WWI Digest 1215 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Roland C.II--again! by Dave Watts 2) RE: Roland C.II--again! by Shane Weier 3) RE: Roland D.VIb by Dave Watts 4) Re: Couple of Books I have noticed by Zulis@aol.com 5) Re: Snipes: Pegasus vs. Toko by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 6) RE: Snipes: Pegasus vs. Toko by Shane Weier 7) Re: M-S I/N Kit by Graham Nash 8) Yet another RNAS Triplane photo by Bob Pearson 9) fwd: Re: Eduard Tripehound - A Little More info (please!) by John Berlien 10) Profiles at UTDallas by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 11) fwd: Re: Eduard Tripehound - A Little More info (please!) by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 12) Laminated wood finish by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 13) Re: Laminated wood finish by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 14) pale grey by Ernest Thomas 15) Re: Laminated wood finish by mbittner@juno.com 16) RE: Yet another RNAS Triplane photo by Cleo 17) Re: SE-5a kits? by "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com> 18) Re: SE-5a kits? by mbittner@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:09:21 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: RE: Roland C.II--again! Message-ID: <199809180242.VAA00109@sam.on-net.net> I have a 10" x 5" original piece of a Roland D.VIb, with the exterior aluminum aileron exit cover attached. The interior of the lapstrake wood is painted a olive green, (the exterior is varnished brown, with with a spattering of dark speckles of the varnish possibly caused by time or exposure to fuel). The exterior of the aluminum guide plate is painted the same color, and secured with 7 slotted screws. I am sure of the authenticity, and believe that it was not from a restored or repaired section of aircraft. Best Wishes to All, Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:07:54 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Roland C.II--again! Message-ID: <199809180325.NAA17455@mimmon.mim.com.au> Dave, >I have a 10" x 5" original piece of a Roland D.VIb, with the exterior >aluminum aileron exit cover attached. The interior of the lapstrake wood >is painted a olive green, (the exterior is varnished brown, with with a >spattering of dark speckles of the varnish possibly caused by time or >exposure to fuel). The exterior of the aluminum guide plate is painted the >same color, and secured with 7 slotted screws. I am sure of the >authenticity, and believe that it was not from a restored or repaired >section of aircraft. Not arguing about the authenticity or anything, but is there any reason to suppose that the clinker/lapstrake built D.VIb would be painted in the same fashion, or for the same reason as the dissimilarly constructed C.II except that they were made by the same company? Exterior, for example, is varnished instead of painted, so maybe the interior would also be done differently. OTOH, now i know how to make my D.VI b !! Out of curiosity, can you tell us how you came upon your relic, and anything of its history? Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:22:23 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: RE: Roland D.VIb Message-ID: <199809180425.XAA03297@sam.on-net.net> Hi Shane, >Not arguing about the authenticity or anything, but is there any reason >to suppose that the clinker/lapstrake built D.VIb would be painted in >the same fashion, or for the same reason as the dissimilarly constructed >C.II except that they were made by the same company? You misunderstand, and state exactly what my point was. I only wanted to state what a D.VIb used for interior color, and that its' only validity is that it is a L.F.G. product. If you have no leads on C.II relics, the next best thing would be a D.I interior piece or D.II and so on and so on. This is a D.VIb piece. My statement reads much stronger than my point, so take it as "your correct". >Exterior, for example, is varnished instead of painted, so maybe the interior would >also be done differently. OTOH, now i know how to make my D.VI b !! I hear you. I don't know if, for example, Fokker used the same metal frame paint color on Dr.I's, D.VII's, and D.VIII's. One point of interest or note is that the paint used on the interior of the D.VIb was used on the exterior aileron cable guide plate. This would weakly point to the possibility that the interior color of the C.II would be the same color as the exterior. I don't know of other wood aircraft interior/exterior color combinations. >Out of curiosity, can you tell us how you came upon your relic, and anything of its history? About eight months ago a friend of mine sent over some instruments, and the piece was "thrown in". I asked him what it was, (although I could guess), and he said he had picked it up off the floor of the hanger of the Museum of Astronautics in Krakow while looking at motors during a private tour with the director 12 or 15 years ago, and the director let him keep it, ( I doubt this last part). He looked at several aircraft at the time, and told me that some were outside under tarps rotting away, and others were stacked up on top of each other, in piles or stacks. Baronowski (sic?) was the director at that time. (I last visited the same museum about 9 years ago, and they were under a new director and were restoring several aircraft, and things were greatly improved over what he had seen.) When he stated this, I recognized immediately that it must be from 2225/18. I told him that he should have left the piece at the time. He said that this was basically "a piece of rubbish". Knowing him I am certain that is what he believed. I tried to point out that it's not rubbish, and it should have been left, and that they eventually restored the aircraft and could have used it. He said if they restored it, they don't need it anymore. Well, I think you get the idea, I was wasting time talking to him, and I should carefully observe him if he ever comes to visit and takes a look at my "rubbish". Now I am left with the reality of if I return the piece, it IS of very little use now. Best Wishes, Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:31:44 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Couple of Books I have noticed Message-ID: <4474ced5.3601e230@aol.com> << Could you please list the urls for these sites? I need to track down a replacement copy of a book I lent out which I doubt I'll ever see again. Thanks, Ken >> Ok Ken, these are the sites that I visit when searching for books. All of them except for Icarus are currently working... I hope Icarus makes a return. The URL for the Naval site is so long that I have no idea what it will come out looking like on the posting. Enjoy, Dave Zulis __________________________________________________________________ Aeroplane Books http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/ Articles of War http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/articles/ww1.html William Byrd Aviation Bookstore http://torranceweb.com/williambyrd/ Flying Machine Press http://www.flying-machines.com/ Four Star Collectibles http://pages.prodigy.com/4star/books.htm Icarus Books http://www.icarusbooks.com/ [I've been having problems with this link lately] The Military Collector http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/military/books.html M.J.Rudy's Books http://members.aol.com/MRudyruthl/bklist.html Scholar's Bookshelf http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/ U.S. Naval Institute Webstore http://www.usni.org/cgi- bin/SoftCart.exe/webstore/press/bb_putnam_aviation_series.html?L+press+hkxt541 4+898965952 University of Texas at Dallas Aviation Books http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/aeroclassics/Page1.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:56:14 -0700 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Re: Snipes: Pegasus vs. Toko Message-ID: <3601E7EE.6E27@ricochet.net> mgoodwin@ricochet.net wrote: > > I know the Toko kit is more buildable (and includes decals-not that I > need 'em...), but isn't the Pegasus kit (picked one up for $3.00) more > accurate? So, was this a stupid question or... > nb: Testor's Area S4 UFO did my heresy 'alienate' everyone? Cheers, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:29:50 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Snipes: Pegasus vs. Toko Message-ID: <199809180608.QAA18462@mimmon.mim.com.au> Riordan, >> I know the Toko kit is more buildable (and includes decals-not that I >> need 'em...), but isn't the Pegasus kit (picked one up for $3.00) more >> accurate? >So, was this a stupid question or... >> nb: Testor's Area S4 UFO >did my heresy 'alienate' everyone? Both ;-0 I don't have the Pegasus, so I can't compare unfortunately. And maybe you have struck the same situation with the rest of the list. OTOH, if I never spoke up when I didn't have a clue, I'd have little cause to talk at all so.... The Toko Snipe is mostly accurate (as far as I can tell) with the exception of the overlong fuselage and aileron balances areas which don't match the DF drawings. I'm dubious about the drawings in so far as the aileron outline goes - it simply doesn't match the photos too well - so the fuselage length is the real bind. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:21:04 +0100 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Re: M-S I/N Kit Message-ID: <199809180721.DAA01474@egate2.citicorp.com> Jeff Curtis wrote: > > I ordered a kit from Francesco. As you know, it came without decals and an > explanation he was trying to get decals printed from a different source, > and would forward them to me when available. Instead, he sent me another > kit a couple of weeks later. Both have scalloped wings, but the first one > he mailed me is molded in light grey and came with Temeks instructions > printed in Russian. The 2nd kit I received was molded in a much darker > plastic and had instructions he had printed up. Other than the color > difference, the sprues where identical, but I can definitely say they came > from the Temeks originals. > > As for decals, are there any 3rd-party decals available I can purchase? > > Jeff > ---------- Interesingly (or not) my kit has one sprue in light gray, one in dark-no decals, instructions in English. Thanks for the confirmation though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:01:01 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list , WWI-L@ukans.edu Subject: Yet another RNAS Triplane photo Message-ID: <09010169903902@KAIEN.COM> Greetings all, Yet another batch of RNAS photos have arrived, including four of the sole Sopwith Triplane to serve in the Aegean - N5431. In one of them there is an officer standing in front of the pristine Triplane, which is newly arrived at Mudros (this can be seen by tha fact that it is still bearing the original fin, not the new one fitted after Alcock overturned N5431 on 26 March). I think this officer could be J W Alcock of Alcock and Brown fame. Can anyone confirm this for me? As usual a scan can be provided and I have Stuart Leslie's permission to do so. regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:55:11 -0700 From: John Berlien To: wwi Subject: fwd: Re: Eduard Tripehound - A Little More info (please!) Message-ID: Any takers on the quick questions below - I hope to finish the cockpit this weekend. Thanks! Jack ------------------ Original text From: John Berlien , on 9/15/98 12:31 PM: To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Hey, one more little thing (I have the same question since I am at exactly the same point on my Smer version) - is the bracing molded into the sides wood? What color - dark brown or light wood color? What color is the rear cockpit bulkhead? Thanks, Jack ---------- ------------------ Original text From: "Sandy Adam" , on 9/10/98 1:53 PM: I've looked inside the Tripe at the RAF Museum and it, and all the other PC10 machines, as you would expect, show a linen colour, darkened by the application of the PC10 on the other side. FWIW, I use linen or CDL paint darkened with some brown for my RFC interiors. (I matched this up from the Strutter in the RAFM just before building the Tom's vacform and you can see this colour fairly clearly in the Strutter pictures Al put in the Images gallery recently) Sandy ---------- > From: Chris Cato > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Eduard Tripehound > Date: 10 September 1998 08:30 > > Having essentially finished up the Dako S.XVI that I've been working on for > a while, I've moved on to an Eduard Sopwith Triplane I intended to build > OOB. I've been trying to decide on colors for the interior cockpit sides. > At this point I have no real references on the Tripe nor have I been able > to find ones in local stores so I come to the list with a plea - was the > fabric CDL with PC10 painted over it? Should I try and show PC10 bleeding > through linen for the interior sides? I pretty sure I'm going to do this > one in the stripe markings the kit lists as for Jenner-Pearson's (sp?) Maud > - does anyone know the history of this craft? As an aside now that the > Dako kit is built up I have some questions about its accuracy but it does > build into an unmistakable S.XVI. I enjoyed it and may build another > corrected to be a production aircraft. > > Chris Cato > tcato@connix > > ps - As the person who initially requested information on von Hippel and > Jasta 5 I must offer my mea culpa in whatever hand I had in this incident. > Now that I've seen the quality and quantity of Dr. Merrill's research ( > instruction sheet is what I expected and research is what I got ) he will > get my order regardless of how he runs his business. The material is > unique, the decals are unique, and although I do not necessarily agree with > much of what Dr. Merrill has to say it seems it will be our loss if he goes > out of business. And with any luck that Jasta 5 book mentioned will be > available one day for my purchase! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:50:43 EDT From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Profiles at UTDallas Message-ID: Hi Gang! I was at UTDallas yesterday. Among other things I checked the supply of WWI Profiles. There are a few there: 21 Bristol Fighter (4 copies) 38 Fokker Monoplanes 74 Short 184 (3 copies) 97 American DH4 121 Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter 200 Martinsyde Elephant All are in very good to excellent condition, and are for sale at $6 each plus postage. Contact UTDallas at: mcaspari@utdallas.edu Thanks! Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:49:35 -0500 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: fwd: Re: Eduard Tripehound - A Little More info (please!) Message-ID: Jack, FWIW, I finished the parts in question on my Tripe in wood colors, with = the bracing a little darker than the bulkhead. I don't know if it is = exactly accurate, but it looked good to my number one critic (me). Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:55:48 -0700 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi Subject: Laminated wood finish Message-ID: <36036383.7F1F@tac.com.au> Hi everybody, Can someone please tell me their favourite method of achieving the laminated wood finish on the propellers? I'm just not happy with what I've managed to achieve :-( TIA Lorna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:53:45 -0500 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Laminated wood finish Message-ID: Hi Lorna, I paint my props with a flat wood color; most of the time I use Testors = Wood. When dry, I use water color pencils in darker brown shades to add = the laminations. Lay the prop on it's side, and then draw a line (not too = sharply) on each side parallel to the prop blades. I usually can add only = 2-3 lines on each prop, due to the size. I wipe off mistakes using a = cloth dampened with a solution of water and rubbing alcohol. When done, I = spray on an overcoat of clear semi-gloss. The hardest parts are keeping = the lines of the "darker wood" parallel to each other, and getting them to = match up at the end of the prop blades. You may want to practice a = little. This technique gives a finish that is good enough for my = tastes.=20 The water color pencils may be found at craft or art supply stores. They = also come in handy for adding other details and weathering.=20 Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:15:40 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: pale grey Message-ID: <3602CD7C.6669@bellsouth.net> Hi Ho Everybody, Can anybody give me an approximation on what shade of grey the underside of a Belgian Spad would be? The Aeromaster sheet just says pale grey. Is this a few shades light than Battleship Grey? Off White? Please contact me off list, as I'm still not re-subscribed. E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:02:27 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Laminated wood finish Message-ID: <19980918.180358.-245417.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:05:13 -0400 Shane & Lorna Jenkins writes: >Can someone please tell me their favourite method of achieving the >laminated wood finish on the propellers? I'm just not happy with what >I've managed to achieve :-( I first paint it with a medium brown, then paint lines representing the lamintated darker wood. However, then next one I do I'll use watercolor pencils! Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:28:43 -0500 From: Cleo To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Yet another RNAS Triplane photo Message-ID: <01BDE332.3581A240@port1097.jxn.netdoor.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDE332.3581A240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BOB, WOULD APPRECIATE A SCAN. THANKS -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson [SMTP:bpearson@kaien.com] Sent: Friday, September 18, 1998 4:03 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Yet another RNAS Triplane photo Greetings all, Yet another batch of RNAS photos have arrived, including four of the sole Sopwith Triplane to serve in the Aegean - N5431. In one of them there is an officer standing in front of the pristine Triplane, which is newly arrived at Mudros (this can be seen by tha fact that it is still bearing the original fin, not the new one fitted after Alcock overturned N5431 on 26 March). I think this officer could be J W Alcock of Alcock and Brown fame. Can anyone confirm this for me? 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Anderson" <2814823733@home.com> To: wwi Subject: Re: SE-5a kits? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980918182620.006e3110@mail> At 10:14 PM 16/09/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:06:20 -0400 "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com> >writes: > >>Say, did I ever tell you what a terrific job you did on that >>Dragon/DML >>**1/48** Triplane? Really terrific! > >Well, we all tread down the darkside occasionally...:-) > >>(aside: did you glue the middle wing before painting, or after?) > >Before. I had a small gap I had to deal with. What would you do if you have to paint streaked fabric upper/turquoise lower? This would be a question appicable to 72 scale too. I had been working on the Dragon Dr I, and, because I too was doing Raben's bird, and because the paint scheme is so simple, I just went and assembled everything, landing gear struts and spreader bar included, before painting (However, after laying on some white, I decided I wasn't at all happy with the alignment of anything, so I pulled everything apart, so I am going to be starting over again, in a manner of speaking). However, I remember thinking, that if I had planned on doing a standard streaked/turqoise scheme, I'd probably want not want to have the middle or upper wing on. So I was just curious what you did. That's all. >And there is little chance I'll ever do Braille Scale again. I was going >to finish a DML D.VII in Raben's markings, but sold the kit - and the out >of production conversion nose - so there's no chance of that. :-) Well, your 72 models are certainly very good, and I was also admiring the Pfalz D.III too. You did a very nice job on it, and it has a very fine appearance. Best of all, though, is that the WW I page has rendered it so huge it looks almost 1/32 scale! Magnificent! Dane > >Matt Bittner > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:39:57 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: SE-5a kits? Message-ID: <19980918.204002.-244137.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:35:50 -0400 "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com> writes: >What would you do if you have to paint streaked fabric upper/turquoise >lower? This would be a question appicable to 72 scale too. I had been >working on the Dragon Dr I, and, because I too was doing Raben's bird, >and >because the paint scheme is so simple, I just went and assembled >everything, landing gear struts and spreader bar included, before >painting >(However, after laying on some white, I decided I wasn't at all happy >with >the alignment of anything, so I pulled everything apart, so I am going >to >be starting over again, in a manner of speaking). Oooo...good question. >However, I remember thinking, that if I had planned on doing a >standard >streaked/turqoise scheme, I'd probably want not want to have the >middle or >upper wing on. So I was just curious what you did. That's all. Hmmm...since I will probably only build two more Dr.I's ever again, painting them will be a snap (both of Jacobs' mounts). :-) So, I don't think I will ever have to deal with this problem. >Well, your 72 models are certainly very good, and I was also admiring >the >Pfalz D.III too. You did a very nice job on it, and it has a very fine >appearance. Best of all, though, is that the WW I page has rendered it >so >huge it looks almost 1/32 scale! Magnificent! Thanks for the good words. Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1215 **********************