WWI Digest 836 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Help with F2A info by Shane Weier 2) Re: l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 2 by Charles Hart 3) Re: Toko kits by Patrick Padovan 4) RE: Bristol Fighter Question by Shane Weier 5) l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 1 by Dave Watts 6) l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 2 by Dave Watts 7) Re: Smer(Aurora)Hawk N.17 by Mick Fauchon 8) Re: Smer(Aurora) Rules by Mick Fauchon 9) Re: One More Done by "Paul R. Howard" 10) Re: l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 2 by John & Allison Cyganowski 11) Re: Help with F2A info by John & Allison Cyganowski 12) Re: Toko kits by mbittner@juno.com 13) Re: Smer(Aurora) Rules by mbittner@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:22:30 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Help with F2A info Message-ID: <199801072132.HAA03408@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hi all, Further to my post below: in which David asks: >>> Do any of the Australin gurus on the list know who built the F2A >>>which now resides at the ? Tweed Heads or Coffs Harbour RSL/ >>>SERVICES CLUB ? Robert replies: >>Well well, just now as I was searching for something else >>entirely I came across a little piece in WW Aero (No 140 May '93) about this >>model.Built by a couple of guys- Bob Gawne and Harry Lobb of Coffs Harbour.Says >>this 1/32 model was built from plans by Stair appearing in C&C (GB) Vol9 #2 ..and I add: > HENRY Lobb makes sense. He's definitely a ASSWW1AH member >resident in Coff Harbour. I don't recall what the article said >precisely, but I now vaguely recall it being a collaboration. Will look >further tonight The model IS made by Henry Lobb and Bob Gawne, as Robert and I combined to elicit. However it's not 1/32 but 1/16 (wow) in scale. It's pictured in Windsock Nov/Dec 95 and the accompanying article states that the interior detail includes such minutiae as correct fuel line layout. Now where do you get that sort of detail !! Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:27:20 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 2 Message-ID: >--=====================_884223871==_ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Find attached my article in progress. It will have several illustrations >in final form for clarity. Of particular interest, may be the latter part >of the article with details of Richtofen's guns. Any comments appreciated. >Dave W. >--=====================_884223871==_ >Content-Type: application/msword; name="l.M.G. 08 15 ArticleB.doc"; > x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="4D535744" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="l.M.G. 08 15 ArticleB.doc" <<<>> Please show a little consideration. For me this message was 45 k bytes worth of meaningless characters. Please don't sent attached files to this list server. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:33:55 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: Dear Matt: try the Hannants web site for Toko: I haven't checked since seeing your message, but Hannants was listing Toko in their future kits listings, so perhaps they have them available, now, as well. No idea what prices they're asking. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Bittner, Matthew (KTR) ~U wrote: > I just saw on Silverbird that the first two Toko 1/72nd injected kits > are out: the Pfalz D.XII and the SSW D.III/D.IV. > > Does anybody know of any other distributor for Toko? Silverbird has > been extremely bad about filling orders lately - Erik and I have been > waiting about 4 months for one. I saw where Meteor Productions is > starting to carry Toko, but are almost twice as much as Silverbird. > > Juan? Barry? > > > Matt Bittner > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:39:17 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Bristol Fighter Question Message-ID: <199801072150.HAA03468@mimmon.mim.com.au> Sandy, >Some time back you asked for Brisfit info and I volounteered a whole stack >of stuff which I carried off to my Edinburgh office and photocopied for you >and then asked you to send me your smail address. You never sent it. My apologies. Must've missed you somehow. >On a 1/48 elevator span of 40mm the four hinges appear at 6.5, 16.5, 26.5 >and 34.5 as measured from tip inwards. On a 1/48 aileron span of 47mm, the >two hinges appear at 21 and 32mm from tip. Thanks mate Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:43:02 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 1 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107164302.007e2910@192.168.0.5> Find attached my article in progress. It will have several illustrations in final form for clarity. Of particular interest, may be the latter part of the article with details of Richtofen's guns. Any comments appreciated. Dave W. P.S. View this message at full screen for correct spacing "Spandau" machine gun by David Watts With the escalation of aerial warfare in 1915, and resulting demand for alternative aircraft machine guns, the Army ordered that the reliable water cooled Maxim M.G. 08 be adapted, by the Kgl. Gewehrfabrik Spandau, (Government Arsenal Spandau), to an air cooled "aircraft" version. It was aptly redesignated, l.M.G. 08 "luft Maschinen Gewehr" (air machine gun), (on paper only, since the guns carried "on line" ordered M.G. 08 serial numbers). The total number of l.M.G. 08 "Spandau" production is difficult to estimate, since as stated, they didn’t carry their own l.M.G. serial numbers, and it is not known exactly how many aircraft were produced that employed them. Further lightening and refinement of the M.G. 08 resulted in the successive, M.G. 08/15, and planned production of the l.M.G. 08/15, with each model having its’ own designation, production orders, and serial numbers. It appears that the l.M.G. 08 continued to be produced into 1917, long after the superseding l.M.G. 08/15 was introduced and put into operational service. One could speculate this was to fill the high demand for aircraft guns, and have a continuity of supply to avoid any shortages. Therefore, both the 08, (for non strategic or home defense reserve), and the 08/15, (for front line duty), models were utilized. Both Maxims, continued to be manufactured, in water cooled form, by Spandau till early 1918, when they ceased production of the M.G. 08, and only made 08/15s, in M.G. and l.M.G. configurations. Regardless of the model, all Maxim aircraft guns were manufactured exclusively by the Spandau Arsenal, giving rise to their nickname "Spandau". Production of the "Spandau", l.M.G. 08/15, commenced in May of 1916, with an overall production in the range of at least 23,520 Maxim aircraft M.G.s by war’s end. Yearly totals are as follows; 1916; 2,800, (+/--600) 1917; 9,200, (+/--800) 1918; 11,520, (+/--220, and could be more) Since the production of the l.M.G. 08/15 was planned, sequential serial numbers were applied throughout, commencing with Nr. 1, (every part was stamped with, at least, the last two digits of the serial number, and possibly a letter suffix). Whether it was a carried over system originally initiated due to spatial confines, an Army directorate, or a particular trade marking practice, when the serial number would exceed four digits, (10,000+), the factory would utilize the letter suffix "a", (in italics), for example, 14,276 would translate to 4276a, and the same applied to (20,000+), which utilized the letter suffix "b", (in italics), for example, 21,852 would translate to 1852b. Observed l.M.G. 08/15 serial number ranges; low high 1916; 58 2198 1917; 3394 1795a 1918; 2217a 3520b Every l.M.G. 08/15 gun carried; The serial number; "1" through "3520b" (23,520), possibly higher The type; "L.M.G. 08/15." The manufacturing arsenal; "GEWEHRFABRIK SPANDAU" or "Gwf. SPANDAU" The year of production; "1916", or "1917", or "1918" The full serial number is most visually obvious, on the top lid cover, the top of the fusse spring cover, and on the left side of the gun above the fusse spring cover, (to a lesser degree on early to middle production, but quite obvious on late production). The size of the number in these locations varied depending on when the gun was produced, and/or in what number range it fell. The top lid, at first, carried only the serial number, (centered, 1 to 4 digits in length), deeply engraved in a large, (14.5 mm in height), type style font. Employed from 1916 to early 1917, with serial number 1 through 6500, approximately. XXXX (serial number will be 1 through 6500, approx.) The fusse spring cover, at first, was deeply engraved on the side, with the following, (enclosed in a oval), and was utilized from 1916 to early 1917, with serial number 1 through 6500, approximately. "L.M.G.08/15." "*SPANDAU*" "1916" or "1917" "GEWEHRFABRIK" The top of the fusse spring cover, was engraved, (by a vibrating tool), with the serial number, (1 to 4 digits in length), at first in a large, (14.4 mm in height), type style font. Employed from 1916 to early 1917, with serial number 1 through 6500, approximately. XXXX (serial number will be 1 through 6500, approx.) The left side of the gun, above the fusse spring cover, was stamped set with the serial number, (1 to 4 digits in length), at first in a small, (5.5 mm in height), type style font. Employed from 1916 to mid 1918, with serial number 1 through 7500a, (17,500), approximately. xxxx a ("a" may or may not be present, see below) If the gun is a non "a", serial number, it will be 1 through 9999, if it is a "a", serial number it will be 1 through 7500, approximately. The second top lid variation carried, in addition to the serial number, (centered, 1 to 4 digits in length, and now larger, 10.3-11.3mm, in height), the information that was previously on the side of the fusse cover, (now being blank). Employed from mid 1917 to mid 1918, with serial number 6501 through 7500a, (17,500), approximately. XXXX "a" ("a" may or may not be present, see below) "L.M.G. 08/15." "Gwf." "SPANDAU." "1917." or "1918." If the gun is a non "a", serial number, it will be 6501 through 9999, if it is a "a", serial number it will be 1 through 7500, approximately. The second variation, of the fusse spring cover top serial number, (centered, 1 to 4 digits in length), has a larger, (15.4 mm, in height), similar type style font. Employed from mid 1917 to mid 1918, with serial number 6501 through 7500a, (17500), approximately. The letter suffix never appears with the fusse spring cover, top serial numbers. XXXX (serial number will be 1 through 9999) The second variation serial number, (1 to 4 digits in length), on the left side of the gun, above the fusse spring cover, was deeply engraved with the serial number in a large, (15 mm in height), type style font. Employed from mid 1918 to war’s end, (and possibly later), with serial number 7501a, (17,501), approximately, through 3520b, (23,520), and probably higher. XXXXa (may be "a" or "b", see below) If the gun is a "a", serial number, it will be 7501, approximately, through 9999, if it is a "b", serial number it will be 1 through 3520, and probably higher. The third, top lid variation carries a smaller, (5.5 mm in height), type font, serial number, (centered, 1 to 4 digits in length), and the letter suffix follows immediately after the number. Employed from mid 1918 to war’s end, (and possibly later), with serial number 7501a, (17,501), approximately, through 3600b, (23,520), and probably higher. "xxxxa" or "xxxxb" (may be "a" or "b", see below) "L.M.G. 08/15." "Gwf." "SPANDAU." "1918." If the gun is a "a", serial number, it will be 7501, approximately, through 9999, if it is a "b", serial number it will be 1 through 3520, and probably higher. The third variation, fusse spring cover top serial number, (1 to 4 digits in length), has a smaller, (5.5 mm in height), type style font. Employed from mid 1918 to war’s end, (and possibly later), with serial number 7501a, (17,501), approximately, through 3520b, (23,520), and probably higher. There is no letter suffix on the fusse spring cover top serial numbers. xxxx If the gun is a "a", serial number, it will be 7501, approximately, through 9999, if it is a "b", serial number it will be 1 through 3520, and probably higher. The following information will assist, through recognition of progressive changes of specific components, in the identification of approximate gun number ranges and production dates of l.M.G. 08/15s, and to confirm whether or not a particular gun has correct corresponding matching parts. The "crotch" and guide ends, of the side opening, at the left side of the receiver, where the crank assembly reciprocates or cycles, (beneath the fusse spring cover), was prone to excessive wear or damage. They remedied this on later production guns by reinforcing this area with a gusset or second layer piece secured with flush filed rivets. The fusse spring cover was notched, at the top rear, to accommodate this gusset, and this notch is visible, differentiating it from the first style. The first style, without the notch, was employed on serial number 1 through 7500a, (17,500), approximately. The second style, with notch, was employed on serial number 7501a, (17,501), approximately, through 3520b, (23,520), and probably higher. There are two different versions of feed blocks, and these are visually evident from a distance. The first version, on the right side, (above where the ammo belt feeds in), rolls, or is curved down. This was employed on serial number 1 through 3000, approximately, which would be till the end of 1916. The second version, curves upward, forming a ridge, making for a hand hold, and acting like a funnel for the ammo belt. This was employed on serial number 3001, approximately, through the last production at war’s end, (serial number 3520b, (23,520), and probably higher). There are two different types of "bare" gun ring sights, that attached directly to the gun. Both types appear to have been utilized throughout the war. The first type was the cross hairs, "+" in a metal ring, on the end of the gun. The second type was the inverted v, " ^ ", in a metal ring, on the end of the gun. There were other various types of "external" sights fitted in the field. These were normally mounted between the two guns. Some employed a tube and a central cross ring, others were truly more advanced, such as the reflex sights. There are other components, that changed, such as the two variations of channels, for lid tangs, that keep the trigger lock down. Further discussion of these components, will not be discussed, since they are not readily visible, or identifiable. Normally, the machine guns were not fitted with rounds counters. When fitted, they were one of three types, (and possibly more). All types are set, by the pilot, or maintenance crew, to how many rounds you are carrying, and the counter would then count down until reaching zero, enabling the pilot to know precisely how many rounds he has remaining. All types mounted to the rear of the guns, so as to be visible, immediately in front of the pilots face. It is not evident which type was first, and it is possible that some were fitted in the field by the Jagdstaffel’s gun armourer, that serviced the weapons. One rounds counter, is a clock type, manufactured by Wilhelm Morell, Lepzig. The face of the counter is circular with numbers, 1 - 9, around the edge, but in reverse order of a clock. There are marks between the numerals, demarcating increments of 10, with the central mark being larger, and the numeral marks being largest. Each increment represents 10 rounds of ammunition. This gives the counter the potential of counting down 999 rounds. Another type of rounds counter is a square box on a arm with three open "windows" in a row, with a number, 0 - 9, visible in each "window". Its’ system reminds you of a slot machine, with numbered wheels that spin around, but this of course is not random, it is interconnected through gears, so as to count down when actuated. This gives the counter the potential of counting down 999 rounds. A third type of rounds counter, (observed by photograph only, with the hand pointing to 520, approximately), is a clock type, (similar to the type previously described, and possibly a predecessor, also manufactured by Morrel), with numerals 1 - 12, reading in a counter clockwise order. This gives the counter the potential of counting down 1200 rounds. All counters are actuated, upon firing the gun, by the reciprocation of the crank assembly. There were several versions of ejector systems that were employed by the SPANDAUs. The application of any particular ejector system, was dependent upon the particular type of aircraft, the gun was fitted to. On many Fokker aircraft, the guns were mounted up, on the deck. This allowed the empty cartridge casings to eject out of the gun, (normally with the use of a small chute), and simply tumble away in the air stream. Many Fokker Dr.I’s were fitted with various types of curved chutes, (some long, some short), but there doesn’t appear to be any "standard" issue designed chutes, resulting in each one being a little different. Herman Goering had deflectors installed, on his all white Fokker D.VIIF 5125/18, to prevent the casings from hitting him in the face. This very well may have been a field modification, installed at the front. On some Albatros and Roland aircraft, for example, the guns were "buried" in the fuselage, and the casings needed to be routed out, via tubes and chutes. The fitting of either tubes, chutes, tangs, spoons, deflectors, etc. was not altogether standard. Analyzing all the specific types of various ejector systems, and as to what aircraft they were employed, would be a book in its’ self. There were three major versions of "Durchladehebel", or "cocking handles", that were employed on the SPANDAUs. The first standard basic cocking handle that appeared on the earliest SPANDAUs was simply the standard issue M.G. water cooled gun, cocking handle. It was a solid round ball, at the right side of the gun, that would be levered up and forward, to charge or clear the gun. The second variation, employed in place of the round ball, was a hollowed, larger cupped shape, (like an enlarged metal acorn cap on edge), that could more easily be palmed and levered forward. Both variations appear to have been employed till the war’s end. It appears that the use of the solid circular balls was more often employed in combination with the second major version of cocking handle - the cockpit pull handle. When the gun was not easily reached, to be charged, or cocked, such as the case on certain models of Albatroses, or Rolands, where the guns were "buried" in the fuselage, they were cocked through the use of a "cockpit pull". The pull handles, in the form of a vertical tube or a cross "T", were made of steel tubing, and worked via a linkage system. The third major type of cocking handle, is the long high cocking lever. This type makes it easy for the pilot to cock the gun, by means of pulling back and down in an arcing motion, afforded by the extra leverage provided by the extended handle. These were utilized where it was easy for the pilot to have access to the guns, such as on the Fokker Dr.Is, (late), and Fokker D.VIIs. I have observed two variations, an early fully machined type, with seven varying sized "lightening" holes in the handle, hallmark stamped with a four leaf clover, and a later cast machined type, with one cast lightening hole, and one drilled hole in the handle, and hallmark stamped with two squirrels back to back above the letters, "C.E.", and a four leaf clover. Different Fokker Dr.Is have been observed in photographs, utilizing the three various types of cocking handle systems. Even though all these systems were available, it really depended on the specific type of aircraft application, and the requirements of the gun installation, as to what type of system was employed, although there are no fast rules. All of the systems continued to be utilized till the war’s end. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:43:28 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 2 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107164328.007c2100@192.168.0.5> The downing of Roland Garros’s Morane Saulinier on April 18th, 1915, fitted with interconnected triangular metal deflectors to protect the propeller from the stream of machine gun bullets, spurred the ongoing work of Engineer Heinrich Lubbe, (in the employ of Fokker), in the development of a reliable system to enable the firing of a machine gun, through the arc of the propeller. Soon after seeing the "Garros" system, "Fokker" was successful in solving the synchronization problem. With the first system, "Gestangesteuerung", the pilot would push the "trigger", engaging the final "key" of a moving drive system of push rods, levers, and motor driven cams, to set the machine gun into action. This soon evolved into an improved version, "Centralsteuerung", where the pilot would push the "trigger", engaging a "clutch", setting into motion a drive system, (via a gear box connected to the camshaft or crankshaft of the motor), to fire the gun. Subsequent patenting, and mediating with Idflieg, (Inspectorate der Fliegertruppen), nearly gave Fokker a monopoly, (an exception was Werkmeister Hedtke at Albatroswerke, who had developed his own system, "Hedtkesteuerung", which was utilized through August, 1917, on Albatros D.I - D.III aircraft. The system evolved into the "Semmler Steuerung" system, and was employed by the Albatros D.III and D.V, but, of course, later in the war, Albatros no longer built large quantities of Albatroses, by order of the Army in March of 1918, they built Fokker D.VII’s under license). The production of all of these associated aircraft machine gun parts was carried out at "Fokker-Flugzeug-Waffen-Fabrik", ("FWF"), in Berlin-Reinickendorf-Ost. This may make sense, when you consider that the Kgl. Gewehrfabrik Spandau, (Spandau Arsenal), producing Maxim machine guns, is also near Berlin. One supplementary component, (that appears to have been exclusively manufactured by FWF), is a type of gun safety, that mounted on the butt plate of the gun. This is a simple device, consisting of a flip lever handle, (mounted on a cast aluminum base with raised letters "S" for sicher, above "F" for feuer), that raises, (and lowers), the crank assembly arm approximately 20mm, which in turn slides the lock, (firing device), back, away from the trigger slide. In this "safe" position, if the "trigger" was accidentally pushed during the priming of the motor, with the mechanic pulling the prop through, the gun could not be discharged, (and with a Mercedes, a mechanic would be lying across the cowling directly in front of the machine guns, holding the compression release handle). By no means did all aircraft machine guns employ this type of safety. As with the cocking or charging systems, where guns were mounted out of direct reach of the pilot, (such as the case on some Albatroses), they didn’t have butt mounted safety devices. I am not certain what safety system they did employ, but suppose it would have been fitted to the hand "trigger" on the control stick column. On early Spandaus, when the ground crew would charge and ready the machine guns, they would feed the ammo belt in, from the right to the left, and pull it through the feed block until they heard a click, halfway charge the gun with the cocking handle, tug the belt with the first round, (or bullet), until the round "clicked" into the centered position of the feed block, than finish the cocking stroke. Now the lock, or trigger device, has "picked up" a round. Next, they would repeat the exact same steps, so as to put the first round into the barrel, and pickup the second round. (If this procedure were repeated, the lock would eject the first round, put the second into the barrel, and pickup the third). Now the gun would be prepared, and when it was fired, the recoil of the barrel would self charge the gun, and, most importantly, auto advance the ammo belt. A problem that pilots experienced with the operation of the early Spandaus was, when they encountered a gun stoppage, due to a dud, and recharged the gun with the cocking handle, the ammo belt was apt to drop away, and fall into the ammo box, effectively, rendering the gun useless. (Actually, when repeated, this was the way that the ground crew would clear the ammunition out of the gun). This would occur, since the gun barrel did not reciprocate, and advance the ammo belt, (recall how the mechanic had to tug the belt and round, into the proper feed block position), and therefore, there was not a round for the feed block to hold onto, and the belt would drop away, due to the effect of gravity. By the end of 1916, two things were done to remedy this situation. First, a feed pawl, with a "finger", was incorporated into the design of the feed block, to aid in holding onto the next round, and consequently, the ammo belt. Second, a base, fitted with a hinging arm, (first version), with a steel roller on the end, that could flip towards you, and flop away from you, was installed on the right side of the gun. Termed a "Kurbellagerbock", or "Segenhebel", it was manufactured and sometimes stamped with a hallmark, by "FWF", "D.R.P.A." or "C.LINDSTROM". On the center of the cocking arm, a sloped cam, termed a "Kurvenstuck", was fitted. If you flipped the arm towards you, and then cocked the gun, the cam would engage the roller on the end of the arm, and cause the entire slide crank assembly to move back, just as it does when the gun is fired. In other terms, it’s a way to cause the feed block to advance the ammo belt, and not loose or drop it into the ammo box. When the arm was flopped away from you, the gun would behave just as it had before, and therefore would allow for the clearing, or emptying, of the gun by the ground crew. There in lies the fault that was found with this version. Pilots in the heat of battle, would sometimes inadvertently, flop the arm away from themselves, and cock the gun, so as to clear the "dud" and load a hot round to continue firing, but they had actually ejected the dud, and removed a round from the ammo belt, allowing the belt to drop away. When they went to push the trigger, they would only get one shot, the shot they had last removed from the belt. This reduced the situation to how it had existed before, when there was no device fitted to the gun. As a stop gap remedy, they riveted the arm in the flipped towards the pilot position. There are two variations of the flip-flop, the first has a short ball handle to grasp when flipping or flopping the arm, (which may have proved difficult to grasp with gloves on), the second has a much longer arm handle extending out, making it much easier to operate. The second evolved version of this flip-flop device, was a cast bronze arm and base, all in one piece, (no longer allowing the flip-flop motion), but retaining the steel roller on the end. Cocking or charging the gun in this configuration was quite difficult, since you had to lever the cocking handle forward and fight the tension of the fusse recoil spring. The fusse recoil spring would pull the slide crank assembly forward, after the gun had been fired, completing the triple action cycle; fire, reload, eject. By varying the tension of the recoil spring, you could adjust the rate of fire of the gun. There is a fusse spring cover on the left side of the gun with a scale displaying the rate of fire adjustment, ranging from "0" to "700" rounds per minute. I have often observed in photographs, that the guns were normally adjusted to "430", approximately, rounds per minute. Having personally fired these guns, free standing, I can state that at this adjusted rate of fire, the gun operates quite smoothly, and has very little recoil, with the weight of the weapon and the recoil spring absorbing most of the kinetic energy. A third, entirely new method of cocking the gun, (that would alleviate the pitfalls of the earlier systems, and allow for ease of operation in charging the gun), was realized in the "Durchladehebel" or high cocking lever. This system did away with the roller arm and cam system. Instead, it has a spring retained, high long cocking lever, with geared teeth (in an arc), at its’ base, that hinges on a base, attached to the side of the gun. When pulled, with modest effort, back towards the pilot, the teeth engage counter meshing teeth, on a ring mounted around the center of the cocking arm. This causes the cocking arm to actuate, and simultaneously, forces back the slide crank assembly, effectively, advancing the feed block mechanism, and the ammo belt. As stated before, the type of system fitted to a particular gun, depended in most part, as to what particular type of aircraft, what particular type of installation, and to some degree, the particular tastes of the pilot. By the middle of 1917, the "Gestangesteuerung" system was superseded by the far superior "Centralsteuerung" system. Throughout the development, evolution, and refinement of the Centralsteuerung system, there were several versions of firing devices, termed as "Abzugsvorrichtung" or "Sicherheitsabzug", produced. These are the devices that are fitted to the bottom of the machine gun, where the hand grip and finger trigger on a "trench" field gun are normally found. They can be loosely described as shafts, with cams or lobes, that when driven by a flexible drive cable, fire the gun. The early type would fire the gun with a lobe, once for every full rotation of the drive cable, later this was upped to twice, and finally to four times, (by the means of a four bladed impeller and balls, the balls would not allow the gun to get stuck in the "fire" position, when the drive is disengaged). The tachometer and machine gun drive cable(s), are propelled by a gear box, mounted on the motor. On a Daimler Mercedes motor, the tachometer/machine gun gearbox, was driven, directly by the overhead camshaft. The rpm output, of the gearbox, is a 1:1 ratio for both the tachometer and machine gun flexible drive cables. The camshaft turned at 5 times the speed of the crankshaft. This meant that the gun is "firing", (having the "trigger" depressed), 20 times, for every full rotation of the prop. The actual rate of fire depends on the rate of activation of the "trigger", and the adjusted rate of fire via the spring tension on the gun. Adjustment, of the mounting of the machine gun flexible drive cable, would control when the gun would fire, or in other words; to assure bullet clearance of the propeller, you would adjust the firing of the gun, something like, when you adjust the valves on a motor; first rotating the crankshaft to top dead center, then setting your valve clearance with a feeler gauge. In this case, you would rotate the propeller to the point where a bullet would just clear the trailing edge of the propellor. This would be the point that you would want the gun to first fire, and you would want to secure the drive cable in this position setting. The one end of the flexible drive cable was fixed directly to a clutch bucket on the motor gear box drive. The other end of the flexible drive cable would attach to the firing device, on the bottom of the machine gun, via a coupling. This is where the fire position setting can be adjusted The earlier version of the "Sicherheitsabzug" or firing device, (that employed the four bladed impeller/ball system), utilized a round disc or flange with 18 holes along its’ perimeter, allowing for the selection of 9 different settings of adjustment. This must have proved to be have been lacking, for on the later version, they employed a system, where the coupling had a cross screw, and when mated with its’ counterpart, (consisting of cross threads on the input shaft of the firing device), gave "infinite" settings of adjustment. These devices can often be found, still mounted, on the guns surviving today. There were several types of ammunition belts tried and utilized throughout the war, but it appears the one most often employed was the cloth belt type. There has often been a mistake made in describing the type of belt that was used with the l.M.G.s. The water cooled, "trench gun", M.G. 08 and M.G. 08/15, utilized a cloth belt, (40mm wide, approximately), with brass spacers, (39mm long, approximately), between the bullets, secured with three brass eye rivets. Every third brass spacer was different, having a tang with a tab on the end, (60mm long, approximately), (also the first two spacers on the belt were the tang/tab type). These tang/tab spacers were designed for the purpose of proper feeding through a hand operated reloading machine, (it looks like meat or sausage grinder). The Parabellum machine gun, first used by Fokker for his demonstration of a machine gun firing through the propeller of a M.5K/MG Eindecker, utilized a different type of ammunition belt. The belt was narrower, (30mm wide, approximately), with brass spacers, (27mm long, approximately), between the bullets, secured with two brass eye rivets. There are no extended brass spacers, as present on the Maxim M.G. belt. The belts may have been hand loaded, which may be desirable, so as to maintain high quality standards, to avoid fouling in combat. I am certain from photographic evidence, and a aluminum ammo belt discharge tube, in my possession, (ID, interior diameter of 38mm, too small for the Maxim belt), that l.M.G. 08s and l.M.G. 08/15s utilized the "Parabellum" ammunition belt. When machine guns were sent to their assigned infantry units, they were shipped inside of their "armourer’s box", with spare parts, that were hand fitted to that specific gun. The guns would be shipped to the unit’s designated armourer, in their boxes. Responsibility for the maintenance, and organization of the spare parts, and machine guns was the armourer’s. Although it seems logical, I was never certain as to the disposition of the aircraft guns and their boxes, until recently, when I inspected, (via photos), a armourers box for a l.M.G. 08/15. There was a partial identification label tag on the interior of the lid. It listed the type of l.M.G., "08/15", the Nr., "8859", the Flugzeug (aircraft) Type, "C. IV", and Nr., "6538/18", all filled in by hand. The box was empty, so I can only speculate as to exactly what it contained. Certainly, it contained the l.M.G. 08/15, (with a "a" serial number, 1918 production), two gun ring sights, three gun barrels, three flash hiders, two spanner/hammer combo tools, flexible drive cable, firing device, clutch bucket (that attaches to the MG gear box drive on the motor), two locks (triggers), recoil spring, cleaning brush, cartridge retrieval tongs, and a broken shell extractor. It’s possible there may have been one more, of many of the listed parts, since the box had provision for the above parts, and the gun, that may have contained one of each of the listed parts. A report made during the war, illustrated the extreme wear of a barrels, caused from the loss of coolant from water cooled "trench" Maxims. It may be that, the air cooled Spandau gun barrels encountered heavier wear than the water cooled trench gun, explaining the presence of the number of spare barrels in the armourer’s box. The spare parts were hallmark stamped with, at least, the last two digits of the gun’s serial number, as was standard on the original parts. In addition to these numbers, was a letter system of employing capital letters, stamped or etched on the parts, for example I have observed locks, (triggers), with "A", "B", or "C", and have had reports of "D", and "E", but I would like to inspect them myself. I have observed barrels with "A", "B", and "C", but one must be careful, when inspecting these components, since many were remarked for home defense use in W.W.II. Many are familiar with the event that took place on the date of April 21, 1918. It was the day, that the "Red Baron", (Rittmeister Manfred von Richtofen), was shot down. You may be familiar with photographs taken shortly after, that show British officers inspecting the wreckage and machine guns of Richtofen’s triplane, Fokker DrI. 425/18. If someone wanted to verify the authenticity of Spandau "war trophy" souvenir parts, as being those from DrI. 425/18, they will want to consider the different variables involved. The Spandau gun numbers were recorded in the official British report as being "695" and "1795". In our first pool of "possible guns", we have three sets of possibilities; 695 / 1795, 695a / 1795a, and 695b / 1795b. I don’t believe the guns could be 695 /1795, since those were manufactured in middle to late 1916. We can immediately eliminate the 695b / 1795b set, since they wouldn’t have been manufactured till middle to late 1918, and Richtofen was downed on April 21st. We know the official acceptance flight for Fokker DrI. 425/18 was conducted on January 8, 1918. This indicates the guns were manufactured in late 1917, and this falls well within the observed gun serial number range for 1917; 3000 to 2000a approximately. Therefore, in my opinion, the guns, as recorded on 425/18, were 695a / 1795a. As to parts coming from "the" exact guns that were on board 425/18, that would be a bit more difficult in confirming. The reason being , as previously discussed, the contents of the armourer’s box, not only contained the gun, but numerous spare parts for that specific gun. There may be four different gun barrels stamped (A, B, C, and D), and three or more trigger locks etched (A, B, C, and D), for each of Richtofen’s Spandaus. At this time, without further information, it’s impossible to know exactly which barrel or trigger lock would have been onboard with Richtofen, on that fateful day. I theorize, one logical scenario for how the weapons were outfitted with the supplementary parts and drive systems. I have observed several photographs, taken at aircraft factories, (L.V.G., Fokker, Pfalz, L.F.G., and Albatros), where they have what they call, the "machine gun assembly" room. It appears that the machine guns are being outfitted with the cocking handles, (if fitted), firing drive systems, etc. The aircraft factories are not utilizing the same types of supplementary parts, although most are using the same type of firing drive systems. I believe this would make sense, since each particular aircraft type has its’ own particular machine gun requirements. This would lead one to conclude, that FWF, (Fokker Waffen Fabrik), in Berlin, did not get all the l.M.G. Spandaus, outfit them with safeties, cocking handles, belt advances, firing drive mechanisms, etc., and forward them on to the various aircraft manufacturers. Instead, they most likely supplied parts, to the different aircraft manufacturers, as to their particular needs and requests, and the aircraft manufacturers outfitted the machine guns. The machine gun(s), once fitted to the aircraft, were test fired. They were adjusted for shooting convergence range and height, and all settings locked in place. I theorize they then removed the gun(s) and placed them into their armourer’s box for shipping and transit with the aircraft to the air parks for reassemble and allocation distribution. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:41:21 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora)Hawk N.17 Message-ID: Ernest, > Did you know that the Smer Ansaldo SVA DOES NOT-repeat NOT have the > insignia embossed on the plastic? Because that's always been the > hemoroid in my modeling life too. Yair, that'd be right! About the only one in the range I don't need! 80) I did notice on a couple of the other Smer kits that they've made a sort of half-hearted attempt to remove the insignia. Cheers, Mick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:22:56 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora) Rules Message-ID: Matt and Joey, > > > You and Joey happy now? Grump! 80) > > I am, thanks. Good. That means you're both happy. May I now proceed to build the models for you? 80) BTW, I caved in and bought the Squadron-Signal book last night. More captured Ne.s appeared, and I'm still in the process of checking them out. You want the details when I'm finished? Or can I proceed on these on my own? 80) Cheers, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:27:37 -0600 From: "Paul R. Howard" To: Subject: Re: One More Done Message-ID: <01bd1bc3$d756bb00$31868ece@default> Sopwith Tripe turtledeck corrections are really no sweat. Use a razor saw to cut grooves across the deck at the appropriate stations. Use .010 guitar string, held in place by CA glue, to form the arcs of the formers. Use your preferred filler to fair in the newly inserted formers and that part is done. To fix the flattened area at the stab joint, just cut a piece of thin brass sheet to the appropriate upper profile, and use CA to hold it at the correct attitude. Filler can then be used to build up the area and sanded flat to the top of the shim. I'm hoping to start putting the wings on mine within the next month, but this of course depends on how long it takes to finish my He 2..... Good Luck and Cheers! Paul H -----Original Message----- From: REwing To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 12:25 PM Subject: Re: One More Done >Paul S. wrote; > ><< Finished up rigging the Eduard 1/48 Sopwith Triplane last night. Boy are > my eyes getting bad! A little touch up tonight should complete it. >> > > Thanks Paul for your comments. I was lookig at this just last night and >thinking about it as my next project. > Has anyone on this list attempted the correction to the turtledeck >suggested in Windsock. I've never done that kind of surgery before on a model >and I'm not sure if it is really worth it. TIA > >Happy Landings, >-Rick- > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:41:29 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: l.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU article part 2 Message-ID: <34B412A9.5EB6@worldnet.att.net> Dave, I am very interested in you Spandau article, but it seems to have been corrupted when I opened this message. John Cyg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:46:19 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Help with F2A info Message-ID: <34B413CB.7352@worldnet.att.net> Shane Weier wrote: > > Now where do you get that sort of detail !! > Oh! You mean to say that you haven't seen the 1/72 scale photo-etch eyelashes yet? John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:54:01 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: <19980107.175411.12990.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:31:36 -0500 Patrick Padovan writes: >Dear Matt: try the Hannants web site for Toko: I haven't checked since >seeing your message, but Hannants was listing Toko in their future >kits listings, so perhaps they have them available, now, as well. No idea >what prices they're asking. Thanks, Patrick! I'll keep surfin' over until I find something. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:53:18 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora) Rules Message-ID: <19980107.175411.12990.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:21:52 -0500 Mick Fauchon writes: > Good. That means you're both happy. May I now proceed to build >the models for you? 80) Well, kinda...and I can't believe you're going to build some 1/72nd models for us! I would have thought 1/48th - for your own collection! However, do what you want...;-) > BTW, I caved in and bought the Squadron-Signal book last >night. More captured Ne.s appeared, and I'm still in the process of checking >them out. Not a great book, but some good pictures. > You want the details when I'm finished? Or can I proceed on >these on my own? 80) No, you must supply the step by step process you went through, including corrections, the ferret, and how you painted it. Oh, yea, which brushes you use, as well!! Matt Bittner ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 836 *********************