WWI Digest 1318 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: New to the group by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 2) Re:Luke's SPAD markings by John & Allison Cyganowski 3) Re: 1999 Calendar by Mike Fletcher 4) Re: Fokker Fodder -- too stupid to find in archive by Dave Watts 5) Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII by Mike Dicianna 6) Bristol F2b , South Australia 1920 by "cameron rile" 7) Metamorphisis by Dave Watts 8) RE: Most "successful" German aircraft by Shane Weier 9) Re: Most "successful" German aircraft by "Sandy Adam" 10) Re: New to the group by SmudgeRIO@aol.com 11) re: Pfalz DXII Article linked thru OTF? by "Jim Wallace" 12) French translation by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 13) Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 14) Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII by "David Vosburgh" 15) Re: Metamorphisis by KarrArt@aol.com 16) Re: OTF article by KarrArt@aol.com 17) Re: New to the group by KarrArt@aol.com 18) Re: Metamorphisis by David & Carol Fletcher 19) Re: French translation by David & Carol Fletcher 20) Re: New to the group by Kevin Wenker 21) RE: French translation by Pedro e Francisca Soares 22) Hi to the new guys by Pedro e Francisca Soares 23) Re: Metamorphisis by "David Vosburgh" 24) Re: French translation by David & Carol Fletcher 25) RE: New to the group by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:44:05 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New to the group Message-ID: <19981128.174511.-892299.4.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:00:37 -0500 (EST) SmudgeRIO@aol.com writes: >Who carries Windsock magazine. Don't recall ever seeing it. You can get it through Wise Owl, or Roll Models carries them as well. I'm not sure about Wise Owl, but Roll is: http://www.rollmodels.com Matt Bittner ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:35:56 -0500 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re:Luke's SPAD markings Message-ID: <366096EB.2F4D@worldnet.att.net> I think the doc. that comes with the PD sheet says it best: "Lukes markings are obscure." I think this means "We gave it our best shot, so leave us alone." Seriously, Luke is supposed to have chewed up several ships - something that did not endear him to the ground crews or maintenance officer. This antipathy probably is another reason why we have such a difficult time with his markings - "Why would you waste film on a guy you don't like too much?". The serial number (15155) often quoted as gospel, is a guess. This ship is known to have been on strength with the 27th during the time period in question. He may have flown this one at one time or another, but whether or not this is ole #26 cannot be defintely determined. I like PD's attempt. I even like the checkers. I don't like the lack of roundels. MSAP makes a SPAD sheet with American roundels and it has its own verion of Luke's markings - with a more standard checkerboard. My approach to these situations is to pick and choose what I like from the conflicting sources. Not academiclly rigorous, but I have to live with the finished model, not the critcs. Regards Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:21:10 -0800 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1999 Calendar Message-ID: <3660A186.E650BA6D@mars.ark.com> Panorama32 is shareware www.ivory.org/free.html was given in the program as the url -- Mike Fletcher ___ ., mdf@mars.ark.com |-\|^----! ; mikef@sparc.nic.bc.ca |--n--""*" icq=19554083 @ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:02:37 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Fokker Fodder -- too stupid to find in archive Message-ID: <199811290308.WAA02019@sam.on-net.net> >Mark writes: >I remember that there was a discussion on the plywood axle-wing on late model Fokkers. I was wondering if someone could re-enlighten me on the finish these got on lozenged machines -- were they covered with lozenge fabric doped onto the wood, painted to match lozenge, streaked, solid Fokker Green (whatever that is)?< I tried scratching around, and can add little to what Bill posted. I have a good factory photo shot of Fokker D.VII's and D.VIII's in different states of assembly, and you can see a landing gear wing fairing quite well, but I could not tell whether it has lozenge fabric on it or not. The light reflection washes out the surface so much, it makes it difficult to be certain. Sometimes, I think it does, other times not. I can see that there are D.VII's with smooth surfaced wing fairings, (aircraft a bit further along in assembly), and some D.VIII's with obvious natural wood surfaced fairings, with glued plywood splice lines etc. showing. I'm making the deduction that from this photo it appears that they covered the wing fairings with fabric, but you can't tell if it's lozenge. One thing you can clearly see is, the rudders are covered in lozenge fabric, and then totally over painted white, with the national insignia cross being applied on top. The point I'm making is that they went ahead and used the printed lozenge fabric, even though they could have used un printed white fabric. Something that may lead you to believe the wing fairing may be covered with lozenge is, if you look on page 31 of Fokker D.VIII Windsock Datafile Nr.25, (photos of Museo Caproni's surviving unrestored D.VIII), you can see that the wing fairing certainly is covered with fabric. The fabric is peeling off in the photo. They state in the caption, that the seat was covered in printed lozenge fabric. It seems possible, or maybe even likely, that if they covered the rudder which was over painted in white, and covered the seat, they would have likely used the same fabric material on hand to cover the wing fairing. Just a guess, what do you think? Best Wishes, Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:48:15 +0000 From: Mike Dicianna To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19981128204815.0075a1e8@dnc.net> >I may have to give this a try. The propeller in the kit does leave a >lot to be desired. I would agree also that it is the worst piece in >the kit. > > This kit is next in the queue for my workbench. Interesting info on colors and painting of the 1/48th BM kit in the Georga Chapter's newsletter. The Dark green upper wing with white chevron was a surprise! Planning on canabalizing some WWII 109thingie yellow decals for the K I on the fuselage. (what better use for this stock of decals in the model closet!) Mikedc "Der Rote Modellflugzeugbauer" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:32:38 -0300 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Bristol F2b , South Australia 1920 Message-ID: <199811282239296@cameron.prontomail.com> found a picture of an F2b in Australia after world war 1 on the Australian War Memorial site at : www.awm.gov.au --- negative number P0355/46/08 caption : SOUTH AUSTRALIA, 1920-10. BRISTOL F2B FIGHTER AIRCRAFT ON DISPLAY AT THE MOTOR TRADERS ASSOCIATION OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA does anyone know the whereabouts or the where the aircraft ended up? cam Visit my homepage at http://www.prontomail.com/Prontomail/users/cameron ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 03:18:32 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: Subject: Metamorphisis Message-ID: <199811290824.DAA07307@sam.on-net.net> Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has tackled, or seen attempted, the "spectral evolution" of the various incarnations of a particular aircraft from cradle to grave. It would take a good set of photos over the given life of a airplane. What I'm envisioning is a scenario something like this; the plane factory fresh, various pilot and Jasta markings, interned captured markings, allied experimental camouflage testing, air racing colors, air mail scheme, Hollywood movie costume, barnstormer, derelict, and finally restored to museum "correct" (you have to make some mistakes on this last incarnation). Reminds me of a movie I saw as a kid, "The Yellow Rolls-Royce". Maybe someone can come up with a list of more creative incarnations, or maybe someone knows of a real life plane that had a more colorful multifaceted history. Best Wishes, Dave W. PS: I was trying to use words as well as our list member Dr. Philip Anz-Meador, but alas, "That ain't gonna happen". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:19:37 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Most "successful" German aircraft Message-ID: Sandy, Excuse my English. Should read: Sounds like a worms eye view of Sandy Adam's a**e, without the hairy knees > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy Adam [mailto:cbbs@almac.co.uk] > Sent: Saturday, 28 November 1998 20:33 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Most "successful" German aircraft > > > > Sounds like a worms eye view of Sandy Adams, without the hairy knees > > Who he? > Sandy Adam > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:40:27 -0800 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Most "successful" German aircraft Message-ID: <199811291138.LAA29318@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Sandy, > Excuse my English. > Should read: > Sounds like a worms eye view of Sandy Adam's a**e, without the hairy > knees No, its still not good English, Shane - it should read: > Sounds like a worm's eye view of Sandy Adam's a**e, without the hairy > knees You see you need an apostrophe in "worm's" for the genitive case. Sandy PS I'm nervous that you find my a**e of any interest whatsoever and I'm certain it's of absolutely no interest to anybody else so perhaps you could continue this off-topic if you must? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:33:06 EST From: SmudgeRIO@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New to the group Message-ID: <75bfe635.36616932@aol.com> Thanks, Smudge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:47:01 -0500 From: "Jim Wallace" To: "Wwi" Subject: re: Pfalz DXII Article linked thru OTF? Message-ID: <001701be1baf$81267300$0104a8c0@sopwith.joat.com> From: The Shannons >I remember that there was a discussion on the plywood axle-wing on late >model Fokkers. I was wondering if someone could re-enlighten me on the >finish these got on lozenged machines -- were they covered with lozenge >fabric doped onto the wood, painted to match lozenge, streaked, solid >Fokker Green (whatever that is)? When working on the 1/28 D.VII last year I looked at a ton of photos of axle wings and never found anything conclusive. Some definitely hinted at a lozenge pattern. I've heard the current thinking is that since they were plywood covered, they wouldn't be lozenge, but I don't believe that is a valid reason. I've seen photos of damaged axle wings that have cloth over the plywood. I just found a photo of a lozenged Albatros. And everyone has seen lozenge wheel covers, which were probably metal. I took flack when I made mine lozenge (and will probably get more for this message). It seems that WWI modelers are guilty under proven innocent. jmw ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:18:03 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: French translation Message-ID: <19981129.101850.-889713.3.mbittner@juno.com> If I have some articles from Replic I would like translated, is there anybody on this list willing to do so for me? I understand that from a number of my modeling interests the November issue is a must buy. TIA! Matt Bittner ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:06:22 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII Message-ID: <19981129.101850.-889713.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:49:17 -0500 (EST) Mike Dicianna writes: >This kit is next in the queue for my workbench. Interesting info on >colors >and painting of the 1/48th BM kit in the Georga Chapter's newsletter. >The >Dark green upper wing with white chevron was a surprise! Planning >on >canabalizing some WWII 109thingie yellow decals for the K I on the >fuselage. >(what better use for this stock of decals in the model closet!) Anybody have any other color info for D.XII's of Jasta 23b or 35b? Since everybody is building "KI", I'm definitiely looking for something different. Matt Bittner ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:33:03 -0500 From: "David Vosburgh" To: Subject: Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII Message-ID: <001201be1bbe$5225d5a0$0ed690d0@Pvosburg> Hi Matt I have a scheme for 2486/18 from Colin Owers that was in WWI Aero No.124 if you don't already have it. Caption describes it as ex-Jasta 23, brought down by S.E.s from No.1 Sqdn.. It's two-tone with b&w striped empennage, no other distinguishing markings. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Matthew E Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 11:39 AM Subject: Re: More on Toko Pfalz DXII >On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:49:17 -0500 (EST) Mike Dicianna >writes: > >>This kit is next in the queue for my workbench. Interesting info on >>colors >>and painting of the 1/48th BM kit in the Georga Chapter's newsletter. >>The >>Dark green upper wing with white chevron was a surprise! Planning >>on >>canabalizing some WWII 109thingie yellow decals for the K I on the >>fuselage. >>(what better use for this stock of decals in the model closet!) > >Anybody have any other color info for D.XII's of Jasta 23b or 35b? Since >everybody is building "KI", I'm definitiely looking for something >different. > > >Matt Bittner > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:29:44 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Metamorphisis Message-ID: In a message dated 11/29/98 12:26:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, davew@wattstrainshop.com writes: << Just wondering if anyone has tackled, or seen attempted, the "spectral evolution" of the various incarnations of a particular aircraft from cradle to grave. It would take a good set of photos over the given life of a airplane. What I'm envisioning is a scenario something like this; the plane factory fresh, various pilot and Jasta markings, interned captured markings, allied experimental camouflage testing, air racing colors, air mail scheme, Hollywood movie costume, barnstormer, derelict, and finally restored to museum "correct" (you have to make some mistakes on this last incarnation).... Best Wishes, Dave W. >> Maybe not exactly as complete a cycle as you're writing about, but isn't there a factory photo of the Canberra Albatros? Now, if I could just remember where I came across this.That would at least take it back to its beginnings. ( then again, its early and I could be dreaming!) Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:12:01 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: OTF article Message-ID: <487682d1.36619c81@aol.com> A few stolen quotes from the last week or two: << >Just finished reading Sharon's article on Kurt Wolf (sp?) in the >recent OTF. I liked it a lot and there's a cool picture with him wearing >a nightcap. :-) Glad you liked it! The nightcap photo is one of my favorites of Wolff. Such a patient man... I'd have clocked both my buddies and gone off to clean spark plugs, or something. :-) >I was interested in the organizational style of the >article. I found it made for interesting reading and allowed me to >retain more info than usual. I'm specifically glad to hear that! It was an experiment.... :-) > Nice job, Sharon. Thank you, kind sir! Now if I could only get my copy in the mail, so I can see the issue as well.... [heavy theatrical sigh....] :-) Yes- my reactions to the piece are simliar! What flows next from you pen?......and.......did you ever recieve your copy? Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:12:04 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New to the group Message-ID: <2e6edb1.36619c84@aol.com> In a message dated 11/28/98 1:41:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: << Smudge, >> Forgive the tardiness from this corner! Recovering a bit from the holiday weekend, I say "welcome" from Southern California. Just be careful of spotty- assed Scotsmen, hairy-legged Canadians( I'm already ducking under cover)), various Heretics ( and hisatics), Possum fanciers,and an assortment of DownUnder coots and loonies, to mention only a few sub species of a vast collection of obsessive-compulsives from several different continents! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:23:11 -0800 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Metamorphisis Message-ID: <36619F1F.7413@mars.ark.com> Dave Watts wrote: Just wondering if anyone has tackled, or seen attempted, the "spectral evolution" of the various incarnations of a particular aircraft from cradle to grave..." Chapter 13 of my {off-topic/WWII) book illustrates the same airframe from just after delivery, through RCAF and RCN service, civilian use in different paint schemes and finally as restored at the Reynolds Museum in Alberta. Been there, done that - but with a round-engined, cantilever monoplane... Dave Fletcher dcf@mars.ark.com (direct correspondents please note new address!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:23:31 -0800 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: French translation Message-ID: <36619F33.1275@mars.ark.com> Matthew E Bittner wrote: "If I have some articles from Replic I would like translated, is there anybody on this list willing to do so for me?..." My technical French isn't too bad, so I can do it if you don't find any other volunteers. Am I correct in assuming that this has to do with Nieuports??? I'm looking for the [off topic] Replic Boulton-Paul Defiant article if you have that - that's my 'fee' (as opposed to F.E. being pronounced 'fee') to bring this back to list... Do you plan on e-mailing or snail-mailing? Dave Fletcher dcf@mars.ark.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:27:36 -0600 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New to the group Message-ID: <3661A027.8A651B50@interaccess.com> The rest of us are normal, thank you very much. You were of course talking about the 1/72nders. KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/28/98 1:41:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, > sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: > > << Smudge, >> > > Forgive the tardiness from this corner! Recovering a bit from the holiday > weekend, I say "welcome" from Southern California. Just be careful of spotty- > assed Scotsmen, hairy-legged Canadians( I'm already ducking under cover)), > various Heretics ( and hisatics), Possum fanciers,and an assortment of > DownUnder coots and loonies, to mention only a few sub species of a vast > collection of obsessive-compulsives from several different continents! > Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:49:47 +0100 From: Pedro e Francisca Soares To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: French translation Message-ID: <01BE1BD1.A7CE9100@fei1-p1.telepac.pt> -----Original Message----- From: David & Carol Fletcher [SMTP:dcf@mars.ark.com] Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 8:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: French translation Matthew E Bittner wrote: "If I have some articles from Replic I would like translated, is there anybody on this list willing to do so for me?..." snip Boulton-Paul Defiant article if you have that - that's my 'fee' (as opposed to F.E. being pronounced 'fee') to bring this back to list... Do you plan on e-mailing or snail-mailing? Dave Fletcher dcf@mars.ark.com Wanna split the work in halves Dave? Matt? Um abraco Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:51:24 +0100 From: Pedro e Francisca Soares To: "WW1 Modeling List (E-mail)" Subject: Hi to the new guys Message-ID: <01BE1BD1.AC086A20@fei1-p1.telepac.pt> Just a short one to say Ola e um abraco de Portugal to the recent converts to the list. You'll have a good time I'm sure. Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:48:23 -0500 From: "David Vosburgh" To: Subject: Re: Metamorphisis Message-ID: <003801be1bd9$9bcfe9a0$12d690d0@Pvosburg> Robert: Don't know if this is the one you were thinking of, but WWI Aero No.128 (May '90) has a picture of the Canberra Alb. D.Va #D.5390 fresh from the factory, then immediately post-capture, and under various stages of restoration. Regards, Dave -----Original Message----- From: KarrArt@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Metamorphisis >In a message dated 11/29/98 12:26:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, >davew@wattstrainshop.com writes: > ><< Just wondering if anyone has tackled, or seen attempted, the "spectral > evolution" of the various incarnations of a particular aircraft from cradle > to grave. It would take a good set of photos over the given life of a > airplane. What I'm envisioning is a scenario something like this; the > plane factory fresh, various pilot and Jasta markings, interned captured > markings, allied experimental camouflage testing, air racing colors, air > mail scheme, Hollywood movie costume, barnstormer, derelict, and finally > restored to museum "correct" (you have to make some mistakes on this last > incarnation).... > > > Best Wishes, > Dave W. >> > >Maybe not exactly as complete a cycle as you're writing about, but isn't there >a factory photo of the Canberra Albatros? Now, if I could just remember where >I came across this.That would at least take it back to its beginnings. then >again, its early and I could be dreaming!) >Robert K. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:49:10 -0800 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: French translation Message-ID: <3661B346.648B@mars.ark.com> Pedro e Francisca Soares wrote: "Wanna split the work in halves Dave? Matt?" I'm flexible, the original message doesn't indicate how many thousand words of text there are! - if snail mail is involved, it may be cheaper for Matt to send things to Canada rather than Portugal (funny how Americans only speak one language, but hookers all over the world speak theirs - that's a reply to the cheap shot about hairy Canadian legs...) Too bad you can't figure a way to e-mail vino verde, Pedro! Dave Fletcher dcf@mars.ark.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:04:18 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: New to the group Message-ID: Hey, >, Possum fanciers, (snip) > DownUnder coots and loonies, (snip) > obsessive-compulsives from several different continents! > I get THREE mentions ! Robert, you shouldn't have ! Shane (6:30am Monday, at work and Feeling Frisky) ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1318 **********************