WWI Digest 840 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Fokker D.VII Anthology I-Oh no, not again by DavidL1217 2) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 3) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by KarrArt 4) Re: Aircraft with Dual Controls by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 5) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by "Gillian & Ray Boorman" 6) RE: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Reid Sweatman 7) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Suvoroff 8) Re: Barker VC by kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 9) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by "Sandy Adam" 10) Re: Smer Ansaldo by "Sandy Adam" 11) Re: Smer /Merit/Aurora by "Sandy Adam" 12) Re: Barker VC by "Sandy Adam" 13) Re: Fokker D.VII Anthology I-Oh no, not again by John & Allison Cyganowski 14) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Lee Mensinger 15) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by John & Allison Cyganowski 16) Camo. vs. Nat. Marks. by Matthew Zivich 17) Information needed by Matthew Zivich 18) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Joey Valenciano 19) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Bob Pearson 20) Re: Information needed by John & Allison Cyganowski 21) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by John & Allison Cyganowski 22) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by BStett3770 23) Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by Joey Valenciano 24) Re: Camo. vs. Nat. Marks. by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 25) Marco miniatures kits? by "Paul R. Howard" 26) Sopwith Turtleback by "Charles Duckworth" 27) RE: 1/32 WWI Aircraft by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:57:04 EST From: DavidL1217 To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII Anthology I-Oh no, not again Message-ID: <38ec0962.34b6f191@aol.com> Revised Drawings? Weren't they right the first time? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:53:16 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <199801100453.AA15798@ednet1.orednet.org> John writes: > >This underlying thread of scale partisanship got me wondering; > >How come there are not more 1/32 WWI aircraft? I can only think of 2 >injection molded examples, Hobby Craft Nieuport and Camel. 1/32 WWII >seems well represented at the modeling shows. > >How about a survey? What types are available and from whom in 1/32? I think you named the only two 1/32 injection molded kits. ID Models did a 1/32 vac Albatros D.V and Falcon a 1/32 vac Fokker D.VIII many years ago but I think that was about it. >Why the dearth in injection molded kits? One might better inquire as to why the dearth of WW1 kits in any scale. Except for occassional re-issues of ancient molds, no mass-marketing kit company is issuing WW1 kits in any scale Which, I think, relates to the general lack of 1/32 WW1 kits in particular - the amount of detail generally demanded by 1/32 modelers makes it uneconomical to produce a 1/32 kit for the limited WW1 market - there just aren't enough sales to support the level of detail which would have to be included on a "competitive" WW1 1/32 kit. Hobby Craft's attempt to produce a line of "simplified" 1/32 WW1 kits was apparently not a sales success. >Why 1/28? The original Revell 1/28 kits first came out in 1956 or '57 in the days when constant scale as opposed to "fit the box" scale was still a foreign concept to American manufacturers. 1/28th scale apparently fit Revell's boxes nicely and so, 1/28th it was. We should, I suppose, be grateful that Revell at least did all four of its WW1 a/c in more or less the same scale (although the Camel is a little over scale compared to the other three) so that the models can be attractively displayed together. That was more the exception than the rule during the 1950's. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:42:21 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <4aa9b2b4.34b71850@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-10 01:26:08 EST, you write: << I belive standardization came about because of the IPMS >> The Airfix 1/72 line predates IPMS by several years.Monograms 1/48 line was in full swing also.Not to downplay the role played by IPMS in advancing the hobby, but sometimes I think they take a little too much credit. Not trying to start a fight! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:57:37 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Aircraft with Dual Controls Message-ID: <005801bd1d95$269b81a0$ac10c2cf@rayboorm> In the book "Barker VC" One of Barkers letters home relates how when he was an Observer with 15 squadron His Pilot was wounded and eventually feinted. Barker states that the Aircraft was fitted with dual controls and he was able to land the aircraft from the observers position. I believe the aircraft was as you state one of the BE2 family. Of course this was a letter home and Barker did have a habit of elaborating on the truth. So the aircraft may have been almost at ground level and glided in. By the way Barker VC is quite a good read and appears to have been written by the author with no bias either for Barker or against. Point of trivia that the book makes mention of, all but four of Barkers kills were in one particular Sopwith Camel B6313, and this happened over the period of a year. Rather a long life for one particular Airframe. Ray Boorman (Gillian_Boorman@bc.sympatico.ca) -----Original Message----- From: Mick Fauchon To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 5:08 PM Subject: RE: Aircraft with Dual Controls > > >> I often wondered what >> utility this *really* has aside from allowing the rear seater a modicum >> of self delusion since he has no lateral control at all. >> > That appears to be true of Be2s as well; my drawings showed a control >column, but no rudder-bar. I gather this was the normal "dual control" >arrangement. > If the pilot was hit, as sometimes happened, and slumped over his >own control-column, it would jam both, and......well..... > > As far as I'm aware, no German two-seaters had even that rudimentary >arrangement. > > > Cheers, > > Mick. > > > > >-- -- >Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au >Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 >University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 > > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM > M M > M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M > M M > M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M > M M > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:32:37 -0800 From: "Gillian & Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <00f101bd1d9a$01c68b40$ac10c2cf@rayboorm> Airfix and Frog both had large ranges of models in 1/72 at the end of the fifties. In Britain Monogram and Aurora were a bit too rich for most kids pocket money, even if you could get them. From the way I and my brother built them back then, the whole selling point was the fact that they were all one scale. You could get a large airforce at pocket money prices. One or two kits a week, and you could dog fight all your models and they looked right. When you add this play factor to the fact that this was the period of time that the baby boomers were kids, you get a huge population of customers, most kids at that time built models. Whereas the IPMS'ers at that time would be a drop in the bucket. Ray Boorman -----Original Message----- From: KarrArt To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 10:47 PM Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft >In a message dated 98-01-10 01:26:08 EST, you write: > ><< I belive standardization came about because of the IPMS >> > >The Airfix 1/72 line predates IPMS by several years.Monograms 1/48 line was in >full swing also.Not to downplay the role played by IPMS in advancing the >hobby, but sometimes I think they take a little too much credit. >Not trying to start a fight! >Robert > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:24:20 -0700 From: Reid Sweatman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <01BD1D77.3E1DDC60.Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu> On Friday, January 09, 1998 10:02 PM, Bill Shatzer [SMTP:bshatzer@orednet.org] wrote: > 1/28th scale apparently fit Revell's boxes nicely and so, > 1/28th it was. We should, I suppose, be grateful that > Revell at least did all four of its WW1 a/c in more or > less the same scale (although the Camel is a little over > scale compared to the other three) so that the models > can be attractively displayed together. That was more > the exception than the rule during the 1950's. Pardon my ignorance, but *four*? I've only ever seen three in that series: the Camel, the Dr.I, and the Spad. What was the fourth, and can it be had? Reid Sweatman Programmer/Audio Engineer Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:37:13 EST From: Suvoroff To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <77f165c0.34b75d6a@aol.com> There is a newly released Fokker D.VII, but it has major shape problems, especially with the top wing. It appears to have been designed in the same era as the other kits. Yours, James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:41:09 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: Barker VC Message-ID: Ray Boorman wrote: >By the way Barker VC is quite a good read and appears to have been written >by the author with no bias either for Barker or against. > >Point of trivia that the book makes mention of, all but four of Barkers >kills were in one particular Sopwith Camel >B6313, and this happened over the period of a year. Rather a long life for >one particular Airframe. Barker VC is a good book. Besides the obligatory family history and war-time accounts, there was a good bit on the business relationship between Barker and Bishop in the 20s. I exchanged a few E-mails with the author and he said he may write a bio of A.R. Brown as well. We good Canadian boys can hope! Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:43:09 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <199801101203.MAA18603@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Airfix and Frog both had large ranges of models in 1/72 at the end of the > fifties. I agree with Ray's observation but feel that in the UK it is almost all due to Airfix who cemented 1/72 as the definitive scale to build a whole airforce. By doing their deal with FW Woolworths almost every town in the UK had a readily available selection of Airfix 1/72 kit at the time Ray identifies. They also made it known that all aircraft releases (apart from airliners) were always going to be 1/72, so the collector looked forward to each month's new offerings. Frog jumped scales many times, from Penguins in the 30s (all 1/72) to the fifties where they had a range of 1/72 and 1/96 jets, and a pocket money range of ftb kits in strange scales! Later in the sixties Frog adopted the Airfix lead and released their colour-coded 1/72 box ranges and from there on in it was 1/72 all the way. I must say though that as soon as I got my first Aurora 1/48 plane that was it for me! When Monogram 1/48 WW2 planes appeared it was Klondike time! At that time IPMS was hardly in existence and had no part in standardising early scales IMHO. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:48:07 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Smer Ansaldo Message-ID: <199801101203.MAA18606@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > Dear Matt: Well, exactly! If the national markings schemes were truly > derived on the basis of logic, then (as you said) the schemes of opposing > forces within a region should be as much un-alike as possible, rather than > similar. Two different things here surely Patrick - camouflage to hide you and Insignia to identify you. For the first, as you say, you would expect similar schemes over similar terrain. But for the second you assume you have now been seen and wish to be identified as FoF - so you make the markings as different as possible BUT you position them where abd how the other pilot will expect to find them. If this means inboard of elevators or stripes across wings, for both parties - so be it! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:59:44 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Smer /Merit/Aurora Message-ID: <199801101203.MAA18609@beryl.sol.co.uk> On the general topic of Smer, its maybe worth just reiterating the genesis of these kits, since we seem to have a lot of welcome new members, who may be unaware. The Smer kits are not Aurora reissues. The first six Aurora WWI kits were copied by JL Randall in the UK in the late fifties. I don't know if this was legal or not but these Merit kits were almost identical to the Aurora originals but not quite - they lacked groundcrew/bases and name badges etc. Merit then added some subjects of their own - the 504K, DH2, Shagbat, Stringbag, Bulldog, Tiger Moth and supposedly a 1/48 Hawker Hunter (although I could never find one). The 504K and DH2 continued the tradition of embossed markings (which I liked at the time as I handpainted-in the markings and threw away the transfers.) Merit then sold the moulds to Artiplast who added the SVA (no embossing) and some WW2 Italian jobs, before selling the whole lot to Smer who also bought the old Heller rubber-tyre SPAD (1/40?). So the Smer kits are not Aurora reissues as the K&B, Monogram and Glencoe kits are, but reissues of copies. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:05:59 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Barker VC Message-ID: <199801101228.MAA18876@beryl.sol.co.uk> .......I exchanged a few E-mails with the > author and he said he may write a bio of A.R. Brown as well. We good > Canadian boys can hope! > > Kevin Barrett. The number of young Canadians that filled the ranks of the RFC/RAF always staggers me, as does the success which they achieved. Hopefully worth many more books in the future. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:27:31 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII Anthology I-Oh no, not again Message-ID: <34B77742.7125@worldnet.att.net> DavidL1217 wrote: > > Revised Drawings? Weren't they right the first time? I can tell you rather ruefully, that the drawings of the Albatros D.II in Albatros Fighters have been revised over the ones in the D.II Datafile, There are some striking differences. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:37:34 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi, KarrArt@aol.com, "lemen@sat.net" Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <34B7B1DE.6ED668E2@sat.net> KarrArt wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-10 01:26:08 EST, you write: > > << I belive standardization came about because of the IPMS >> > Robert says: The Airfix 1/72 line predates IPMS by several > years.Monograms 1/48 line was in > full swing also.Not to downplay the role played by IPMS in advancing > the > hobby, but sometimes I think they take a little too much credit. > Not trying to start a fight! > I am more than slightly aware of Airfix being before IPMS. My first plastic model was a Penguin/Frog model of an F4F which I made in a hotel room in Belfast N. Ireland between January and the end of April in 1946. TThe fact that IPMS gets or takes some credit is a non event. What they did was establish local, regional and National contests with rules for the entrance of various models whereby modelers could compete in a relatively equal scheme. The variety of scales that existed from the early 1940's into the mid 60's was an abomination and deserved to die of its own stupidity. The members of IPMS established a body of people that ceased buying the weird and wonderful scale like 1/89th and 1/57th. THEY not the club were responsible for the change, but it was the IPMS "idea" that initiated the action. I was a member of the original IPMS UK when it started and changed over to the US branch in 1965. I still belong and also I'm a member of IPMS Canada for a number of years. I belong to Alamo Sqdn San Antonio and IPMS Houston. I believe it is wise to support and assist those who have helped me immensely over the years. I have built models for 65 years and plastics for 52 so I do have a bit of knowledge from which I speak. No flames.. Just information.. Since it is a bit off topic I must admit I also have a feeling for the lack of WW1 1/32nd machines> I have builtt every one, several times and the 1/28th as well. Some companies don't appreciate a good thing when they get it. Lee J. Mensinger New Braunfels Tx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:12:36 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <34B7D634.35F1@worldnet.att.net> Suvoroff wrote: > > There is a newly released Fokker D.VII, but it has major shape problems, > especially with the top wing. It appears to have been designed in the same > era as the other kits. > > Yours, > James D. Gray The Revell-Germany release is supposed to come with 1/32 Lozenge decals. How do they look? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:13:10 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Camo. vs. Nat. Marks. Message-ID: Sandy makes a good point about the national markings and their locations vis-a-vis friend or foe, but I still must wonder about the similarity of camouflage of fof in the Italian campaign. Similar terrain on the western front did not breed similarities in camouflage between the French & Germans or British, yet all fought over the same terrain. Those combatants could not have had a more diverse range of color and shape in their respective patterns. Which makes the choice of the mottled earth-colors by both the Ital. & A/H more curious. I don't think that the coloration or camoufalge of WWI aircraft was not entirely devoid of vanity. There is a macho element involved that's very obvious. Just look at the signs & symbols & red spinners, etc. of so many aircraft from all participants (beg pardon, with the possible exception of the British). I don't think this chauvinistic assertiveness would allow enemies to display similar appearances. Matt Z On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Sandy Adam wrote: > > > > Dear Matt: Well, exactly! If the national markings schemes were truly > > derived on the basis of logic, then (as you said) the schemes of opposing > > forces within a region should be as much un-alike as possible, rather > than > > similar. > > Two different things here surely Patrick - camouflage to hide you and > Insignia to identify you. > For the first, as you say, you would expect similar schemes over similar > terrain. > But for the second you assume you have now been seen and wish to be > identified as FoF - so you make the markings as different as possible BUT > you position them where abd how the other pilot will expect to find them. > If this means inboard of elevators or stripes across wings, for both > parties - so be it! > Sandy > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:23:28 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Information needed Message-ID: On the Albatros D-III series was the horizontal stabilizer covered with plywood or canvas? I can't seem to get a clear answer based on my few sources. If the stab. was covered with plywood would'nt that eliminate the need for rib definition since the plane would be smooth across similar to the fuselage? I understand that the elevator was canvas covered & would therefore reveal ribbing underneath at least on the top surface. Matt Z ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:39:19 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980110203919.006c4990@philonline.com.ph> >>How about a survey? What types are available and from whom in 1/32? > >I think you named the only two 1/32 injection molded kits. >ID Models did a 1/32 vac Albatros D.V and Falcon a >1/32 vac Fokker D.VIII many years ago but I think that >was about it. How about the vacs by Marco's Miniatures? If I remember correctly they make an Albatros D.Va, Pfalz D.III, Roland D.VI, a Fokker D.VIII, and maybe some others. Wasn't there someone who came out with a 1/32 Fokker D.VII vac? I think I remember it being reviewed in FSM. And doesn't/didn't Tom's Modelworks make 1/32 vacs too? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:42:02 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <22420250335844@KAIEN.COM> Joey, Marco's Miniatures are in 1/24 scale. Bob ---------- > From: Joey Valenciano > How about the vacs by Marco's Miniatures? If I remember correctly they make > an Albatros D.Va, Pfalz D.III, Roland D.VI, a Fokker D.VIII, and maybe some > others. > > Wasn't there someone who came out with a 1/32 Fokker D.VII vac? I think I > remember it being reviewed in FSM. > > And doesn't/didn't Tom's Modelworks make 1/32 vacs too? > > > ********************************************************************* > > Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, > joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist > tel. (632) 921-26-75 > Metro-Manila, Philippines > > "The more you know, the more you don't know." > > ********************************************************************* > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:39:03 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Information needed Message-ID: <34B7F887.2734@worldnet.att.net> Matthew Zivich wrote: > > On the Albatros D-III series was the horizontal stabilizer covered > with plywood or canvas? I can't seem to get a clear answer based on my > few sources. If the stab. was covered with plywood would'nt that > eliminate the need for rib definition since the plane would be smooth > across similar to the fuselage? I understand that the elevator was > canvas covered & would therefore reveal ribbing underneath at least on > the top surface. > > Matt Z I believe it was canvas covered. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:08:10 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <34B7FF5A.4E1A@worldnet.att.net> Joey Valenciano wrote: > > > How about the vacs by Marco's Miniatures? If I remember correctly they make > an Albatros D.Va, Pfalz D.III, Roland D.VI, a Fokker D.VIII, and maybe some > others. > Marco (who lives not far from me) does his WWI stuff in 1/24. > Wasn't there someone who came out with a 1/32 Fokker D.VII vac? I think I > remember it being reviewed in FSM. I don't remember this, but I seen to recall a Fokker E.III? > And doesn't/didn't Tom's Modelworks make 1/32 vacs too? > I think this is so. BTW were you able to find Jacobs' D.II markings? John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:41:21 EST From: BStett3770 To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <78392d1a.34b81532@aol.com> Hi Tom's M/W did make some 1/32 vacs, all I remember is the Sopwith Triplane. They never sold very well , he discontinued them after a year or so. I believe that it was about 5 years ago or so. Keep Modeling Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:06:54 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980111090654.006b5614@philonline.com.ph> Hi John, >BTW were you able to find Jacobs' D.II markings? Yes, bothe the Fokker and the Albatros. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:06:48 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Camo. vs. Nat. Marks. Message-ID: <34B82938.68A@ricochet.net> Matthew Zivich wrote: > > Sandy makes a good point about the national markings and their > locations vis-a-vis friend or foe, but I still must wonder about the > similarity of camouflage of fof in the Italian campaign. Similar terrain on the western front did not breed similarities in camouflage between the French & Germans I respectfully beg to differ with you. If I recall correctly, the Germans changed their 'patch' green/brown camo to green/mauve because their machines had been mistaken for French aircraft on several occasions (early French schemes used drab grees/browns/khakis apparently similar to German schemes in distribution as well as color), resulting in air combat between friendlies. yet all fought over the same terrain. Those combatants could not have had a more diverse range of color and shape in their respective patterns. Mr. Broman mailed me a fascinating article (thanks BTW!) by Ian Huntley on the genesis of German schemes. It seems that the idea for printed lozenge evolved from the 'matchstick' schemes of 1915-1916, in which CDL finishes were supplanted by base coats of tinted varnishes covered with long separate brush strokes of brown or green, the end result somewhat resembling randomly dropped burnt matchsticks on uppersufaces of wings and fuselage. Photographic documentation of this scheme is very scarce, and it seems to have been largely confined to observation types, i.e. Albatros B-types and Hansa-Brandeburg C-types. >Which makes the choice of the mottled earth-colors by both the Ital. & A/H more curious. These 'home-brew' schemes may have been a function of their more modest industrial bases or an adaptation to an environment that was colored differently from that of the Western Front. I don't think that the coloration or camoufalge of WWI aircraft was not entirely devoid of vanity. There is a macho element involved that's very obvious. Boys will be boys, especially in a hypermasculine occupation such fighter piloting. >I don't think this chauvinistic assertiveness would allow enemies to display similar appearances. You may be projecting civilian sentiments onto military/idustrial complexes, which theoretically adopt policies based on efficiency rather than adversarial aggression. The appearance of military aircraft was and is largely dictated by a trade-off between the need to distinguish friend or foe while at the same time appearing as inconspicuous as possible. Different countries had varying theories on how best to economically effect these predator/prey imperatives, and they also had disparate resources (including pigmets,dopes,varnishes, etc. and methods of application) available to them. It is perhaps not surprising that we see so many different solutions to a seemingly basic problem when one considers the number of nations and individuals involved. Soap box off. Yours, Darius -- --------------------------------------- This e-mail has been brought to you by - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:14:36 -0600 From: "Paul R. Howard" To: "post wwi" Subject: Marco miniatures kits? Message-ID: <01bd1e36$a9c88540$2c868ece@default> Has anyone seen these kits? I've considered getting one or two of them , but a first hand view from someone who knows something about W.W.I aircraft, would make this a lot more likely to happen. The E.V got good reviews in FSM, but the picture of the built up model left me wondering; are the problems I see due to the kits or to the builder... (not that I can do any better) Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Cheers, Paul H ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:16:10 -0600 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: "ww1list" Subject: Sopwith Turtleback Message-ID: <199801110319.VAA21044@mail.primary.net> After reading the emails this week on making the small triangles on the turtleback here's how I did mine on the Eduard Pup. I cut two small triangular pieces of plastic from a sheet of .010 Evergreen styrene and glued them in place using Harry Woodman's article drawings as reference. Then filled behind the plastic with Dr. Micro putty when everything was dry sanded and painted - method worked great and much easier than re-scoring/replacing the entire turtle back. nb: Still rigging the AVRO 'D' nl: Planets nr: Fokker D.VII Anthology set wwi mail ack end Charlie Duckworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:15:41 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: RE: 1/32 WWI Aircraft Message-ID: <199801110315.AA03125@ednet1.orednet.org> >On Friday, January 09, 1998 10:02 PM, Bill Shatzer >[SMTP:bshatzer@orednet.org] wrote: > >> 1/28th scale apparently fit Revell's boxes nicely and so, >> 1/28th it was. We should, I suppose, be grateful that >> Revell at least did all four of its WW1 a/c in more or >> less the same scale (although the Camel is a little over >> scale compared to the other three) so that the models >> can be attractively displayed together. That was more >> the exception than the rule during the 1950's. > >Pardon my ignorance, but *four*? I've only ever seen three in that series: > the Camel, the Dr.I, and the Spad. What was the fourth, and can it be >had? The fourth is the Fokker D.VII kit which first appeared about five years ago or so - the tooling for this kit was, however, apparently first prepared in the '50's. Why, exactly, it took so long for the kit to finally appear, I don't know. And yes, it can be had - but it is not a cheap date. :-) Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 840 *********************