WWI Digest 1176 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Eduard Nieuport 17 Detail Set by The Shannons 2) DSA's Tripe Drawings by John & Allison Cyganowski 3) Re: DR1 on the web by Zulis@aol.com 4) Re: DR1 on the web by KarrArt@aol.com 5) Re: DR1 on the web by "Steven M. Perry" 6) Dr1 on the web by Bill Bacon 7) Re: DSA's Tripe Drawings by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 8) Re: DSA's Tripe Drawings by Bob Pearson 9) Abbot China plane wasRe: DSA's Tripe Drawings by KarrArt@aol.com 10) Re: DR1 on the web by "Sandy Adam" 11) RE: Halb Cl.2 topwing underside colour by Shane Weier 12) Down Under show report by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:44:24 -0500 From: The Shannons To: WWI Subject: Eduard Nieuport 17 Detail Set Message-ID: <35DF65E7.2FF21E80@ix.netcom.com> Picked one of these up at the hobby shop today. I'm not big on scratchbuilding. You get one fret with interior bracing, floor, one instrument gauge, two windscreen versions, some details for the Vickers, a 'conversion' brace unit for the upper wing Lewis (post and tripodal braces style), engine 'spider' of intake manifold, landing gear strut brackets for the main gear and tail skid, control horn replacements, optional circular mirror, new throttle/spark control unit, ammunition drum 'box' for the port fuselage bulge, and new seat and support, all etched to the fineness you would expect from Eduard. The fuselage bracing units match on the molded-in braces in the fuselage, but have a bit of extra detail at their forward ends and include the crossed bracing wires with 'turnbuckles' on them. The floor extends back behind the seat with another frame length of the same kind of bracing and wires. You have to trim the lower wing fitting shoulders where they meet the fuselage to fit the detail set interior lower edges. You use the rudder bar and the control stick portions only of the molded interior. A section for the rear edge of the cockpit, with a crossmember and headrest detail, is included. The seat has the horizontal portion done with a separate cross-hatch pattern 'cushion'. Lap belts are provided. The seatback has the complex pattern of holes, overall giving an excellent effect. A flat triangular windscreen and a replacement for the Guynemere kit version curved type are both provided. There are very few external detail pieces for the airframe itself, otherwise. The Vickers gets a feedbelt, the curved shield under the muzzle, a mounting strap, and the cocking lever. A strap piece with a D-handle also mounts on the gun, but I am not sure what it represents from the info I have on the weapon. The unit for the upper wing Lewis is the most interesting bit, very finely etched. This consists of two plates that mount above and below the wing cutout at the after, 'Y'- portion of its bracing, and a unit that bends into the rear post braced by two long forward opening V-sway braces, from which braces arise into a U-shaped barrel cradle.. No Lewis gun or any potential detail pieces for one are provided. This design looks like that used on one of Guynemere's other Nieuports, from the pictures, and the circular 'mirror' mounts on the trailing edge of the semicircular cockpit cutout in the upper wing. The set was priced at US $11.99. --Mark. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:58:19 -0400 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: DSA's Tripe Drawings Message-ID: <35DF692B.58DE@worldnet.att.net> Dan-San Abbott is an American but he was born in China. His parents were from California. How they wound up there in the 1920's is a pretty convoluted and fascinating story, but his father was helping Sun-Yat Sen's government establish an airforce. They ended up designing and building their own bi-plane fighter aircraft. His parents were friendly with Dr.Sun, and he asked to name their newborn son. Dan-San means "Big Mountain" (I think). It was a play off of one of Dr. Sun's names. Really a very interesting story - Like something right out of Terry & the Pirates. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:58:46 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: DR1 on the web Message-ID: << Needless to say it did not even place,but thats OK, I build mostly for myself, and not for competition. However, someone must have liked it. >> Nice job, Russ. And probably the best attitude for anyone who doesn't want to end up in a padded cell. I was looking at the picture of your model and a thought occurred to me. What would one of the pilots of that era think if he learned that now, eighty years later, their planes are being recreated with painstaking detail.... olive streaks.... frayed harnesses.... etc. Surely he would think us mad. He'd probably be right, too.... :-) Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:24:12 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: DR1 on the web Message-ID: <6427e9a2.35df7d4d@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-22 19:21:34 EDT, you write: << Revell's 1/28th DR1 may be dated, but she still makes up into a pretty Aeroplane. >> Shore 'nuff! A fine job you've done- and those prop laminations are great looking! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:49:36 -0400 From: "Steven M. Perry" To: wwi Subject: Re: DR1 on the web Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980822224936.006c8054@pop.mindspring.com> Russ: Nice looking Tripe. Judges obviously suffering from WWB (Wrong War Bias). sp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:55:26 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Dr1 on the web Message-ID: <35DFA0BE.1D5D@netjava.net> Russ, Great job. The streaked cameoflage is great. how about words on how you did it. Cheers, Bill B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: DSA's Tripe Drawings Message-ID: <199808230530.WAA05634@ednet1.orednet.org> John C. wrote: >Dan-San Abbott is an American but he was born in China. His parents were >from California. How they wound up there in the 1920's is a pretty >convoluted and fascinating story, but his father was helping Sun-Yat >Sen's government establish an airforce. They ended up designing and >building their own bi-plane fighter aircraft. -snips- SFAIK, the Chinese _never_ had a domestic aircraft manufacturing capability until well into the late '50s or early '60's and even then they were basically "kit assembling" Soviet-designed aircraft. Chinese aircraft design capabilities came even later. I'd be interested in additional information on this 1920's Chinese designed and built bi-plane fighter. Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "Everything would have been calm in Franche Comte if ten lawyers had been hanged." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:39:06 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: DSA's Tripe Drawings Message-ID: <05390603100866@KAIEN.COM> I believe DSA did drawing of it to illustrate his bio in WW1 Aero - sadly my database deosn't include WW1 Aero articles yet, so I don;t recall the precise issue. Anyone know it? Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) > John C. wrote: > > >Dan-San Abbott is an American but he was born in China. His parents were > >from California. How they wound up there in the 1920's is a pretty > >convoluted and fascinating story, but his father was helping Sun-Yat > >Sen's government establish an airforce. They ended up designing and > >building their own bi-plane fighter aircraft. -snips- > > SFAIK, the Chinese _never_ had a domestic aircraft manufacturing > capability until well into the late '50s or early '60's and even > then they were basically "kit assembling" Soviet-designed aircraft. > Chinese aircraft design capabilities came even later. > > I'd be interested in additional information on this 1920's > Chinese designed and built bi-plane fighter. > > Cheers and all, > > > -- > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org > > "Everything would have been calm in Franche Comte > if ten lawyers had been hanged." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:15:39 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Abbot China plane wasRe: DSA's Tripe Drawings Message-ID: In a message dated 98-08-23 01:31:41 EDT, you write: << >Dan-San Abbott is an American but he was born in China.....the 1920's is a pretty >convoluted and fascinating story, but his father was helping Sun-Yat >Sen's government establish an airforce. They ended up designing and >building their own bi-plane fighter aircraft. -snips- SFAIK, the Chinese _never_ had a domestic aircraft manufacturing capability until well into the late '50s or early '60's........ I'd be interested in additional information on this 1920's Chinese designed and built bi-plane fighter. Cheers and all, Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org>> WW I Aero had quite a feature on the Abbot aircraft a few years ago. I shall have to go dig it out. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:36:19 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: DR1 on the web Message-ID: <199808230934.KAA18126@beryl.sol.co.uk> Nice Dreidecker Russ. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:26:58 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Halb Cl.2 topwing underside colour Message-ID: <199808232144.HAA19175@mimmon.mim.com.au> Joey, >I was wondering. For most all Halberstadt Cl.II aircraft, the standard >finish for the fuselage was a speckled top/sides and dark yellow bottom. The dark yellow undersurface is varnished ply. >The topwing center section also did carry the speckled finish. >Did the underside of the topwing center section also carry the dark yellow? Well, the centre section is ply so it could be, but the one photo I've seen which shows the undersurface of the centre section looks much too dark. I'm betting on the mottle, if only because i already built my Pegasus kit that way ;-0 Shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:18:48 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: Down Under show report Message-ID: <199808232236.IAA19467@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hello all, Well, I'm back from my week of leave taken *specifically* for an orgy of modelling ending in the three days I have committed to the running of the Queensland model Hobbies Expo (our State Championship) I've made a small report each ofthe last two years in the intention of mapping the progress (if any) of W1 modelling in this area, so a recap is in order. In 1996 there was ONE WW1 model in the contest - but at least it garnered a first place. In 1997 there were Six WW1 models in the contest, though to be fair five of them were mine and one belonged to list lurker Graham Steel. This year there were ten WW1 models, still improving, but better yet they were the work of five different modellers, including Graham and myself, so it seems that either we're still making ground, or the presence of WW1 subjects on the tables previously is encouraging some input from previously silent enthusiasts. Either way I feel hopeful that my constant bleating on the subject might have made a difference ! Before I pass on any results I'd better explain that we don't have separate biplane or WW1 classes, nor in fact do we split the aircraft sections by subject UNLESS there are too many entries to judge sensibly. Instead our WW1 pride and joy have to compete directly against the expected hordes of WW2 kits. Also, our Out of Box classses are *separate* from the modified ones, rather than having modellers nominate models in general classes for consideration for OoB awards as well. So... to the announcements. Large Scale Aircraft Out Of Box was won for the second year in succession by Graham Steel, with a DML Fokker Dr.I made in Klimke's markings - researched in this forum some months ago. Graham will squirm (serves the swine right), but this was the best streaky dope finish I've ever seen. A superb model almost the equal of last years Morane Saulnier. Graham beat a load of 190's, 109's etc. (and a Spitfire built by another even more embarrassed list member ;-) into submission. Small scale aircraft, detailed was won by a Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.II using the kit markings, with an off topic subject second and the MPM Hansa Brandenburg W.29 third. Amusingly, there were two of each of these kits in the section, with the Halberstadts even using the same markings.Yet the aircraft were about as like as chalk and cheese. In addition there were a pair of (Revell?) Eindekkers, a very pretty Revell Fokker D.VII in Aloys Heldmanns markings, an Airfix Hannoveraner with a beautiful hand painted polygon fuselage/centre section/tail, and a Camel (make unknown) in one of the garish training unit schemes. Which begs the question - Where were all the Tokos? Not ready yet? Will we see a flood of beautiful models NEXT year? Sure hope so. And given that there was just one 1/48 model of a WW1 aircraft subject, what has happened to all the Eduards my strene pusher seems to sell? I think I've been Bittnered. Turning away from the contest tables to the club displays, there was a definite increase in the number of WW1 subjects on show. These included the usual aircraft but also a couple of tanks and a nice selection of 120mm figures of (among others) Australian Light Horsemen and various Galipolli and western front Diggers, and even a Kiwi ANZAC or two brought all the way from New Zealand for the show. And finally, the traders are starting to bring in some on topic stock ! Saw the Copper State Do. D.I nd Fokker D.V, and some nice CSM detail bits for the first time. So that's it for another year. You're all invited to next years show (late August), or perhaps you'd like to combine a visit to Expo'2000 with a visit to Sydney for that other minor show in September ;-) Shane (Who modelled intensively for 60 hours, and still failed to get the Biff done for the show. But you should see the gun sychro gear and prop !) ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1176 **********************