WWI Digest 1154 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Off topic question by Ernest Thomas 2) Aviation What Not by "John C Glaser" 3) FT 17 Photos by "Leonard Endy" 4) RE: Weathering WAS (Whew! I was getting lonely) by Joey Valenciano 5) The last one passes by Shane Weier 6) Re: The last one passes by Ernest Thomas 7) Re: The last one passes by "Jim Elkins" 8) RE: Tire colours was: Weathering by infosilver@czechia.com 9) Re: The last one passes by Bill Bacon 10) Re: The last one passes by KarrArt@aol.com 11) Re: Weathering - Tyres by "Sandy Adam" 12) Aviatik C.1 info - Thanks by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 13) Rubber by Suvoroff@aol.com 14) RE: Tire colours by Joey Valenciano 15) Re: Aviation What Not by Bob Pearson 16) Re: Tires was...Weathering WAS ... by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 17) Help by clynch@denver.net (Cameron Lynch) 18) RE: Help by "John C Glaser" 19) Additions to Swap'N'Shop by "Leonard Endy" 20) RE: Aviation What Not by "Chris Banyai-Riepl" 21) Re: Fokker D.V bits by Eric Fisher 22) RE: Fw: 25 Sqn RFC by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) 23) The last one passes by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) 24) Tire Colors in WW I National Geographic Advertisements by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 25) Re: Fokker D.V bits by Don Rinker 26) Re: Fokker D.V bits by Bob Pearson 27) Re: Tire Colors in WW I National Geographic Advertisements by Mike Fletcher 28) RE: The last one passes by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 22:26:39 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: Off topic question Message-ID: <35CD16EF.7C84@bellsouth.net> Have a question concerning the Bu-133? Jungman, or Jungmeister. Was there a Japanese version of it, under some Jap designation? I'm looking at a model that recently came out and it looks sorta like the Bu, but I'm not sure. And I don't remeber what Japanese designation is on the model kit box. If anyone can help, please reply off list. thanks. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:37:31 -0500 From: "John C Glaser" To: "WW1 Mail List" Subject: Aviation What Not Message-ID: <000001bdc347$09cfce70$f011820a@johng-home> Every month Bob & Chris out-do themselves. The August issue is no exception. With plans to convert the site to the Internet Modeler in September, look for more great stuff to come. Great work Bob & Chris! A big Texas thanks to you both from myself and on behalf of the list. - Mr. G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 03:51:36 GMT From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi Subject: FT 17 Photos Message-ID: <35cd1bc2.11827348@legend.firstsaga.com> In my recent quest for info on this tank, Ernest Thomas has taken the time to visit a museum in his hometown and provide me with some photos of a Renault FT 17 on display there. In order to share them with everyone on the list I have added them to the Swap'N'Shop website. I have decided to add to the site and again wants and disposals will be accepted for posting. I'll probably re-do the site but in the meantime I'll keep it as it is. Enjoy the photos and thanks again Ernest Len http://www2.firstsaga.com/lfendy/fof_site.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 11:57:48 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: RE: Weathering WAS (Whew! I was getting lonely) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980809115748.0074cd18@philonline.com.ph> >>Firstly, weren't WWI tires dark to medium grey? >>The Halb Cl.III mentions yellow tires on a restored aircraft. Dark, >chrome, >>or lemon yellow? Or would Dark tan be a better interpretation. > > >No synthetic rubber back then and the natural stuff is kind of cream in >colour. You can often see this colour on pram wheels ! Natural rubber >has a somewhat short life due to perishing, and additives which included >IIRC carbon, would take the tone towards a warm dark grey rather than >the pitch black of (new) modern tyres. Thanks Shane. Kind of cream? Someone mentioned surgical tubing. Are we referring to the colour of neoprene? Can I use that as a guide to paint early aircraft tires? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@philonline.com. sitarist Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:32:19 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: The last one passes Message-ID: <199808090448.OAA28424@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hello all, A few hours ago, harold Edwards, the last surviving member of the Australian Flying Corps passed away as a consequence of complications following a fall a couple of days ago. He was 102. I had the brief pleasure of meeting Harold before he reached his centenary, but have seen him on TV a couple of times since, quite sprightly for a man of his great age. He lived justa few miles away from me in Brisbane. Thus passes the last Australian eye witness of the activities of our air forces in the Great War. Lest We Forget Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 23:38:47 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: The last one passes Message-ID: <35CD27D7.7E11@bellsouth.net> Shane Weier wrote: > Lest We Forget To Harold Edwards... E. > > Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:59:44 -0500 From: "Jim Elkins" To: Subject: Re: The last one passes Message-ID: <01bdc352$862750a0$c337a497@default> >Shane Weier wrote: > >> Lest We Forget > Raising a glass... It makes it all the more vital that we, while not just enjoying a hobby, keep the spirit of the pioneers of aviation alive and well. JIM nr. Rickenbacker's Fighting the Flying Circus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 98 06:47:18 -01 From: infosilver@czechia.com To: wwi Subject: RE: Tire colours was: Weathering Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:04:22 -0400 Joey Valenciano wrote: >>No synthetic rubber back then and the natural stuff is kind of cream in >>colour. You can often see this colour on pram wheels ! Natural rubber >>has a somewhat short life due to perishing, and additives which included >>IIRC carbon, would take the tone towards a warm dark grey rather than >>the pitch black of (new) modern tyres. > >Thanks Shane. > >Kind of cream? >Someone mentioned surgical tubing. >Are we referring to the colour of neoprene? >Can I use that as a guide to paint early aircraft tires? > I suppose it was the natural (latex) rubber. Today you can see the shade on surgical gloves as well. Thicker layers tend to be cream-honey-yellowish. Another type of tires was reportedly red as bicycle wheel inner tube - rubber coloured with some stuff like ferric oxide - anybody knows better? Cheers! Ivan Subrt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 23:46:05 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: The last one passes Message-ID: <35CD298D.2736@netjava.net> Shane Weier wrote: As long as I live, he and all the others will not be forgotten. Cheers, Bill B. > > Hello all, > > A few hours ago, harold Edwards, the last surviving member of the > Australian Flying Corps passed away as a consequence of complications > following a fall a couple of days ago. He was 102. > > I had the brief pleasure of meeting Harold before he reached his > centenary, but have seen him on TV a couple of times since, quite > sprightly for a man of his great age. He lived justa few miles away from > me in Brisbane. > > Thus passes the last Australian eye witness of the activities of our air > forces in the Great War. > > Lest We Forget > > Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 01:38:33 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: The last one passes Message-ID: In a message dated 98-08-09 00:34:38 EDT, you write: << A few hours ago, harold Edwards, the last surviving member of the Australian Flying Corps passed away as a consequence of complications following a fall a couple of days ago. He was 102. >> Amazing. I don't know what happened to the days when the WW II guys were all in their 40s and the WW I guys were all 60 something. Raising a glass Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:37:38 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Weathering - Tyres Message-ID: <199808090936.KAA01939@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > >>Firstly, weren't WWI tires dark to medium grey? Years ago I read somewhere that WW1 tyres were usually a pinkish grey because they were made from unpigmented rubber. Ever since I have painted my models' tyres in a lightish medium grey with some red added. This satisfies me when subsequently compared with all the surviving planes and evidence in the RAF Museum, IWM, Shuttleworth, East Fortune etc. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:33:33 -0700 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi Subject: Aviatik C.1 info - Thanks Message-ID: <35CE5BFC.23EC@tac.com.au> Hi All, The following 2 messages we sent, didn't make it to the list(I think) when the list went down temporaly. Apologies to those people who may be seeing it for the second time. Shane > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:10:48 +1000 > From: Shane Weier > To: wwi > Subject:RE: Hi, new to the list and a question > Message-ID: <199808042128.HAA05772@mimmon.mim.com.au> > > Hello Lorna and Shane > Hi, Shane, Can anyone on the list tell me is there is > >a kit available of the Aviatik C.1? Any scale but prefer 1/72. > > There have been vacforms in 1/72 by Classic Plane and Joystick, and an > excellent 1/48 vacform by Sierra Scale Models. I sort of doubt if any > but the Sierra one are available any more. However, a 1/72 resin by RVHP > was reviewed in the March/April Windsock this year. I don't have it here > (I'm 600km from my magazines, but my index is in this laptop) so I can't > tell you the price or source. > Thanks for this info. At least I know that kits of it are around. > > Which brings me to ask whether between the two of you, you could > possibly wander on down to Darling Harbour and nick the model of HMAS > Sydney (I) from the National Maritime Museum. I want to scratchbuild one > in 1/350 as a companion to my SMS Emden and plans are *sooo* hard to > find. :-) > What!! The digest has been full of copyright issues (very interesting to I might add - I too am writing to A/G). Now you want to add physical theft as well as intellectual theft? I am corruptible but not that much . BTW apparently there is a list of ship modeling articles on ModelerAl's site which may help. Oh and before anyone accuses me of plugging it, I have not and will not look at this bloody thing myself. It is my maniac husband's creation. Blame him. I do. > Don't drink the water, > Are you kidding? This is a great excuse to drink all those "evil spiritous liquors" and feel as though you're doing something good for your body. Lorna > Shane > (Weier, in Brisbane, closet shipbuilder) > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 06:00:10 EDT From: Suvoroff@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Rubber Message-ID: Shane; Sorry to contradict you, but by early 1918, the Germans were synthesizing 10 tons of soft rubber (methyl isoprene) a month from aluminum and acetone, which was used for tires. This is aside from synthetics more suitable for electrical applications. The book I have (_Rubber_, by Howard and Ralph Wolf, 1936) says that this artificial rubber was so deficient that vehicles in unheated garages had to be jacked up when not in use, as the synthetic rubber would split and crumble when cold. They do not, alas, treat with what colour this stuff was, and I do not know if this was used for aircraft tires or not...though I have seen pictures of them jacked up to spare the rubber. Yours, James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 18:47:19 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: RE: Tire colours Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980809184719.006dcf0c@philonline.com.ph> >>Kind of cream? > >I suppose it was the natural (latex) rubber. Today you can see the shade >on surgical gloves as well. Thicker layers tend to be >cream-honey-yellowish. Another type of tires was reportedly red as >bicycle wheel inner tube - rubber coloured with some stuff like ferric >oxide - anybody knows better? I've seen "ferric oxide" coloured rubber. Did they have tires like those during WWI? If so, that would be the logic behind the Eduard SSW instructions having you paint the tires red. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@philonline.com. sitarist Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 05:25:46 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Aviation What Not Message-ID: <12254636532680@KAIEN.COM> Thanks to John and Pedro, however I really must point out that it was Chris who did most of the work on AW-N. Bob ---------- > From: "John C Glaser" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Aviation What Not > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:39:48 -0400 > > Every month Bob & Chris out-do themselves. The August issue is no > exception. With plans to convert the site to the Internet Modeler in > September, look for more great stuff to come. > > Great work Bob & Chris! A big Texas thanks to you both from myself and on > behalf of the list. > > - Mr. G. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:43:42 -0700 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi Subject: Re: Tires was...Weathering WAS ... Message-ID: <35CEA4AE.614A@tac.com.au> Joey Valenciano wrote: > > >These sound like wonderful tips - but to take this in a slightly different > >direction how do members on the list "weather" tires? > > Firstly, weren't WWI tires dark to medium grey? Natural rubber is a creamy white when new. However once it starts to wear the colour moves to a dirty white. The other thing is that if the tyres ever get scraped for some reason the scrape always shows up as light grey (No, pram wheels are not my source of reference. Scooter wheels are) For this reason I like to drybrush the scrapes in pale grey and wash with a light tint of brown. To me this conveys the "look" of a well worn tyre I know this is probably nitpicky in the smaller scales but it may be helpful for the larger scales ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:00:11 -0600 (MDT) From: clynch@denver.net (Cameron Lynch) To: wwi Subject: Help Message-ID: <199808091600.KAA07737@milehigh.denver.net> Could somebody, anybody please tell me how to unsubscribe? I'm leaving town for a week, and despite rereading (and following) the FAQ, the half dozen different tries to unsubscribe have been fruitless. I mean I like you guys, but I don't want to come back with 400 billion messages in my mailbox. Thanks in advance. Cameron Lynch "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert Humphrey 1911-1978 __________________________________________________________________________ Copyright (C) 1998. Cameron Lynch. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:27:44 -0500 From: "John C Glaser" To: Subject: RE: Help Message-ID: <000001bdc3b2$a37f8400$f011820a@johng-home> Cameron: Send your unsubscribe command to listproc@pease1.sr.unh.edu. No subject required, only the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the message body. Make sure the message is formatted as plain text. The list processor apparently has trouble reading rich text format. HTH - Mr. G. > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Cameron Lynch > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 1998 10:59 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Help > > > Could somebody, anybody please tell me how to unsubscribe? I'm > leaving town > for a week, and despite rereading (and following) the FAQ, the half dozen > different tries to unsubscribe have been fruitless. > > I mean I like you guys, but I don't want to come back with 400 billion > messages in my mailbox. Thanks in advance. > > Cameron Lynch > "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be > taken seriously." - Hubert Humphrey 1911-1978 > __________________________________________________________________________ > Copyright (C) 1998. Cameron Lynch. All rights reserved. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 16:43:50 GMT From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi Subject: Additions to Swap'N'Shop Message-ID: <35cdd0e8.19350033@legend.firstsaga.com> Caught up in a flurry of activity you will now find, in addition to the Renault FT 17 pics, a few pics of a British Whippet and a Trivia Picture for anyone to identify. Sorry, no prizes other than getting your name up in lights when the next trivia photo is posted in a week or two. Enjoy Len http://www2.firstsaga.com/lfendy/fof_site.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:09:36 -0700 From: "Chris Banyai-Riepl" To: Subject: RE: Aviation What Not Message-ID: <007201bdc3c0$ddf68620$9b4ffbce@chrisban> > Thanks to John and Pedro, however I really must point out that it > was Chris > who did most of the work on AW-N. > > Bob > Yes, but it is BOB who keeps up that great WWI content at AW-N! Otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell everyone here about the new issue.... Thanks, Bob! Chris Aviation What-Not http://www.avsim.com/mike/awn/current > ---------- > > From: "John C Glaser" > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Aviation What Not > > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:39:48 -0400 > > > > Every month Bob & Chris out-do themselves. The August issue is no > > exception. With plans to convert the site to the Internet Modeler in > > September, look for more great stuff to come. > > > > Great work Bob & Chris! A big Texas thanks to you both from > myself and on > > behalf of the list. > > > > - Mr. G. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:38:23 -0800 From: Eric Fisher To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker D.V bits Message-ID: >> He has acquired from an unnamed museum in Germany the complete rudder >>assembly >> from a Fokker D.V which he hopes to sell for abou $ 7,500.... > > >Oh, golly, another one of my rudder "projects" found it's way onto the >for sale market.. >Just hope they don't X-ray it like the last few that popped up... :-) Yowee -- really ROTFL. Very funny Don... (Sorry, am still way behind on my mail.) Eric F. :--) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 21:19:18 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: RE: Fw: 25 Sqn RFC Message-ID: <19980809211918.0c6fe7d12f3511d2b57c004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> Shane wrote: > >Mike says: > (actually my name is Martin, but no matter :) >>Now I just need a heads up on the ground ops it was supporting but I >guess >>that's OT. > >Only, I have no idea why. > >Because it's land, not air? This is a WW1 modelling list, not AIR >modelling. > >Because you want history, not plastic? Can't properly separate the one >from the other. > Well, discussing strategy and major ground operations in this MODELLING list may be off topic. But then I posed the same question to the WWI-L mailer and got no response at all...seriously, this research is possibly the start of something big and if anyone can fill in the broad details of what major ground offensives were going on between March and September 1918 on the British front, I'll be pleased to read them. Or better still, if there is a good book, not too weighty that covers the last year of the ground war, I'll be grateful for author and title. Sorry but my knowledge of who was doing what to whom in the early to -mid war period is better. I am not a 1918 specialist. Also can anyone tell me what major town Ruisseauville aerodrome was near. Many thanks. Martin "The tail of the machine was suddenly wrenched upwards as if it had been hit from below...I caught hold of the uprights...then next thing I realised was that I was lying in a heap on what ordinarily is the under surface of the top plane... I stood up, held on and waited. The machine just floated about, gliding from side to side like a piece of paper falling... Then it went down tail first, turned over upside-down again, and restarted the old floating motion. We were still some way from the ground, and took what seemed like a long time reaching it...according to those who were looking on, I did not jump until about ten feet from the ground." - Lt H.R.P. Reynolds, 2 Company, Air Battalion Royal Engineers, 1911. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 21:19:20 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: The last one passes Message-ID: <19980809211920.0c6fe7d32f3511d2b57c004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> Shane wrote: >>A few hours ago, harold Edwards, the last surviving member of the >>Australian Flying Corps passed away as a consequence of complications >>following a fall a couple of days ago. He was 102. >> >>Thus passes the last Australian eye witness of the activities of our air >>forces in the Great War. >> >>Lest We Forget We won't. Ever. Rest in peace, Mr Edwards. (Two minutes silence observed). Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:25:09 -0700 From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Tire Colors in WW I National Geographic Advertisements Message-ID: >Tires are just another big can of worms... Many were sort of a neutral >grey to a tannish color. Just look at nautural surgial rubber tubing and >you get the idea. >Many early ones were almost pure white. This is also common on many >early autos also. >I think the later on in th WAr you get, there is more or a preponderance >of Black type tires, especially in the British designs. Palmer Aero, the >maker of most of the allied tires from 1917 on, was pioneer in adding >lampblack and other agents to the rubber to retard aging and cracking. ********************** >> Natural rubber >>has a somewhat short life due to perishing, and additives which included >>IIRC carbon, would take the tone towards a warm dark grey rather than >>the pitch black of (new) modern tyres. *********************** I never paid too much attention to tire colors as I always painted them black. After this discussion, I see that the FMP book illustrations depict mostly non-black tires, the U.S. Air Force Museum has it's WW I aircraft in black tires and many models on the WW I Modeling Page, including Hustad's, have mostly black tires. A few years ago at a garage sale, I bought a collection of National Geographics that started in 1914. Last night I went through the WW I era issues and looked for tire and automotive company advertisements to look for tire colors. Some ads are drawn and some have photos and drawings. Here is what I found. I hope it may be helpful. *****Automobile company ads used drawings and photos for their ads from 1914 to 1918 and always depicted the tires in a light color. Since they are B & W, you can not tell if they are white, tan or light grey but they are definitely not black. *****Danby Motor Truck Company, Detroit, 1916 used photos in their 1916 ads that showed light colored tires that contrasted sharply with the black cab of the truck. *****Colors depicted in tire company ads in photos or text. Photo descriptions are subjective as photos are in B & W. In chronological order: 1914....... United States Tire Company: "Nobby Tread Tires". Photos of dark greyish-looking tires. 1915....... Kelly Springfield Tire Company: Photos of light greyish-looking tires with a dark narrow sidewall. "..Kelly-Springfield Tubes are (emphasis in ad)SLOWLY AND PAINSTAKINGLY BY HAND OUT OF REAL RUBBER. Kelly-Springfield Tires are made in the same way..." Firestone Tire & Rubber Co.: "NON-SKID - an exclusive sign". Medium greyish looking tire that had the words *NON* and *SKID* used as the tread of the tire. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.: "Cord Tires". Dark greyish-looking tires. Republic Tires: Dark greyish-looking tires. 1916........ United States Tire Company: "Royal Cord Tires". Photos of a black-looking tire with a thin whitewall stripe. "Superb in appearance...It costs more than most-yet it is a tire of which you may well say-'What matters the price when so royal a tire is the end?" Firestone Tire & Rubber Co.: ...Deciding that it needs a more visible "exclusive sign"..... "Red Sidewall and Black Tread". "In the new Firestone Tire with the trademark Red Sidewall and Black Tread, the tire is given an appearance in keeping with the excellence...." Photo of a black tread tire with the treads still spelling "Non-Skid" with lighter side wall which if, of course, supposed to be red. In another ad...."The Red Sidewall and Black Tread The Destinctive Trademark of Firestone". United States Tire Company: "Nobby Tread Tires". The "Nobby" is still dark grey but now sports a narrow black-looking sidewall. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.: "Cord Tires". Still has dark greyish-looking tires but they now sport a narrow black sidewall stripe. It seems that black has become the "Nike Swoosh" of 1916 auto tires. 1917....... Miller Tire Company: Unadorned light grey-looking tire. "The Miller Method of vulcanizing is a modern development that retains the natural vegetable wax and oil in the fabric..." B.F. Goodrich Tire Co.: 'Silvertown Cord Tires". Black tread with white sidewall with it's Red Double-diamong Trademark". 1918........ B.F. Goodrich Tire Co.: 'Silvertown Cord Tires" and "Black Safety Treads". No change in the Silvetowns which are "Modeled as by a sculpter....These patrician tires dress any car with an individual elegance...." The ad incidentally mentions that Goodrich also makes the "Black Safety Treads" which I assume are the "plebian" tires. Lee Tire and Rubber Company: "8-Ply Multiple Cord Tires". Specifically bucks the black tide that started in 1916. Shows a tire cross-section with white tread. "......Obvserve the unusual thickness of the tread...and note it's (emphasis in ad) WHITENESS, an assurance that these tires are built of strong long wearing rubber". So, it seems that, in civilian U.S. auto tires during WW I, there was an entire range of tire colors from white to pure black. Black appears to have begun to be popular in 1916 and later became a staus symbol with snob appeal. But, my favorite ad was in the March 1916 issue. It shows an aerial view of a torpedoed and sinking freighter. The text reads, "ARE YOU GOING ABROAD? We can furnish LIFE AND ACCIDENT INSURANCE. Write for information: Samuels, Cornwal & Stevens. 88 Williams Street, N.Y." Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 16:30:04 -0400 From: Don Rinker To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker D.V bits Message-ID: <35CE06CC.390F56FA@fast.net> Could I perhaps interest you in some authentic pieces of fabric from MVR's Fokker Triplane? Or perhaps the hat in the ring logo from Rickenbacker's SPAD? Allow two to three weeks for delivery, and try not to notice the paint smell.......... ;-) Eric Fisher wrote: > > >> He has acquired from an unnamed museum in Germany the complete rudder > >>assembly > >> from a Fokker D.V which he hopes to sell for abou $ 7,500.... > > > > > >Oh, golly, another one of my rudder "projects" found it's way onto the > >for sale market.. > >Just hope they don't X-ray it like the last few that popped up... :-) > > Yowee -- really ROTFL. Very funny Don... > > (Sorry, am still way behind on my mail.) > > Eric F. :--) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:40:59 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Fokker D.V bits Message-ID: <20405986133283@KAIEN.COM> Don, Do you accept home-made US $100 bills? Bob ---------- > From: Don Rinker > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Fokker D.V bits > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:34:06 -0400 > > Could I perhaps interest you in some authentic pieces of fabric from > MVR's Fokker Triplane? Or perhaps the hat in the ring logo from > Rickenbacker's SPAD? > > Allow two to three weeks for delivery, and try not to notice the paint > smell.......... ;-) > > > Eric Fisher wrote: > > > > >> He has acquired from an unnamed museum in Germany the complete rudder > > >>assembly > > >> from a Fokker D.V which he hopes to sell for abou $ 7,500.... > > > > > > > > >Oh, golly, another one of my rudder "projects" found it's way onto the > > >for sale market.. > > >Just hope they don't X-ray it like the last few that popped up... :-) > > > > Yowee -- really ROTFL. Very funny Don... > > > > (Sorry, am still way behind on my mail.) > > > > Eric F. :--) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 13:46:28 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Tire Colors in WW I National Geographic Advertisements Message-ID: <35CE0AA4.70FB7172@mars.ark.com> even modern tyres are not actually black - try comparing a black colour chip to the ones on your car...it is actually a dark grey (and the difference increases the further away you get from it) I use a mid grey(battleship grey is good) for ww1 stuff and dark grey for anything else. -- Mike Fletcher mdf@mars.ark.com icq=3383016 ___ ., |-\|^----! ; |--n--""*" @ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:56:12 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: The last one passes Message-ID: <199808092112.HAA00791@mimmon.mim.com.au> Robert K. says, to my brief obituary: > >> A few hours ago, harold Edwards, the last surviving member of the >> Australian Flying Corps passed away as a consequence of complications >> following a fall a couple of days ago. He was 102. >Amazing. I don't know what happened to the days when the WW II guys were all >in their 40s and the WW I guys were all 60 something. Me either. I clearly remember marching (as a Boy Scout carrying a unit banner) in Anzac Day parades 30+ years ago with Great Uncles who'd fought in WW1 and Uncles returned from WW2. It seems like yesterday. Further to Harry Edwards obit., I had remembered a little of his story yesterday, then got cold feet about posting until I checked that I had the right guy. Harry Edwards was a watchmaker (instrument fitter we'd say today) in 3AFC. He was almost certainly the last man alive to have seen Manfred von Richtoffen, since he was assigned to guard the body when MvR was brought to 3AFC after his fatal flight. He engraved the circular plaque attached to the cross placed on MvR's first grave, and another which was attached to his coffin. This and other intersting minutiae in an interview published in C&CI V27#1 (1996) . Saw a TV interview late last night which was recorded on his 100th birthday. Looked about 70, which is how I recall him. A grand old man, who had a long life, now sadly gone to his mates Shane ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1154 **********************