WWI Digest 842

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
  2) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
  3) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
  4) Re: German pride
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  5) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
  6) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
  7) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  8) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
  9) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
 10) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 11) 1/32 scale
	by Joey Valenciano <joeyval@philonline.com.ph>
 12) Re: 1/32 scale
	by Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
 13) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by Alberto Rada <rada@true.NET>
 14) Re: 1/32 scale
	by BStett3770 <BStett3770@aol.com>
 15) Re: German pride
	by "Alexandre " <atcampos@nutecnet.com.br>
 16) Re: German pride
	by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
 17) Albatros CX
	by DavidL1217 <DavidL1217@aol.com>
 18) Re: Albatros CX
	by Charles Hart <hartc@spot.colorado.edu>
 19) Re: Albatros CX
	by mbittner@juno.com
 20) Air Classics article
	by Dave Watts <davew@wattstrainshop.com>
 21) Re: German pride
	by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
 22) Fokker Dr.I 477/18
	by Dave Watts <davew@wattstrainshop.com>
 23) Fok. Dr.I 425/18
	by Dave Watts <davew@wattstrainshop.com>
 24) Re: Air Classics article
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
 25) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
 26) Re: Fokker Dr.I 477/18
	by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
 27) Re: German pride
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
 28) Re: Marco miniatures kits?
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:35:13 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft
Message-ID: <f81f0be8.34b94921@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-10 06:39:56 EST, you write:

<<    There is a newly released Fokker D.VII, but it has major shape problems,
 especially with the top wing.  It appears to have been designed in the same
 era as the other kits.
 
 Yours,
 James D. Gray
  >>
It's worth getting, the wing problem is easy to fix.There's been some
complaints about the side view, but personally I don't think it's too
terrible. My major headache was fixing the TOP view outline. It's noticably
too wide towards the rear- not enough taper and this DOES affect the look of
the entire fuselage when seen from any angle. This also means the horizontal
stab needs fixing. But I repeat- this kit is still worth the fuss and bother
if you happen to like the D V II.
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:35:12 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <c27d5c68.34b94922@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-10 21:18:29 EST, you write:

<< Has anyone seen these kits?  >>

I've got the 1/24 Pfalz D III. I haven't built it yet, but I open the box
quite often and drool. It LOOKS great.
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:47:18 -0800
From: Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
To: WW1 Mailing list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <22471894537771@KAIEN.COM>


Greetings all,

I ran into the owner of Marco's Miniatures at Rhinebeck in '96 and he
mentioned that he is planning a 1/24 Sopwith Triplane. At the time he had
just completed the Roland D.VI master and was showing off the photos of it -
they looked pretty good.

regards,
       Bob Pearson

----------
> From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:43:45 -0500
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-10 21:18:29 EST, you write:
> 
> << Has anyone seen these kits?  >>
> 
> I've got the 1/24 Pfalz D III. I haven't built it yet, but I open the box
> quite often and drool. It LOOKS great.
> Robert


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:46:59 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: German pride
Message-ID: <34B94BE3.2F20@bellsouth.net>

KarrArt wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-11 02:16:13 EST, you write:
> 
> << models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika
>  decals so they could be sent over for the european market. >>
> 
> It's gotten so stupid that some FINNISH (as in Finland) decals have the
> swastikas sliced in two so they can be marketed in facsist places that don't
> allow freedom of expression.Several years ago there was a small story in our
> newspaper about the trouble that a group of Navajo Indians were having selling
> items they'ed made that contained swastikas- a sun symbol in many different
> cultures around the world.
> Robert

When we demonize a curious arrangment of right angles to the point of
prosecution, we've become that which we are trying to protect ourselves
from.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:35:11 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <54276ee8.34b94920@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-11 01:19:14 EST, you write:

<< Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha?
  >>
Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a dresser,
then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano,then the turntable
lid (very inconvenient for playing records), right now it's precariously
hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. Lately my wife
has noticed me looking through sources on the HP 0/400 and her glances aren't
so much angry as they are sad resignation.
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:05:19 -0800
From: Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
To: WW1 Mailing list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <23051980937815@KAIEN.COM>


Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or were
you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano is
welcome as well.

Bob

----------
> From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:55:27 -0500
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-11 01:19:14 EST, you write:
> 
> << Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha?
>   >>
> Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a
dresser,
> then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano,then the
turntable
> lid (very inconvenient for playing records), right now it's precariously
> hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. Lately my
wife
> has noticed me looking through sources on the HP 0/400 and her glances
aren't
> so much angry as they are sad resignation.
> Robert


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:05:15 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <34B9502B.7737@bellsouth.net>

Bob Pearson wrote:
> 
> Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or were
> you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano is
> welcome as well.
> 
> Bob
> 
> ----------
> > From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
> > To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:55:27 -0500
> >
> > In a message dated 98-01-11 01:19:14 EST, you write:
> >
> > << Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha?
> >   >>
> > Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a
> dresser,
> > then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano,then the
> turntable
> > lid (very inconvenient for playing records), right now it's precariously
> > hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. Lately my
> wife
> > has noticed me looking through sources on the HP 0/400 and her glances
> aren't
> > so much angry as they are sad resignation.
> > Robert

Hey! I play a Rick.4001. Can I be in the band?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:23:13 -0800
From: Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
To: WW1 Mailing list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <23231382337857@KAIEN.COM>


E.

Welcome to the list band. we now have (I believe)

Baritone vocalist
Bagpipes
Sitar
Guitar
Bass
drums
percussion
Trumpet
Tuba
Manager
Roadies

Bob (Black Les Paul Custom and sky blue Strat user)



----------
> From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:11:02 -0500
> 
> Bob Pearson wrote:
> > 
> > Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or
were
> > you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano
is
> > welcome as well.
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > ----------
> > > From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:55:27 -0500
> > >
> > > In a message dated 98-01-11 01:19:14 EST, you write:
> > >
> > > << Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha?
> > >   >>
> > > Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a
> > dresser,
> > > then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano,then the
> > turntable
> > > lid (very inconvenient for playing records), right now it's
precariously
> > > hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. Lately
my
> > wife
> > > has noticed me looking through sources on the HP 0/400 and her glances
> > aren't
> > > so much angry as they are sad resignation.
> > > Robert
> 
> Hey! I play a Rick.4001. Can I be in the band?


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:35:35 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <63fd008c.34b95749@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-11 18:05:34 EST, you write:

<< Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or were
 you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano is
 welcome as well.
 
 Bob
  >>
Gibson EB-O bass, Les Paul Jr(SG shape), SG, '68 Fender Bassman amp,'63 Fender
Super Reverb amp.To make it somehow relevant, I once refinished a guy's
Firebird bass copy in lozenge- top colors on the front, bottem colors on the
back, light blue rib tape colored edging.Half-size polygons.Tinted yellowy-
brown lacquer to simulate dope!
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:44:47 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <34B9596F.760A@bellsouth.net>

Bob Pearson wrote:
> 
> E.
> 
> Welcome to the list band. we now have (I believe)
> 
> Baritone vocalist
> Bagpipes
> Sitar
> Guitar
> Bass
> drums
> percussion
> Trumpet
> Tuba
> Manager
> Roadies
> 
> Bob (Black Les Paul Custom and sky blue Strat user)
> 
> ----------
> > From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
> > To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:11:02 -0500
> >
> > Bob Pearson wrote:
> > >
> > > Fender Bassman, you play Bass? Hey welcome back to the list band. Or
> were
> > > you using it for guitar? Oh well a third guitar is okay. And the piano
> is
> > > welcome as well.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
> > > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:55:27 -0500
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 98-01-11 01:19:14 EST, you write:
> > > >
> > > > << Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha?
> > > >   >>
> > > > Uh... well...., it sat on the stereo rack for awhile, then moved to a
> > > dresser,
> > > > then to another dresser, back to the stereo,next the piano,then the
> > > turntable
> > > > lid (very inconvenient for playing records), right now it's
> precariously
> > > > hanging on to the top of an old Fender Bassman speaker cabinet. Lately
> my
> > > wife
> > > > has noticed me looking through sources on the HP 0/400 and her glances
> > > aren't
> > > > so much angry as they are sad resignation.
> > > > Robert
> >
> > Hey! I play a Rick.4001. Can I be in the band?

Cool! I got a gig.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:20:43 +0800
From: Joey Valenciano <joeyval@philonline.com.ph>
To: wwi
Subject: 1/32 scale
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980112082043.006a80c0@philonline.com.ph>

Hi Guys,

This is from a Tom's Modelworks catalog of a few years back, all 1/32 scale:

Kit#    Name             Comments  Price
3200    Pfalz D.III      P,R,B,D   $34.95
3201    Sopwith Triplane P,R,B,D   $36.95
3202    Sopwith Pup
3203    Fokker Dr.I
3204    Fokker D.VII
3205    Albatros D.II
3206    Albatros D.III
3207    Albatros D.V
3208    Halberstadt Cl.II
3209    Pfalz D.IIIa     P,R,B,D   $34.95

P=Plastic R=Resin B=P/etch D=Decals

Only 3 kits with a price probably only three were produced.


*********************************************************************

Joey Valenciano               WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, 
joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph     sitarist 
tel. (632) 921-26-75
Metro-Manila, Philippines

            "The more you know, the more you don't know."

*********************************************************************


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:25:53 -0800
From: Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
To: WW1 Mailing list <wwi>
Subject: Re: 1/32 scale
Message-ID: <00255319937958@KAIEN.COM>


Does anyone know if the Sopwith Triplane is available anywhere?

Regards,
        Bob Pearson

----------
> From: Joey Valenciano <joeyval@philonline.com.ph>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: 1/32 scale
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:24:56 -0500
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> This is from a Tom's Modelworks catalog of a few years back, all 1/32
scale:
> 
> Kit#    Name             Comments  Price
> 3200    Pfalz D.III      P,R,B,D   $34.95
> 3201    Sopwith Triplane P,R,B,D   $36.95
> 3202    Sopwith Pup
> 3203    Fokker Dr.I
> 3204    Fokker D.VII
> 3205    Albatros D.II
> 3206    Albatros D.III
> 3207    Albatros D.V
> 3208    Halberstadt Cl.II
> 3209    Pfalz D.IIIa     P,R,B,D   $34.95
> 
> P=Plastic R=Resin B=P/etch D=Decals
> 
> Only 3 kits with a price probably only three were produced.
> 
> 
> *********************************************************************
> 
> Joey Valenciano               WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, 
> joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph     sitarist 
> tel. (632) 921-26-75
> Metro-Manila, Philippines
> 
>             "The more you know, the more you don't know."
> 
> *********************************************************************
> 


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:16:37 -0400
From: Alberto Rada <rada@true.NET>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980111211637.00720000@pop.true.net>

Hey Robert

We have just started a new hobby, 

Marco's model watching

SALUDOS


Alberto


At 05:43 PM 11-01-98 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-10 21:18:29 EST, you write:
>
><< Has anyone seen these kits?  >>
>
>I've got the 1/24 Pfalz D III. I haven't built it yet, but I open the box
>quite often and drool. It LOOKS great.
>Robert
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:09:31 EST
From: BStett3770 <BStett3770@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 1/32 scale
Message-ID: <ba77392d.34b96d4d@aol.com>

Hi Bob

I'll contact Tom's M/W tomorrow, and ask if he has any left.\

Keep Modeling
Barry
Rosemont Hobby

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:31:36 -0200
From: "Alexandre " <atcampos@nutecnet.com.br>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: German pride
Message-ID: <199801120131.BAA09846@srv1-cas.cas.nutecnet.com.br>

  Hi Dave and all !

  I was there (Germany) in January, 1996. I visited Berlin, K=F6ln, M=FCn=
chen
and F=FCssen (Neuschwanstein Castle). I have the same feelings about germ=
an
antique dealers and all I can found in Berlin was three Militay Antiques
Shop but I found NOTHING there about WW I or WW II. The only place that
gave me any information was the Berliner Auktionshaus f=FCr Geschichte
(Motzstrasse 22, 10777 - Berlin).They have a lot of pieces for auction
through the mail (most of them WW II).  I know their policy about Nazi
related items is tough and they don't say to anyone if they have some
pieces about that period.=20
  As for the swastikas, I do agree with you. They existed in that era and
why not put them on model kits? This doesn't mean that we are Neo-Nazis o=
r
something but only trying to represent that machines accordingly the
History.
  Despite that "policy problem",  the german people is polite and I loved
any second that I spent there.

  Best regards,

  Alexandre - atcampos@nutecnet.com.br - Brazil


  P.S.: as for the swastikas, you can buy the AeroMaster set (the 1/48 se=
t
is great!).



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:07:04 -0500
From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: German pride
Message-ID: <199801120207.VAA09203@pease1.sr.unh.edu>

At 02:18 AM 1/11/98 -0500, Ernest Thomas wrote:
>>I was under the impression that it was against the law to display
>swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about
>the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I
>think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika
>decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think
>the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there?
        Our exchange student says it is absolutely "Verboten". Anything that
is against their Post WWII Constitution or that could endanger it is
illegal...including the swastika.
HTH
Mike Muth



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:14:05 EST
From: DavidL1217 <DavidL1217@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Albatros CX
Message-ID: <a09bda12.34b97c6e@aol.com>

I am beginning to work on the Skybirds Albatros CX.  Unfortunaltely, there is
a derth of photos for this aircraft.  

I have the photo in the Thetford and Gray book, along with the nice close up
of the nose in an old Windsock.  Although the kit has marking for 4 machines,
all but one  is  just serial #'s.  What I am looking for is some sort of
squadron markings.

I would particularly like something built by Linke Hoffmann as they employed a
unique 'splotch' camoflague.

Thanks in advance!

David

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:50:23 -0700
From: Charles Hart <hartc@spot.colorado.edu>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Albatros CX
Message-ID: <l03102800b0df34f5349f@[128.138.153.98]>

>I am beginning to work on the Skybirds Albatros CX.  Unfortunaltely, there is
>a derth of photos for this aircraft.
>
>I have the photo in the Thetford and Gray book, along with the nice close up
>of the nose in an old Windsock.  Although the kit has marking for 4 machines,
>all but one  is  just serial #'s.  What I am looking for is some sort of
>squadron markings.
>
>I would particularly like something built by Linke Hoffmann as they employed a
>unique 'splotch' camoflague.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>David

    About the only other reference I can think of is one of the series of
Ian Stair drawings on Albatros two seaters that appeared in the UK mag
Scale Models.  Each piece had a photo or two on the featured a/c.  I'd have
to dig a bit to find my copy.  I'm sure that one of the database types on
this list will provide more specific information.

Charles

hartc@spot.colorado.edu



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:55:26 -0600
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Albatros CX
Message-ID: <19980111.205622.13982.0.mbittner@juno.com>

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:27:22 -0500 DavidL1217
<DavidL1217@aol.com> writes:

> I am beginning to work on the Skybirds Albatros CX.
> Unfortunaltely, there is a derth of photos for this aircraft.

Here's what I show for the C.X:

Scale Models, Jan 1980 (w/1/72nd scale drawings)
Windsock, Vol 5 No ; Vol 8 No 6 has detail and cockpit photo's;
Vol 13 No 1 has a review of the Skybirds kit.
WW1 Aero, No 109 has Cockpits/Instruments

HTH


Matt Bittner

------------------------------

Date: 	Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:48:12 -0500
From: Dave Watts <davew@wattstrainshop.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Air Classics article
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111224812.007d9100@192.168.0.5>

Can anyone help me out with a xerox or what not, on an article that
appeared in Air Classics Vol.6, Nr.5, June, 1970.  From what little I can
tell, the article discusses either l.M.G. 08/15 Maxim SPANDAU MG's, or
something about the MG ammo belt being too large to go down the belt chute
tube.  This is what I was talking about in my "article in progress", I
contend they had to use what is termed a "Parabellum belt".  Much appreciated!
l.M.G. Dave


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:55:18 -0800
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: German pride
Message-ID: <199801120355.AA10280@ednet1.orednet.org>




Mike Muth sez:

>        Our exchange student says it is absolutely "Verboten". Anything that
>is against their Post WWII Constitution or that could endanger it is
>illegal...including the swastika.


Dunno, I've got photos of both the Me-262 and Me-163 as currently
on display in the Deutsches Museum and they both clearly
display swastikas.  So it's gotta be something less than
"absolutely Verboten".

I believe there is a "historical" exemption to the general
swastika ban which allows its use on genuine and reproduction
"historical" items so long as it use doesn't have the effect
of advancing or glorifying Nazism - thus the display of the
swastika on the restored Messerschmitts is ok.  Similarly,
building, displaying, even selling, an historically accurate
model of a WW2 aircraft with swastikas would be permissable.
Or, Voss's Albatross, for that matter (just to get a 
WW1 reference in here so this isn't completely off-topic)

The problem with swastikas in kits is that it isn't clear whether
these are "toys" or "historical models".  Most manufacturers
opt to omit them rather than run the risk of legal hassles
and possible adverse public relations from outraged parents
who find their 10-year-old happily applying hated Nazi 
symbols to his plastic kit.  After market decal sheets
with swastikas are, I understand, freely available in Germany
as it is acknowledged that these are not "toys" but rather
for the purpose of creating "historical models"

My two cents worth on this somewhat off-theme thread.


Cheers and all,

--
                 Bill Shatzer  - bshatzer@orednet.org

"This is the West, sir.  When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

------------------------------

Date: 	Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:15:54 -0500
From: Dave Watts <davew@wattstrainshop.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Fokker Dr.I 477/18
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111231554.007c8b00@192.168.0.5>

  I've got a buddy, Herman Cholewinski, who is building a R.C. 1/3 scale
Fok. Dr.I.  He wants to build it all red, so as to make it a real eye
catcher at the contests, etc.  He was hoping not to make it 425/18, but
needs photos for his judging information.  Upon reviewing Imrie's triplane
book, we found on page 63 (?), (I loaned him my book, so I can't be
positive), Dr.I 477/18, the caption says something like, the top of the
wings, aft fuselage, and wheels have been overpainted all red.  This leaves
the bottom of the wings and fuse, all light blue.  What he wanted to know
was if there are any photos of the plane either in factory fresh colors,
(he plans to paint it that way, then overpaint it red, and follow the cross
directorates, just as they would've in real life), or later operational
service photos depicting it in all red, if indeed it became all red!?, (or
even a photo of it, as earlier mentioned, since the serial number is not
really visible, and is a estimate by Imrie).  
l.M.G. Dave

PS.In reviewing some of my papers, I see I got a sketch from Dan Abbott on
machine gun pads, and I saw that he mentions for his sketch he used photos
of 477/18 that appeared in
 Cross & Cockade of Great Britain, Vol. 7, No.2 back cover, and
 Windsock International, Vol.4, No.1, Spring 1988
I don't have either of these.  Any help appreciated.


------------------------------

Date: 	Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:32:17 -0500
From: Dave Watts <davew@wattstrainshop.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Fok. Dr.I 425/18
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111233217.007d3c60@192.168.0.5>

I found it interesting when I cheked out photos of Fok. Dr.I 425/18, that
when normally depicted in art form, such as for a cover, just in general,
even as models or full scale replicas, they often have it all red with
patee crosses, with the rudder being all white, (which it was'nt, as far as
I can tell the rudder became all white when the crosses later were changed
to balken).  Nice little note or spot in Imrie's triplane book, the photo
that shows 425/18 freshly painted all red, it lacks the wing leading edge
rest caps.
l.M.G. Dave   


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:10:52 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Air Classics article
Message-ID: <4f1bd15e.34b9a5dd@aol.com>

 The article in question was by Col.G.B. Jarrett.
14 pages of simplified history that we've all learned by heart accompanied by
photos we've all seen a dozen time. There IS a short discussion about
disintegrating links versus web belts that includes some info about the
different size spacers sewn into different belts.
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:10:51 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <90af25e.34b9a5dc@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-11 20:19:59 EST, you write:

<< Hey Robert
 We have just started a new hobby, 
  Marco's model watching
  SALUDOS
 
  Alberto >>

Perhaps "Marco's Watching And Drooling Society"!
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:15:06 -0800
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Fokker Dr.I 477/18
Message-ID: <199801120515.AA16932@ednet1.orednet.org>



Dave writes:
>
>  I've got a buddy, Herman Cholewinski, who is building a R.C. 1/3 scale
>Fok. Dr.I.  He wants to build it all red, so as to make it a real eye
>catcher at the contests, etc.  He was hoping not to make it 425/18, but
>needs photos for his judging information.  Upon reviewing Imrie's triplane
>book, we found on page 63 (?), (I loaned him my book, so I can't be
>positive), Dr.I 477/18, the caption says something like, the top of the
>wings, aft fuselage, and wheels have been overpainted all red. 

That is the caption for Dr.I 152/17, not 477/17.  


>This leaves
>the bottom of the wings and fuse, all light blue.  What he wanted to know
>was if there are any photos of the plane either in factory fresh colors,
>(he plans to paint it that way, then overpaint it red, and follow the cross
>directorates, just as they would've in real life), or later operational
>service photos depicting it in all red, if indeed it became all red!?, (or
>even a photo of it, as earlier mentioned, since the serial number is not
>really visible, and is a estimate by Imrie).  

Depends on whether we are talking about 152/17 or 477/17,

The factory finish for 152/17 was likely the standard streaked Fokker
olive over CDL topsides and turquoise or blue under surfaces. 
As used by MvR, the wing upper surfaces, struts, aft fuselage
and tail surfaces (including the rudder, incidently) were
overpainted red.  Likely the cowling was as well but that's
not a "fer sure".  The white rectangles around the national
insignia were overpainted in red leaving only a thin white
outline arround the Eisenkruz (sp?) but the white areas
remain visable as noticably lighter in tone than the remainder
of the upper wing surfaces.

The remainder of the fuselage, forward of the national insignia
is standard streaked olive over CDL.

(Photo no. 93 on page 65 of the Imrie book, photo on page
 6 of Spring 1988 Windsock.)(I'm suspicious about the
supposed photo of 152/17 on page 18 of the Triplane
"In Action" Squadron/Signal book - I'm not sure that really
is 152/17 - but who knows fer sure.)

Dr. I 477/17 was overall red - including the undersurfaces apparently.
Rimell speculates that this a/c was returned to the Fokker
factory for recovering in _silk_ and, as it was specifically
intended for MvR, it left the factory doped in overall red and
thus the red _was_ the factory finish.

Although Imrie identifies photo 94 on page 65 of his book as
425/17, I believe this is an error (for a number of reasons)
and this photo actually depicts 477/17.  Rimell uses this
same photo on page 9 of Spring 1988 Windsock and ID's it
as 477/17 as well.  A 3/4 left rear view of this aircraft
is on page 8 of that same issue of Windsock.

The "real" 425/17 is shown on page 80 of Imrie's book (same
photo on page 8 of the Spring '88 Windsock.) 

>l.M.G. Dave
>
>PS.In reviewing some of my papers, I see I got a sketch from Dan Abbott on
>machine gun pads, and I saw that he mentions for his sketch he used photos
>of 477/18 that appeared in
> Cross & Cockade of Great Britain, Vol. 7, No.2 back cover, and
> Windsock International, Vol.4, No.1, Spring 1988
>I don't have either of these.  Any help appreciated.

I've got the Spring '88 Windsock - the data therein is pretty
much as outlined above. Hope this helps a bit.

Cheers and all,


--
                 Bill Shatzer  - bshatzer@orednet.org

"This is the West, sir.  When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:18:16 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: German pride
Message-ID: <1bd72fe0.34b9a798@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-11 23:05:21 EST, you write:

<< Dunno, I've got photos of both the Me-262 and Me-163 as currently
 on display in the Deutsches Museum and they both clearly
 display swastikas.  So it's gotta be something less than
 "absolutely Verboten". >>
Perhaps there has been a "lightening up". For years all the pics I saw of
these birds showed no swastikas.
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:23:08 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits?
Message-ID: <7a3a81e1.34b9a8bd@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-11 18:48:52 EST, you write:

<<  Welcome to the list band. we now have (I believe)
 > 
 > Baritone vocalist
 > Bagpipes
 > Sitar
 > Guitar
 > Bass
 > drums
 > percussion
 > Trumpet
 > Tuba
 > Manager
 > Roadies
 > 
 > Bo >>
And the Count Basie Orchestra on triangle
Robert 

------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 842
*********************