e-mail me directly to spare the rest of the guys from off-topic "tourist = talk" Thanks a lot Um abraco Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:55:33 EST From: T HENRYS To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <4eb17dd2.34bbf0ea@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-11 18:05:34 EST, you write: << Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or were you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano is welcome as well. Bob >> Add another guitar to the ensemble, if possible. Todd Henry <> Blues / Jazz guitarist and Fender Patron (2 x Stratocaster , Black & Gunmetal Blue - Yes the American built ones, darn it!, and 1 X 1972 Twin Reverb) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:08:06 -0700 From: Reid Sweatman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: 160hp Mercedes D.III Message-ID: <01BD2045.D1C19940.Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu> On Tuesday, January 13, 1998 12:32 PM, Bob Pearson [SMTP:bpearson@kaien.com] wrote: > > Greetings All, > > I have just completed a computer profile of the 160hp Mercedes D.III engine, > using the old Wylam drawings as a basis. My head hurts when I try to work > out what the present scale is, but when reduced to 16.6% it becomes 1/48 > scale. Anyone wanting a copy, drop me a line, the file size is 112k. > > Regards, > Bob Pearson > I'd like a copy of that, if you wouldn't mind. I have an interest in aircraft engines. Reid Sweatman Programmer/Audio Engineer Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:38:02 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Italian/Austrian markings - was Smer Ansaldo Message-ID: <199801140041.AAA28272@beryl.sol.co.uk> Or am I reading WAY too much into this, and talking complete drivel? > Regards, Patrick Yes Patrick I think you are. There are a few similarities on some aircraft, which is as far as it goes. But there are also many dissimilarities. Some Italian aircraft had one under-wing tip red and the other green instead of applying roundels. Thus the whole undersurface became effectively a tricolore (but with CDL rather than white.) Some Austrian aircraft applied red/white/red stripes on upper- and lower-wing tips so you had in effect four separate flags at the extremity of each wing. Not one big flag. Also these were applied in addition to national markings, whereas the Italian underwing colours were in place of them. Its worth remembering that several French and British aircraft applied red/white/blue stripes to upper and/or lower elevators. Nungesser of course applied them across the wings too. As for the markings being applied inboard of the elevators, this is hardly peculiar to the Austro-Italian front as it was standard practice on a great number of British aircraft, most commonly on SEs. Look at McCudden's plane or the "Zanzibar" FE2b. Come to think of it, it was also standard practice on a great number of American aircraft too. I don't think too many Jennies flew combat missions over the Piave, but you may be able to correct me on that. Also plenty of Italian (and Austrian) aircraft did cover elevators with national markings. As for the sponged/speckled camouflage, out of all the variety of colour schemes applied by the Austrians and Italians two have a slight degree of similarity - but so many do not. And with other types of speckled camoulage on each side which the other did not use. (Autumn Leaf etc). Also other nationalities used speckles (Halberstadt Cl.II). So the stripes are not the same, the positioning is commonplace and the camouflage is not that similar either. No on a matching scale of 1 to 100, I'd say we are in the decimal point area: on the talking drivel scale though..... Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:42:19 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Ray Brooks' -Question Message-ID: <34BC17FB.1543@worldnet.att.net> BStett3770 wrote: > > Hi Gang > > Got a question on Ray Brooks Spad > > His Spad 13 Smith IV has the number 20 on it > > What was the number on Smith 2 ? > What was the number Smith 3 ? > > Also any one have serial numbers on the above two A/c ? > > I have the Muscaino book on Brooks but don't have much else. > I anyone knows of other referance's let me know. > > Hi Barry, A consult of an old Cross & Cockade (USA), Vol. 13, No.4, Winter 1972, with a SPAD serial number list has yielded: Type Serial Unit Mfg Pilot A/C# Comment SPAD 13 7689 22 Aero Kellner A.R. Brooks 20 Smith IV SPAD 13 18815 22 Aero Bleriot A.R. Brooks 0 SPAD 7 7XXX 139 Aero Brooks ? Same Guy? Hope this is useful. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:20:48 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: New Products Message-ID: <34BC3D20.3046@bellsouth.net> Hey guys, especially all you 1/48 builders, I talked on the phone today with Van from Van's Scale Models. He has just released some 1/48 WWI figures that you might be interested in. The first set is "Behind The Lines" and consist of a british pilot exiting his A/C, a german pilot doing the same thing in a different pose, A german gunner wounded and sort of hanging out the plane and german and british infantrymen, 1 each. Sells for $15.95 US + shp The 2nd set is "Red Baron 1918" and consist of 3 Richtoffen figures; 1 standing, 1 seated w/ choice of heads(w/goggles & w/o) and 1 DEAD Richtoffen. Set also includes 3 australian soldiers w/british helmets. Sells for $15.95 US + Shp. These sets can be ordered diresctly from Van's Scale Models 109 W.Travis, Fredericksburg, TX 78624. Ph# 830-990-0484. Also has planned for Feb. Release; Areodrome set w/ figures, tool boxes, paint cans and brushes, A/C dolly and maybe a few other goodies. So. Can anyone tell me how to put some convincing bullet holes in a DML DrI? Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:06:01 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: New Products Message-ID: <199801140516.PAA01957@mimmon.mim.com.au> Ernest, > and 1 DEAD Richtoffen. Ahah ! A *good* Richtoffen. So tell me, hwere are the bullet entrance and exit wounds? ;-) Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:30:03 -0700 From: Mark K Nelson To: wwi Subject: Re: Double Acting Rotary Message-ID: Hello all, ...Some Deleted... >Is this the same engine used on the SS DIII (or D IV I can't remember) and It was both. >also called a "contra rotary engine". If it is my possibly erroneous >understanding is that it was an engine where the cylinders rotated one >direction at about 800 RPM (going entirely by memory here) and the camshaft and propeller. - This also cancelled out some of the torque & gyroscopic effects that rotaries were notorious for. >rotated the other direction at the same speed (as opposed to being fixed as >in a standard rotary). As I remeber reading somewhere this setup gave more >power and was better at driving a four bladed prop than the standard >rotaries. I wouldn't be surprised if the DR-I (V 7/1) fitted with this >engine also carried a four-bladed prop during the trials. > >Apologies again as I am at work and going entirely frommemory but it is >rare that I read a question that I may be able to answer (and don't read >four answers to it at the same time - I run on digest mode). > >James Gibbons _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@v-wave.com ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 845 *********************