WWI Digest 844 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: German Pride and American stupidity by Lee Mensinger 2) Re: German Pride and American stupidity by vedrank@pro1.sjever.fsb.hr (Vedran Kalamiza) 3) Re: German Pride and American stupidity by Kevin Wenker 4) Re: German pride by Lee Mensinger 5) Atrocities by Lee Mensinger 6) Re: Atrocities by fedders 7) Re: Air Classics article by Dave Watts 8) Re: German pride by Alberto Rada 9) Re: German pride by Alberto Rada 10) Re: Atrocities by Bill Bacon 11) Ray Brooks' -Question by BStett3770 12) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by TPT PUMPER 13) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by GRBroman 14) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by Bob Pearson 15) Sikorsky S-16 kit by Joey Valenciano 16) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by "John Glaser" 17) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by KarrArt 18) Albatros CX Appeal by DavidL1217 19) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by Alberto Rada 20) Re: Sikorsky S-16 kit by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 21) Re: Sikorsky S-16 kit by Joey Valenciano 22) Re: Albatros CX Appeal by mbittner@juno.com 23) Re: Sikorsky S-16 kit by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 24) WWI Widows by John & Allison Cyganowski 25) Dr.I powerplant by Dave Watts 26) Re: Dr.I powerplant by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:21:24 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi, "lemen@sat.net" Subject: Re: German Pride and American stupidity Message-ID: <34BA26E3.E411BDF4@sat.net> Ernest Thomas wrote: > mark wrote: > > > >Truth be > > told, there's an awful lot of symbols, many of which have been used > on > > aircraft since 1914, under which a great deal of mans inhumanity to > man has > > been perpetrated. Taking the swastika ban idea to it's logical > conclusion, > > we would have to do away with red stars (for the untold millions > killed by > > Stalin, Mao, and lesser communists), hinomarus (for the rape of > Nanking, > > Bataan death march, etc.), South African roundels (apartheid), > Turkish > > squares (for the Armenian genocide), German eisernkreuze (for the > Belgian > > atrocities), British roundels (for the civilian victims of > starvation during > > the naval blockade of Germany during WWI), and on and on it would > go.... > > > Don't forget U.S. Stars & Bars for the attrocity of Nagasaki. And > quite > a few others from throughout our short but bloody history. > > Ernest. Please Ernest no more of the American atrocity crap. I spent many years in Japan and you need to be looking into the history much more before you condemn the United States. Remember Pearl Harbo. The Bataan Death March. The Rape of Nanking and orther occassions to numerous to mention. Did you know Japan exploded an Atomic Weapon before they surrendered? Do you believe they were doing this out of love and kindness? War is Hell fella. You either win or Die. Before you ever consider an American Atrocity at Nagasaki again please read "Japan's Secret War" by Robert K. Wilcox as well as many other books about Japan in WW 2. You have a lot to learn. Last comment. This site is about WW1 aviation not revisionist propaganda. Not a flame but a simple comment by an American soldier who could have been killed during the Invasion of Japan after fighting and living through the European segment. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:55:29 +0100 From: vedrank@pro1.sjever.fsb.hr (Vedran Kalamiza) To: wwi Subject: Re: German Pride and American stupidity Message-ID: <199801121455.PAA04322@pro7.sjever.fsb.hr> You`re right about everything but Pearl.It was an excellent surprise strike.All those speeches about War declaration are crap.USN,USAAC and US Army were caught with their pants down .I'm not a WW2 revisionist and the current revisionist attempts in my country (Croatia) scare me shitless. Vedran Kalamiza vedrank@sjever.fsb.hr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:54:29 -0600 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: German Pride and American stupidity Message-ID: <34BA2EA5.5D16@interaccess.com> Lee Mensinger wrote: > > Ernest Thomas wrote: > > > mark wrote: > > > > > >Truth be > > > told, there's an awful lot of symbols, many of which have been used > > on > > > aircraft since 1914, under which a great deal of mans inhumanity to > > man has > > > been perpetrated. Taking the swastika ban idea to it's logical > > conclusion, > > > we would have to do away with red stars (for the untold millions > > killed by > > > Stalin, Mao, and lesser communists), hinomarus (for the rape of > > Nanking, > > > Bataan death march, etc.), South African roundels (apartheid), > > Turkish > > > squares (for the Armenian genocide), German eisernkreuze (for the > > Belgian > > > atrocities), British roundels (for the civilian victims of > > starvation during > > > the naval blockade of Germany during WWI), and on and on it would > > go.... > > > > > Don't forget U.S. Stars & Bars for the attrocity of Nagasaki. And > > quite > > a few others from throughout our short but bloody history. > > > > Ernest. > > Please Ernest no more of the American atrocity crap. I spent many years > in Japan and you need to be looking into the history much more before > you condemn the United States. Remember Pearl Harbo. The Bataan Death > March. The Rape of Nanking and orther occassions to numerous to mention. > > Did you know Japan exploded an Atomic Weapon before they surrendered? > Do you believe they were doing this out of love and kindness? War is > Hell fella. You either win or Die. > > Before you ever consider an American Atrocity at Nagasaki again please > read "Japan's Secret War" by Robert K. Wilcox as well as many other > books about Japan in WW 2. You have a lot to learn. > > Last comment. This site is about WW1 aviation not revisionist > propaganda. > > Not a flame but a simple comment by an American soldier who could have > been killed during the Invasion of Japan after fighting and living > through the European segment. > Lee Well said, Lee. How quick some are to condemn an action which saved countless lives - US and Japanese alike. I shudder to consider the price of an invasion of Japan. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:08:53 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34BA3205.A060B5C7@sat.net> Sandy Adam wrote: > Visit Auschwitz or Dachau; look at the pictures, smell the air, then > decide > if you ever want to model a plane with a swastika on it again. > > Sandy Sandy, I was among the very first Americans to enter any of the Death Camps and I can understand what you say. I, personally, have never really learned to hete anyone. Even after they expended so much ammo trying to cause my demise. They even shot at me, alone, with an 88mm AT rifle. Didn't realize how important I was till then. I don't hate the Japanese but I find many of them to be among the cruelist people in the entire world. Right behind the Chinese! Thanks for listening. I am broad minded but not stupid. Lets get back to Airplanes Lee The German people were dupes like many who now go along with the revisionist attitude. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:38:40 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi, "lemen@sat.net" Subject: Atrocities Message-ID: <34BA3900.50CF7E17@sat.net> To the rest of the WW1 Resource List. Please forgive me for a moment of deep concern and a feeling that someone needed to say something in behalf of the Americans who would have died invading that place. For those who do not know the Japanese... They would not have surrendered!!! Millions more would have died. I have experienced to much of the revisionist attitude about Japan and after 7+ years in the Orient and SEA I find it repugnant that Americans arebeing called upon to forgive and forget as if it was all our fault. The Japanese, even now, do not even mention their part of WW2 in their school books. So much for forgivness... I do not believe revisionist propaganda has any place in this list. You may love your enemy if you wish. But it is much more difficult to do after he kills you. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:08:12 -0600 (CST) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Atrocities Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Lee Mensinger wrote: > To the rest of the WW1 Resource List. > > Please forgive me for a moment of deep concern and a feeling that > someone needed to say something in behalf of the Americans who would > have died invading that place. > > For those who do not know the Japanese... They would not have > surrendered!!! Millions more would have died. > > I have experienced to much of the revisionist attitude about Japan and > after 7+ years in the Orient and SEA I find it repugnant that Americans > arebeing called upon to forgive and forget as if it was all our fault. > The Japanese, even now, do not even mention their part of WW2 in their > school books. So much for forgivness... > > I do not believe revisionist propaganda has any place in this list. You > > may love your enemy if you wish. > > But it is much more difficult to do after he kills you. Lee > > > Should the Mexicans forget that we grabbed the best part of their country in a war of aggression? When does it become just history? Could we have blockaded Japan and not invaded it? What is the difference between a hero and a war criminal? Is dropping bombs on civilians better than shooting them? The aswers depend very much on time and views change. In 1918 Americans gladly charged machine guns and in Nahm officers were killed for ordering much less. pfed> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:54:27 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: Air Classics article Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112125427.007cbd30@192.168.0.5> At 12:31 AM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Can anyone help me out with a xerox or what not, on an article that >>appeared in Air Classics Vol.6, Nr.5, June, 1970. From what little I can >>tell, the article discusses either l.M.G. 08/15 Maxim SPANDAU MG's, or >>something about the MG ammo belt being too large to go down the belt chute >>tube. This is what I was talking about in my "article in progress", I >>contend they had to use what is termed a "Parabellum belt". Much appreciated! >>l.M.G. Dave > > Have you checked out the book "Early Aircraft Armament" by Harry >Woodman ? This might be a useful source of material on Spandaus. He is an >excellent writer. > > FWIW I'm looking for a source for this book. Any suggestions ? > >Charles > >hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > > >Thanks Charles, Yes, I have the book, it's a bit general in its' coverage of the SPANDAUs, but nevertheless is a great book. I usually put my reciepts in with my books but had misplaced this one. I also had trouble in locating a copy, and I am sure that I bought the book through Smithsonian Institution Press. I don't have the address, but all you have to do is call the operator, get the area code for Washington D.C., call D.C. information, 1-area code-555-1212, and get the phone number for Smithsonian Institution Press. It worked for me. l.M.G. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:16:14 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980112161614.006eb820@pop.true.net> I'll agree with you that every country has its share of aggression, but there is a distance from that to the sheer and macabre stupidity of Fascism, the cruelty shown in all the conquered countries whether it be Russia , Poland, Belgium, China etc. etc. nor to say the methodic and systematic extermination of a whole race, that by the way, at that moment included some of the brightest minds of our Century, like Freud and Einstein ( both very proud German Citizens till then). So I think its important for the sake of clarity to maintain the distance. How about going back to Braun and Von Ricky ? SALUDOS Alberto At 02:05 AM 12-01-98 -0500, you wrote: >mark wrote: >> >>Truth be >> told, there's an awful lot of symbols, many of which have been used on >> aircraft since 1914, under which a great deal of mans inhumanity to man has >> been perpetrated. Taking the swastika ban idea to it's logical conclusion, >> we would have to do away with red stars (for the untold millions killed by >> Stalin, Mao, and lesser communists), hinomarus (for the rape of Nanking, >> Bataan death march, etc.), South African roundels (apartheid), Turkish >> squares (for the Armenian genocide), German eisernkreuze (for the Belgian >> atrocities), British roundels (for the civilian victims of starvation during >> the naval blockade of Germany during WWI), and on and on it would go.... >> >Don't forget U.S. Stars & Bars for the attrocity of Nagasaki. And quite >a few others from throughout our short but bloody history. > >Ernest. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:35:10 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980112153510.006ea664@pop.true.net> Are you sure this of making Paris their capital city is just a joke ? p.d. How about London Alberto At 12:49 AM 12-01-98 -0500, you wrote: >> Perhaps some "lightening up" has, indeed, occurred. >> >> >> Perhaps they're re-arming? > >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:31:32 -0600 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: Atrocities Message-ID: <34BA99C4.40DF2FA7@netjava.net> Lee et al: As one of the old geezers who was there and, after island hopping (the Marshalls, Saipan, Tinian ans Iwo Jima), was slated to land on Kyushu, HST isd real high on my list of favorites. I, like you Lee, am damned fed up with revisionists who say Japan was ready to quit. To them I say there's hell of a big difference between being ready and quiting. In war that means dead people and enemy dead of any type don't bother me a damned bit. Unfortunately unless you've sen the elephant, you'll never really know of what we speak. Soapbox off Cheers and not meaning to offend anyone, Bill B. Lee Mensinger wrote: > To the rest of the WW1 Resource List. > > Please forgive me for a moment of deep concern and a feeling that > someone needed to say something in behalf of the Americans who would > have died invading that place. > > For those who do not know the Japanese... They would not have > surrendered!!! Millions more would have died. > > I have experienced to much of the revisionist attitude about Japan and > after 7+ years in the Orient and SEA I find it repugnant that Americans > arebeing called upon to forgive and forget as if it was all our fault. > The Japanese, even now, do not even mention their part of WW2 in their > school books. So much for forgivness... > > I do not believe revisionist propaganda has any place in this list. You > > may love your enemy if you wish. > > But it is much more difficult to do after he kills you. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:16:03 EST From: BStett3770 To: wwi Subject: Ray Brooks' -Question Message-ID: <20939f51.34ba9625@aol.com> Hi Gang Got a question on Ray Brooks Spad His Spad 13 Smith IV has the number 20 on it What was the number on Smith 2 ? What was the number Smith 3 ? Also any one have serial numbers on the above two A/c ? I have the Muscaino book on Brooks but don't have much else. I anyone knows of other referance's let me know. Thank's Barry Rosemont hobby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:54:59 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <7c3d318e.34ba9f43@aol.com> Hi Guys! I'll join in with the chorus on the Marco's kits. I have the Albatros, the Pfalz, and the Nieuport 28. All are drool-stained. Good stuff! I can't wait to settle in here in Dallas so I can actually begin construction on one! Highly reccommended. I keep bugging them about their Roland D.VI kit which was due out last spring. The last I heard they were having supplier problems. I need another one or two drool on! Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:02:03 EST From: GRBroman To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-12 02:58:44 EST, you write: << Cool. If he played too fast, did the top rip off? >> Only if he was playing in a dive.... Sorry :) Glen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:57:53 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <23575374140938@KAIEN.COM> Been there, survived it :-) Bob ---------- > From: GRBroman > > << Cool. If he played too fast, did the top rip off? >> > > Only if he was playing in a dive.... > > Sorry :) > > > Glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:04:54 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Sikorsky S-16 kit Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980113080454.0068ce80@philonline.com.ph> Hi all, The following is an exerpt of a calatog someone sent me. A Sikorsky S-16 in 1/48! I've downloaded photos of the model from their site, very nice, I think they include P-etch because the spoked wheels look great. But the price........(in US Dollars, by the way) -=-==-=--=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==- -=-==-=--=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==- *** MASTER-CLUB firm (Moscow) - Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on skis) - 45.00 - Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on wheels) - 75.00 WINNERS OF MOSCOW 1997 MODEL COMPETITION! First of all we would like to inform you that we have new server http://www.aviapress.com. We will be glad your visit. Please find attached our catalog (all prices are in US dollars). Cost of delivery: surface mail - $10, air mail - $15. To order you should send us the list of models you want and delivery method you prefer. You should transfer the amount into our bank account. PAYMENT OPTIONS: You must ask your bank to transfer your remittance to our bank. Such payment must be "free of charge to beneficiary". -------------------------------------------------- Bank of New York One Wall Street, NEW YORK, NY 10286 USA Account N 890-0056-290 (usd) Beneficiary Bank STOLICHNY S.W.I.F.T. STOLRUMM Telex 412086 SBANK SU Account number 0002723696007 Receiver name Elena Pervushina -------------------------------------------------- ATTENTION !!! All this information above about the account is significant and indispensable. Please be attentively filling transfer form in your bank to avoid any missing information. If in your bank's form you need indicate the purpose of the remittance you should indicate "remuneration for model". After you sent requisite money you should send us a message by E-mail (order@aviapress.com) or fax (7-095-435-7155) with date of the transfer. Sincerely, Elena Pervushina Tushino-Aviapress ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:22:28 -0600 From: "John Glaser" To: Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <19980113002210.AAA13444@johng> Another question from the "new guy:" How does one find Marco's? Is there a an address? Phone number? Catalog? TIA - John ---------- > From: TPT PUMPER > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 5:20 PM > > Hi Guys! > > I'll join in with the chorus on the Marco's kits. I have the Albatros, the > Pfalz, and the Nieuport 28. All are drool-stained. Good stuff! I can't wait > to settle in here in Dallas so I can actually begin construction on one! > Highly reccommended. I keep bugging them about their Roland D.VI kit which > was due out last spring. The last I heard they were having supplier problems. > I need another one or two drool on! > > Have Fun!! > > IRA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:25:57 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <8b67612e.34bab497@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-12 00:45:32 EST, you write: >And how do you keep dust away?>> Uh- with great difficulty...seriously, I try to keep on top of the situation and dust the thing with a 1/2" soft paint brush every few days. >Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a dresser, >then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano, You play the piano?>> No- it followed my wife >then the turntable lid (very inconvenient for playing records), You still fiddle with this sort of contraption?>> I still love vinyl AND it doesn't emit that high-pitched annoying headache inducing tone that CDs do! >right now it's precariously >hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. You play bass as well? Guys, he can join the band, he doesn't have to sing.>> not only doesn't- but can't Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:45:09 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Albatros CX Appeal Message-ID: <73f5d922.34bab916@aol.com> Thanks to all responding to my request for photos of the Albatros CX! (My wife says, "CX, CX,CX, that is all you ever talk about.) The interior shots are most useful. The Skybirds model gives you the flooring, frame, seats, fuel tank, accuate dashboard and stick but there are alot of bits left out like the start magneto, fuel pump and claw brake lever. If there are any more photos known, I would appreciate it. It's amazing, there were over 300 of these made and only 10 or so photos are ever published. And the Germans allowed their personnel to have cameras! (The English did not.) Thanks all, David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:17:41 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980112211741.0072217c@pop.true.net> Hi John Marco's is Four Star Collectibles P.O. Box 658 Dracut, MA 01826 Tel 603 7639 Web site http://pages.prodigy.com/4star Saludos Alberto At 07:26 PM 12-01-98 -0500, you wrote: >Another question from the "new guy:" > >How does one find Marco's? Is there a an address? Phone number? Catalog? > >TIA > >- John > >---------- >> From: TPT PUMPER >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? >> Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 5:20 PM >> >> Hi Guys! >> >> I'll join in with the chorus on the Marco's kits. I have the >Albatros, the >> Pfalz, and the Nieuport 28. All are drool-stained. Good stuff! I can't >wait >> to settle in here in Dallas so I can actually begin construction on one! >> Highly reccommended. I keep bugging them about their Roland D.VI kit >which >> was due out last spring. The last I heard they were having supplier >problems. >> I need another one or two drool on! >> >> Have Fun!! >> >> IRA > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:53:32 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Sikorsky S-16 kit Message-ID: <34BAC91C.454E@ricochet.net> > *** MASTER-CLUB firm (Moscow) > - Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on skis) - 45.00 > - Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on wheels) - 75.00 > WINNERS OF MOSCOW 1997 MODEL COMPETITION! OUCH! Thanks, Joey, but this sort of news always makes me sad. I thought labor was cheaper in Eastern Europe! Russians sure won't be able to afford it. As somone at a local IPMS meeting heckled the MSRP of a limited-run resin release "The real one probably didn't cost that much!" ;-) I guess I'll have to wait for the Smer reissue. - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:22:19 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Sikorsky S-16 kit Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980113102219.006b55f4@philonline.com.ph> At 08:59 PM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >> *** MASTER-CLUB firm (Moscow) >> - Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on skis) - 45.00 >> - Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on wheels) - 75.00 >> WINNERS OF MOSCOW 1997 MODEL COMPETITION! > > >OUCH! Thanks, Joey, but this sort of news always makes me sad. Yea, sure wish we could fix the price with an orbital sander, right? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:19:46 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros CX Appeal Message-ID: <19980112.203125.18614.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:06:18 -0500 DavidL1217 writes: > The interior shots are most useful. The Skybirds model gives > you the flooring, frame, seats, fuel tank, accuate dashboard and > stick but there are alot of bits left out like the start > magneto, fuel pump and claw brake lever. If you plan on making drawings or anything, are you planning on publishing them? I have the Xtravac C.X, and I have been waiting for almost everything before starting it. (Psst. Did you know Richtofen flew an all red C.X? ) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:39:45 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Sikorsky S-16 kit Message-ID: <199801130239.AA07804@ednet1.orednet.org> Joey writes: >Hi all, > >The following is an exerpt of a calatog someone sent me. A Sikorsky S-16 in >1/48! I've downloaded photos of the model from their site, very nice, I >think they include P-etch because the spoked wheels look great. But the >price........(in US Dollars, by the way) >*** MASTER-CLUB firm (Moscow) >- Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on skis) - 45.00 >- Sikorsky S-XVI 1/48 (WW1 biplane on wheels) - 75.00 >WINNERS OF MOSCOW 1997 MODEL COMPETITION! Thirty bucks seems a little steep for a set of wheels, photo-etched or not. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:52:53 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: WWI Widows Message-ID: <34BAE515.2FE8@worldnet.att.net> John and David, My own "WWI Widow" got a big kick out of hearing about the trials a tribulations of yours. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:15:36 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Dr.I powerplant Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112231536.007cc180@192.168.0.5> Observations of Dr.Is on Fokker/army acceptance sheets for April 1918, taken exactly as it appears. April Dat Milit. Bez. Nr. Fabr. Nr. Motor Nr. type 6 Dr.I 564 2234 2497 110 Rh Dr.I 443 2068 2861 110 Rh 17 Dr.I 522 2190 2890 110 Le Rh Dr.I 422 2006 13 100 Loevo (?) 22 Dr.I 538 2206 2881 110 Rh Dr.I 451 2076 19 100 Goevo (?) 23 Dr.I 427 2011 11 100 Lvevo (?) 24 Dr.I 562 2232 1072 130 Cl. Dr.I 571 2241 2795 110 Rh. Dr.I 423 2007 10 100 Lvevo (?) Dr.I 485 2111 953 130 Cl Dr.I 527 2195 1503 130 Cl 26 Dr.I -100/18. 1830 1900 160 gnoma It lists in the summary total, "D.RI=12", "DRI Gnom=1" I have to apologize for the interpetation of the 100 hp. motor, the handwriting is so poor, I can't make it out. I know there is the Goebel Goe motor, maybe that's what these are. Here are the things I found interesting, (you can follow the motor Nr.s to see shared production Nr. ranges), Fokker was installing 110 Le Rhones, 130 Clergets, 100 Goebels (?), and at least a 160 Gnome, (in aircraft 100/18?). What is "100/18", anyone seen this one. It makes me wonder if some of these are captured, and the fact that the army was supplying them to Fokker. Also this may dispell the assupmption that these motors were switched out at the front by mechanics. l.M.G. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:37:55 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Dr.I powerplant Message-ID: <199801130637.AA03345@ednet1.orednet.org> Dave writes: > >Observations of Dr.Is on Fokker/army acceptance sheets for April 1918, >taken exactly as it appears. >April >Dat Milit. Bez. Nr. Fabr. Nr. Motor Nr. type -snips- >26 Dr.I -100/18. 1830 1900 160 gnoma > >It lists in the summary total, "D.RI=12", "DRI Gnom=1" > Here are the things I found interesting, (you can follow the motor Nr.s >to see shared production Nr. ranges), Fokker was installing 110 Le Rhones, >130 Clergets, 100 Goebels (?), and at least a 160 Gnome, (in aircraft >100/18?). > What is "100/18", anyone seen this one. My reference("Triplanes", by Bowers and McDonald) indicates that triplane Fabr. Nr. 1830 was the second V.7 Fokker tripe. The four V.7's were essentially Dr.I's with a lengthened fuselage (to compensate for the heavier engines used on these) and a larger cowling (to accommodate the bigger engines). Bowers and McDonald state it is unknown whether the 160 hp Gnome referred to is a 160 hp Gnome as used in the Nieuport 28 and taken off a captured aircraft or the twin row Oberusal Ur.III engine or the twin row Gnome copy previously used in the Fokker E.IV and D.III. They state that the Oberusal copies of the Gnome engine were often referred to as Gnome in official German documents so it remains uncertain as to exactly which engine was being referred to. I've not seen the serial number 100/18 associated with this aircraft but it remains possible, I suppose. V.7/I, incidently, was originally powered with the Siemens Halske Sh.III "double-acting" rotary engine and was the aircraft entered in the January, 1918 fighter competition. Later re-engined with an Oberusal rotary, it was assigned Dr.I serial number 120/17. V.7/III was powered by the Goebel Goe.III engine. Again, later re-engined with a standard Oberusal, it was assigned Dr.I serial 599/17. V.7/IV was shipped without an engine to MAG were it was fitted with a 147 hp Steyr rotary engine and assigned Austro-Hungarian serial number 90.03. > It makes me wonder if some of these are captured, and the fact that the >army was supplying them to Fokker. No doubt _some_ captured engines were used on _some_ triplanes although whether that was the case with Fabr. Nr. 1830 remains unknown - apparently an Oberursal copy of one of the Gnome engines remains equally likely. What, incidently, is a "double-acting" rotary engine? Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 844 *********************