WWI Digest 1189 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Shameless Marketing Attempt (SIDNA List) by Patrick Wilson 2) New topic - definitely not Boering by Geoff Smith 3) Re: New topic - definitely not Boering by Joey Valenciano 4) Re: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 5) Re: interesting entry by KarrArt@aol.com 6) Re: Blatant self-promotion by KarrArt@aol.com 7) USAS emblem relics by "Jim Elkins" 8) Re: Blatant self-promotion by "Lee Mensinger" 9) Re: Home Establishment by "Andy Kemp" 10) Re: Wanted: One Ballon Killer by "Brad Gossen" 11) RE: new to the wwi list by Pedro e Francisca Soares 12) RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by Shane Weier 13) RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 14) RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by Shane Weier 15) New Kits by Ross Bronkhurst 16) RE: New Kits by Shane Weier 17) Re: new to the wwi list by Mike Fletcher 18) I'm back...I think by bucky@ptdprolog.net 19) Re: New Kits by KarrArt@aol.com 20) Re: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by Mike Fletcher 21) Re: Blatant self-promotion by Mike Fletcher 22) Re: New Kits by Bob Pearson 23) Re: British WW1 colors by knut.erik.hagen@eunet.no (Knut Erik Hagen) 24) RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by Shane Weier 25) Re: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality by KarrArt@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 13:24:20 -0400 From: Patrick Wilson To: wwi Subject: Re: Shameless Marketing Attempt (SIDNA List) Message-ID: <35EC2DC4.C1B252FC@comversens.com> --------------0EFF5699EB8AD51A2931DBD5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are the Halberstadt and Pfalz gone yet? -- Patrick Wilson Andover Highlands x3008 --------------0EFF5699EB8AD51A2931DBD5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are the Halberstadt and Pfalz gone yet? 
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                                        Patrick Wilson
                                        Andover Highlands
                                        x3008
  --------------0EFF5699EB8AD51A2931DBD5-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:06:03 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: WWI List Subject: New topic - definitely not Boering Message-ID: <199809011306_MC2-5805-AE5A@compuserve.com> Joey, you wrote: >Nooooooo! Not for me. Uset to do it that way and chanted "no pain, no gain" >while I was at it. One day I wised up and heeded Bob Norgen's advice. Ge= t >an Xacto knife w/ a curve edged blade (#12?) and scrape away at the >plastic. Yes, it will appear uneven but you will quickly learn how much >pressure you need to apply to remove the desired amount of plastic. You'= ll >finish up fuselage halves very fast this way. Every now and then, put th= e> >parts up against a light to see how translucent the flash is becoming. >After a very short time, it will become paper thin and you'll be able to= >tear/peel it away. Work on the wings in a similar manner although with >wings, the area to be thinned down is much larger. Use the scraping meth= od >and smoothen the scrapes with 150 grit sandpaper as needed. I'll run that past you again, >Nooooooo! Not for me. Uset to do it that way Uset ? Who is Uset ? What unit ? What aircraft ? Have you any colour schemes ? Tell us more ! ;-) Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 01:31:37 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: New topic - definitely not Boering Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980902013137.008ea840@philonline.com.ph> >Uset ? Who is Uset ? What unit ? What aircraft ? Have you any colour >schemes ? Tell us more ! ;-) He once had a drink w/ Albert Bald :-b..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <199809011736.KAA20700@ednet1.orednet.org> Jack writes: -snips- >In general, does a Smer or similar kit with only minor modification and a few >added details even have a chance in a contest against OOB DML, Eduard, etc? Probably not. Now if the DML model has unfilled seams, fingerprints on the paint, and mis-aligned wings, ya' might have a chance! :-) But, if you think about it, this is fair. No judge or set of judges can be familiar with all the possible kits used as starting places for the models they judge. If they start awarding bonus points for using a "dog" of a kit for a model, what are they to do when they come across a model built from a kit they've never built, never seen, and possibly never heard of? Subconsciously, I'm sure this "dog" factor comes into play occassionally but it really shouldn't - it should be the final model itself which is being judged. Now, if you've taken a "dog" Smer and made it look just as good as an out-of-the-box DML or Eduard, you probably get my vote on the tie breaker, however. Cheers and all, Bill -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "Look, strange women lying on their backs in ponds handing out swords - that's no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:41:08 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: interesting entry Message-ID: In a message dated 98-09-01 08:05:10 EDT, you write: << >"My father flew RE 8s in1917 . I have log books and diary. I have questions >for example what is meant by a notation in the log [ NF patrol] >Thank you" > >Robert K. Robert: Could NF Patrol be Night Fighter (or Flight) Patrol? Maybe he was up looking for Gothas or Zeps? Just a thought. Kevin Barrett.>> NF meaning "night flight" is pretty much my guess also. I'm going to follow up on this one! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:41:06 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Blatant self-promotion Message-ID: <46f57de6.35ec31b2@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-01 12:21:40 EDT, you write: << Greetings all, Well it is done . . . . The first issue of Internet Modeler is now up at http://www.avsim.com/mike/awn/ (We'll have our own name soon) Lots of WW1 content, lots of off-topic stuff, reviews, etc. Also please take a moment to fill out the survey. Regards, Bob Pearson >> A fine effort, and I'm sure the WW I content will continue! Also- everybody give it look and read the editorial- good stuff about having fun and enjoyment instead of having model building turn into a chore. IRA shgould love it! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:12:04 -0500 From: "Jim Elkins" To: Subject: USAS emblem relics Message-ID: <01bdd5d4$060f7020$8337a497@default> The USAF museum at Wright Patterson AFB has several original squadron emblems from USAS aircraft. The entire site is worth looking at, but the URL for the emblems is http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/ww1/ww1ins1.htm JIM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 13:25:01 -0500 From: "Lee Mensinger" To: wwi Subject: Re: Blatant self-promotion Message-ID: <35EC3BFC.B6807141@wireweb.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > Greetings all, > > Well it is done . . . . The first issue of Internet Modeler is now up > at > http://www.avsim.com/mike/awn/ (We'll have our own name soon) > > Lots of WW1 content, lots of off-topic stuff, reviews, etc. > > Also please take a moment to fill out the survey. > > Regards, > Bob Pearson Been there, done that. Enjoyed the whole thing. Gonna do it again. Often.Lee Mensinger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:38:57 +0100 From: "Andy Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Home Establishment Message-ID: <009601bdd5e0$48a1dd40$c778e8c3@whatever> Greetings, o Bob! 18th Reserve Wing was based at Duke Street, St James, London; and was part of the Eastern Group Command, based at the Holborn Viaduct Hotel, London. Training outfit. Reference CCI 25/1. 36th Wing ... gawd knows :-) Cheers, Andy -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson To: Multiple recipients of list Date: 31 August 1998 19:38 Subject: Home Establishment > >Greetings all, > >Yet another query from Lannie Liggera, this time it is on Home >Establishment. We are wondering if anyone knows what Nos. 18 and 36 wings >were doing in early 1918 - Training or Home Defence .. . or? > >Regards, > Bob Pearson > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:33:01 -0400 From: "Brad Gossen" To: Subject: Re: Wanted: One Ballon Killer Message-ID: <199809012033.QAA00446@smtp2.globalserve.net> Bob Just for the record the RAF also took a crack at it with no success. The British press seems to have neglected to mention this fact. We did hit the balloon and it is in fact going down at a rate of approximately 3000 ft per fortnight. I hear the British parliament is demanding 56 sqdn be recalled to defend London! The Russians are currently scouring their retirement homes in an attempt to find the missile crew that brought down Gary Powers. Meanwhile our diplomats in Japan are busy trying to squelch rumours that this is a delayed reprisal for the Japanese paper balloon incendiary attack on your home town in 1945. On a more relevant note, I just picked up an Czech HR model of the Fokker D11 in 1:72. Very basic, requires lots of sanding of surface detail on wings and fuselage but dimensions don't appear too bad ( I haven't actually measured it). A little pricey at $31.95 Cdn (which as of this morning was about $4.95 US)! Brad ---------- > From: Bob Pearson > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Wanted: One Ballon Killer > Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 5:38 PM > > > > > Bob wrote: > > > > > > >>Have you heard about the 50 story Canadian weather balloon that got away > = > > >and > > >>refuses to be shot down? > > > > >>Where are the Zep-strafers when you need them? > > > > The radio news this morning quoted a member of the Canadian Air Force as > > saying, "If you really want to bring down a balloon, you put millionaire > > Steve Fossett on it"! > > > > That greatly improved my drive to work! > > > > See YA, > > JIM > > HA !!! further on this, it has been reported on the CBC that the Canadians > that attempted to deflate the balloon were the same ones who won the recent > William Tell (or whatever it is called) competition, leading the British > press to report that TOP GUNS CAN'T HIT BALLOON. > > regards, > Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:26:33 +0200 From: Pedro e Francisca Soares To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: new to the wwi list Message-ID: <01BDD5F7.FC5E0360@fei1-p2.telepac.pt> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD5F7.FC65A480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: mbittner@juno.com [SMTP:mbittner@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 12:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: new to the wwi list Matt answered Al Magnus: .I have a copy of the Americal instructions for N.3 (until I buy a set for myself - which I will!). In comparing the two for Guynemer's Nie.11, March 1916: Toko's "Vieux-Charles" is way too big.=20 And in quite a wrong type of "font". The "Font" Toko used is closer to = the type of lettering that would later appear on Guynemer SPADs, and = which as far as I can tell was also different from a/c to a/c. Americal shows "Le Vieux Charles" as a smaller script, that fits under the cockpit, extending past both sides of the cockpit only a little. Unfortunately, I can't find any photo's of this machine. I have one which shows it quite clearly. I'll let you see it if you're = interested in it Al. Toko and Americal also don't agree on the serial. Toko has it as "315", while Americal has it as "N 836" (yes, the "N" is missing from the Toko sheet). However, Americal lists it with a question mark, so it could be 315. =20 HTH. Matt Bittner To make matters worse, I have Carpena sheet 72.39 "Guynemer et les = Cygognes" that adds quite a lot to the confusion since it states: - N 315 could be the Nieuport X on which Guynemer achieved 3 victories = between dec.1915 and feb 1916. - Vieux Charles in capitals is for one of Guynemer's first N.10 = two-seaters So, Toko's decals would be right for a Ni X, not an XI The only decals they have on the sheet for a XI are for n 836 (?) = "Vieux Charles", 1 victory Sq, n. 3 Verdun / Vauciennes (Oise) March = 1916. My reference on the subject (Les avions de Guynemer by Phillippe Osche) = states at one point: On March the 4th 1916, Sergeant Guynemer is promoted to 2nd lieutenant. = During the first days of the month, Guynemer receives his first Nieuport = 13 metres Type XI, named Bebe Nieuport due to its small size. ...... On = the 12th march, 2nd-Lieutenant Guynemer arrives at Bar-le-Duc at the = comands of his new Nieuport XI N836, christened Vieux-Charles. During = the flight he engages a nd downs an LVG that comes down at Ribencourt. = On the 13th, on patrol with brocard and Deullin, Guynemer attacks 4 = aircraft in the morning and another two in the afternoon. All this = fighting brought him 2 bullets in the left arm and some pieces of = shrapnel on the face. He managed to land at brocourt from where he is = evacuated to Paris.... The Nieuport XI N836 will never be used again by = the french ace for whom the battle of Verdun has come to an end. Don't know if this helped (I'm quite confused now) ;-). 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AAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAYno= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD5F7.FC65A480-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:10:37 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <199809012226.IAA19180@mimmon.mim.com.au> Eli comments in response to Jack: >> I have a question regarding contest judging. I was just curious whether >> the starting kit quality has anything to do with the judging assessment >> of the model? >In general, contest judging looks at the end result only. The work >required to reach that outcome is only taken into account as a (rare) tie >breaker. Any model will get judged on the same criteria, assuming >competency and integrity on the part of the contest organizers and judges. >Therefore, if your goal in modeling is to win a trophy, your best bet is >the best kit with the most etched brass. But you still need to get it >right, for judges are a petty and sadistic lot, and will jump on any >perceived shortcoming. Eli is right in most cases, and frankly I wish it were not so (since my great pleasure is the transformation of the sows ear) However, it's wise to actually read all the rules. There are contests where aftermarket parts are *ignored* and identical parts manufactured by the builder would be included for judging. Clearly in this case the organisers are trying to promote a certain set of skills different from the one often used in detailing (opening the wallet) Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <199809012235.PAA28306@ednet1.orednet.org> Shane comments: -snips- >However, it's wise to actually read all the rules. There are contests >where aftermarket parts are *ignored* and identical parts manufactured >by the builder would be included for judging. Clearly in this case the >organisers are trying to promote a certain set of skills different from >the one often used in detailing (opening the wallet) Anyone who has ever attempted to "roll" a set of Spandau jackets soon realizes that there are more skills involved in detailing than just opening one's wallet. And something to be said for the good old days when judges didn't expect barrel jackets to actually be perforated. :-) Money is, I suppose, a necessary but not sufficient condition. Cheers and all, Bill -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "Look, strange women lying on their backs in ponds handing out swords - that's no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:50:52 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <199809012307.JAA19507@mimmon.mim.com.au> Bill, >>In general, does a Smer or similar kit with only minor modification and a few >>added details even have a chance in a contest against OOB DML, Eduard, etc? >Probably not. Now if the DML model has unfilled seams, fingerprints >on the paint, and mis-aligned wings, ya' might have a chance! :-) But not absolutely. In our QMHE show last year the Large Scale OoB Aircraft class was won by an Eduard MS-N, second place a DML Fokker D.VIII. I mention this because most of the rest of the section were the so-called perfect Accurate Miniatures superkits, or Tamiya WW2 fighters. Most modellers would assume these kits a better starting point than any Eduard kit, but sometimes *skill* comes into it. Having said that, Bill is correct about it not being practical to judge based on the starting point. Indeed, it is even usual *not* to judge on the basis of *accuracy* (except gross errors) because one can *never* get a pool of judges who know everything about every possible subject. (Hell, it's hard enough to get a pool of judges, period) Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:34:30 -0400 From: Ross Bronkhurst To: WW1 mail posts Subject: New Kits Message-ID: Hi Long time lurker first time messager. I got the September issue of Scale Aviation Modeller yesterday and they have an ad for Flashback. They are doing new tool kits of a 1/48 Etrich Taube and in 1/72 a Voison 8 and 2 kits of the Sopwith 1 and a half strutter, a twin seat fighter and a single seat fighter-bomber. I am led to believe they are not related to the Toko kit. No word on release dates yet. Not much WW1 content in the mag apart from a review of the new windsock datafile on the Martinsyde Elephant. So Shane get ready for 1 and 1/2 strutter overload. I would like to belatedly say thanks for all the info I am getting off this list. Thanks Ross Bronkhurst ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:06:45 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: New Kits Message-ID: <199809012324.JAA19615@mimmon.mim.com.au> Ross, >Long time lurker first time messager. I just *knew* you'd get sucked in eventually ! Everyone, say "GDay" to another member of the Brisbane Kette. >I got the September issue of >Scale Aviation Modeller yesterday and they have an ad for Flashback. >They are doing new tool kits of a 1/48 Etrich Taube Rats. There goes another scratchbuild subject. > So Shane >get ready for 1 and 1/2 strutter overload. Looks like I have to build a half dozen at least for my Hawker (nee Sopwith) theme. > I would like to belatedly say thanks for all the info I am getting off this list. Aww shucks..... And I'd like to say thanks for bringing along all those new 1/72 kits and tempting me to buy them.... you swine ;-) Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 16:21:24 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: new to the wwi list Message-ID: <35EC8174.4AF63D7@mars.ark.com> magnus family wrote: > > I'm new here to the WW1 mailing list, so please be patient while I > learn the ropes, but I do have a few questions to start out. > 1. The new Toko N.11 1/72 scale kit, has some very nice decals. I am > wondering if the > decals for Guynemer's "View Charles" and Kazakov's "Skull & Crossbones" > N.11's are > accurate? Are there any photographs of these a/c available? > 2. The Toko SSW D.III/IV kit has markings for an Alfred Lerner? Should > this be Alfred Lenz? > 3. I invite one and all to visit my "Air Aces" web site at > www.cableregina.com/users/magnusfamily/airaces1.htm. > It's nothing fancy, but I hope there is some usefull info there. > > Al Magnus Kozakov flew Nieuports 10 (N.222) and 17 (various) and the FMP books doesn't list the 11 as a type he regularly flew. Of the machines they say he flew, the early ones had dark (black?) rudders with a white skull and no outline, and the later had a light coloured rudder and a black skull and again no outline. I suspect that these markings are supposed to be for an N.17 or 21. Kruten's N.11 (N.1137) was camouflaged (or painted a dark colour) and appears to lack the 'knight's head' insignia, while the scheme they provide was actually for an N.21 (N.4572) that has shown up heavily retouched in several places inc. the FMP book. The blues and reds on the decalsheet are all too dark and colours too pure, though a light wash should do the trick there. I don't have much info on Guynemer's N.11, most of the pictures I have are of his 10. He did however use a number of different aircraft and there may have been significant variations between them. Iirc Pegase magazine had an article on him, including lots of pictures of his various aircraft. The aircraft I have associated with him are N.10 - 309 & 328, N.17 - 1386, 1530, 1531 & 1532. No info on his N.11 though this just means I didn't find any confirmable s/n's. Mike Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 19:35:50 -0400 From: bucky@ptdprolog.net To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: I'm back...I think Message-ID: <35EC84D6.8D2ECDA9@ptdprolog.net> Greetings once again. That last time I wrote I was complaining about the new computer. Well, it got even with me and broke down...or I broke it down. Anyway, after downloading stuff for a month and trying to figure out the new email system, I think I finally got it working. As a point of curiosity, there have been over 1000 email messages over the past 25 days! You guys have certainly been busy. Finished up the Belgian Nieuport. Relatively happy with it and will be taking it to ModelCon in a week or so. Lots of vendors eagerly awaiting my $$$$$. I am now working on the W.29. in 1/72 by MPM. A nice little kit..but an awful lot of work. The struts for the floats don't fit real well and I hate making new ones. Hope to be back in the swing of things soon. Later Mike Muth NB: W.29(1/72) and Baracca's SPAD (1/28) and ID4 Stearman(Stop snickering!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:30:30 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: New Kits Message-ID: <13ac73d5.35ec8396@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-01 19:09:00 EDT, you write: << >I got the September issue of >Scale Aviation Modeller yesterday and they have an ad for Flashback. >They are doing new tool kits of a 1/48 Etrich Taube Rats. There goes another scratchbuild subject. >> Ah, but if you want it to have translucent wings.......... Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 16:40:08 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <35EC85D8.1AFF3FA1@mars.ark.com> When I was with the IPMS Canada group in Baden-Soelingen (Germany), we came up with a scoring sheet that broke down the judging of a kit into discreet, easily rated qualities, such as seams, finish, etc. Extra marks were awarded for modifications and scratch building so that there was some incentive to do this, rather than just build oob the same kits that everyone else was building. Additionally extra categories would be made (depending on number of entries) so that ww1 biplanes were not competing against ww2 monoplanes (categories were rigged and non-rigged). Mike Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 16:41:45 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Blatant self-promotion Message-ID: <35EC8639.56F0914F@mars.ark.com> Looks good! Keep it up ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:34:27 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: New Kits Message-ID: <23342752700236@KAIEN.COM> > No word on release dates yet. Not much WW1 content in the mag apart from a > review of the new windsock datafile on the Martinsyde Elephant. So Shane > get ready for 1 and 1/2 strutter overload. I would like to belatedly say > thanks for all the info I am getting off this list. > > Thanks > > Ross Bronkhurst Flashback Strutters you say ! ! ! ! ! Just in time for my OTF article with profiles of 19 No.3 Wing Strutters :-) Regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:59:22 +0200 (CEST) From: knut.erik.hagen@eunet.no (Knut Erik Hagen) To: wwi Subject: Re: British WW1 colors Message-ID: <199809012359.BAA05289@login-2.eunet.no> Hi, I might be able to help with information on the Sopwith Baby, we are currently in the process of building a flying replica for MMU in Norway. The main material used in the Baby is spruce which is fairly light in color. Fittings and flying wires are black. You can give him my Email adress so I can answer his questions as far as possible. The problem for us is that we don`t have a clear photo of the instrument panel, but we have most of the original drawings available for the rest of the airframe. I have also built both Eduard kits so I might help him to get around a couple of problems that might arise while building the kit. The reason for me not replying to this earlier is that I have been working onboard a survey vessel NW of Ireland and don`t receive my private Email out there Eders Knut Erik >Anyone have any ideas to help this person out? >>Return-Path: >>Dear Mr. Jones, I'm building a Sopwith Baby and I am looking for info on >>interior colors of the cocpit area of this aircraft. Also the actual >>materials used in the construction of the actual aircraft would shed light >>on what colors to use for the duplication of the aircraft in miniature. Any >>knowledge that you can share would be helpful. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:02:58 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <199809020020.KAA20053@mimmon.mim.com.au> Mike posts: >When I was with the IPMS Canada group in Baden-Soelingen (Germany), we >came up with a scoring sheet that broke down the judging of a kit into >discreet, easily rated qualities, such as seams, finish, etc. Extra >marks were awarded for modifications and scratch building so that there >was some incentive to do this, rather than just build oob the same kits >that everyone else was building. This sounds similar to the way we judge at one of the two clubs I belong to. It works well, but I doubt if ours would translate well to an "open" modelling contest where the entrants didn't all understand the system, where the judges weren't specifically trained to the scoring system, and where the sheer number of entries to be judged in a few hours made simplicity a necessity. > Additionally extra categories would be >made (depending on number of entries) so that ww1 biplanes were not >competing against ww2 monoplanes (categories were rigged and >non-rigged). There are a mass of pros and cons which confuse the categorisation issue. At a loooong distance it seems to me that in many (most??) contests in the USA a wide variety of categories are promoted from the beginning which inevitably leads to few entries in some of the less popular subject areas. This strikes me as unfair, in so far as 1st prizes are awarded to some quite ordinary models while someone way down the list in a larger sestion misses out. OTOH it has the advantage of encouraging entries in classes where the average modeller would otherwise assume it a waste of time to enter (on account of a perceived bias to some other subject area) and also increases entries on account of the extra effort made by those who just like to compete in as many sections as possible. In contrast we tend to start with few (or fewer) categories and split when the number of entries warrants it. Entrants can usually place as many entries as they like, but since there is no guarantee of a split, nor of a split to suit them, "pothunters" have a difficult challenge in choosing their target. FWIW there is no such thing as a "perfect" judging system, the "right" judging system or even an absolutely "fair" judging system. Those of us who care to run shows and cop the brickbats as well as the plaudits can at best try to keep the peace in the modelling community and encourage informed participation in a good spirit. And that, more than anything, makes the aches and pains at the end of the show worth the effort Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:03:05 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Contest Judging vs. Kit Quality Message-ID: <1fcd3965.35ec8b39@aol.com> In a message dated 98-09-01 18:13:39 EDT, you write: << But you still need to get it >right, for judges are a petty and sadistic lot, and will jump on any >perceived shortcoming. >> Another thing to contend with is whether a given judge goes by "it looks real" or "it's a good model"- not necessarily the same thing. I'm also learning to to note any deviations from what judges might think is correct- if you build, oh say, a Pfalz D III, and work in the twist in the elevator, or some Halberstadt with gross washout, you'd better let them know that it's done on purpose, and not a mistake. Robert K. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1189 **********************