WWI Digest 1193 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Send the lozenge back to Australia by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 2) Re: Sandy's Models by KarrArt@aol.com 3) RE: Send the lozenge back to Australia by Shane Weier 4) Re: Benoist Airboat (+ off-topic request) by David & Carol Fletcher 5) Re: Send the lozenge back to Australia by Zulis@aol.com 6) Re: Chu Chin Chow (Camel N6345) by David & Carol Fletcher 7) Albatros Fabric by Shane Weier 8) VCR alert WINGS by Bob Pearson 9) Re: VCR Alert WINGS by Bob Pearson 10) Re: WW I naval: Jaureguiberry by Suvoroff@aol.com 11) Re: Chu Chin Chow (Camel N6345) by mbittner@juno.com 12) Re: Sandy's Models by mbittner@juno.com 13) Re: guynemer's N.11 by kevinkim@mail.interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) 14) Re: guynemer's N.11 by magnus family 15) Re: The list turns 4 by aew (Allan Wright) 16) Re: Ground cover by aew (Allan Wright) 17) Re: Mk.I Tank by GRBroman@aol.com 18) Re: Ground cover by GRBroman@aol.com 19) Re: Ground cover by GRBroman@aol.com 20) WWI Trench Art by "Denest, Michael J" 21) Re: Last Two! by "Allan Wright" 22) SPAD A.2 kit by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 23) Re: Ground cover by Joey Valenciano 24) Re: Ground cover by Alberto Rada 25) WTB: Some Aircraft Profiles by Larry Neal 26) Paint Mixtures -- Humbrol by The Shannons 27) Re: Albatros Fabric by Don Rinker 28) RE: Some Aircraft Profiles by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 29) RE: Ground cover by Shane Weier 30) RE: Ground cover by dianep@webtv.net (Diane Pessler) 31) FW: Albatros Fabric by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:16:29 -0700 From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Send the lozenge back to Australia Message-ID: At 09:01 PM 9/2/98 -0400, you wrote: > >So the fabric is quite probably genuine. As a member or the ASWW1AH and >a person interested in the matter, it grieves me that the fabric is >being sold on the open market, and isn't where it should be, in a >museum, for all of us to share. > >Shane > I don't know how much original fabric from this famous aircraft remains at the Australian War Museum. If, for whatever reasons, they have let all the original fabric slip out of their hands, this is a great loss to WW I aviation history. If this piece of fabric is only a small piece out of yards and yards of fabric stored in the AWM basement, then it's sale is historically irrelevant. However, if it is a unique historical relic, then it belongs back at the AWM. If it is historically significant, we should collectively purchase it and donate it back to the AWM in the name of the WW I Modelling List. Someone familiar with E-Bay Auctions should do the bidding. If our bid is successful, I pledge US$100.00 for it's purchase. Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:16:37 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Sandy's Models Message-ID: Godd stuff- but the best I could say now is that I think you've inspired me to think about some kind of Sopwith for my next scratchbuilt! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:25:08 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Send the lozenge back to Australia Message-ID: <199809030442.OAA27396@mimmon.mim.com.au> Fernando > If this piece of fabric is only a small piece out of yards and yards of >fabric stored in the AWM basement, then it's sale is historically >irrelevant. However, if it is a unique historical relic, then it belongs >back at the AWM. > If it is historically significant, we should collectively purchase it and >donate it back to the AWM in the name of the WW I Modelling List. Someone >familiar with E-Bay Auctions should do the bidding. If our bid is >successful, I pledge US$100.00 for it's purchase. Whoa !! A marvelous idea, but having looked at the pic, and re-reading erics letter, I am far from certain this isn't a fake (as Don suggested) . Everyone, hold off on any such lovely ideas for 24 hours while I make some phone calls please. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:45:11 -0700 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: "Steven M. Perry" , Subject: Re: Benoist Airboat (+ off-topic request) Message-ID: <35EE1ED7.7C0A@mars.ark.com> Steven M. Perry wrote: snip "The Benoist airboat is a subject I've always wanted to model since I went to see the 50th annaversary flight by a replica as a kid..." Eureka! I have the plans in the Oct. 11, 1913 copy of "Aero and Hydro" (and no, smartasses, I didn't buy the magazine new...) along with a full page description. If anyone else wants the plans, please advise me - I think that I am safe to say that the copyright has expired. "I'm looking for information on colors & markings for Stinson L-5 Sentinels as flown in Burma" There were a couple of articles in FlyPast magazine in the last year or so, but I haven't found where I hid them yet. I'll keep looking. Dave Fletcher mdf@mars.ark.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:00:52 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Send the lozenge back to Australia Message-ID: In a message dated 98-09-03 00:25:59 EDT, you write: << If this piece of fabric is only a small piece out of yards and yards of fabric stored in the AWM basement, then it's sale is historically irrelevant. However, if it is a unique historical relic, then it belongs back at the AWM. If it is historically significant, we should collectively purchase it and donate it back to the AWM in the name of the WW I Modelling List. Someone familiar with E-Bay Auctions should do the bidding. If our bid is successful, I pledge US$100.00 for it's purchase. >> Great idea, Fernando. I also agree with Shane, regarding action. Count me in for a contribution if: 1) We are reasonably sure that it is genuine and historically significant. 2) We have some reassurance that they WANT it back (presumably will take precautions to avoid this happening again.) If you wish, I am prepared to take care of the ebay part. To avoid a lot of Canadian/US money conversion, however, this might better be done by a list member and ebay user in the U.S. Dave Zulis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:00:38 -0700 From: David & Carol Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Chu Chin Chow (Camel N6345) Message-ID: <35EE2276.3250@mars.ark.com> mgoodwin@ricochet.net wrote: > AFAIK, there were few Chinese fighter pilots in WWI. Etienne Tsu, was > one of them, and he served in the N.37, achieving at least three aerial > victories while flying an Nie. 17 and Spad VII. Short article in > Windsock 9/5. Let me know if you'd like a copy. The May 4, 1912 copy of "Aero" has a picture of "Tom Gunn, first Chinese pilot" - I don't know the story, but he is pictured holding both Chinese (?) and American flags. If you need a copy for your "Oriental aviation studies", let me know. (Not too bad a library for a WWII model builder IMHO...) Dave Fletcher mdf@mars.ark.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:42:15 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: Albatros Fabric Message-ID: <199809030558.PAA27970@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hello all, Some info and discussion of the fabric now being auctioned on eBay. >From the description on eBay: eBay>> Fabric bears traces of black and white paint of the Maltese Cross eBay>> wing insignia. This fabric is accompanied by a hand written 1966 eBay>> letter from the Head Conservator of WWI Aircraft at the Australian eBay>> War Museum, where this plane is (or was) housed. This relic was eBay>> removed from the plane to document color pattern for restoration eBay>> and then passed into private hands by the Head Conservator The following quote is from a letter written by the late Eric Watson OAM, to me in late 1996. He was then president of the Australian Society of WW1 Aviation Historians, and had been a member of the restoration team responsible for the 1966 restoration of D.5390/17. Verification of his participation in this can be confirmed by the fact that *all* the photographic documantation of the restoration was done by him - some of the shots (attributed) are reproduced in the Albatros Fighters Datafile Special. Eric Watson > "Getting back to the main upper plane - when received, Eric Watson >this was covered with quite a thick, poorly-applied coat Eric Watson >of matte black paint, which had obviously been done Eric Watson >long after WW1 - and probably while in AWM storage. Eric Watson >When we stripped this off we were surprised to find that Eric Watson >it was not aircraft fabric, but a canvas type material" Eric Watson > (some snippage of unrelated matters, then the subject turned to markings) Eric Watson > Eric Watson >The top wing had two very innaccurately drawn Eiserne Eric Watson >Kreuz on its upper surface. These appear to have been Eric Watson >formed simply by painting a white outline onto the Eric Watson >already black-painted upper surface Frankly, this alone is enough to make me doubt the authenticity of the fabric. Genuine lozenge fabric was removed from the underside of the upper wing, and the top of the lower wing. The upper surface was *canvas*, and painted black, the Kreuz in white outline on black, so a Eiserne Kreuze in black on loz is not possible UNLESS the fabric is from a previous restoration, YET the authenticating documents claim its from the 1966-1968 work. So what if the fabric is *lower* loz? Back to Eric Watson again: Eric Watson >The underside of the lower wings still had light Eric Watson > blue paint, which was assumed to be original Eric Watson >because the equally innacurate Eiserne Kreuze Eric Watson >superimposed on a white disk - which was applied Eric Watson >to cover the British Roundels, painted over original Eric Watson >German markings at the time when this machine Eric Watson >when this machine was given official no G101 and Eric Watson >used for evaluation trials. So if it's underside loz - where is the blue paint? It's worthwhile looking at the photo IWM Q226826 which confirms the aircraft had lower surface of lower wing in *blue*. And the crosses weren't painted under the *upper* wing, so this isn't where it came from either ! Frankly, having looked at the fabric picture, which has none of the outlining normally seen (although it reproduces so poorly I've even hesitated to bet on whether it was intended to be upper or lower !) and seeing no blue paint, plus being (personally) utterly sure the upper fabric was bogus in 1966, I suspect this fabric is - as Don suggested - a rip off. Although I'd love to be responsible for returning a chunk of dinkum (Aussie for "real") loz to the AWM, I don't imagine anyone would thank me for costing list members hundreds of dollars in pursuit of a chimera. I think we'd better leave it alone, Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:45:47 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: VCR alert WINGS Message-ID: <05454737501016@KAIEN.COM> Greetings all, Just flipping through the channels and the Canadian Discovery Channel is presently running an episode of WINGS -this one is on the early days of the RFC/RAF. In the few minutes I have been watching it has featured the Sopwith Dolphin - and they even called it a Dolphin :-) Bristol Fighter SE5a Camel Pup Only 20 minutes left, but it should be rebroadcast at 1am Pacific time - and heremy VCR is screwed, but I'll try to tape it anyway Regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:56:40 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: VCR Alert WINGS Message-ID: <05564044401033@KAIEN.COM> And they are now interviewing a former RNAS pilot involved in u-boat patrol and showed Short 184s in flight A Felixstowe in motion . . . A Curtiss H-12 being trundled into the water Boy my $%^&* VCR better work in two hours . .. .. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:44:57 EDT From: Suvoroff@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I naval: Jaureguiberry Message-ID: Dane and Joey; Send me your Postal Addresses off-list and I will forward you what I have. Yours, James D. Gray (P.S. Massena, Dupuy de Lome, and La Hoche are the ugliest by a decent margin...actually I think the Jaureguiberry is ATTRACTIVE.) JDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:45:52 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Chu Chin Chow (Camel N6345) Message-ID: <19980903.050437.-131333.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:54:10 -0400 REwing@aol.com writes: >Well, I feel pretty stupid. Sounded like a pilot to me! Thanks for >setting >me straight. I'll ask my wife if she has any relatives by that name. >Tomorrow I will take her on a snipe hunt. What are you flying, Pfalz D.XII's? :-) Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:47:18 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Sandy's Models Message-ID: <19980903.050437.-131333.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:24:46 -0400 KarrArt@aol.com writes: >Godd stuff- but the best I could say now is that I think you've >inspired me to >think about some kind of Sopwith for my next scratchbuilt! Yes, wonderful job, Sandy! That Short appears to be quite huge! Hmmm...there's a pun in there, somewhere... Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:07:51 -0500 From: kevinkim@mail.interlog.com (Kevin & Kimberley Barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: guynemer's N.11 Message-ID: Al informs us: >Al Magnus >Regina, SK >Canada Hey, it's another Canuck on the list! Well, the Aussies just got a new fellow, so turn around is fair play. Welcome to Al from the list Canadians stretching from BC to the Maritimes. Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 06:26:12 -0700 From: magnus family To: wwi Subject: Re: guynemer's N.11 Message-ID: <35EE98F4.6A37@cableregina.com> Kevin & Kimberley Barrett wrote: > > Al informs us: > > >Al Magnus > >Regina, SK > >Canada > > Hey, it's another Canuck on the list! Well, the Aussies just got a new > fellow, so turn around is fair play. Welcome to Al from the list Canadians > stretching from BC to the Maritimes. > > Kevin Barrett. Hi Kevin, Thanks for the greeting. If my little time on this list is an indication, I'll have few problems getting answers and help to my questions, and I do have a lot of them. Just need the time to go through all those messages though! Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:36:37 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: The list turns 4 Message-ID: <199809031236.IAA12444@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:15:31 -0400 Mick Fauchon > writes: > > > Nope, thanks to Al.......because without him, we wouldn't be > >here. Well, I would have pulled the plug a long time ago if you all weren't such a 'good group of blokes' as the Brits say. I get more from this list than I put in, that's for sure! My thanks to all of you! -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:37:36 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Ground cover Message-ID: <199809031237.IAA12487@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > I have a base made for the Mk.whatever series of tanks. What I want to > ask the collective list is: how should I paint this? Right now it's > "Celluclay Gray", and although it doesn't look bad, it seems rather > bland. Ideas? Glen? Don't overlook getting some woodland scenics turf and ballast and throwing some of each in small patches. White glue secures it well...... -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:51:55 EDT From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Mk.I Tank Message-ID: <27c3f81c.35ee90eb@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-02 14:46:20 EDT, you write: << Awhile ago I asked someone from the UK to check into a company producing resin parts for the Airfix Mk.I. Unfortunately I deleted all that email. Was anything found out? Also unfortunate I can't remember the company's name. Anybody else - Glen, maybe - know about these aftermarket resin bits? I'm chomping to start another Airfix kit, and really want to replace those god-awful tracks. >> Yes sir, I think I can help out. Through the kind help of a Gentleman whom I correspond with in the UK, I should be getting some info from Matador models, plus whatever Bittner scale stuff he can dig up on the show circuit. He's on holidays right now, but he should be sending me some info as soon as he returns. I'll post the particu;ars on the list for the rest of the resident "tankies/treadheads". Glen P.S. Congratulations Matt, I believe that you now have a scale named after you. Do you remember when it used to be called " The Scale of Hustad?" :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:52:17 EDT From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Ground cover Message-ID: <13b221c.35ee9101@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-03 00:37:42 EDT, you write: << > I have a base made for the Mk.whatever series of tanks. What I want to > ask the collective list is: how should I paint this? What is the FS number for mud? >> That depends, Flanders mud has a darker hue than Somme mud, which actualy tends more to a whitish tinge due to the chalk. Of course, if we are talking about Bovington mud for a training vignette, we are talking about a much darker and greenish-grey mud. I heartily recommend Von Wiedenschlagers " Grossen Tafelbuch des Mud Den Westfront" Volumes I-VI. The color profiles are awesome and the colors are matched to BSC, FS and RAL. The final chapter also cross references to Tamiya, Polly Scale, Humbrol and most of the other popular paint breands. In the interim, try Tamiya dark brown :) Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:52:16 EDT From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Cc: GRBroman@aol.com Subject: Re: Ground cover Message-ID: In a message dated 98-09-02 23:38:30 EDT, you write: << I have a base made for the Mk.whatever series of tanks. What I want to ask the collective list is: how should I paint this? Right now it's "Celluclay Gray", and although it doesn't look bad, it seems rather bland. Ideas? Glen? >> One of our less " Diorama challenged" club members has a neat technique involving acrylics in a base coat, wash and drybrush technique. I believe I have bits of an article he wrote in a back issue of our newsletter. I'll try to dig it up. He also added some hand made barbed wire out of fuse wire for that classic "tank crush wire" look. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:00:44 -0400 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: WWI Trench Art Message-ID: <31E6187EA8D0D111ACFE00805FE643DC74AF4C@xch-phl-06.he.boeing.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=28537256. The artwork is a Be2C on a section of propeller removed from a crashed aircraft, signed by the artist in 1916. FWIW Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:25:27 -0400 From: "Allan Wright" To: "Sandy Adam" Cc: wwi Subject: Re: Last Two! Message-ID: <9809030925.ZM12871@pease1.sr.unh.edu> On Sep 2, 10:43pm, Sandy Adam wrote: > Subject: Last Two! > > Hi Al, got there at last. This is all for a while - it'll take me another > two years to build some more to take pictures of! Well, it certianly is a great collection. I've put these last four on the page. If the page loads slowly I may be inclined to break your page up into sections like Steve Hustad's. For yours I was thinking, Central Powers, Sopwith Collection, Other Allied A/C. -Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:55:25 EDT From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: SPAD A.2 kit Message-ID: <5bbe7af.35ee9fcd@aol.com> Hi Kids! Within the last week or two somebody was looking for a kit of the SPAD A.2 in 1/72. Since I won't get to mine by the time Rosemont rereleases it, I will offer mine for sale to that individual, at replacement cost. Please respond off-List. Thanks! Have Fun!! IRA TPTPUMPER@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:42:48 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Ground cover Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980904014248.00903bd0@philonline.com.ph> >I heartily recommend Von Wiedenschlagers " >Grossen Tafelbuch des Mud Den Westfront" Volumes I-VI. I searched ABE. It's not avialable probably all sold out. :-( >The color profiles >are awesome and the colors are matched to BSC, FS and RAL. I thought top views would be sufficient but on second thought, profiles/cut-aways would be good for dug up trenches and bomb craters. >The final chapter >also cross references to Tamiya, Polly Scale, Humbrol and most of the other >popular paint breands. If only aircraft books were this complete! >In the interim, try Tamiya dark brown :) Glen Barbarian! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:31:41 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Ground cover Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980903143141.007d0e50@argonaut.net> ROFWL 100 Points SALUDOS Alberto At 08:55 AM 03-09-98 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-09-03 00:37:42 EDT, you write: > ><< > I have a base made for the Mk.whatever series of tanks. What I want to > > ask the collective list is: how should I paint this? > > What is the FS number for mud? >> > > >That depends, Flanders mud has a darker hue than Somme mud, which actualy >tends more to a whitish tinge due to the chalk. Of course, if we are talking >about Bovington mud for a training vignette, we are talking about a much >darker and greenish-grey mud. I heartily recommend Von Wiedenschlagers " >Grossen Tafelbuch des Mud Den Westfront" Volumes I-VI. The color profiles >are awesome and the colors are matched to BSC, FS and RAL. The final chapter >also cross references to Tamiya, Polly Scale, Humbrol and most of the other >popular paint breands. In the interim, try Tamiya dark brown :) Glen > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:39:34 MDT From: Larry Neal To: wwi Subject: WTB: Some Aircraft Profiles Message-ID: <199809032039.OAA07491@tcwb467.col.hp.com> Hi gang! I'm looking for the following Profiles to round out my library: # Title 1 SE 5A 133 B.E. 2, 2a & 2b 139 Bristol Scouts C & D 151 O. Aviatik (Berg) D I 175 Phoenix Scouts 181 DH 5 199 Pfalz D XII If anyone has or knows where I could get these (especially #181 & #199) I'd appreciate hearing about the cost etc. Thanks, Larry. larryn@col.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 15:49:42 -0500 From: The Shannons To: WWI Subject: Paint Mixtures -- Humbrol Message-ID: <35EF00E5.4E5A3CD5@ix.netcom.com> I cannot really contribute odd colors for authentic matching, but I can pass on a few mixtures that I have from Niel Robinsons SCALE MODELS article that are not on the website (i.e., the French 5-Color are already there). These are all Humbrol paints PC10: 3p #108 RFC Green + 1p #29 Dark Earth Brown 1p #102 Army Green + 1p #98 Chocolate Clear Doped Linen: Fresh: 3p #74 Linen + 1p #22 Gloss White (yellowish tones) 4p #103 Cream + 1p #22 Gloss White (bone/ivory tone) Aged: 1p #72 Khaki Drill + 2p #159 Khaki Drab + 2p #34 Matt White + 4p #103 Cream (This exactly equals the old HN4 Deck Bleached Teak in any light) The above, but use only 1p #159 and use 2p #72 -- reduces the green overtones. 9p #74 Linen + 4p #103 Cream + 2p #72 Khaki Drill + 5p #34 White + 1p #159 Khaki Drab (for those who can do math, yes this is equal to a 1:1 mixture of the above with the top fresh CDL formulation) 10p #34 Matt White + 2p #103 Cream + 1p #72 Khaki Drill (a very faded, greyish-tan) 11p #103 Cream + 4p #22 White + 1p #159 Khaki Drab + 2p #72 Khaki Drill 5p #103 Cream + 1p #72 Khaki Drill -- Pretty much a clean caramel color "Light Grey" (German) 9p #34 White + 1p #72 Khaki Drill + 1p #159 Khaki Drab + 1p #92 Iron Grey (~FS.36357) (With 1part each of the four paints, this is a dead-on match for second unpleasantness RLM Grau 02) Light grey (RFC/RNAS): #106 Ocean Grey #64 Medium Grey Varnished Wood: #110 Natural Wood dry brushed with the first aged CDL mixture, #10 Service Brown, and #71 Oak. After doing washes and inks on this, seal with a THIN coat of 1p Tamiya Clear Red + 1p Tamiya Clear Green, then any gloss or semigloss clear-coat. Mask off a panel at a time to do the dry brushing, and this will give a indistinctly boundaried "panel edge" effect. (For some reason, the Tamiya clear colors flocculate out in Future, so it is difficult to get a a tinted clear coat. They do seem to mix better with the PollyScale clear coats, so that is a way -- but I find it easier to apply a thin spray using distilled water and an airbrush or a flat brush. This clear brown coat gives a good impression of a deep varnish coat and acts to 'meld' the wood colors together.) I've put a lot of my own rubbish in here, so take it with some care. The PC10, the first of each group of the CDL, and the British greys are translated to the current Humbrol numbers from Niel Robinson's feature on Spads in the June 1980 SCALE MODELS, the others are my own US$0.02. Hope you think these are useful. .Mark. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:23:32 -0400 From: Don Rinker To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros Fabric Message-ID: <35EF08D4.5B13ADFD@fast.net> Shane Weier wrote: > > Frankly, having looked at the fabric picture, which has none of the > outlining normally seen (although it reproduces so poorly I've even > hesitated to bet on whether it was intended to be upper or lower !) and > seeing no blue paint, plus being (personally) utterly sure the upper > fabric was bogus in 1966, I suspect this fabric is - as Don suggested - > a rip off. > > Although I'd love to be responsible for returning a chunk of dinkum > (Aussie for "real") loz to the AWM, I don't imagine anyone would thank > me for costing list members hundreds of dollars in pursuit of a chimera. > I think we'd better leave it alone, > > Shane Good thinking... :-) I looked at it again, and being the owner of several authentic ( really.... I didn't make em in the rudder shop) pieces of lozenge fabric, I'm even more convinced this is a fake. THere's no outlining, the colors are wayyy too strong, and almost all printed lozenge ( even when new) showed some threads on the durface that never took the dye properly, giving a lightening effect. The photo "could" show the effects of many top coats of 80 year old varnish, but I have my doubts..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:26:06 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Some Aircraft Profiles Message-ID: <01BDD757.8DE28080.panz-meador@vsti.com> larry: check the UTD library site at: http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/aeroclassics/Page1.html they are broken out by books and profiles. i've bought several, and they are nice folks to deal with. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Larry Neal [SMTP:larryn@col.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: WTB: Some Aircraft Profiles Hi gang! I'm looking for the following Profiles to round out my library: # Title 1 SE 5A 133 B.E. 2, 2a & 2b 139 Bristol Scouts C & D 151 O. Aviatik (Berg) D I 175 Phoenix Scouts 181 DH 5 199 Pfalz D XII If anyone has or knows where I could get these (especially #181 & #199) I'd appreciate hearing about the cost etc. Thanks, Larry. larryn@col.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:44:28 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Ground cover Message-ID: <199809032201.IAA01403@mimmon.mim.com.au> Glen, talking through his hat, says: >> What is the FS number for mud? >> >The color profiles >are awesome and the colors are matched to BSC, FS and RAL. I just can't BELIEVE that people are still trying to match the colour of mud to BSC, RAL and FS charts. Surely *everyone* knows that these charts are designed only to match government supplied mud, and as such will be at best a poor substitute for a proper generalised mud matching system. I recommend you match the mud using the Methuen Universal Discriminator - Pigment and Tone Colour Handbook (MUDPATCH) for far more precise results Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT) From: dianep@webtv.net (Diane Pessler) To: wwi Subject: RE: Ground cover Message-ID: <7362-35EF1148-2711@mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I am looking for the book _How To Build A WWI Diorama Featuring Muddy Ground And Shellholes_, part of the series of WWI Diorama Construction Made So Simple Even An Untalented Novice Can Do It guides. Anyone know where I can get it or just give me the highlights? Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:22:44 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: FW: Albatros Fabric Message-ID: <199809032238.IAA01579@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hi guys I've had an email from the vendor of the fabric,,which includes the text of the letter with the fabric. Out of interest I'll include it with my commentary aftewards. names of the protagonists removed by me BTW. >Dear Mr. D...., >I was very pleased to hear from you especially as we have mutual interests in >WWI and Richthofen. You certainly have been interested in the subject of the >Baron for a long time. You must have some very interesting and pertinent >information. I would certainly like to exchange photos and photostats. I have >a few Richthofen relics such as identity papers, compass diviation (sic) chart >from DR 425, a piece of wing fabric with cross. I also have a number of taped >interviews with people directly connected with his last flight, in one way or >another. >One of my interests is WWI aircraft, and this is more or less the reason for >my delay in replying to your letter. I have for many years wished to be in the >position to restore some of our WWI aircraft held at the Australian War >Memorial. Recently after one of my visits to Canberra I have been informed >by the War Memorial that they have accepted my proposal to restore Albatros D5 >to it's captured condition. A collegue of mine has an aviation museum at >Camden, about 40m. south of Sydney and the work will be done there. I have >some of the top wing fabric which proves it was lozenge pattern. I will let >you have some as soon as we reproduce the colors of upper + lower 5 colour >pattern. >My other interest is radio control WWI planes such as D7 Pfalz D111 Bristol >Monoplane M1.C and D.8. about half finished so far. >I should be able to let you have 35mm colour slides of the Alb. D5 in exchange >for something similar if you like. I will be looking forward to your next >letter. >Yours most Sincerely, >Neville H..... Well part of this rings true. Mr H was the instigator of the last restoration, and also the man who was given the original fabric for return to the AWM. He is also noted as having sold a large quantity of fabric through WW1 Aero prior to his death. So it's certainly possible that the *real* fabric never ever got back to the AWM, or was gifted back to him by the then curator who was a friend of his. (Something which wouldn't happen nowadays, but in the 60's ....who knows) But I'm not convinced. The letter could be genuine and the fabric faked (by H. or another party). I've gotta be suspicious of Mr H given that he too claims ownership of one of the 2000 crosses painted on MvR's triplane. I think I'll pass this on to the AWM. They claimed no knowledge of the whereabouts of the fabric when I last visited ("lost or stolen") and given that the plane is about to be restored again it may pique their interest. Regards Shane ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1193 **********************