WWI Digest 829

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Fokker D.VII
	by "Don RInker" <drinker@fast.net>
  2) Re: Nicknames (was Message kickbacks)
	by Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
  3) Re: Nicknames (was Message kickbacks)
	by mbittner@juno.com
  4) Re: Message kickbacks
	by "John Glaser" <JohnGlaser@worldnet.att.net>
  5) Re: Looking for Jane's
	by "John Glaser" <JohnGlaser@worldnet.att.net>
  6) Re: Fokker D.VII
	by "John Glaser" <JohnGlaser@worldnet.att.net>
  7) Re: Fokker D.VII
	by "Bill Ciciora" <wpc@wwa.com>
  8) DH9/Mercedes 160 query
	by Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
  9) Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 10) Re: Paint inter-reactions
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 11) Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
	by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
 12) Finishing kits
	by mbittner@juno.com
 13) Possible early French 3-color variation 
	by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
 14) Re: Kit of the Year
	by DavidL1217 <DavidL1217@aol.com>
 15) Re: Fokker D.VII
	by John & Allison Cyganowski <Janah@worldnet.att.net>
 16) Re: Possible early French 3-color variation
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 17) Re: Fokker D.VII
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
 18) Re: Finishing kits
	by KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
 19) Re: Looking for Jane's
	by Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
 20) Re: Paint inter-reactions
	by Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
 21) Re: Paint inter-reactions
	by Lee Mensinger <lemen@sat.net>
 22) Re: Paint inter-reactions
	by huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins)
 23) Re: Paint inter-reactions
	by Lee Mensinger <lemen@sat.net>
 24) Re: Paint inter-reactions
	by Suvoroff <Suvoroff@aol.com>
 25) Fwd Msg
	by "Leonard Endy" <lfendy@firstsaga.com>
 26) RE: Fokker D.VII
	by Shane Weier <SDW@qld.mim.com.au>
 27) Re: Looking for Jane's
	by "S.M.Sundberg" <sms@netins.net>
 28) Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
	by "CHARLES JOHNSON" <CEJohnsonJr@worldnet.att.net>
 29) CROSS & COCKADE JOURNALS ETC.
	by "Scott M. Head" <smh@iapc.net>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:09:50 -0500
From: "Don RInker" <drinker@fast.net>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII
Message-ID: <01bd1859$a37435a0$1399f5ce@default>

It;s probably a combination of several factors. The engine
and propconbination was really well matched. A recent
WW1 aero article on Javier Arango's  D-VII discusses the
extemely high thrust nature of a very large prop and the fact that
the torque and H.P. of the engine may be seriously underrated.

Add to this the very large profile ( thick) semi symmetrical nature
of the airfoil.  This is a fact in the Dr-1 , the D-VII and the E-V that
is usually never give serious consideration. In many cases, a  large
VOLUME of wing area is more important that area alone....

A combination of these factors would allow  an extreme high angle
of attack to be sustained for a long period. It's not exactly hanging
on the prop, but a slow forward mush right at the stall speed. I've never
had the oppurtunity to fly a D V-II, but have seen the Rhinebeck one
do something similar, and it's climbout after takeoff look like it on an
elevator many times with a bit of a headwind...


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Hackney <ghackney@iglou.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 10:40 PM
Subject: Fokker D.VII


>I've read in several places about the D.VII's ability to "hang by its
>propeller" and get good shots into the belly of enemy planes.  What is it
>about the D.VII that allowed it to do this?  It wasn't any lighter or
>better powered than other planes of the period.  Something about the center
>of gravity? Wing shape? Low stall speed? Or was this just a mis-perception
>and the Fokker wasn't able to stay nose-high any better than the other
>planes?
>Gary Hackney
>


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 07:24:41 -0800
From: Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
To: WW1 Mailing list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Nicknames (was Message kickbacks)
Message-ID: <15244164016706@KAIEN.COM>


Geoff wrote

>  Can anyone say why all list members don't get ALL bounces rather than
just
> their own sends? Let's hope this gets sorted when whomever returns to work
> or we're going to have to think about getting rid of Maryland.
>
> Now business, I've just been reading the first vol of "The Bandy Papers" =
> by
> Donald Jack ("Three Cheers for me")

The message is bounced back to the originating SENDER, which is why we are
getting our own messages back, but no one else is seeing this extra message.
If it was going to the list at large we would probably get another message
telling us the message saying philo@whatever didn't get the message saying
philo@whatever didn't get the message, which would lead to another message
going to everyone saying the same thing and so on. Which is why it is only
returned to the originating sender - at least that is my thought on it. All
I do now is delete the returned message as soon as it arrives.

Aren't the Bandy Papers something? I reread all 7 or 8 volumes of them on my
two-month trip across Canada in '96. The actual WW1 stuff ranks right up
there with Yeates Winged Victory, and it introduced me to the poor
under-rated Dolphin.

Regards,
      Bob Pearson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:23:28 -0600
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Nicknames (was Message kickbacks)
Message-ID: <19980103.093048.4302.0.mbittner@juno.com>

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 06:27:26 -0500 Geoff Smith
<GeoffSmith@compuserve.com> writes:

> Now business, I've just been reading the first vol of "The Bandy
> Papers" by Donald Jack ("Three Cheers for me") and halfway
> through is a reference to "Tin Whistles". I've never heard of
> this, somebody broaden my knowledge please about nicknames.

Well, looking at Tin Whistles from a musical standpoint, it is an
instrument, primarily used in Celtic music.  Since I asked for -
and received - one for Christmas, I'm starting to self teach
myself on how to play the tin whistle.

Tin whistle is also known as a penny whistle.

Maybe that's not what the author meant at all, and I'm just
blowing some extra notes around. :-)


Matt Bittner

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:30:55 -0600
From: "John Glaser" <JohnGlaser@worldnet.att.net>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Message kickbacks
Message-ID: <19980103153353.AAA28954@johng>

I've seen them too.  Although something goofy is happening when messages go
to the list.

				- John

----------
> From: John & Allison Cyganowski <Janah@worldnet.att.net>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Re: Message kickbacks
> Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 7:26 AM
> 
> Ernest Thomas wrote:
> > 
> > Attn; John C., John G., John K., Matt B., Gary H. and all concerned:
> > 
> > I've sent responses to you guys who have been helpful in some quereies
> > I've made in the last day or two but they seam(Freudian slip) to to to
> > have been kicked back. Let me know if the msgs got out there. Thanks.
> > 
> > E.
> > ethomas6@bellsouth.net
> 
> 
> I have seen your messages
> John Cyg.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:43:31 -0600
From: "John Glaser" <JohnGlaser@worldnet.att.net>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Looking for Jane's
Message-ID: <19980103154628.AAA5091@johng>

Gary:
	Except for one MAJOR problem (as previously posted) I've had pretty good
luck with amazon.com on the web. They have a good search facility on the
site by title, author, subject and ISBN.  FYI, the ISBN for Jane's WW1
Aircraft is 1-85170-347-0.  HTH.

					- John

----------
> From: Gary Hackney <ghackney@iglou.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Looking for Jane's
> Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 9:43 PM
> 
> Anyone know where I can get a copy of Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World
War
> One?  No one had any luck finding it for me for Christmas (although I did
> get lucky and receive four of the Munson books).  And if I find it, how
> much should it cost?  I'm in Kentucky and would prefer not to deal with
> overseas shipping.
> Gary Hackney

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:50:46 -0600
From: "John Glaser" <JohnGlaser@worldnet.att.net>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII
Message-ID: <19980103155343.AAA8730@johng>

Gary & List:
	FYI, there was a great article on flying the Fokker D VII written by the
late Jeff Ethell in the June 1997 Flight magazine.  BTW, books on the
Fokker subject note the real genius behind Fokker's great fighters was his
chief designer, Reinhold Platz.  Anyone know what happened to Platz after
the war?

					_ John

----------
> From: Gary Hackney <ghackney@iglou.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Fokker D.VII
> Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 9:42 PM
> 
> I've read in several places about the D.VII's ability to "hang by its
> propeller" and get good shots into the belly of enemy planes.  What is it
> about the D.VII that allowed it to do this?  It wasn't any lighter or
> better powered than other planes of the period.  Something about the
center
> of gravity? Wing shape? Low stall speed? Or was this just a
mis-perception
> and the Fokker wasn't able to stay nose-high any better than the other
> planes?
> Gary Hackney

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:54:55 -0600
From: "Bill Ciciora" <wpc@wwa.com>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII
Message-ID: <m0xoVvL-001SSDC@kani.wwa.com>

Gary asks:

>> I've read in several places about the D.VII's ability to "hang by its
propeller" and get good shots into the belly of enemy planes.  What is it
about the D.VII that allowed it to do this?  <<

<snip>

>> Or was this just a mis-perception and the Fokker wasn't able to stay
nose-high any better than the other planes? <<

My understanding is that the answer is somewhere in between. The D.VII
could not hang on its prop indefinitely, but did have nice departure
characteristics. IOW, when it departed controlled flight (stalled), it was
very forgiving in recovery. Consequently, pilots were not shy about zooming
at a higher enemy, taking a shot as the plane approached stall, and then
recovering from the stall. The perception was probably generated from
Allied pilots who wouldn't want to attempt the same shot in an aircraft
that didn't depart nicely, like a Camel. 


Bill Ciciora

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:01:16 -0800
From: Bob Pearson <bpearson@kaien.com>
To: WW1 Mailing list <wwi>
Subject: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
Message-ID: <16011642616739@KAIEN.COM>


Greetings All,

Well it is now time to get back to work on my FMP profiles and I find my
DH9s are lacking something important, to whit, the propellor. The drawings I
used only show this with triangular shaped blades in profile. Is this
correct, or what other a/c type is it similiar to.

I have also started working on some German Seaplane and Halberstadt D
profiles, but need a good drawing of a Mercedes 160, any help here would
once again be most appreciated.

regards,
       Bob Pearson

nl: CBC Radio

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 10:25:14 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
Message-ID: <34AE666A.544B@bellsouth.net>

Bob Pearson wrote:
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> Well it is now time to get back to work on my FMP profiles and I find my
> DH9s are lacking something important, to whit, the propellor. The drawings I
> used only show this with triangular shaped blades in profile. Is this
> correct, or what other a/c type is it similiar to.
> 
> I have also started working on some German Seaplane and Halberstadt D
> profiles, but need a good drawing of a Mercedes 160, any help here would
> once again be most appreciated.
> 
> regards,
>        Bob Pearson
> 
> nl: CBC Radio

Bob,

The book "Sacle a/c drawings Vol.1 WWI" has good drawings of that
engine. Also, I have photos of a real one which I think are getting
scanned for inclusion on Trent Tidmore's website. But I'm not positive
if he is going to use those particular photos( I sent him a BUNCH)
When he's finished scanning the ones he needs, He'll send all my
originals back to me. If the Merc. engine does not make it onto Trent's
wed site, I can lend you the photos when I get them back. 

Ernest.
ethomas6@bellsouth.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 10:30:33 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Paint inter-reactions
Message-ID: <34AE67A9.2A86@bellsouth.net>

Kevin & Kimberley Barrett wrote:
> 
> >>
> >>      Well, I just finished a model (off-topic, so I won't draw the odium of
> >> the group by saying what) and it is the first thing I have ever done in
> >> waterbased paint, to be specific, the new Poly Scale paints.  Now I am
> >> concerned, what will happen if I spray Dulcote over the Poly Scale?  I have
> >> read too much about bad interreactions with different media and I am
> >>scared of
> >> the paint wrinkling up on me or the model catching on fire (a joke, kind of)
> >> or something bad like that.  So have other people done this, and if so with
> >> what degree of success?
> >>
> >> Yours,
> >> James D. Gray
> >>
> >> nb:  Eduard Alb.DV
> >
> 
> James,
> 
> All of my models use this combination (Polly S -or waterbased- paint with
> Dulcote over top), and I've had no problems. However, recently, I've
> sprayed some gloss on first before decal application to get them to lie
> down properly. Spraying Dulcote on after this has caused some problems for
> me as a weird cloudy "mottling" effect covers the model as the Dulcote
> dries. Very bad after spending so much time on the finish! I'm still trying
> to figure this one out, and experimenting a lot. If anyone else has run
> into this problem, I'd appreciate their solution (other than going to
> future floor wax or alternate "dullcote" covering}. I will try floor wax
> eventually, but I'd like to know if my spray combination will work first.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kevin Barrett.

Kevin,

I'm not sure if you are describing a "frosting" effect that comes from
too much moisture or this other "Mottling" effect that I've experienced.
If it's the "frosting" effect, I've found that you can spray a second
coat before the first one cures and let this dry in a low moisture
environment( like in front of a A/C vent). Hope this helps.

E.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 10:45:38 -0800
From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
Message-ID: <34AE8752.288C@ricochet.net>

Bob Pearson wrote:

> I have also started working on some German Seaplane and Halberstadt D
> profiles, but need a good drawing of a Mercedes 160, any help here would
> once again be most appreciated.


All the library can offer are the the old Wylam drawings from the Model
Airplane News book. Just say the word & they're yours.
 
---------------------------------------
This e-mail has been brought to you by
  - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin -
   *****************************
       Great Gift Ideas at
     Jewels of the Silk Road
   http://www.silkroadjewels.com
   *****************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:49:13 -0600
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Finishing kits
Message-ID: <19980103.124914.4270.0.mbittner@juno.com>

One of the greatest feelings for me when finishing up a kit is cutting up
the left over sprue and throwing it away.  Plus, when I crush up a kit's
box for recycle, it gives me a feeling of accomplishment almost as much
as putting the finished kit on the shelf.


Matt Bittner

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 11:05:12 -0800
From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Possible early French 3-color variation 
Message-ID: <34AE8BE8.6FCF@ricochet.net>

As I neared completion of a Smer Nie.11, I started looking closely at
the FMP and misc. refs. I relocated a picture of a captured 11 (N1135)of 
Escadrille 26 standing on its nose on pg 46 of the Phoebus Fighters of
WWI book (this one is not completely worthless). Noticed at least 3
different shades of color on the top plane. Then looked at the color
notes section of the Russian FMP book and found that there were more
than two colors listed for the early Nie.s received by the IRAS from the
French (why is there no section like this in the French book?). As well
as brown & green there was red-brown, olive, and khaki. I know this
apparent 3-tone finish of N1135 can be accounted for to some extent by
variation in paint batches, overspraying of colors, fading, photographic
processes, etc. but it also suggests a possible precursor to the later
5-color scheme, which I interpret as a brown or red-brown/green/khaki or
olive scheme.

Anyone for Smer construction notes?

Cheers,

Riordan     

-- 
---------------------------------------
This e-mail has been brought to you by
  - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin -
   *****************************
       Great Gift Ideas at
     Jewels of the Silk Road
   http://www.silkroadjewels.com
   *****************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:32:14 EST
From: DavidL1217 <DavidL1217@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Kit of the Year
Message-ID: <fa0673c1.34ae9240@aol.com>

My nomination for "kit of the Year" goes to the Skybirds Halberstadt trio
which could be viewed as one kit.  Runner up would be the Fredericshaven GII
and the 
Albatros CX.

I talked with Mike Eacock at Skybirds yesterday.  He advised that he MAY
continue to do kits on an unadvertised basis to BUILDERS (not collectors) if
he can get orders for 50-100 of a subject.  I suggested a 1/72 RE8 (I'd buy 2)
although it does not lend itself easily to the use of Strutz due to the wood
grain.   

He is still very disappointed with the flaming he received in Windsock on the
Fredericshaven.  Apparently, sales of this beaut are nowhere near breakeven.
He thinks the article had alot to do with it.  

Does anyone have a source for German WWI bombs in 1/72?  I have heard mention
of a Polish firm making P.u.W. bombs.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:37:25 -0500
From: John & Allison Cyganowski <Janah@worldnet.att.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII
Message-ID: <34AE9375.732C@worldnet.att.net>

John Glaser wrote:
> 
> Gary & List:
> BTW, books on the
> Fokker subject note the real genius behind Fokker's great fighters was his
> chief designer, Reinhold Platz.  Anyone know what happened to Platz after
> the war?
> 
>                                         _ John
> 

I do not know all of the details, but Platz lived at least into the
1960's.  He reportedly corresponded with the builder of the Champlin
Fokker D.VIII.

Cyg

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 13:44:01 -0600
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Possible early French 3-color variation
Message-ID: <34AE9501.7BCC@bellsouth.net>

Riordan and Michelle Goodwin wrote:
> 
> As I neared completion of a Smer Nie.11, I started looking closely at
> the FMP and misc. refs. I relocated a picture of a captured 11 (N1135)of
> Escadrille 26 standing on its nose on pg 46 of the Phoebus Fighters of
> WWI book (this one is not completely worthless). Noticed at least 3
> different shades of color on the top plane. Then looked at the color
> notes section of the Russian FMP book and found that there were more
> than two colors listed for the early Nie.s received by the IRAS from the
> French (why is there no section like this in the French book?). As well
> as brown & green there was red-brown, olive, and khaki. I know this
> apparent 3-tone finish of N1135 can be accounted for to some extent by
> variation in paint batches, overspraying of colors, fading, photographic
> processes, etc. but it also suggests a possible precursor to the later
> 5-color scheme, which I interpret as a brown or red-brown/green/khaki or
> olive scheme.
> 
> Anyone for Smer construction notes?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Riordan
> 
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> This e-mail has been brought to you by
>   - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin -
>    *****************************
>        Great Gift Ideas at
>      Jewels of the Silk Road
>    http://www.silkroadjewels.com
>    *****************************

I'd love some smer construction notes. TIA.

Ernest Thomas
ethomas6@bellsouth.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:47:31 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Fokker D.VII
Message-ID: <e49d547b.34aea3e6@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-03 10:56:34 EST, you write:

<< BTW, books on the
 Fokker subject note the real genius behind Fokker's great fighters was his
 chief designer, Reinhold Platz.  Anyone know what happened to Platz after
 the war?
  >>

The Platz thing was a bit of revisionist history dreamed up by AR Weyl.Peter
Grosz was somewhat of a protege of Weyl's in the 1950s and inherited his
papers and such.Weyl had some personal grudge against Anthony Fokker and took
the head welder- Platz- and turned him into the chief designer, thereby
robbing Fokker of credit. WW I Aero had a long piece by Grosz ( sometime in
the last couple of years)revising Weyl's revision.Having access to Weyl's
material, Grosz confirmed that Platz had nothing near the technical knowledge
required for aircraft design.He was a master welder.The article did go into
who was really involved in the design department.There was a hint in Grosz
writing that he was sad that his old mentor had turned out to be such a
dork!(my phrase- not his.I can't imagine Peter Grosz saying "dork")
BTW, Platz lived on into the late 1960s and did contribute some notes and
suggestions to (can't remember first name) Swearingen- the guy who built one
of the first accurate WW I replicas(repros?)- the Fokker D VIII that's now in
the Champlin Museum.
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:47:37 EST
From: KarrArt <KarrArt@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Finishing kits
Message-ID: <5becb47c.34aea3ec@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-01-03 13:55:35 EST, you write:

<< Plus, when I crush up a kit's
 box for recycle, it gives me a feeling of accomplishment almost as much
 as putting the finished kit on the shelf. >>

After attending various "collector" shows over the years, I'm almost afraid to
throw anything away.Crudely sliced out box tops are being offered for anything
up to $20- and this for kits of semi- recent vintage. And people are buying!
Geez, it's only a matter of time before some starts selling "rare collectors
sprue".
Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:19:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Looking for Jane's
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980103161446.23498A-100000@tardis.svsu.edu>

G.H,

Barnes & Noble bookstores are loaded with this book.  Where can you get 
the Munsons?  I'm only aware of Munson's "Fighter/Scouts", "Airships" & 
"2-seater/Obser.".  Is the 4th heavy bombers?

Matt Z

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Gary Hackney wrote:

> Anyone know where I can get a copy of Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War
> One?  No one had any luck finding it for me for Christmas (although I did
> get lucky and receive four of the Munson books).  And if I find it, how
> much should it cost?  I'm in Kentucky and would prefer not to deal with
> overseas shipping.
> Gary Hackney
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:37:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Paint inter-reactions
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980103162506.23498B-100000@tardis.svsu.edu>

	My experience has shown that lacquer will dilute acrylic based 
paints.  After completing a recent model with enamel and acrylic based 
paints on different parts I waited a couple of weeks before applying a 
semi-gloss lacquer, final overall coating.  The parts that were painted 
with the acrylic paints began to "lift" and bleed into the adjacent 
colors that were painted with flat enamels.
                     ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 	
	Also for the environmentally conscious among us, there is a 
solvent for cleaning brushes, etc. based on a citrus component that 
claims to be less harmful to the environment as well as the user.  It's 
available in your local art supply store.
 
Matt Z

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 16:31:20 -0600
From: Lee Mensinger <lemen@sat.net>
To: wwi, ethomas@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Paint inter-reactions
Message-ID: <34AEBC37.E7F54239@sat.net>

> I have been reading all of the entries about paint inter-action and
> the closest I can come to a solution is as follows:

1. Let the paint dry. Even if it takes four or five DAYS.   No matter
what brand, type or gloss.  If it isn't dry you are looking for trouble.

2. To the best of my knowledge the only paint that dries enough. and
allows an almost instant addition of another color, is the original
Floquil paint products originally made for railroad modelers.
If it was dry enough to touch you could paint .  With and airbrush, but
never by hand, on plastic.  I have used it for 36 years with no
problems.

3. For the newer Acrylics.  Again... Let it dry. Before you do anything.

4. If you use Future remember it is an Acrylic.  Allow the lower paimnt
layers to dry four or five days.  Eliminate your problems.  Use
patience.

5. Watch out for solvents.  If you use Future to gloss the model you can
make Decals "snuggle down" by coating the decaling area with future,
while the decal is soaking, Move the decal to the model while wet with
water (Acrylics can be thinned with water) use a Q-tip and apply a small
amount of Future to the surface of the decal and it will even sink into
the grooves on a JU-52 or Ford Tri-motor.

Try it you may like it.  Use scrap or whatever.  It will work.

Next lesson later.  How not to dip canopies and make them dry in
minutes.


Lee.,   an old modeler.




------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:31:26 -0600 (CST)
From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Paint inter-reactions
Message-ID: <v04003900b0d415225e95@[206.50.201.71]>

>     Well, I just finished a model (off-topic, so I won't draw the odium of
>the group by saying what) and it is the first thing I have ever done in
>waterbased paint, to be specific, the new Poly Scale paints.  Now I am
>concerned, what will happen if I spray Dulcote over the Poly Scale?  I have
>read too much about bad interreactions with different media and I am scared of
>the paint wrinkling up on me or the model catching on fire (a joke, kind of)
>or something bad like that.  So have other people done this, and if so with
>what degree of success?
>

James,
 I have been using the old formula Polly "S" clear flat for a number of
years now.  The Clear Flat in the AeroMaster line is (if not the same
material) very close to the Polly "S".  It can be sprayed out of the bottle
and can be mixed in any ratio with Future for any degree of flatness.
Cleanup is very easy with either Gunze thinner or any home brew
water/alcohol mix.  It does not yellow, I have not had it affect any other
types of paint under it and I have not seen any kinds of other reactions
with time.

  I do not put any type of overcoat over gloss acrylic colors.  It is
pretty common knowledge that overcoats on gloss acrylic colors have a habit
of cracking of the base color within a few days to weeks after application.
This problem does not happen with the flat or semi gloss colors.

 FWIW, I have never been happy with either Dull or Gloss coat.
John H

Disclaimer:  Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 16:56:33 -0600
From: Lee Mensinger <lemen@sat.net>
To: wwi, mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu
Subject: Re: Paint inter-reactions
Message-ID: <34AEC221.BFC73873@sat.net>

Matthew Zivich wrote:

>         My experience has shown that lacquer will dilute acrylic based
>
> paints.  After completing a recent model with enamel and acrylic based
>
> paints on different parts I waited a couple of weeks before applying a
>
> semi-gloss lacquer, final overall coating.  The parts that were
> painted
> with the acrylic paints began to "lift" and bleed into the adjacent
> colors that were painted with flat enamels.
>                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>         Also for the environmentally conscious among us, there is a
> solvent for cleaning brushes, etc. based on a citrus component that
> claims to be less harmful to the environment as well as the user.
> It's
> available in your local art supply store.
>
> Matt Z

To anyone who wants to know.  One of the worst painty products you could
put ovewr any other product is Lacquer.
If applied to an unpainted model, with a brush, it can be one of the
worlds best glues.
I have dissolved plastic sprue in lacquer thinner and use it as a type
of filler as well as a glue for plastic models.

Avoid it if you can.  If you can't just remember that lacquer requires a
lacquer "proofing" layer between it and the original paint.  Best
advice. Don't do it.
Lee M.
New Braunfels, Tx



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:49:39 EST
From: Suvoroff <Suvoroff@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Paint inter-reactions
Message-ID: <7ea0a909.34aece95@aol.com>

Thanks a lot for the input!  I will let the thing sit a few more days and
spritz it in several thin layers.  Since it IS off topic I will be using
Dulcote.  I have some stuff over 15 years old with several layers of Dulcote
that show no signs of deterioration, though I will admit that these are all
over enamels rather than water based paints.

Yours,
James D. Gray

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 03:46:19 GMT
From: "Leonard Endy" <lfendy@firstsaga.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Fwd Msg
Message-ID: <34b00548.1026224@legend.firstsaga.com>

I received this e-mail today and thought I would forward it to the the
list for anyone who might be interested:

>Hello:
My name is Bruce Davies.  I am looking for people who are interested
in Cross & Cockade Journals plus photos, letters, signed books, etc.
from an old collection. Some of these items are collector's items,
signed by WW1 aces.  If you are interested, please drop me a note at
the following e-mail address:  FL1SALTS1@AOL.COM

Kind of vague for the S'n'S page.

Len Endy
lfendy@firstsaga.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:00:39 +1000
From: Shane Weier <SDW@qld.mim.com.au>
To: "'wwi'" <wwi>
Subject: RE: Fokker D.VII
Message-ID: <199801040114.LAA24429@mimmon.mim.com.au>


Robert replies to John G:
>
> << BTW, books on the
>  Fokker subject note the real genius behind Fokker's great fighters
> was his
>  chief designer, Reinhold Platz.  Anyone know what happened to Platz
> after
>  the war?
>   >>
> 
>The Platz thing was a bit of revisionist history dreamed up by AR
Weyl.Peter
>Grosz was somewhat of a protege of Weyl's in the 1950s and inherited
his
>papers and such.

This entire controversy has been touched on in the letters column of
Windsock in recent years too. As Robert says, Weyl absolutely detested
Tony Fokker, and took every opportunity to denigrate him. Fokker himself
was something of a self promoter (as in fact every early aircraft
designer needed to be at a time when aircraft were still treated with
suspicion by the general public) and his own bio is rather slanted in
the other direction. Undoubtedly the truth stands somewhere in the
middle, but Weyl's bio of Fokker is quoted un-critically by so many
later authors that the probable fallacy of Platz' responsibility for
Fokkers designs has become "received knowledge".  OTOH, Platz *was* an
expert on welding, and his importance in developing the welded steel
structure of Fokkers aircraft should not be underestimated - but it's
unlikely he had the knowledge to design an aircraft. 

Maybe we should be crediting Fokker for having the genius and foresight
to get the right team of people working in his factories - and the
political skill, expert airmanship and personal drive to convince others
to buy his planes

Regards

Shane

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:40:28 -0600
From: "S.M.Sundberg" <sms@netins.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Looking for Jane's
Message-ID: <34AF04AB.7DFE@netins.net>

It's usually available from:

Scholar's Bookshelf110 Melrich Road
Cranbury, NJ 08512

FAX 609-395-0755
Email: books@shcolarsbookshelf.com

Steve S.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:45:58 -0500
From: "CHARLES JOHNSON" <CEJohnsonJr@worldnet.att.net>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
Message-ID: <19980104034757.AAA23498@default>

Riordan, the info arrived today,your right not much to the rigging on the
D.VI 
thank you for the info Charlie

----------
> From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Re: DH9/Mercedes 160 query
> Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 1:51 PM
> 
> Bob Pearson wrote:
> 
> > I have also started working on some German Seaplane and Halberstadt D
> > profiles, but need a good drawing of a Mercedes 160, any help here
would
> > once again be most appreciated.
> 
> 
> All the library can offer are the the old Wylam drawings from the Model
> Airplane News book. Just say the word & they're yours.
>  
> ---------------------------------------
> This e-mail has been brought to you by
>   - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin -
>    *****************************
>        Great Gift Ideas at
>      Jewels of the Silk Road
>    http://www.silkroadjewels.com
>    *****************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:31:27 -0600
From: "Scott M. Head" <smh@iapc.net>
To: wwi
Subject: CROSS & COCKADE JOURNALS ETC.
Message-ID:  <9801032331.aa03571@mail.iapc.net>

Hi Guys,
This came via my private mail, thought someone might find it interesting...
>
>Hello:
>
>My name is Bruce Davies.  I am looking for people who are interested in Cross
>& Cockade Journals plus photos, letters, signed books, etc. from an old
>collection. Some of these items are collector's items, signed by WW1 aces.  If
>you are interested, please drop me a note at the following e-mail address:
>FL1SALTS1@AOL.COM
>
>
>

Scott M. Head
IPMS/Houston
IPMS/USA 32841
smh@iapc.net

IPMS/Houston Scale Model Forum: http://web-hou.iapc.net/~smh



------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 829
*********************