WWI Digest 841 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Information needed by DavidL1217 2) Re: Information needed by B-A-L 3) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by Alberto Rada 4) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by John & Allison Cyganowski 5) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Bob Pearson 6) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Ernest Thomas 7) Re: Marco miniatures kits? by Joey Valenciano 8) German pride by Dave Watts 9) Re: German pride by Ernest Thomas 10) Names by ModelerAl 11) Re: German pride by Bob Pearson 12) Re: German pride by Bob Pearson 13) Re: German pride by Bill Bacon 14) Re: German pride by "Chris Banyai-Riepl" 15) 1/72 white metal goodies for sale by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 16) Re: German pride by lothar@televar.com (mark) 17) Late Model Albatros(s) by Bob Pearson 18) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by John & Allison Cyganowski 19) Re: German pride by "Leonard Endy" 20) Re: German pride by John & Allison Cyganowski 21) Re: German pride by Ernest Thomas 22) Re: German pride by Ernest Thomas 23) Re: Late Model Albatros(s) by Ernest Thomas 24) Swastikas by Suvoroff 25) Deperdussin help by "Charles Duckworth" 26) Re: Deperdussin help by Kenneth Hagerup 27) Re: Deperdussin help by "Charles Duckworth" 28) RE: Deperdussin help by Shane Weier 29) Re: German pride by KarrArt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:54:56 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Re: Information needed Message-ID: Stabilizer was canvas. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:11:09 +0000 From: B-A-L To: wwi Subject: Re: Information needed Message-ID: <34B8D2FD.616A@eis.net.au> Any scource avaiable to me ( incl for OEF types ) shows the horizontal stablisers as a standard type rib construction with a linen covering - The rear tail plane roots were of course ply moulded Hope that helps DAVID R.L. LAWS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:09:58 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980111000958.00725cdc@pop.true.net> Hi Paul I have the Albatros, haven't built it yet, it is an impressive kit, photoetch is first class as well as every thing else, I am trying to get some hand with vacform parts before attempting this one, so I can't tell you much about the construction process, all I can say is that after opening the box and reviewing all the parts, measuring them etc. I still think its a good buy. SALUDOS Alberto p.d. all that about the vacform etc. is pure b/s , I am just plain scared to start this huge model. and there is also the problem of where to put it afterwards At 09:18 PM 10-01-98 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone seen these kits? I've considered getting one or two of them , >but a first hand view from someone who knows something about W.W.I aircraft, >would make this a lot more likely to happen. The E.V got good reviews in >FSM, but the picture of the built up model left me wondering; are the >problems I see due to the kits or to the builder... >(not that I can do any better) >Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. > >Cheers, > >Paul H > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:59:21 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <34B851A9.4135@worldnet.att.net> Bill Shatzer wrote: > > The fourth is the Fokker D.VII kit which first appeared about > five years ago or so > And yes, it can be had - but it is not a cheap date. > Our local hobby shop has the D.VII for $15.75 (US) + the Governor of Massachusetts' cut. The Revell-Germany issue with the Lozenge goes ~$30 (US). Not exactly a cheap date...On the other hand, I spent more on a girl, and gotten less! John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:17:30 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <05173064236486@KAIEN.COM> Is this lozenge for all surfaces or is it just the bottom surfaces of the wings as per the Buchner markings option? Regards, Bob Pearson nw: Hockey Night in Canada (Vancouver vs. Florida) ---------- > From: John & Allison Cyganowski > The Revell-Germany issue with the Lozenge goes ~$30 (US). Not exactly a > cheap date...On the other hand, I spent more on a girl, and gotten less! > > John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:09:41 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <34B86225.6F62@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Is this lozenge for all surfaces or is it just the bottom surfaces of the > wings as per the Buchner markings option? > > It's only for the top surfaces of the wings. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:13:15 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980111141315.006bffd4@philonline.com.ph> Hi Alberto et al, >I have the Albatros, haven't built it yet, it is an impressive kit, >photoetch is first >class as well as every thing else, I am trying to get some hand with vacform >parts before attempting this one Aw c'mon, a project like this should be no prob for a craftsman of your caliber. We've all seen your work on the Webpage. ;-) BTW, any more pics to share? >p.d. all that about the vacform etc. is pure b/s , I am just plain scared >to start this huge model. Ok, that, I understand. I've opened many a kit box saying, "I'm not worthy!" >and there is also the problem of where to put it afterwards Yes, twice the size of 1/48. How many a/c can you keep in the house? Robert, where do you keep your 1/32 Gotha? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:08:52 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: German pride Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111010852.0080cb90@192.168.0.5> This is a little off center, but a couple observations I thought I'd share, and has anyone else encountered this? I have the blessing through business to visit Germany fairly often. Two observations; One time while at a hobby shop, (in about 1983 during the recognition of 50 years, since Hitler had come to power), I was checking out a Me 109 kit, and couldn't help but notice the swastikas were inked out on the box lid, and upon closer inspection of the contents, the swastika decals had been cut out of the decal sheet. I've also noticed for years, (and possibly even still today), the restored aircraft at the museums in Germany, (such as the Deutches Museum in Munich, and the Technical museum in Berlin), do not have swastikas on the W.W.II aircraft, nor do they have machine guns on the W.W.I aircraft. I've talked to the directors of both museums, (Deutches in the late 80's, the Berlin last April), and they said that they had a internal policy of not displaying any "Nazi" or pro-war materials. The Berlin museum said they are beginning to change that policy. I'm too young, and did'nt loose any family members in W.W.II, to fully appreciate, or have any ill feelings towards modern day Germans, (of which not that many are in the main stream that served in W.W.II). By no means am I pro-Nazi, but I have a problem with cutting decals out of boxes, or displaying aircraft or artifacts at museums falsely just because it's politcally incorrect. I have seen a rejuvinated German pride in germans since reunification, and the curtain has come down. A somewhat dated joke told to me by a german, reflects this mind set, Do you know where the capital will be now that Germany is reunified? (your normal reponse) No, isn't it still Berlin? No, it's going to be Paris. Also when I would seek out W.W.I photos, medals, or what not at antique shops, I always had to stress W.W.I not W.W.II, they would look me over about 4 or 5 times, (not from thinking I was nuts, but from suspicion of who I might be), go to a back room, bring out a few items, if I would commit to buying something, they would go to back room again, and bring out some more, and it continued that way, at most all shops. It was always strange, but I found some goodies over the years. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:12:10 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B870CA.2C8@bellsouth.net> Dave Watts wrote: > > This is a little off center, but a couple observations I thought I'd share, > and has anyone else encountered this? > > I have the blessing through business to visit Germany fairly often. Two > observations; > One time while at a hobby shop, (in about 1983 during the recognition of > 50 years, since Hitler had come to power), I was checking out a Me 109 kit, > and couldn't help but notice the swastikas were inked out on the box lid, > and upon closer inspection of the contents, the swastika decals had been > cut out of the decal sheet. > I've also noticed for years, (and possibly even still today), the > restored aircraft at the museums in Germany, (such as the Deutches Museum > in Munich, and the Technical museum in Berlin), do not have swastikas on > the W.W.II aircraft, nor do they have machine guns on the W.W.I aircraft. > I've talked to the directors of both museums, (Deutches in the late 80's, > the Berlin last April), and they said that they had a internal policy of > not displaying any "Nazi" or pro-war materials. The Berlin museum said > they are beginning to change that policy. > I'm too young, and did'nt loose any family members in W.W.II, to fully > appreciate, or have any ill feelings towards modern day Germans, (of which > not that many are in the main stream that served in W.W.II). By no means > am I pro-Nazi, but I have a problem with cutting decals out of boxes, or > displaying aircraft or artifacts at museums falsely just because it's > politcally incorrect. > I have seen a rejuvinated German pride in germans since reunification, > and the curtain has come down. A somewhat dated joke told to me by a > german, reflects this mind set, > > Do you know where the capital will be now that Germany is reunified? > > (your normal reponse) No, isn't it still Berlin? > > No, it's going to be Paris. > > Also when I would seek out W.W.I photos, medals, or what not at antique > shops, I always had to stress W.W.I not W.W.II, they would look me over > about 4 or 5 times, (not from thinking I was nuts, but from suspicion of > who I might be), go to a back room, bring out a few items, if I would > commit to buying something, they would go to back room again, and bring out > some more, and it continued that way, at most all shops. It was always > strange, but I found some goodies over the years. > Dave Hey Dave, I was under the impression that it was against the law to display swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there? Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:15:02 EST From: ModelerAl To: wwi Subject: Names Message-ID: <7beccf0b.34b87177@aol.com> Paul wrote: <> Oh, yeah? Try "Superczynski" !! =o) Al http://users.aol.com/modeleral ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:22:08 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <07220877536651@KAIEN.COM> Ernest, I was under the impression that it was the Japanese kits that had no swastikas. In fact my Bf-110 came with black and white diamonds. Some manufaturers get around this by printing the swastika in two pieces. Regards, Bob Pearson nl: Chantal Kreviazuk - Under These Rocks and Stones Ernest wrote . . . > I was under the impression that it was against the law to display > swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about > the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I > think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika > decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think > the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there? > > Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:24:13 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <07241309436654@KAIEN.COM> Me again, It makes you wonder what the PC groups make of the use of the swastika on Voss' D.III, RFC/RAF training aircraft or the Lafayette Escadrille's aircraft? Bob ---------- > From: Bob Pearson > To: WW1 Mailing list > Subject: Re: German pride > > Ernest, > > I was under the impression that it was the Japanese kits that had no > swastikas. In fact my Bf-110 came with black and white diamonds. Some > manufaturers get around this by printing the swastika in two pieces. > > Regards, > Bob Pearson > > nl: Chantal Kreviazuk - Under These Rocks and Stones > > Ernest wrote . . . > > > I was under the impression that it was against the law to display > > swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about > > the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I > > think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika > > decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think > > the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there? > > > > Ernest. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:26:22 -0600 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B8741E.509C4F3B@netjava.net> Not to mention Native Americans and Native Canadians!! Cheers, Bill B. Bob Pearson wrote: > Me again, > > It makes you wonder what the PC groups make of the use of the swastika on > Voss' D.III, RFC/RAF training aircraft or the Lafayette Escadrille's > aircraft? > > Bob > > ---------- > > From: Bob Pearson > > To: WW1 Mailing list > > Subject: Re: German pride > > > > Ernest, > > > > I was under the impression that it was the Japanese kits that had no > > swastikas. In fact my Bf-110 came with black and white diamonds. Some > > manufaturers get around this by printing the swastika in two pieces. > > > > Regards, > > Bob Pearson > > > > nl: Chantal Kreviazuk - Under These Rocks and Stones > > > > Ernest wrote . . . > > > > > I was under the impression that it was against the law to display > > > swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about > > > the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I > > > think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika > > > decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think > > > the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there? > > > > > > Ernest. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:28:57 -0800 From: "Chris Banyai-Riepl" To: Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <01bd1e62$94262cc0$a64ffbce@chrisban> Or how about the entire Finnish AF during WWII? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 11:47 PM Subject: Re: German pride > >Me again, > >It makes you wonder what the PC groups make of the use of the swastika on >Voss' D.III, RFC/RAF training aircraft or the Lafayette Escadrille's >aircraft? > >Bob > >---------- >> From: Bob Pearson >> To: WW1 Mailing list >> Subject: Re: German pride >> >> Ernest, >> >> I was under the impression that it was the Japanese kits that had no >> swastikas. In fact my Bf-110 came with black and white diamonds. Some >> manufaturers get around this by printing the swastika in two pieces. >> >> Regards, >> Bob Pearson >> >> nl: Chantal Kreviazuk - Under These Rocks and Stones >> >> Ernest wrote . . . >> >> > I was under the impression that it was against the law to display >> > swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about >> > the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I >> > think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika >> > decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think >> > the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there? >> > >> > Ernest. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:33:38 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: 1/72 white metal goodies for sale Message-ID: <199801110733.AB07888@ednet1.orednet.org> Having pretty much given up on 1/72 modeling (damn bifocals and all!), I find I have a bunch of white metal goodies which I am unlikely to ever use. I've got: Aeroclub engines: BMW, Mercedes, 80 hp Le Rhone, SSW Aeroclub MGs (two of each): Spandau, Lewis, Vickers New Hope Designs: 13 pilot and ground crew figures, more or less equally divided between RFC and German types. I'd sell the whole bunch for $28 (I'll pay the postage within the USofA - elsewhere, we'll have to dicker). If anyone is interested. an off-list response would probably be most appropriate. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:59:55 -0800 (PST) From: lothar@televar.com (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <199801110859.AAA17801@concord.televar.com> >Not to mention Native Americans and Native Canadians!! And all those Hindus too, sahib.... MR >Bob Pearson wrote: > >> Me again, >> >> It makes you wonder what the PC groups make of the use of the swastika on >> Voss' D.III...... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:12:53 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Late Model Albatros(s) Message-ID: <10125322636800@KAIEN.COM> Greetings All, Thanks to a suggestion (and GA) from Chris Banyai-Reipl, I decided to do a what-if profile of a (very) late model Albatros(s) in Naval lozenge. Anyone wanting to see it just send me a message as this is one that won't make it to the site - but it would be an idea for a model contest somewhere. The file size is somewhere between 77k and 116k. Regards, Bob Pearson nl: Dusty Springfield Anthology disc 1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 07:32:05 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <34B8BBC5.23D7@worldnet.att.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Is this lozenge for all surfaces or is it just the bottom surfaces of the > wings as per the Buchner markings option? > I don't have this kit. I do know it is supposed to have loz. for the wings. As far as how much - I would like to know too. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:10:59 GMT From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34b8ec62.596088@legend.firstsaga.com> Well, the truth be known it is against the law to display the swastika in Germany, During my years there the issue was often raised about the display of that symbol. When they filmed the Winds Of War, part of the film was shot in what was then our HQ's building. Over the entrance door was a carved stone emblem of the eagle with the swastika in the wreath of flowers over the eagle's head. Well, the eagle looks fine but the film people had to come with a swastika to put in the wreath, the original was chisled-out sometime after the war ended..=20 As of 1983/1984 there was one gasthaus that still celebrated Hitler's birthday every year. As far as model kits go Heller just marked out the decals and box top art. The easy cure was just to get a micro-scale sheet of them. =20 Len Endy lfendy@firstsaga.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:22:48 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B8C7A8.1984@worldnet.att.net> I have found them to initially be a very stand-offish bunch. Part of it is senitivity over their recent history, but I swear a large portion of it is Euro-centrism, the idea that Americans are cultural hayseeds. I find that once they are convinced you know what you are talking about, they warm up a little. It is illegal to disply swastikas and Nazi symbols in Germany. The re-unified Germany has induced tensions in its neighbors, especially Poland, over renewed German expansion, or attempts to recover lost territory. Shocking, but this is still an undercurrent in Germany. As far as models are concerned, my impression is that the demise of swastikas in kits is largely the result of pressure by such groups as the Anti-Defamation League etc. Their view is that swastikas are Nazi symbols and that they can never be displayed in any other context - period. I shall refrain from discussing the merits of this argument. I kind of like the approach Testors took took a few years ago. They removed the offending symbol from the box, but still included them on the decal sheet, and inseted a disclaimer on the instructions. The disclaimer goes something like "These things are here in the interests of historical accuracy, not to offend anyone. Use 'em or throw 'em away at your own discretion." Sorry for the long-winded off-topic dissertation. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:07:40 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B8E03C.146D@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Ernest, > > I was under the impression that it was the Japanese kits that had no > swastikas. In fact my Bf-110 came with black and white diamonds. Some > manufaturers get around this by printing the swastika in two pieces. > > Regards, > Bob Pearson > > nl: Chantal Kreviazuk - Under These Rocks and Stones > > Ernest wrote . . . > > > I was under the impression that it was against the law to display > > swastikas in Germany-even on a model airplane. But I didn't know about > > the "no machine guns" rule. For quite some time, until fairly recently I > > think, models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika > > decals so they could be sent over for the european market. But I think > > the Japanese mfg. kits did have them. Any Experts out there? > > > > Ernest. I could be wrong about that. It's happened before. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:31:59 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <34B8E5EF.CC@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Me again, > > It makes you wonder what the PC groups make of the use of the swastika on > Voss' D.III, RFC/RAF training aircraft or the Lafayette Escadrille's > aircraft? > > Bob > > ---------- >I will have to double check this but I think all the other swastikas rotated in the other direction than the Nazi ones. The swastika goes back possibly to biblical times and was originally a symbol of peace. Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:49:22 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Late Model Albatros(s) Message-ID: <34B8F812.6BEB@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > > Greetings All, > > Thanks to a suggestion (and GA) from Chris Banyai-Reipl, I decided to do a > what-if profile of a (very) late model Albatros(s) in Naval lozenge. Anyone > wanting to see it just send me a message as this is one that won't make it > to the site - but it would be an idea for a model contest somewhere. The > file size is somewhere between 77k and 116k. > > Regards, > Bob Pearson > > nl: Dusty Springfield Anthology disc 1 Ok. I'll bite. Send it on over. ethomas6@bellsouth.net Looking forward to it. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:50:54 EST From: Suvoroff To: wwi Subject: Swastikas Message-ID: <400b5c9.34b8f86e@aol.com> The Finnish swastika predates the Nazi use of this symbol, but the swastika does "turn" in the same direction. Since the swastika is illegal in Germany, Neo-nazis there have taken to using the Imperial German naval ensign (WWI era and before) as a substitute. What a terrible thing to dishonour this old standard. Yours, James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:06:59 -0600 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: "ww1list" Subject: Deperdussin help Message-ID: <199801111809.MAA05092@mail.primary.net> With almost finishing the Pyro AVRO type 'D'; am shaking the box with 1/48th Deperdussin 1911inside it. Besides the Munson drawings are then any other sources I can reference that shows this aircraft. Munson writes in his text that many were used in Great Britian and France in races prior to WWI are there any shots of these in racing garb? Thanks set wwi mail ack end Charlie Duckworth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:14:02 -0600 From: Kenneth Hagerup To: wwi Subject: Re: Deperdussin help Message-ID: <34B9361A.2FA0@prodigy.net> Charles Duckworth wrote: > = > Message forwarded from Classic Prodigy=AE > = > --------------------------------------------------------------- > = > Subject: Deperdussin help > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:13:44 -0500 > From: "Charles Duckworth" > Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > To: Multiple recipients of list > = > With almost finishing the Pyro AVRO type 'D'; am shaking the box with= > 1/48th Deperdussin 1911inside it. > = > Besides the Munson drawings are then any other sources I can reference = that > shows this aircraft. Munson writes in his text that many were used in > Great Britian and France in races prior to WWI are there any shots of t= hese > in racing garb? Finally, some topic to which I may actually be able to contribute! I used three sources for my Deperdussin Kinert, Racing Planes and Air Races - A Complete History, Volume I James, Schneider Trophy Aircraft 1913-1931 Gwynn-Jones, The Air Racers - Aviations Golden Era 1909-1936 All have three views and photos. Ken http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/4992 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:54:16 -0600 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: Subject: Re: Deperdussin help Message-ID: <199801112157.PAA14195@mail.primary.net> Ken thanks VERY much, Charlie ---------- > From: Kenneth Hagerup > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Deperdussin help > Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 3:26 PM > > Charles Duckworth wrote: > > = > > > Message forwarded from Classic Prodigy=AE > > = > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > = > > > Subject: Deperdussin help > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:13:44 -0500 > > From: "Charles Duckworth" > > Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > = > > > With almost finishing the Pyro AVRO type 'D'; am shaking the box with= > > > 1/48th Deperdussin 1911inside it. > > = > > > Besides the Munson drawings are then any other sources I can reference = > that > > shows this aircraft. Munson writes in his text that many were used in > > Great Britian and France in races prior to WWI are there any shots of t= > hese > > in racing garb? > > Finally, some topic to which I may actually be able to contribute! > > I used three sources for my Deperdussin > > Kinert, Racing Planes and Air Races - A Complete History, Volume I > James, Schneider Trophy Aircraft 1913-1931 > Gwynn-Jones, The Air Racers - Aviations Golden Era 1909-1936 > > All have three views and photos. > > Ken > http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/4992 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:06:19 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Deperdussin help Message-ID: <199801112217.IAA19682@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hi Charlie, You ask: >With almost finishing the Pyro AVRO type 'D'; am shaking the box with >1/48th Deperdussin 1911inside it. >Besides the Munson drawings are then any other sources I can reference that >shows this aircraft. Munson writes in his text that many were used in >Great Britian and France in races prior to WWI are there any shots of these >in racing garb? I have this kit as well, and intend to build it - if it's at all possible - as a 1912 Deperdussin. What I *don't* know at the moment ise whether there is any commonality whatever. But they do have similar appearances. Why I mention this, is that Australia bought and used two 1912 Deperdussin Monoplanes (and other a/c) to equip the flying school at Point Cook just prior to ww1. One of them currently resides at the Treloar Centre (which is a restoration and storage centre to the Aust War Memorial) in Canberra. I photographed the aircraft thoroughly last year, but still haven't got my film processed. I've started cycling the film from that trip through the processors now, so may be able to scan some and email them to you (or Al for the site) if you are interested. Unfortunately I can't promise to do this quickly, finances being seriosuly constrained still, but if you can wait a couple of weeks......and if a 1912 Dep. is anything like a 1911 Dep ..... and if my photos turn out okay..... and if I figure out how to scan em... Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:16:03 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: German pride Message-ID: <2e436de1.34b944a5@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-11 02:16:13 EST, you write: << models manufactured in the U.S. didn't even come with swastika decals so they could be sent over for the european market. >> It's gotten so stupid that some FINNISH (as in Finland) decals have the swastikas sliced in two so they can be marketed in facsist places that don't allow freedom of expression.Several years ago there was a small story in our newspaper about the trouble that a group of Navajo Indians were having selling items they'ed made that contained swastikas- a sun symbol in many different cultures around the world. Robert ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 841 *********************