WWI Digest 833 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: WWI digest 832 by "Denest, Michael J" 2) Re: Help with F2A info by huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) 3) Re: HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! by Ernest Thomas 4) Re: WWI digest 832 by The Shannons 5) WW I aircraft books by "CHARLES JOHNSON" 6) Re: HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 7) Re: WW I aircraft books by Bob Pearson 8) Re: WW I aircraft books by Charles Hart 9) Re: WW I aircraft books by Charles Hart 10) Re: WW I aircraft books by Ernest Thomas 11) Re: HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! by KarrArt 12) Re: Smer(Aurora) & Testors (Hawk) rules, but don't write off AMT. by KarrArt 13) Re: WW I aircraft books by Charles Hart 14) New Thread: Worst Pilot Award! by Matthew Zivich 15) Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by KarrArt 16) Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by TPT PUMPER 17) Re: WWI digest 832 by Patrick Padovan 18) Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by Charles Hart 19) Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by Bob Pearson 20) Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 21) Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by Charles Hart 22) RE: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) by Shane Weier 23) Re: New Thread/WWI Calendars by KarrArt 24) Re: Smer(Aurora)Hawk N.17 by KarrArt 25) Re: Smer(Aurora) Rules by Mick Fauchon 26) Re: Smer(Aurora)Hawk N.17 by Mick Fauchon 27) Book info.. by "CHARLES JOHNSON" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:44:26 -0500 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: WWI digest 832 Message-ID: <21A9C368581DD011986600805FEABAD4014A3CF5@xch-phl-01.he.boeing.com> Bill, where did this quote come from? I heard it somewhere but can't remember. It's making me crazy! Mike > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > > "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the > legend." > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:16:02 -0600 (CST) From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) To: wwi Subject: Re: Help with F2A info Message-ID: >Hi folks > >Having got to the stage where the decking needs to go on the Fuselage of >the Felixstowe, I've hit a problem - I've got no definitive information >on the layout of the instruments in the cockpit. > >If need be I can fudge it from typical practice at the time, but I'm not >sure of which way I should go in designing my own setup if this is >necessary. Might I take advantage of the list's collective knowledge and >wisdom and ask whether anyone has drawings or photos of the office, or >failing that, whether anyone has any special insights into the likely >arrangements? > If it is no problem, i could also use the same info. Thanks John H Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:19:51 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! Message-ID: <34B259A7.5D49@bellsouth.net> .. > > The sealing, whether or original cellophane or not, adds nothing > to the value of the kit for collectors' purposes. Modern > shrink wrap should, of course, be removed immediately and > the contents inspected - a re-sealed box may be concealing > missing or damaged parts or, in one case I heard about, nothing > but pieces of sprue and assorted loose parts from someone's > junk box. Even the original cellophane should probably be > removed and the kit inspected - if it was a defective kit from > the factory, it's a little late to write Aurora and ask for > a replacement part. > > Cheers and all, > > -- > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > > "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." Hey Bill Shatzer, Ernest Thomas here. I opened my '56 Aroura sopwith as per your suggestion and thankfully, all was intact. Must have been stored in a good environment because even the decals are still in mint condition. L8R. E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:58:17 -0600 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI digest 832 Message-ID: <34B262A9.5F73@ix.netcom.com> Denest, Michael J wrote: > > Bill, where did this quote come from? I heard it somewhere but can't > remember. It's making me crazy! > Mike > > > > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > > > > "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the > > legend." > > > > -- It's from the Glen Ford movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" starring the late Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Lee Marvin, James Coburn, and several others (Vera Miles? It's been a while). Anyway, at the end of Stewart's telling of the true story, the newspaper reporter stands up, tears his notes, and delivers that line. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:01:05 -0500 From: "CHARLES JOHNSON" To: Subject: WW I aircraft books Message-ID: <19980106170302.AAA6404@default> I need some help in regards to what is a good book with color plates and illustrations of ww i aircraft, today i ordered Janes fighter aircraft of ww i, but would like to get another good ref book, Is Munsons "fighters/scouts a good ref book,with illustrations,and at what price?? is it still in print??? any help would be appreciated thanks Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:11:14 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! Message-ID: <199801061711.AA06665@ednet1.orednet.org> Ernest Thomas wrote: >Ernest Thomas here. I opened my '56 Aroura sopwith as per your >suggestion and thankfully, all was intact. Must have been stored in a >good environment because even the decals are still in mint condition. >L8R. Surprisingly, for some reason, the Aurora decals seem much more durable than some of those provided by their contemporary competitors. I think it might have something to do with the preservative qualities of those wonderful sticky-sweet fumes given off by the Aurora plastics. :-) Can anyone who built Aurora kits as a kid forget the aroma of a freshly opened Aurora kit? Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:36:07 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books Message-ID: <17360740122987@KAIEN.COM> Charles, I don't have the Munson books, but some that I recommend for Colours are the following FMP works Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire by Martin O'Connor Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft by Grosz, Haddow & Schiemer The Imperial Russian Air Service by Durkota, Darcey and Kulikov French Aircraft of the First World War by Davilla & Soltan Victoria Cross-Airmen and their Aircraft by Alex Revell (with artwork by yours truly - I STILL haven't seen the book ) Unfortunately these are all on the expensive side, but are excellent references. The Apostolo/Bignozzi book Color Profiles of WW1 Combat Planes, although of impressive volume and containing excellent 5 view profiles, is less accurate in its depiction of the bulk of the profiles shown in just side views. The 1960s/early 70s series of Profile booklets also contain many excellent renderings. These will have to be checked against more modern references as to accuracy, but for the time represent an excellent resource. The various Albatros Products (Datafiles, Windsock, Specials etc) pick up where Profile left off and they now have 65 titles in the Datafile line with many others released as Specials. New colour books in the works are those on Jasta 5 by Greg VanWyngarden (I believe), British squadron colours by Les Rogers (artwork by yours truly again). The journal OVER THE FRONT also (usually) contains colour profiles on the rear cover, as well as articles on the markings of various units. If there are specific aircraft that you are looking for, I have 1100 1/48 profiles painted of WW1 aircraft of which close to 700 are now scanned and available by email. I have a list of all 1100 profiles if you would care for a copy. These aren't as detailed as those on the pease1.sr.unh.edu/Images/Pearson site, but they do form a decent reference (and the price is right). Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: "CHARLES JOHNSON" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: WW I aircraft books > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:06:17 -0500 > > I need some help in regards to what is a good book with color plates and > illustrations of ww i aircraft, today i ordered Janes fighter aircraft of > ww i, but would like to get another good ref book, Is Munsons > "fighters/scouts a good ref book,with illustrations,and at what price?? is > it still in print??? any help would be appreciated thanks > Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:37:36 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books Message-ID: >I need some help in regards to what is a good book with color plates and >illustrations of ww i aircraft, today i ordered Janes fighter aircraft of >ww i, but would like to get another good ref book, Is Munsons >"fighters/scouts a good ref book,with illustrations,and at what price?? is >it still in print??? any help would be appreciated thanks > Charlie There were a number of aircraft books authored by Ken Munson way back in the 1960's. These all had the format of small hardcovered books with 60 or so color plates, followed by slightly more pages of text, including a caption section for each color plate. There were two WW I volumes, one on fighters, the other on bomber & recce aircraft. Other volumes covered pioneer a/c, airliners, 1930s a/c, and of course WW II. Given the era in which the research was done, these are nice looking books but there is plenty about the color schemes depicted that is now known to be inaccurate. For example, when those book plates were prepared the true colors found on German lozenge fabrics and application patterns of said fabric were not widely known. Should you find one of the Munson WW I volumes, I wouldn't pay over US$15.00 for it. Given that the old Profile series may never be published again, it is surprising that the Munson plates have re-surfaced from time to time in a number of publications. About 10 years ago I found a book titled "German War Birds" (or words to that effect), the book contained all of the Munson plates depicting German military aircraft from WW I to the mid-1960s. Earlier discussions on this list have pointed up the deficency in WW I publications of one or two publications with good summaries of aircraft colors and period photos of said machines. The Janes book you have ordered is interesting, but it is a reprint of the volume they published all the way back in 1919, but it contains some interesting information from that period. Right now the publishing market on WW I aircraft and markings is dominated by Albatros Publications in the UK, maker of slick looking and over priced volumes about specific machines or units. At least now Flying Machines Press (FMP) is giving Albatros some competition, but FMP publications are in a price range all their own, particularly the hard cover books. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:59:19 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books Message-ID: > >The Apostolo/Bignozzi book Color Profiles of WW1 Combat Planes, although of >impressive volume and containing excellent 5 view profiles, is less accurate >in its depiction of the bulk of the profiles shown in just side views. This book is about 25 years old and difficult to find. >New colour books in the works are those on Jasta 5 by Greg VanWyngarden (I >believe), British squadron colours by Les Rogers (artwork by yours truly >again). Albatros Publications will publish a Jasta 5 book in their Fabric series. The author is Glen Merrill of Americal/Gryphon Decals. While he hopes to incorporate materials from the A.E. Ferko collection (Now at the Univ. Texas-Richardson Library) access to these materials is VERY restricted (current library policy, if you aren't Neal O'Connor or Peter Grosz forget trying to look at any of this stuff) which will probably delay publication of this volume until sometime in 1999. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:12:04 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books Message-ID: <34B273C5.12F6@bellsouth.net> Charles Hart wrote: > Right now the publishing market on WW I aircraft and markings is > dominated by Albatros Publications in the UK, maker of slick looking and > over priced volumes about specific machines or units. At least now Flying > Machines Press (FMP) is giving Albatros some competition, but FMP > publications are in a price range all their own, particularly the hard > cover books. > > Charles > > hartc@spot.colorado.edu Just FYI for everybody complaining about the high cost of WWI A/C ref. books. In case you haven't figured it out already, the reason those books cost so much is that the publisher has such a small market for them. Guys like us are the only people who will buy them. And we are a small minority, as anyone who has been the only entry in the 1/48 bi-plane catagory 4 years running can attest. It's also not cheap to print good color plates on quality paper. And if they sell 1000 copies, they're probably doing great. But on the upside, it seems our number are growing and things like this list and Eduard models will only help. Lets hope we can keep it going. Ernest. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:22:37 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! Message-ID: <70514577.34b27670@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-06 12:18:41 EST, you write: << Surprisingly, for some reason, the Aurora decals seem much more durable than some of those provided by their contemporary competitors. I think it might have something to do with the preservative qualities of those wonderful sticky-sweet fumes given off by the Aurora plastics. :-) Can anyone who built Aurora kits as a kid forget the aroma of a freshly opened Aurora kit? >> That sticky-sweet smell still hangs arounds! I've got a couple of Gothas for building purposes( a aKB and one of the semi-bootleg Auroras) but I have an original no-doubt-about-it early one and that smell still rises up when the box is opened.Also, one almost needs a blow torch to remove an old Aurora decal.Them there thangs was durable. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:22:35 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora) & Testors (Hawk) rules, but don't write off AMT. Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-06 03:16:49 EST, you write: << Ah, but the crappy AMT kit can be the basis for either a DH9 or 9A. I'll probably opt for the Ninack. Riordan >> Never tried it myself but I've heard of it being done.One could spend a lifetime doing versions of the DH4-DH9 family. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:33:08 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books Message-ID: >Charles Hart wrote: >> > Right now the publishing market on WW I aircraft and markings is >> dominated by Albatros Publications in the UK, maker of slick looking and >> over priced volumes about specific machines or units. At least now Flying >> Machines Press (FMP) is giving Albatros some competition, but FMP >> publications are in a price range all their own, particularly the hard >> cover books. >> >> Charles >> >> hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > >Just FYI for everybody complaining about the high cost of WWI A/C ref. >books. In case you haven't figured it out already, the reason those >books cost so much is that the publisher has such a small market for >them. Guys like us are the only people who will buy them. And we are a >small minority, as anyone who has been the only entry in the 1/48 >bi-plane catagory 4 years running can attest. It's also not cheap to >print good color plates on quality paper. And if they sell 1000 copies, >they're probably doing great. >But on the upside, it seems our number are growing and things like this >list and Eduard models will only help. Lets hope we can keep it going. > >Ernest. I heartily agree with your comments Ernest. This is asubject I have written about on this list on several occasions. Rumor has it that Windsock Datafiles have a press run of only 3000 copies. The press run for all of those fine looking volumes from Flying Machines Press is the same, 3000 copies. WWI modelers, historians and enthusiasts are a very small market. We are very, very lucky to have any publishers catering to us at all. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:39:23 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Thread: Worst Pilot Award! Message-ID: My vote for the worst molded pilot goes to the SMER, DH-2 pilot. Most homely chap ever created in plastic. Matt Z On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, KarrArt wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-05 22:54:42 EST, you write: > > << Actually, it's most woeful feature is the "pilot". > I'll quit now.....don't beat me more 80) > > > Sniff! Snivel! > > Mick. > >> > Ok Ok- I agree.That pilot is perhaps the WORST piece ever ever molded in the> history of mankind. > Robert > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:45:02 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: <16f78169.34b27bb0@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-06 13:34:36 EST, you write: << I heartily agree with your comments Ernest. This is asubject I have written about on this list on several occasions. Rumor has it that Windsock Datafiles have a press run of only 3000 copies. The press run for all of those fine looking volumes from Flying Machines Press is the same, 3000 copies. WWI modelers, historians and enthusiasts are a very small market. We are very, very lucky to have any publishers catering to us at all. Charles >> I've often wondered about the sales figures for various kits.Other industries publish sales charts, whether music,automobile or whatever.There is no comparable info for models.Something like the Billboard record charts.How many units constitute a "hit"?.I've read that Testors sold a million of their fake Stealth fighter some ten years ago.How many Tamiya HE219s were sold in the last 3 months?How many Hobbycraft Nieuport 17s? etc. just curious Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:38 EST From: TPT PUMPER To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: <8e6bc4d6.34b2869b@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-06 14:01:39 EST, you write: > I've read that Testors sold a million of their fake > Stealth fighter some ten years ago.How many Tamiya HE219s were sold in the > last 3 months?How many Hobbycraft Nieuport 17s? etc. > just curious > Robert Hi Guys! I read an interview with someone from Testors (in FSM?) where he said their fake "Stealth Fighter" kit is still the biggest seller in Testors' history. Right kit, right time. Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:46:51 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: WWI digest 832 Message-ID: Dear Mike: I think you mean "JOHN Ford movie," NOT "GLEN Ford movie," re "Man Who Shot Liberty Valance." Sorry to be anal, but that's a HUGE difference, IMHO. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, The Shannons wrote: > Denest, Michael J wrote: > > > > Bill, where did this quote come from? I heard it somewhere but can't > > remember. It's making me crazy! > > Mike > > > > > > > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > > > > > > "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the > > > legend." > > > > > > > > -- > It's from the Glen Ford movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" > starring the late Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Lee Marvin, James Coburn, > and several others (Vera Miles? It's been a while). > > Anyway, at the end of Stewart's telling of the true story, the newspaper > reporter stands up, tears his notes, and delivers that line. > > -- > This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon > at Shingend@ix.netcom.com > > History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:46:43 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: >In a message dated 98-01-06 13:34:36 EST, you write: > ><< I heartily agree with your comments Ernest. This is asubject I have > written about on this list on several occasions. Rumor has it that > Windsock Datafiles have a press run of only 3000 copies. The press run for > all of those fine looking volumes from Flying Machines Press is the same, > 3000 copies. > > WWI modelers, historians and enthusiasts are a very small market. We > are very, very lucky to have any publishers catering to us at all. > > Charles >> >I've often wondered about the sales figures for various kits.Other industries >publish sales charts, whether music,automobile or whatever.There is no >comparable info for models.Something like the Billboard record charts.How many >units constitute a "hit"?.I've read that Testors sold a million of their fake >Stealth fighter some ten years ago.How many Tamiya HE219s were sold in the >last 3 months?How many Hobbycraft Nieuport 17s? etc. >just curious >Robert Judging from some of the traffic on this list in the past few months, it sounds as though the likes of Skybirds and Sierra have difficulty selling even 100 to 200 examples of any of their kits. Given the labor involved and low sales volume, it is no wonder that Skybirds is giving up the ghost. FWIW circulation figures for OTF and Cross & Cockade International are about 1400 subscribers each. WW I Aero has about 2500 subscribers, but they are also not catering strictly to modelers. Windsock seems to be a bit of an unknown. I can't imagine that Rimell prints any more of a single magazine issue as he does the Datafiles. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:17:04 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: <20170450723380@KAIEN.COM> From: Charles Hart > FWIW circulation figures for OTF and Cross & Cockade International are > about 1400 subscribers each. WW I Aero has about 2500 subscribers, but > they are also not catering strictly to modelers. Windsock seems to be a > bit of an unknown. I can't imagine that Rimell prints any more of a single > magazine issue as he does the Datafiles. My nine year old subscription number to Windsock/Datafile is 1098/130, so how high are any new members up to? Granted there will be some who no longer subscribe, but we should be able to get a rough idea as to numbers involved. Also as Windsock is carried by some vendors, their numbers will be a bit higher than OTF or C&C. As for circulation and subscriptions, I had heard about C&C(USA) for years but had no idea where to contact them. I didn't know about OTF until I after I had subscribed to C&C(GB) via a UK magazine. So perhaps it would be an idea for these journals to advertise in some publication like WINGS/AIRPOWER or (shudder) any of the CHALLENGE publications (they do get bought). This way they would be seen by those with an interest in aviation, and perhaps also in WW1, but who have no idea of the existance of the various journals. At present it would seem that the only way for prospective members to find the WW1 journals is to stumble upon one, which then points you to the rest. Regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:57:19 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: <199801061126.FAA22159@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Bob, Could you list an address (and subscription rate?) so those of us on the list who are not well-informed could look into subscribing? Thanks! Paul > My nine year old subscription number to Windsock/Datafile is 1098/130, > so how high are any new members up to? > Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:16:43 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: >Bob, > >Could you list an address (and subscription rate?) so those of us on the list >who are not well-informed could look into subscribing? Thanks! > >Paul > >> My nine year old subscription number to Windsock/Datafile is 1098/130, >> so how high are any new members up to? > >> Bob Pearson Check the FAQ of this List's Web page. Windsock, C&CI etc, subscription information is all there. However, the FAQ needs updating with respect to Cross & Cockade International Their subscription address is: Membership Secretary, Cross & Cockade International 6 Cowper Road Southgate London N14 5RP England One year's subscription is GBP 19.00 (surface mail delivery to North America) (about US$31.00). C&CI accepts payment with credit cards to remove any hassles of currency exchange. Its an excellent journal and this is a very good price. Charles C&CI Member #3373 hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:41:35 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: WW I aircraft books(sales of kits) Message-ID: <199801062150.HAA27049@mimmon.mim.com.au> Bob ponders: >So perhaps it would be an >idea for these journals to advertise in some publication like WINGS/AIRPOWER >or (shudder) any of the CHALLENGE publications (they do get bought). This >way they would be seen by those with an interest in aviation, and perhaps >also in WW1, but who have no idea of the existance of the various journals. C&CI advertises in the UK modelling press - at least I have seen an advert. in one of them in the last few weeks. Maybe they're after the WW1 modelling fraternity - and they have me Shane (C&CI #5089) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:40:44 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: New Thread/WWI Calendars Message-ID: <5ddb069c.34b2a4df@aol.com> Hello Shane Thanks for the calendar info Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:42:27 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora)Hawk N.17 Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-05 22:54:42 EST, you write: << Oh, alright.....it's a good cowl.....once you hack the dreadful engine out of it. >> I'll tell you the way I look at it- after much dread and fear and loathing, I finally get down to the job at hand and I find that the monster task took maybe 5 minutes to do! IF that! I HATE making my own struts, but even when there's great gob of 'em to do( such as, oh say, 12 on a BE2, not counting the landing gear), if I just GET DOWN TO IT, the whole set is done in an hour or less. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:35:04 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora) Rules Message-ID: Matt, > What do you expect when you post these things to the list? Gads... :-) That was *exactly* what I expected....but maybe not with quite so much enthusiasm 80) The references are as follow: 1) Nie.11, test aircraft [?]: clear doped linen all over, except fwd of the trailing edge lower wing, where the panels *appear* to be clear- varnished plywood. Eiserne Kreuze in *8* positions, including both surfaces of upper wing. Cowling polished aluminium. All cable-run exits reinforced with large leather patches. Rudder white, as is ground to all Eiserne Kreuze. Nieuport aircraft of World War One/ J.M. Bruce. London: Arms & Armour Press, 1988. p. 11, pl. 14. 2) Nie. 17c, ex-60 Sqn. RFC, flown by Uffz. Paul B"aumer, Fliegerabt. 7. Aluminium dope all over, large stylised "7" fwd of fuselage cross, unclear whether cross appears on under-surface of top wing. Lewis gun retained on top wing. Cowling polished alumimium, cut away below for cooling, `a la Ne. 11/16. Outboard struts varnished spruce, with blue [or red?] binding tapes, all other struts doped aluminium, as are wheel discs. Rudder white with solid black cross, wing crosses appear to have no white outline, fuselage crosses outlined in white, "7" in black. Ibid., p. 26, pl. 47. There are other photos in the Squadron-Signal book, but I don't know how useful they are, and can't reference it, as I haven't actually bought it yet.....just sneaked a quick flick in the shop.....tsk-tsk! 80) Leffers' Nie.16, BTW, is also stock-standard, black crosses on white grounds, etc., *except* that the fuselage-mounted Vickers has been replaced by an LMG 08/15. Interesting! I can supply a reference if you need it. You and Joey happy now? Grump! 80) Cheers, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:55:12 +1100 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Smer(Aurora)Hawk N.17 Message-ID: Robert, > << Oh, alright.....it's a good cowl.....once you hack the dreadful > engine out of it. >> > I'll tell you the way I look at it- after much dread and fear and loathing, I > finally get down to the job at hand and I find that the monster task took > maybe 5 minutes to do! IF that! I'm not averse to *small* doses of pain.....but there is a limit to the amount I'm prepared to accept from one kit at one time. Cutting the engine of of the cowl of the Lindberg Curtiss Hawk II and refining the cowling took a *lot* more than five minutes. There are a lot of things I don't mind doing, e.g. reducing the Smer DrI to basic components just so you can have something to work on, and scratch-building the rest.......but I *despise* embossed decal-stations...I can't help it, it's been with me since I was a kid 80) A propos of which, I was interested to observe that Smer provided roundels [Czech? Russian?....I can't remember] with their Albatros. Roundels over heavily-embossed Eiserne Kreuze?! Cute! > I HATE making my own struts, but even when there's great gob of 'em to do( > such as, oh say, 12 on a BE2, not counting the landing gear), if I just GET > DOWN TO IT, the whole set is done in an hour or less. Getting down to it, as you point out, is the trick. Some things are easier to get down to than others 80) Cheers, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:48:44 -0500 From: "CHARLES JOHNSON" To: Subject: Book info.. Message-ID: <19980106225040.AAA7446@default> My thanks to all of those who answered my ques.abt good illustrated reference books. Im just getting back into the hobby after many years, and not being a man of great monetary means, i want to spend my money in the right place, the first time out. All of the folks on this list have been just terrific when it comes to answering my many questions, and i want to say Thankyou to all for making me feel welcome. Till the next question.. Charlie ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 833 *********************