WWI Digest 1204 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Eduard Tripehound by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 2) Re: "Customer" relations by Dave Watts 3) RE: French escadrille emblems. Was: an Ancient WWI Book by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 4) "Customer" relations by Dave Watts 5) Re: Eduard Tripehound by Bob Pearson 6) Re: WTB: Blue Max SPAD VII by Modelhound@aol.com 7) Re: Americal and the list/Righteous Ire by "Sandy Adam" 8) Re: WTB: Blue Max SPAD VII by "Sandy Adam" 9) Re: Letter from Americal Gryphon by "Sandy Adam" 10) Re: Eduard Tripehound by "Sandy Adam" 11) Re: Letter from Americal Gryphon by fedders 12) Re: Letter from Americal Gryphon by fedders 13) Libraries & copyright (was Customer Relations) by Patrick Padovan 14) Re: Eduard Tripehound by The Shannons 15) Re: Thinning acrylics by Matthew Zivich 16) RE: Americal/Gryphon by Shane Weier 17) Re: Americal by Geoff Smith 18) RE: Eduard Tripehound by Shane Weier 19) Re: Americal by "Jim Elkins" 20) RE: Eduard Tripehound by "Steven M. Perry" 21) Eurofighter by "Sandy Adam" 22) Re: Blue Max Sopwith Camel Question by "Sandy Adam" 23) Re: Thinning acrylics by KarrArt@aol.com 24) Re: "Customer" relations by KarrArt@aol.com 25) N.124 Bebe markings/serials by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 26) Re: Eduard Tripehound by David & Carol Fletcher 27) Re: Libraries & copyright (was Customer Relations) by Mick Fauchon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:59:35 EDT From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <7867e092.35f7f767@aol.com> Hi Chris! I am admittedly no expert on things PC.10, but I would point out that generally the aircraft were doped with several coats of clear dope before the color coats were applied, so I doubt that the color would bleed through. I would dull down a CDL colorwith a little grey or something and paint the interior fabric with that, to simulate CDL with no light showing through. The German loz fabric shows through on the interior because the fabric was colored before the clear dope was applied. HTH Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:00:59 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: "Customer" relations Message-ID: <199809101703.MAA02063@sam.on-net.net> Hi Mike and others, I identified myself as a non-perpetrator, to let you know that my views were unbiased, and my judgement of Dr.Merrill's posting was not a defensive reaction. He certainly should make his call on the copyright issue, but he should have put on the binders after that. Don't feel too bad about the whole thing, no one is dead or dying, and no one will be taking food from the Dr.'s mouth any longer. That's where it's good that we have cleared up some of these issues, and something positive did come from this for the Dr., (other than guilt orders). I, (like Mr. G., John Glaser), bring up the fact that public libraries have copier machines for all to use, and there are no copyright warnings. I, probably like most, am naive when it comes to copyright law, and felt if you were not profiting from someone else's work, you were not breaking any laws. So sharing information for free, (or actually at a cost to the one sharing), would be O.K. I also, somewhat felt that we had a quasi library on line with this group, but the book stacks were in each others homes. For example at Kinko's, they will not copy copyrighted material for you, but they will allow you to do it yourself, on one of their machines. Maybe we should have someone host a copyright discussion off list at some other neutral site. Best Wishes, Dave W. (snipped from Mike's posting) >>Just a couple of observations. >>(Big Snip) > >> I wish Dr.Merrill the best of luck and success with his business and >>personal research and well being. >>Best Wishes to All, >> Dave W. (non-perpetrator of Jastagate) > >Maybe I should fall on a sword or something, but all this has given me a >real bad aftertaste. As probably the main culprit in this whole copywrite >mess, I am feeling like doo-doo! > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:13:38 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: French escadrille emblems. Was: an Ancient WWI Book Message-ID: <01BDDCB4.72376960.panz-meador@vsti.com> the book nodoubt referred to is a 2 vol. set entitled something like french AF 19?-1940. the first thin volume discusses the history, and i believe the 2nd volume is nothing but renditions of the various insignia. this is the thick volume. as i indicated in a post this spring, the fondren library at rice has a copy of these volumes, which can certainly be accessed by interlibrary loan since they books are not in a special collection. the entire rice catalog may be accessed via the web at (i believe) www.rice.edu. after the discussions of the previous few days, wouldn't it be rather short-sighted (to say the least) about firing up the scanner in so cavalier a fashion? i'd recommend interlibrary loan, which should be available from a public library near you. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. [SMTP:lamas@olympus.net] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 9:29 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: French escadrille emblems. Was: an Ancient WWI Book >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:45:13 -0400 DavidL1217@aol.com writes: > >>At one of the OTF seminars, it was mentioned that there was a French >>book >>which had pages showing each escadrille's emblem. Does anyone know >>the name >>of the book and where I can get photocopies or scans of these pages? >********** >I know of no French book, but an early issue of C&C (US) had just that: >color pages of all known Escadrille emblems. Unfortunately I don't have >the issue, but have seen it because it was lent to me while doing some >research. > > >Matt Bittner > The C&C issue is Volume 7/ Number 3/Autumn 1966. I have it in front of me now and was looking through it last night while looking through the Americal catalog while trying to decide if I should get a Cigognes sheet. It has color reproductions of 271 French escadrille emblems. So, again, here is the issue that Art Karr brought up. C & C is defunct. The article in this 1966 issue is credited to a translation of a document prepared by the French Air Force Historical Section in 1963. Are these sheets something that can be reproduced? Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:10:52 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: Subject: "Customer" relations Message-ID: <199809101713.MAA02473@sam.on-net.net> Just a thank you to Robert K. for answering the questions on copyright law,....very good! I should have read ahead on the other postings, before posting. Best, Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:44:37 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <16443761704475@KAIEN.COM> Chris makes an excellent choice in his next kit by stating . .. . .. > > Having essentially finished up the Dako S.XVI that I've been working on for > a while, I've moved on to an Eduard Sopwith Triplane I intended to build > OOB. I pretty sure I'm going to do this > one in the stripe markings the kit lists as for Jenner-Pearson's (sp?) Maud > - does anyone know the history of this craft? Maud (N5482) is really the aircraft of Flt/Cdr CD Booker - not Jenner-Parsons. It was delivered to No.8(N) sqn RNAS on 10 April 1917 and named Maud By Booker - BTW it was the practice for Naval Eight to name their aircraft after girlfriends or other female acquaintance Well except for Little's Blymp (his son's nickname) or ED Crundall's Whitfield (his hometown). Using N5482, Booker downed 14 aircraft before being forced down by Ltn Schobinger of Jasta 12 on 11 July 1917. Maud was then destroyed by artillery fire, Booker was unhurt. Although assigned to Booker, on 12 June Jenner-Parsons used Maud to share in the downing and capture of DFW C.V 9045/16 which was given the capture number G44 (okay, so technically it was J-P's a/c, albeit briefly). I have a photo of Maud from Stuart Leslie which I can scan and send along if interested - this is the one seen in the Datafile (and yes, I have his permission to do so). regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:39:10 EDT From: Modelhound@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: WTB: Blue Max SPAD VII Message-ID: <305284f4.35f80ebe@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-09 21:28:59 EDT, Riordan wrote: << I might settle for a started one, though. It's barely possible that Chris Gannon (Mr. Pegasus/Blue Max) still has a few of these lying around. >> I write: The reason I'm asking for this kit here is that when I ordered the SPAD from Mr. Gannon along with the Sopwith Camel, there was no SPAD in the package that arrived chez moi, and my credit card was not charged for this kit. There was no note in the package as to whether or not the SPAD was no longer available, but I assume not. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:23:54 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Americal and the list/Righteous Ire Message-ID: <199809101748.SAA07260@beryl.sol.co.uk> > possibly doing business with him in the future. If I was bothered by > strong opinions or 'venting', I'd have bailed from this list the first > time Sandy gave his interesting opinions of we-all-know-who (which I > often find rather entertaining, BTW). Thank you Rio. My son gets a children's comic here called the "Beano" which has a wonderful strip cartoon called "Baron von Reichspudding" which I think you may enjoy. I shall scan the last six months worth of episodes and distribute them electronically to all interested.....What?, What's that? Copywhat? AAAaaaaaarggh! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:32:08 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: WTB: Blue Max SPAD VII Message-ID: <199809101748.SAA07265@beryl.sol.co.uk> I'm pretty sure CG still has SPADs for sale - the contact info is on Al's web page I think - any difficulty mail me direct and I'll phone him. He accepts credit cards and posts worldwide free of charge so it would cost you 20GBP (33USD) BTW if you can get one, the JGMT 1/48 SPAD VII is in a different league - it is gorgeous but very expensive - I got mine from Hannant's clearout sale for 24GBP - if you see one at a swap table, buy it! Sandy > > > > I am looking to buy an unbuilt and unstarted Blue Max 1/48 SPAD VII. > > You & me both. I might settle for a started one, though. It's barely > possible that Chris Gannon (Mr. Pegasus/Blue Max) still has a few of > these lying around. They were around $30 US incl. postage (?) > Sandy (another list member across the pond) will be able to fill in the > details or maybe point you in another direction. > Sandy? > > FWIW, > > Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:13:46 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Letter from Americal Gryphon Message-ID: <199809101748.SAA07257@beryl.sol.co.uk> 1. Al - continuing thanks for running the list and you have my (and I'm certain, everybody else's) continuing gratitude for doing so. I think we are all completely happy to accept your decision as final in any instance where you feel it necessary. If you ever needed support for any reason to do with this list, I would be more than happy to write to UNH extolling the positive virtues which your web page has brought in promoting the University even in this remote corner of the globe. I'm sure many others would too. 2. Dr Merril has raised many points - most of which I am sure we would all agree with. Reading it as an uninvolved bystander, I feel that any possible errors of copyright were through lack of thought rather than deliberate intent to defraud. Although I have not so far bought any AG product I have been brought much nearer doing so by this list and will at some early stage do (it's lack of credit card facilities which has stopped me in the past). I hope AG is still in business. However, rather than lamenting the fact that people seem to want copies of AG drawings - why not recognise the opportunity and publish these as a collection in book form in one or more volumes. I for one would certainly place a firm order right now for even a fairly expensive tome containing all that information! - anybody else? 3. I don't feel bad about sending a free copy of something to somebody when they cannot obtain it any other way - ie obscure foreign magazine articles, or long oop book that some dealer is trying to make a huge markup on. However let's be awfully careful in future that we do not blithely offer to scan a current Datafile, or whatever : we can learn from what's happened. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:49:39 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <199809101748.SAA07271@beryl.sol.co.uk> I've looked inside the Tripe at the RAF Museum and it, and all the other PC10 machines, as you would expect, show a linen colour, darkened by the application of the PC10 on the other side. FWIW, I use linen or CDL paint darkened with some brown for my RFC interiors. (I matched this up from the Strutter in the RAFM just before building the Tom's vacform and you can see this colour fairly clearly in the Strutter pictures Al put in the Images gallery recently) Sandy ---------- > From: Chris Cato > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Eduard Tripehound > Date: 10 September 1998 08:30 > > Having essentially finished up the Dako S.XVI that I've been working on for > a while, I've moved on to an Eduard Sopwith Triplane I intended to build > OOB. I've been trying to decide on colors for the interior cockpit sides. > At this point I have no real references on the Tripe nor have I been able > to find ones in local stores so I come to the list with a plea - was the > fabric CDL with PC10 painted over it? Should I try and show PC10 bleeding > through linen for the interior sides? I pretty sure I'm going to do this > one in the stripe markings the kit lists as for Jenner-Pearson's (sp?) Maud > - does anyone know the history of this craft? As an aside now that the > Dako kit is built up I have some questions about its accuracy but it does > build into an unmistakable S.XVI. I enjoyed it and may build another > corrected to be a production aircraft. > > Chris Cato > tcato@connix > > ps - As the person who initially requested information on von Hippel and > Jasta 5 I must offer my mea culpa in whatever hand I had in this incident. > Now that I've seen the quality and quantity of Dr. Merrill's research ( > instruction sheet is what I expected and research is what I got ) he will > get my order regardless of how he runs his business. The material is > unique, the decals are unique, and although I do not necessarily agree with > much of what Dr. Merrill has to say it seems it will be our loss if he goes > out of business. And with any luck that Jasta 5 book mentioned will be > available one day for my purchase! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:58:10 -0500 (CDT) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Letter from Americal Gryphon Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 Zulis@aol.com wrote: > > I read Dr.Merrill's letter yesterday, decided to sleep on it, and continue to > be equally disturbed by it today. Reading some of the response tells me that > others on the list feel as divided as I do. > > I think few would dispute that, regarding the core issue... the man is right. I know Glen Merrill personally and he is a "good guy" and a generous man. If his letter souned harsh, I'm sure it is because of frustration. peter > > The tone of the letter... the insults, the demeaning sarcasm, and even the > threats, are a different matter entirely. While recognizing that he has > decided not to proceed with (for now) the threat to Al and his livelihood, the > very suggestion makes me feel physically ill. This makes about as much > sense as going after IBM because some of us used IBM computers while doing our > postings. > > to be transmitted directly, especially plans...... It's dangerous to do this > because he might find out and it is every bit as illegal as the public posting > > > > Regarding legal action against list members, surely he realizes that these are > hollow threats. We are spread over at least a dozen countries around the > world and I can assure Mr.Merrill that the RCMP swat teams have better things > to do than knock down my door in the vain hopes of finding an illicit copy of > a profile from a $12 decal sheet. I will refrain from using copyrighted > material because using it would be WRONG, not because of an empty threat to > myself or, even worse, a rumbling of revenge upon Al. > > On a less emotional matter, I think he is mistaken in his assessment re: being > on the Internet. I, for one, have often purchased items from someone on the > net primarily because they are immediately accessible when I need something. > The turnaround time for ordering catalogues, then placing an order by mail, > and then finally having it sent, is not consistent with getting things done. > Surely, the electronic mail issue can be dealt with by using an order form > fomat to discourage emails for routine matters, and some ground rules on what > sorts of enquiries he will and will not be able to respond to. However, I > fully respect that this is his own business decision to make - just adding my > comment. I also have to add that his replacement/credit policy is > admirable, as described in the letter. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:01:04 -0500 (CDT) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Letter from Americal Gryphon Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, John Glaser wrote: > I must admit that it didn't take me long to hit the delete button on this > one. Glen Merrill make a trivial amount of money from his decals - if he makes any money at all. Thus we are far more dependent on him than he is on us !!!!!!!!!!! He is NOT primarily a business man. He is a geology professor and a WWI aviation historian. paf > > Indeed, I am one of the guilty co-conspirators in "Jasta-gate." However, if > I recall correctly, this transgression was discussed at length on the list > and the guilty were truly chastened and admonished regarding real or > intended copyright infringement. This showed the ability of our list to > maintain and enforce our own standards in this area, without resorting to > the idle threats and childish insults heaped collectively upon us by Dr. > Merrill. Hopefully we can continue on this path under the leadership of > list members such as Messrs. Weier and Wright and not face the prospect of > "pulling the plug" on our beloved list. > > As for the rest of Dr. Merrill's letter, what can we say? > > It is obvious to me that Dr. Merrill doesn't really enjoy his work. Someone > once told me that in order to really excel in your work, you need to truly > love what you do. Most successful business owners I know fit this > description to a "T". This fact has been lost on Dr. Merrill judged by his > description of his business as a chore performed reluctantly rather than a > labor of love. Perhaps he would find a business endeavor more to his liking > to be more profitable. > > Second point: You won't go very far in business, particularly in a narrow > niche market, by publicly complaining about or insulting your customer base. > Since Dr. Merrill eschews more aggressive marketing of his product > (internet) and views inquiries of potential customers as a nuisance > (e-mail), he is very much dependent upon repeat sales to our small group. I > don't know about the rest of you, but referring to me as an unappreciative > cave-dweller is not the way you inspire me to spend my hard earned dollars. > > The sad part is that A/G does produce a superior product that none of us, > short of hand painting, can find elsewhere. I shudder to think of > attempting my long delayed Gotha project without Dr. Merrill's decals. Will > the prospect of a 12-31-99 decal bonfire inspire me to buy now? I don't > know. > > Now before anyone flames me for unsolicited business advice to A/G, let me > say that I am a small business (computer consulting) catering to a niche > market (construction materials). I know that my clients don't give a hoot > about how hard I work or how much I spend to keep my skills current. All > they care about is a superior product, superior service at a fair price. If > I can't deliver that and make or save them money by what I do - I'm gone. > > I certainly wouldn't get very far by complaining about lack of appreciation > or by insulting them. I understand, and Americal Gryphon should understand, > that you are only as successful as your next sale. > > That's capitalism Dr. Merrill. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Libraries & copyright (was Customer Relations) Message-ID: Greetings, Mike and everybody! Just a quick note: I work for a library system, and we display copyright warning signs on or near all our reproducing equipment, at all our branches. This includes not only photocopiers, but also microfilm and fiche reader copiers, and etc. We do this both to inform the public, and to protect ourselves as an institution. According to the ALA/NEA "Copyright Primer," all libraries, public and academic, must display such warnings, according to section 108(f) of the Copyright Law, Title 17, U.S. Code. Not that all libraries necessarily comply with this requirement. Best wishes, patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:51:13 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <35F81190.4F876A7F@ix.netcom.com> You may need to check in the archive. I wrote a bit of information from Ian Huntley on PC.10 applications. Basically, there were several doping systems used, ranging from painting PC10 dope over clear dope to using PC10 pigmented dopes. It depends on the time period which order which dopes (and which types of dopes) were used. In addition, as a supplier to the RNAS, Sopwith used a third party supplier of a near PC10 dope, since the RAF had the rights for a while on the PC10 formulation. Because it was in the supply train, Sopwith continued to use their supplier even after they were permitted access to the genuine stuff. .Mark. TPTPUMPER@aol.com wrote: > Hi Chris! > > I am admittedly no expert on things PC.10, but I would point out that > generally the aircraft were doped with several coats of clear dope before the > color coats were applied, so I doubt that the color would bleed through. I > would dull down a CDL colorwith a little grey or something and paint the > interior fabric with that, to simulate CDL with no light showing through. The > German loz fabric shows through on the interior because the fabric was colored > before the clear dope was applied. HTH > > Have Fun!! > > IRA -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Zivich To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Thinning acrylics Message-ID: Yes, I agree that water can do the same in large amounts as alcohol. I would have mentioned that acrylic medium, either matte or gloss, should be used rather than either of the aforementioned, but I didn't think acrylic medium would work with airbrushing as I have had no experience with that practice. mzivich On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, D. Anderson wrote: > At 02:27 PM 07/09/98 -0400, you wrote: > >FWIW, I've used acrylics often, though not in model building,and my > >understanding is that alcohol may weaken the acrylic binder that keeps the > >pigment intact in acrylic paints. Sort of like using too much turpentine > >with oil based paints. The paint pigment then wants to return to its > >powdered form. A benign additive like distilled water sounds like a safe > >bet especially if you want "museum quality". > > I've never heard that before and I've never experienced any trouble in > years of airbrushing acrylics. But it does sound like a good excuse to be > environmentally friendly and use distilled water. By the way, according to > an old book on artists' materials, by an artist named Dore Watson, thinning > artists acrylics with too much water will do something similar to what you > describe alcohol doing, and that is why acrylic washes always look awful > when dry. > > Dane > > >mzivich > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:22:03 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Americal/Gryphon Message-ID: <199809102140.HAA15559@mimmon.mim.com.au> Mike, > I was wondering where the line gets drawn. I don't doubt the copyright >on the text, but some of the drawings Mr. Merrill used for the profiles >looked like copies of Windsock drawings. Say what? I have the originals of both jasta 5 instruction sheets and have no hesitation in saying that the rough sketches provided therein look absolutely nothing like any drawing ever published by Windsock. In fact, you need a little imagination to believe they're Albatrii at all - but then, the purpose is placement of the decals, not provision of plans Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:25:04 +0100 From: Geoff Smith To: wwi Subject: Re: Americal Message-ID: <35F843B0.698C@cwcom.net> Hi guys, I wasn't going to make a comment on either side because taken as a whole, i.e. the original problem, the list's reaction at the time, Dr. Merrill's message about the problem and the list's reaction to that, show plusses and minuses on both sides. Whether one set outweighs the other is down to opinion. However, I feel I have to make my views known on a few issues. With regard to the list itself, the most important thing at stake here should not be the list or the personalities directly involved, but the effect, if any and hopefully none, on the boss. Allan's career is the important thing and we should keep that consideration uppermost. The rest is irrelevant in comparison. I don't believe that Nigel's resignation serves any purpose other than to deprive us of his company but that's his right. The same goes for Mike and anyone else who feels like throwing himself on his sword. I consider that throwing anybody off the list is nothing more than making him the scapegoat and I'm not particularly keen on the "Off with his head" attitude, although it's Vincent's right to say it if he feels so strongly. I just don't happen to agree. So let's ALL stay where we are and accept that collectively we were out of order, understand that calling names, except in fun, is cheap and worth ignoring and try to help ourselves by sending Dr. Merrill orders. By the sound of it we're the only ones who'll benefit. BTW, wasn't Dr. Merrill a member of this very select electronic playpen at one time? Right, anyone for a bit of news? (The WWI connection is at the end). British Aerospace needed a proper name for EFA aka Eurofighter 2000 so they held a poll of the general public. BUT, since they didn't want to upset German partners DASA they didn't want anything politically incorrect (Don't mention ze vaar). Well they got some really good names like Whisp, English Rose and Grey Lady (yeah, well, obvious names for a fighter, right?), some prats even suggested Eagle and Hornet (haven't they been used by Hasegawa or Fujimi?) but eventually they chose Typhoon. No connection with the war there chaps. That won't upset'em ................ Not like BE.2 would have! I suggested Bert. Regards, Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:42:01 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <199809102158.HAA15672@mimmon.mim.com.au> Chris, > was the >fabric CDL with PC10 painted over it? Should I try and show PC10 bleeding >through linen for the interior sides? FWIW I'm on the side of those who think the preceding coats of shrinking dope (clear) would prevent any bleedthrough, though I concede that what I *don't* know about doping practices would fill a Datafile Special or two. But one other comment comes to mind. PC.10 or PC.12 ? Lots of red/brown tripeheounds I believe, though to be fair i don't know if this etended to Naval 8. Anyone else know more about this? Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:55:30 -0500 From: "Jim Elkins" To: Subject: Re: Americal Message-ID: <01bddd05$ba574b60$8537a497@default> >a proper name for EFA aka Eurofighter 2000 so >they held a poll of the general public. BUT, since they didn't want to >upset German partners DASA they didn't want anything politically >incorrect EF-109 Already taken? ! ? ;-) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:03:23 -0400 From: "Steven M. Perry" To: wwi Subject: RE: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980910180323.00745328@pop.mindspring.com> > Lots of red/brown tripeheounds I believe, though to be fair i don't know if this >etended to Naval 8. Anyone else know more about this? > >Shane > FWIW: The book No Parachute by A.G.Lee has a photo of Two Naval 8 triplanes. The shade looks a bit lighter than what one would expect for PC-10. Pictures of Pups & Camels in the same book appear darker. I don't have any idea how the Naval protective coating used at the time would photograph on ortho film, but the shade of gray on the two tripes is noticably lighter than the gray on the RFC planes also shown. sp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:49:35 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Eurofighter Message-ID: <199809102247.XAA13093@beryl.sol.co.uk> > British Aerospace needed a proper name for EFA aka Eurofighter 2000 so > they held a poll of the general public........... In the report I heard, the Brits, French, Danish, Norwegians etc all gave the name "Typhoon" the thumbs up - but the Germans, Austrians etc vetoed this in favour of something like "Gustav" or "Zerstoerer". So it appears that Squadrons of Typhoons will take off from Allied airfields in the year 2000 for manoeuvres with squadrons of Gustavs taking off from Axis airfields.... Why they didn't just name the bloody thing a Spitfire, I don't know (it translates well into German as "Achtung! Spitfeuer") Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:58:03 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Blue Max Sopwith Camel Question Message-ID: <199809102255.XAA13236@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > Question is, should I have received a set of grey lower wings, or am I > supposed to shorten the span of the white lower wings? Hi Mike - I haven't got the kit in front of me just now but its half built on the workbench. So, from memory - The 2F1 had slightly shorter wings so you use the grey lower wings and grey upper centre section. For the F1, you use the white lower wings and white upper centre section. The white upper outer wing panels are common to both aircraft. HTH Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:50:10 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Thinning acrylics Message-ID: <9d81097b.35f865b2@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-10 16:34:37 EDT, you write: << Yes, I agree that water can do the same in large amounts as alcohol. I would have mentioned that acrylic medium, either matte or gloss, should be used rather than either of the aforementioned, but I didn't think acrylic medium would work with airbrushing as I have had no experience with that practice. mzivich >> There's various brands of stuff on the market with names like " airbrush medium"- really just a thin sprayable substance which gives a tad more body to acylics than just plain water or alcohol. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:50:09 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: "Customer" relations Message-ID: <33f3216.35f865b1@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-10 13:32:59 EDT, you write: << Just a thank you to Robert K. for answering the questions on copyright law,....very good! I should have read ahead on the other postings, before posting. Best, Dave W. >> I believe 'twas the other Robert- "rojo" of the great "webzine" Chandelle. He did indeed clear a few of the murky waters! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:51:36 -0700 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: N.124 Bebe markings/serials Message-ID: <35F86608.1611@ricochet.net> I'm closing in on finishing my Smer, and I need to know if anyone has the following info: Did James McConnell fly the footprint machine or "MAC" or both? serials? What was Kiffin Rockwell's Nie. 11 serial? What were Victor Chapman's markings and what was his plane's serial? Anyone use Lone Star decals before? Anything I should know about them? TIA, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:51:38 -0700 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Tripehound Message-ID: <35F8741A.1D13@mars.ark.com> "was the fabric CDL with PC10 painted over it? Should I try and show PC10 bleeding through linen for the interior sides? Now I'm not much of a WWI expert, but I have owned a couple of 1:1 scale fabric covered aeroplanes in my time. I also have some maintenance publications from well before the "Second Great Unpleasantness". Whatever the era, it appears common that the clear dope was applied to shrink the fabric, then a coat of dope containing aluminum (aluminium for the Brits) paste to retard deterioration from solar radiation, then the pigmented dope. In this case, the aluminum dope would act as a barrier so there would be no bleed through of the pigmented dope (P.C.10 or whatever). Nieuports didn't get an overall coat of aluminum dope just to make them look pretty; great chunks of rotten CDL fabric disappearing aft in the slipstream was not conducive to a nice day for the pilot. Notice how quickly the RAF switched to aluminium finishes after the war - they didn't go back to CDL! How the Germans got around the deterioration problem with the lozenge-printed fabric, I won't hazard a guess - but they lost so their process wasn't continued. Dave Fletcher mdf@mars.ark.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:01:09 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Libraries & copyright (was Customer Relations) Message-ID: Patrick, > Greetings, Mike and everybody! Just a quick note: I work for a library > system, Ditto and we display copyright warning signs on or near all our > reproducing equipment, at all our branches. This includes not only > photocopiers, but also microfilm and fiche reader copiers, and etc. We do > this both to inform the public, and to protect ourselves as an > institution. According to the ALA/NEA "Copyright Primer," all libraries, > public and academic, must display such warnings, according to section > 108(f) of the Copyright Law, Title 17, U.S. Code. Not that all libraries > necessarily comply with this requirement. Yep, that's pretty well the way it works over here. However, publicly offering to breach copyright is a differenty kettle of fish entirely, however innocent the intention. In the spirit of Sandy's wise remark, I'm sure we've all learned from the experience. I think it's time to let it go: the "guilty" are contrite, the irate have vented their ire..........I'm heartily sorry that Al had to cop a couple of stray rounds, because we owe him * a great deal*. Admittedly I'm not a stakeholder in the whole sorry affair, but if it hurts Al, it hurts me. Hopefully it's now all over. Cheers, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1204 **********************