WWI Digest 843 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Air Classics article by Charles Hart 2) Re: Fok. Dr.I 425/18 by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 3) Re: German pride by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 4) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by Ernest Thomas 5) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by Joey Valenciano 6) Re: Air Classics article by Dave Watts 7) Re: German pride by Ernest Thomas 8) Re: RFC and Martinsyde Info wanted by Charles Hart 9) Re: Fokker Dr.I 477/18 by Dave Watts 10) Re: Fok. Dr.I 425/18 by Dave Watts 11) Re: German pride by lothar@televar.com (mark) 12) Rediscovered treasures by huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) 13) Re: German pride by Ernest Thomas 14) Re: Rediscovered treasures by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 15) Re: German pride by KarrArt 16) RE: Marco miniatures kits? by Reid Sweatman 17) RE: Marco miniatures kits? by Reid Sweatman 18) RE: German pride by Reid Sweatman 19) Woodman, Early Armamament by Joey Valenciano 20) Re: Camo. vs. Nat. Marks. by "Sandy Adam" 21) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by "Sandy Adam" 22) Re: Albatros CX by Graham Nash 23) Re: German pride by "Sandy Adam" 24) The RAF In Camera 1903-1939 by Roy Conyers Nesbitt by Graham Nash 25) Re: Rediscovered treasures by mbittner@juno.com 26) Re: Albatros CX by John & Allison Cyganowski 27) Re: Rediscovered treasures by John & Allison Cyganowski ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:31:39 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Air Classics article Message-ID: >Can anyone help me out with a xerox or what not, on an article that >appeared in Air Classics Vol.6, Nr.5, June, 1970. From what little I can >tell, the article discusses either l.M.G. 08/15 Maxim SPANDAU MG's, or >something about the MG ammo belt being too large to go down the belt chute >tube. This is what I was talking about in my "article in progress", I >contend they had to use what is termed a "Parabellum belt". Much appreciated! >l.M.G. Dave Have you checked out the book "Early Aircraft Armament" by Harry Woodman ? This might be a useful source of material on Spandaus. He is an excellent writer. FWIW I'm looking for a source for this book. Any suggestions ? Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:24:47 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fok. Dr.I 425/18 Message-ID: <199801120524.AA19713@ednet1.orednet.org> > >I found it interesting when I cheked out photos of Fok. Dr.I 425/18, that >when normally depicted in art form, such as for a cover, just in general, >even as models or full scale replicas, they often have it all red with >patee crosses, with the rudder being all white, (which it was'nt, as far as >I can tell the rudder became all white when the crosses later were changed >to balken). Nice little note or spot in Imrie's triplane book, the photo >that shows 425/18 freshly painted all red, it lacks the wing leading edge >rest caps. And thus that photo is probably, according to Peter Grosz and Ray Rimell, at least, 477/17 and not 425/17. (note "17", not "18" - the last triplane delivered was 599/17 - there were no triplanes with "slash 18" serials, I'm pretty sure.) Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:31:55 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <199801120531.AA24452@ednet1.orednet.org> > >In a message dated 98-01-11 23:05:21 EST, you write: > ><< Dunno, I've got photos of both the Me-262 and Me-163 as currently > on display in the Deutsches Museum and they both clearly > display swastikas. So it's gotta be something less than > "absolutely Verboten". >> >Perhaps there has been a "lightening up". For years all the pics I saw of >these birds showed no swastikas. >Robert Well, now that you mention it, there is a photo of the same Me-262 ("white 3") sans swastika in the same book. But the photo of the Me-262 mitt swastika on the tail is captioned as the current paint job of the aircraft. Perhaps some "lightening up" has, indeed, occurred. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:39:04 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <34B9AC78.3913@bellsouth.net> KarrArt wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-11 18:48:52 EST, you write: > > << Welcome to the list band. we now have (I believe) > > > > Baritone vocalist > > Bagpipes > > Sitar > > Guitar > > Bass > > drums > > percussion > > Trumpet > > Tuba > > Manager > > Roadies > > > > Bo >> > And the Count Basie Orchestra on triangle > Robert Does the band have a name or anything?Something besides "The List Band". IF not, I've always thought "Jasta #(insert your fav. unit # here) would be a cool name for a band, even before I was hired for this one. Either that or "Free Beer-No Cover" E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:42:05 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980112084205.006f9754@philonline.com.ph> Hi Robert, ><< Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha? And how do you keep dust away? >Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a dresser, >then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano, You play the piano? >then the turntable lid (very inconvenient for playing records), You still fiddle with this sort of contraption? >right now it's precariously >hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. You play bass as well? Guys, he can join the band, he doesn't have to sing. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:33:06 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: Air Classics article Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112003306.007dc530@192.168.0.5> At 12:16 AM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > The article in question was by Col.G.B. Jarrett. >14 pages of simplified history that we've all learned by heart accompanied by >photos we've all seen a dozen time. There IS a short discussion about >disintegrating links versus web belts that includes some info about the >different size spacers sewn into different belts. >Robert > >Hey you know, the info on the different sized spacers is what I may be after, if you could get that off to me sometime, it would be appreciated. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:42:57 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B9AD61.5000@bellsouth.net> > Perhaps some "lightening up" has, indeed, occurred. > > > Perhaps they're re-arming? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:53:18 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: RFC and Martinsyde Info wanted Message-ID: On 1 Dec. 1997, Chris Banyai-Riepl inquired: >Hello, >I have a little research topic that I've been working on, and have come up >against some pretty big walls. Maybe someone here can help. I want to know >everything about the Martinsyde G.100. Where it was built, who the factory >workers were, how it was painted, how and when did they go to France, the >history of this plane in No. 27 Squadron in France, and anything else >relating to Aircraft No.7481. Also, I want to know anything and everything >about a Sgt.. Herbert Bellersby, who flew a G.100 for No. 27 Squadron. I >know that he volunteered for the RFC in 1915 and was educated at Bancrofts >School, Woodford Green. I'm looking for information on RFC training in >1915; where it was carried out, what it consisted of, who was instructing, >any information about Bellerby's class, etc. Bellerby's big distinction is >that he was the second victory of Richthofen on Sept. 23, 1916. If you can >be of any help, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! > Cross & Cockade International v.28 #4 features a photo on page 224 of Martinsyde Elephant 7481 crash landed after being shot down by MvR. Fusleage is painted with dark dope, presumably PC 10. Upper wing surfaces appear to have the same finish. Vertical fin is light colored, presumably clear doped linen with factory applied serial, 7481, in large digits. Metal nose panels on fuselage appear to be POV (known as "battleship grey" to some). Hope this helps. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:50:09 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker Dr.I 477/18 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112005009.007daa60@192.168.0.5> At 12:22 AM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Dave writes: >> >> I've got a buddy, Herman Cholewinski, who is building a R.C. 1/3 scale >>Fok. Dr.I. He wants to build it all red, so as to make it a real eye >>catcher at the contests, etc. He was hoping not to make it 425/18, but >>needs photos for his judging information. Upon reviewing Imrie's triplane >>book, we found on page 63 (?), (I loaned him my book, so I can't be >>positive), Dr.I 477/18, the caption says something like, the top of the >>wings, aft fuselage, and wheels have been overpainted all red. > >That is the caption for Dr.I 152/17, not 477/17. > > >>This leaves >>the bottom of the wings and fuse, all light blue. What he wanted to know >>was if there are any photos of the plane either in factory fresh colors, >>(he plans to paint it that way, then overpaint it red, and follow the cross >>directorates, just as they would've in real life), or later operational >>service photos depicting it in all red, if indeed it became all red!?, (or >>even a photo of it, as earlier mentioned, since the serial number is not >>really visible, and is a estimate by Imrie). > >Depends on whether we are talking about 152/17 or 477/17, > >The factory finish for 152/17 was likely the standard streaked Fokker >olive over CDL topsides and turquoise or blue under surfaces. >As used by MvR, the wing upper surfaces, struts, aft fuselage >and tail surfaces (including the rudder, incidently) were >overpainted red. Likely the cowling was as well but that's >not a "fer sure". The white rectangles around the national >insignia were overpainted in red leaving only a thin white >outline arround the Eisenkruz (sp?) but the white areas >remain visable as noticably lighter in tone than the remainder >of the upper wing surfaces. > >The remainder of the fuselage, forward of the national insignia >is standard streaked olive over CDL. > >(Photo no. 93 on page 65 of the Imrie book, photo on page > 6 of Spring 1988 Windsock.)(I'm suspicious about the >supposed photo of 152/17 on page 18 of the Triplane >"In Action" Squadron/Signal book - I'm not sure that really >is 152/17 - but who knows fer sure.) > >Dr. I 477/17 was overall red - including the undersurfaces apparently. >Rimell speculates that this a/c was returned to the Fokker >factory for recovering in _silk_ and, as it was specifically >intended for MvR, it left the factory doped in overall red and >thus the red _was_ the factory finish. > >Although Imrie identifies photo 94 on page 65 of his book as >425/17, I believe this is an error (for a number of reasons) >and this photo actually depicts 477/17. Rimell uses this >same photo on page 9 of Spring 1988 Windsock and ID's it >as 477/17 as well. A 3/4 left rear view of this aircraft >is on page 8 of that same issue of Windsock. > >The "real" 425/17 is shown on page 80 of Imrie's book (same >photo on page 8 of the Spring '88 Windsock.) > >>l.M.G. Dave >> >>PS.In reviewing some of my papers, I see I got a sketch from Dan Abbott on >>machine gun pads, and I saw that he mentions for his sketch he used photos >>of 477/18 that appeared in >> Cross & Cockade of Great Britain, Vol. 7, No.2 back cover, and >> Windsock International, Vol.4, No.1, Spring 1988 >>I don't have either of these. Any help appreciated. > >I've got the Spring '88 Windsock - the data therein is pretty >much as outlined above. Hope this helps a bit. > >Cheers and all, > > >-- > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > >"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." > >Thanks Bill, I'll get your info to him. I'll have to look at my books before I can say anything more. It gets confusing with several books showing the same plane, but calling it by different Nr.s. Normally you think the most recently published book is right, but I guess not so. That's part of the game though. By the way, what did you quote as a reference for a photo labelled or identified as 477/18 all red, in print for him to use for judging paperwork, (Spring 88 Windsock)? Thanks Again, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:21:59 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: Fok. Dr.I 425/18 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112012159.007da330@192.168.0.5> At 12:32 AM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >> >>I found it interesting when I cheked out photos of Fok. Dr.I 425/18, that >>when normally depicted in art form, such as for a cover, just in general, >>even as models or full scale replicas, they often have it all red with >>patee crosses, with the rudder being all white, (which it was'nt, as far as >>I can tell the rudder became all white when the crosses later were changed >>to balken). Nice little note or spot in Imrie's triplane book, the photo >>that shows 425/18 freshly painted all red, it lacks the wing leading edge >>rest caps. > >And thus that photo is probably, according to Peter Grosz and Ray Rimell, >at least, 477/17 and not 425/17. (note "17", not "18" - the last >triplane delivered was 599/17 - there were no triplanes with >"slash 18" serials, I'm pretty sure.) > Your exactly right on that "/17", a while back I was doing some heavy duty studying on the first Fok. D.VII's on the army acceptance sheets, and had put in my brain seeing Dr.I's being accepted in 1918, but the Bestell (serial) Nr.'s were assigned by the army, when they wrote up the contract with Fokker, and assigned him a block of serial numbers. So your right, all Dr.I's would have "/17", even though they may have been made, and/or accepted in 1918. The brain is sometimes, a dangerous friend to trust. Best Wishes, Dave cheers and all, > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > >"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:42:42 -0800 (PST) From: lothar@televar.com (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <199801120642.WAA18920@concord.televar.com> Ernest sayeth: >When we demonize a curious arrangment of right angles to the point of >prosecution, we've become that which we are trying to protect ourselves >from. > Well put. Though I can certainly agree with the swastika ban within Germany itself, one wonders if things have run amuck when this idea - certainly understandable in Germany - gets extended to the rest of the world. Truth be told, there's an awful lot of symbols, many of which have been used on aircraft since 1914, under which a great deal of mans inhumanity to man has been perpetrated. Taking the swastika ban idea to it's logical conclusion, we would have to do away with red stars (for the untold millions killed by Stalin, Mao, and lesser communists), hinomarus (for the rape of Nanking, Bataan death march, etc.), South African roundels (apartheid), Turkish squares (for the Armenian genocide), German eisernkreuze (for the Belgian atrocities), British roundels (for the civilian victims of starvation during the naval blockade of Germany during WWI), and on and on it would go.... The neo-Nazis and Hitler wannabes - whether in Germany or Hayden Lake, Idaho - will never forget what the swastika means. If the ***rest*** of us forget, that's when we'll all be in big trouble... Soapbox mode off.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:50:01 -0600 (CST) From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) To: wwi Subject: Rediscovered treasures Message-ID: I opened a box of models I bought a number of years ago and had forgotten about. In the box were some vac-u-form kits of WWI subjects. If any of you have done any thing with these other than purchase them, I would like to know if there are any problems to be overcome. The kits are: Phoenix 1. Caudron G.IVA.2 2. Airco DH6 3. Airco DH1 & 1A 4. Port Victoria PV.2.BIS 5. RAF BE2A 6. Mitsubishi 1MF1 These are all female mold kits with very good surface details, white metal parts (engine, guns, props, etc.) and decals. The one thing I noticed was the absence of the wing and tail lower surfaces. Blue Rider 1. Nieuport Nightjar Naval Fighter This is also a female molded kit similar to the above. White metal parts w/PE brass for struts and seat. It also lacks the lower wing surfaces. Formaplane 1. BE2C 2. BE2C,D,E,F & BE12,12AE Female mold with acceptable surface detail. No decals, white metal prop & wheels in the 2C kit. Exploded view type instructions w/separate page of text instructions. Again, no wing lower surfaces. 3. Albatros BII 4. Albatros DXI 5. HB W12 These are all male mold types with little to no surface details. What is there is overdone and will have to be filled and re scribed. Again no decals. Minimal white metal parts and exploded view instructions w/text on separate page. No lower wing surfaces. My WWI kit projects have all been injection molded or resin kits so far. The other Vac kits I have built have had both wing surfaces, so this is a new twist to my 40 plus years of building. Was the lower surface not included because of the scale thickness of the wings for scale representation, or should they be added from sheet plastic. If you were going to build any of these, would you use sheet stock for the lower surfaces? Would it have any airfoil shape or be flat? Would you bother to try and emboss or add any type of rib details. All I have to do now is find the time to build these. Added to the kits in various closets and other storage areas, I can now add the start of another lifetime needed to complete them all. My wife still can't understand why I want to stop at any hobby shop we should come across.. She says my inventory is already at least double theirs, what could thy possibly have that I don't have. Some day she will see the light and understand. Maybe I should start asking her why she needs more yarn, I still don't have the sweater she started 11 years ago when we got married. Thanks in advance for your time. John Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:58:56 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B9BF30.3D4@bellsouth.net> mark wrote: > >Truth be > told, there's an awful lot of symbols, many of which have been used on > aircraft since 1914, under which a great deal of mans inhumanity to man has > been perpetrated. Taking the swastika ban idea to it's logical conclusion, > we would have to do away with red stars (for the untold millions killed by > Stalin, Mao, and lesser communists), hinomarus (for the rape of Nanking, > Bataan death march, etc.), South African roundels (apartheid), Turkish > squares (for the Armenian genocide), German eisernkreuze (for the Belgian > atrocities), British roundels (for the civilian victims of starvation during > the naval blockade of Germany during WWI), and on and on it would go.... > Don't forget U.S. Stars & Bars for the attrocity of Nagasaki. And quite a few others from throughout our short but bloody history. Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:01:14 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Rediscovered treasures Message-ID: <34B9BFBA.2639@ricochet.net> John Huggins wrote: > > 3. Albatros BII If you ever feel you could part with this one, let me know. Riordan -- --------------------------------------- This e-mail has been brought to you by - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:37:04 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <451bf151.34b9c822@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-12 01:47:16 EST, you write: << The neo-Nazis and Hitler wannabes - whether in Germany or Hayden Lake, Idaho - will never forget what the swastika means. If the ***rest*** of us forget, that's when we'll all be in big trouble... Soapbox mode off.... Mark >> Damn right.... The old cliche about those who forget the past being condemned to repeat it seems apt. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:44:46 -0700 From: Reid Sweatman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <01BD1EF3.EB9775E0.Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu> On Sunday, January 11, 1998 4:26 PM, Bob Pearson [SMTP:bpearson@kaien.com] wrote: > > E. > > Welcome to the list band. we now have (I believe) > > Baritone vocalist > Bagpipes > Sitar > Guitar > Bass > drums > percussion > Trumpet > Tuba > Manager > Roadies > > Bob (Black Les Paul Custom and sky blue Strat user) > Well, you've got a keyboard player, too . Right behind me as I type is my Kurzweil K250 and one of my MemoryMoogs. The others are downstairs. Reid Sweatman Programmer/Audio Engineer Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:48:12 -0700 From: Reid Sweatman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <01BD1EF3.F68F13E0.Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu> On Sunday, January 11, 1998 4:43 PM, KarrArt [SMTP:KarrArt@aol.com] wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-11 18:05:34 EST, you write: > > << Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or were > you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano is > welcome as well. > > Bob > >> > Gibson EB-O bass, Les Paul Jr(SG shape), SG, '68 Fender Bassman amp,'63 Fender > Super Reverb amp.To make it somehow relevant, I once refinished a guy's > Firebird bass copy in lozenge- top colors on the front, bottem colors on the > back, light blue rib tape colored edging.Half-size polygons.Tinted yellowy- > brown lacquer to simulate dope! > Robert > Cool. If he played too fast, did the top rip off? Reid Sweatman Programmer/Audio Engineer Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:53:37 -0700 From: Reid Sweatman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: German pride Message-ID: <01BD1EF4.84B43CE0.Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu> On Sunday, January 11, 1998 3:24 PM, KarrArt [SMTP:KarrArt@aol.com] wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-11 02:16:13 EST, you write: > > << models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika > decals so they could be sent over for the european market. >> > > It's gotten so stupid that some FINNISH (as in Finland) decals have the > swastikas sliced in two so they can be marketed in facsist places that don't > allow freedom of expression.Several years ago there was a small story in our > newspaper about the trouble that a group of Navajo Indians were having selling > items they'ed made that contained swastikas- a sun symbol in many different > cultures around the world. > Robert > Unfortunately, as any student of semiotics will tell you , a symbol's meaning isn't an intrinsic property of the symbol, but of it's context and the mindset of the person viewing it. But luckily for us modelers, stencils are easy to make . Reid Sweatman Programmer/Audio Engineer Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:41:16 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Woodman, Early Armamament Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980112164116.006b2248@philonline.com.ph> Hi guys, found this who wants to pursue? 1. Woodman,H. Early Aircraft Armament.The Aeroplane & the Gun up to 1918 1st ed.8vo.254pp.Maroon cloth,dw. Arms & Armour Press, London, 1989 Book# 4 =A320.00 (approx 32.65 American Dollars). Please contact David M Shaw for more information about purchasing this book.=20 David M Shaw , 31 Newlands Drive, Lowton , Warrington , Great Britain , WA3 2RJ=20 Phone 01942 726319 / Fax 09142 726319 , Email shaw@bookmaps.u-net.com ... A member of PBFA ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,=20 joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist=20 tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:04:18 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Camo. vs. Nat. Marks. Message-ID: <199801120845.IAA23507@beryl.sol.co.uk> I drove through the Brenner pass last summer and was interested in the terrain (apart from the mountains), much of which I recognised from the FMP A-H books' photographs! Point is that that particular section of country is still Italian/German bilingual and the locals would probably have had difficulty in 1917 in agreeing which nationality they actually belonged to. Perhaps the same ethnic groupings and ways of thinking on either side of the divide could be expected to produce similar answers to the same problem of camouflage? Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:09:43 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <199801120845.IAA23512@beryl.sol.co.uk> Aeroclub in Nottingham still have some of the Tom's 1/32 vacs last time I saw them. I seem to remeber they were on sale too. Think they had Alb D.III, Pfalz D.III and D.IIIa, if anybody's interested. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:06:20 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros CX Message-ID: <199801120906.AA17395@egate2.citicorp.com> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:27:22 -0500 DavidL1217 > writes: > > > I am beginning to work on the Skybirds Albatros CX. > > Unfortunaltely, there is a derth of photos for this aircraft. > > Here's what I show for the C.X: > > Scale Models, Jan 1980 (w/1/72nd scale drawings) > Windsock, Vol 5 No ; Vol 8 No 6 has detail and cockpit photo's; > Vol 13 No 1 has a review of the Skybirds kit. > WW1 Aero, No 109 has Cockpits/Instruments > > HTH > > Matt Bittner In addition C&C UK Vol 13 No 3 apparantly has colour details as does The World Encyclopedia of Military Aircraft by Enzo Angelucci,although I think most list members will be dubious about the accuracy of the latter reference. For non-German service try w Lotnictwie Polskim Samoloty Konstrukcji 1918-1939 Vol 6, which also has some colour details. As remarked, very little available on this bird. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:14:03 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <199801121022.KAA25838@beryl.sol.co.uk> Visit Auschwitz or Dachau; look at the pictures, smell the air, then decide if you ever want to model a plane with a swastika on it again. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:40:02 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: The RAF In Camera 1903-1939 by Roy Conyers Nesbitt Message-ID: <199801121040.AA19653@egate2.citicorp.com> This is appearing in a number of remaindered bookshops in London in the GBP8-GBP10 price bracket for a hard-backed book (published price GBP18.99) It contains 96 pages of WWI and prior, airwar-related pictures from the Public Records Office and Ministry of Defence Archives, plus another 80 pages of 1919 to 1939, but mostly 'silver wings' a/c including DH9's and Biffs in post-war pictures. The book is part of a series which includes RAF 1939 to ? and a Fleet Air Arm series which includes some RNAS shots. I've not yet seen the latter volumes discounted by as much as the 03/39 volume. Also seen are the P.Kilduff volumes of 'Beyond the Legend of the Red Knight' in paper back and 'Over the Battlefronts-Amazing Air Action of World War One' in the sub GBP10 range, as well as the non-recommended 'von Richtofen-The Legend Evaluated' by Richard Townsend Bickers. Two full price (about GBP30) copies (new) of Chaz Bowyers' 'Handley Page Bombers of the First World War' have also been located for anyone desparate (and rich). Also seen, one copy of 'Five years in the RFC' by McCudden GBP4.00 If anyone wants me to pick up anything let me know. US residents can pay me in US$ rather than pay Exchange Commissions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:05:23 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Rediscovered treasures Message-ID: <19980112.051415.14278.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:53:41 -0500 huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) writes: > I opened a box of models I bought a number of years ago and had > forgotten about. In the box were some vac-u-form kits of WWI > subjects. If any of you have done any thing with these other > than purchase them, I would like to know if there are any > problems to be overcome. Great list of kits! A few that are needed to be redone by others, especially the B.II. > The kits are: Phoenix I have built the Phoenix Otto Doppeldecker. A great kit, with not a lot of vac parts. I had no problems what-so-ever with this - except lining up the booms. And rigging. Man, what a pain. > Blue Rider I have also built one of their OEF Albatros D.III conversions. Again, great kits. > Formaplane I started sanding out their Halberstadt Cl.II. There is a lot of work with Formaplane kits. Since the "ribs" were in the wrong spot, as well as a lot of air holes, there is a lot of putty on the Cl.II. Formaplane's require - of your list - the most prep work. > My WWI kit projects have all been injection molded or resin kits > so far. The other Vac kits I have built have had both wing > surfaces, so this is a new twist to my 40 plus years of > building. Was the lower surface not included because of the > scale thickness of the wings for scale representation, or should > they be added from sheet plastic. Just a different level of modeling, that's all. There is nothing to be afraid of building vacs. The worst part is getting all the parts sanded out. Once that is accomplished, then construction follows as with any other kit. > If you were going to build any of these, would you use sheet > stock for the lower surfaces? Would it have any airfoil shape > or be flat? Would you bother to try and emboss or add any type > of rib details. No, I would not use sheet stock for the lower surfaces. Most "older" injected and resin kits' wings are way too thick. The WW1 wing tended to be super thin; the best way to model this in 1/72nd is with a vac molding. I wouldn't worry about adding ribs underneath. Since the bottoms tended to be flat anyway, why go to the trouble? > All I have to do now is find the time to build these. Added to > the kits in various closets and other storage areas, I can now > add the start of another lifetime needed to complete them all. > My wife still can't understand why I want to stop at any hobby > shop we should come across.. She says my inventory is already at > least double theirs, what could thy possibly have that I don't > have. Some day she will see the light and understand. Maybe I > should start asking her why she needs more yarn, I still don't > have the sweater she started 11 years ago when we got married. Might I make a suggestion and say not to ask her about that sweater? At least she's only complaining when you buy more, and not stopping you. Best to let sleeping dogs lie. :-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:06:04 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros CX Message-ID: <34BA072C.5BBD@worldnet.att.net> I believe High in the Empty Blue has a picture of one, but I am not sure if it has a splotch pattern. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:18:50 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Rediscovered treasures Message-ID: <34BA0A2A.7F23@worldnet.att.net> John Huggins wrote: > Maybe I should start asking her why she needs more yarn, I > still don't have the sweater she started 11 years ago when we got married. > You could ask, but I wouldn't. John Cyg. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 843 *********************