WWI Digest 1146 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Jasta 5 scans, different view by fedders 2) RE: Latvian LVG C.VI by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 3) Re: Dragon DR1 kit by John Berlien 4) RE: Jasta 5 scans, different view by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 5) Copyrights - the FINAL word.... by aew (Allan Wright) 6) RE: Dark Slate Grey by KEITH REED 7) AD: Insignia No. 9 Now Published by Strata 8) Re: WARNING: SOAP BOX MODE ON (was Re: Oshkosh/Dietz/copyright by Dave Watts 9) Re: Pegasus (was Latvian LVG C.VI) by Bob Pearson 10) Re: Dark Slate Grey by "Tomas E. Tirado K" 11) Re: Rigging Help by "Tom Werner Hansen" 12) Middle east unofficail patch for rb2 by "cameron rile" 13) Re: announcing... by Bill Bacon 14) Re: Middle east unofficail patch for rb2 by Mike Fletcher 15) Re: FOTOCut by BStett3770@aol.com 16) Re: Revell DH2 (was: Thanks for your opinions) by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) 17) Re: Pegasus (was Latvian LVG C.VI) by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) 18) Re: Jasta 5 scans, different view by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) 19) Re: Clear doped linen by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) 20) Re: photos of interest......correction by martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:29:29 -0500 (CDT) From: fedders To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Jasta 5 scans, different view Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Ernest Thomas wrote: > Steven M. Perry wrote: > but in the case of > > the Americal/Gryphon scans which went around recently, I think the list > > probably did Americal more good than harm. > > Thanks. My feelings exactly. My complaint with A/G is that one is forced > to order sight unseen. If Mr Merrill would set up a site where one could > go and have a sqiz, (like Aeromaster), I think his sales would increase. > Just because J.V. send me those scans doesn't mean I'm gonna bootleg a > set of decals(i only bootleg stuff from big publishers). Now that I've > seen these images, I'm more interested in ordering those decals. > 2 sheckels worth... > E. > I asked Glen about a lack of website and he said that he would rather research markings and make decals that create a web site. He does have a full time job. peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:35:44 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Latvian LVG C.VI Message-ID: <01BDBEC2.17733140.panz-meador@vsti.com> jeff: i've got that booklet as well, and i believe the inside front cover is a depiction of this aircraft (?), so that B-R should have illustrated the lozenge. i'll take a look for color as well as shape of pattern, and that might set us along the right trail... phillip -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Curtis [SMTP:jcurtis@indy.net] Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 6:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Latvian LVG C.VI There's no mention of 4-color vs 5-color. Guess I'll have to find the LVG C.VI Windsock if I want to get serious about it, or if Blue RIder can be contacted via e-mail, I might be able to ask them directly. ---------- > From: Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: Latvian LVG C.VI > Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 3:39 PM > > jeff: don't know if anyone has answered this yet, buy there are a couple > of sources for lozenge decals, both upper and lower. if you've followed > the current thread, i'd recommend the americal-gryphon decals. their > address is contained in the archive as well as several of the recent > messages. i've their catalog already and can quote you prices (inc. > shipping), appropriate catalog numbers, etc. if needed. > > one thing you need to verify is whether the lozenge is 4 color or 5 color. > then build on. > > BTW, the B-R booklet does have a nice composite albatross in there, too > (D.III fuesalage + D.V wings if i recall, dark green with white outline on > fuesalage, wings, and tail group). that would make up into a nice model, > and i look forward to future AF special releases from B-R. > > phillip > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Curtis [SMTP:jcurtis@indy.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 10:40 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Latvian LVG C.VI > > I have a sheet of the Blue Rider Latvian Air Force decals. It includes > decals for a Sopwith Camel, a Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter, and the LVG C.VI. I > noticed Sierra and Pegasus kit the LVG C.VI, and I'm contemplating > purchasing one, probably the Pegasus. > > My question, the color specs that come with the Blue Rider decals, just > show a diamond pattern on the wings and rudder listed as upper lozenge > fabric and lower lozenge fabric. These are not included on the decal > sheet. References listed are Aviation News Vol 5 #23 & Vol 7 #11, as well > as Windsock Datafile 17. > > As these lozenge patterns available as decals anywhere, or should I just > forget the Latvian version of the LVG C.VI? > > Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:50:25 -0700 From: John Berlien To: wwi Subject: Re: Dragon DR1 kit Message-ID: Me too, please? Thanks, Jack j-berlien@ti.com ------------------ Original text From: "Jeff Curtis" , on 8/2/98 1:03 AM: Thanks so much for the scans! Can you corrupt me...... Hmmm, I think I'm already there.:) ---------- > From: Mike Dicianna > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Dragon DR1 kit > Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:43 PM > > At 09:09 PM 8/1/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I was eyeing the Dragon DR1 kit at a local hobby shop today. Any comments > >on the quality and accuracy of the kit? > > > >Thanks. > > > >Jeff > > > >Welcome to this list. I'm told there is a small outline problem with the > horizontal stabilizer. Nothing a little sanding/filing wont cure. Other > than that.... > > May I offer some scans of two of Germany's greatest fighter aces? I have some > wonderful scans that JoeyVal sent me. I would start with Ernst Udet, and then > work on MvR....Can we corrupt you early on... > > Mikedc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:46:19 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Jasta 5 scans, different view Message-ID: <01BDBEC3.9222DB60.panz-meador@vsti.com> rob: "me too!". when i originally mentioned a professional web site, i wasn't talking about modem-clogging rotating earths and crud like that. that's the hallmark of an ill-conceived and executed web site, and is quite likely what you'll get when you have a high-schooler (or 2 month HTML expert) doing your page; among other things, few high schoolers have the breadth of knowledge to pull together a well done site. you want functionality for your $s, not "cool". while 5k$US may sound high, what you get is ability to use credit in a secure environment (which requires special software as well as monthly "rental" and/or increased prices to deal with overhead, particularly if you accept AMEX), the utilization of something like Allare COld Fusion integrated with database software to do inventory and management, updating and maintenance, etc. there is no better way to screw up a small business and lose a friend than to have that friend do a "freebie" and then be responsible for it for eternity. real life doesn't work that way, and it's terribly naive to think it does. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Rob. [SMTP:rojo1@concentric.net] Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 1:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Jasta 5 scans, different view > Free web space is available all over the net. I am currently in the > process of expanding my own site to free areas of the web. > All that leaves the cost of a dialup isp - which for a good isp may run > $25 a month.. > No more excuses Americal I have met Dr. Merrill, and I have also offered to do a web-site for him. But the cost of developing a site is not the real issue. Dr. Merrill has managed to keep Americal going for some years doing things the way he has been, and I wouldn't second-guess him if he decides that a Web presence is a poor idea. You and I don't have the financial exposure or the years invested that he has. Americal has limited resources, and if the proprietor chooses to put them into research and silk-screening rather than a website, who am I to criticize? Criticisms like those that have been floating around on the list also show a remarkable ignorance of the realities facing a small business. There is no such thing as free. The so-called "free" space providers want to load the site with those annoying console ads, burrow into your PC with third-party stealth cookies, and gather the e-mail addresses of visitors for sale to spammers. Even if Americal were anxious to expose its narrow customer base to this, such sites are not usually available to commercial ventures. The cheapest commercial site is also about $40/month for e-mail and a couple of megs of storage and throughput. Secure servers for credit-card orders are quite a bit more, particularly if they generate heavy traffic. The $25 cited is possible for a non-commercial site, but still low. Someone suggested using a personal site for sales. Check your ISP's Terms of Service and you will see why this is a bad idea. Finally, accepting credit cards is itself not a cheap proposition. The credit card companies charge hefty fees. I don't know if Americal accepts them at present, but they didn't use to, doubtless for this reason. All of this stuff adds up and eats away at what is probably a startlingly slim margin. Add that to the fact that decals are not Dr. Merrill's real business in life, and you can understand why he might be reluctant to buy in (literally) to every scheme that comes off this list. By the way, I am a professional web developer (among other things), and I agree that the fees some charge for a couple of hours work is ludicrous. But that does not mean that they don't get charged and paid. Offers of free work are problematical for a businessman. Will the enthusiast stay in it for the long haul, uncompensated? Or will he lose interest and leave the business with angry customers, lost orders, and a damaged reputation? So I say, don't tell Merrill how to run his business. If you can do it better, start your own. Rob To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1. Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:31:36 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Copyrights - the FINAL word.... Message-ID: <199808031531.LAA24184@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Well, as administrator of the list, I have final responsibility for the content herin, or at least the continuation of the distribution of said content. That stated, here is my stand on the issue as it always has been in the past, and will be in the future. 1) This list will NOT be a medium for the distribution of copyrighted material, unless the distribution is approved by the copytight holder. (ex: Bob Pearson's profiles, modeler's photos, etc.) 2) Out of print, expired copytight material is acceptable for the list. Articles from old airfix magazines, etc. would be in thei catagory. (items that could be reprinted in the future is a grey area, that I'd like to err on the side of caution on by not transmitting via the list.) 3) Above all this list is to PROMOTE WWI modeling. That means that if it will hurt the (usually small) companies that manufacturer the products we consume then I'm for not distributing via the list. 4) In the above, distributing also includes soliciting the distribution off-line. Please, do what you want between yourselves, but let's not jeapordize the list's existance with this sort of behavior. Remember, we all count on the good graces of the University of New Hampshire for this list's services. One phone call from an irate company to anyone here and I'm sure my boss will pull our plug faster than you can ruin the strut allignment on an Airfix F2b..... Thanks, sorry to be a stiff shirt, Allan Wright - List administrotor. =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:33:44 -0700 From: KEITH REED To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Dark Slate Grey Message-ID: <01BDBEB9.893C4EA0.rkreed@tnet.net> Aidrian I would appreciate a set. Thanks Keith Reed Mailto: rkreed@tnet.net -----Original Message----- From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton [SMTP:Aidrian.Bs@connectorsystems.co.nz] Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 12:07 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Dark Slate Grey Alberto Rada wrote: > > Hi > > Although slightly out of topic ( its for a Stringbag ) should be considered > WW I although did half of the work for the other conflict. > > The upper surfaces where camouflaged in this color and in Extra Dark > Sea Grey ( this one I have ) > > I need an equivalent in Humbrol or Aeromaster or Modelmaster, ( enamel ) > for this color, ( Darke Slate Grey ) or what mix to use. > > I know that Xtracolor and Floquil have it, but they are not available in these > parts of the world > > MUCHAS GRACIAS > > SALUDOS > > Alberto Sir you show your excellent taste in Aeroplanes. I have a chart which I'll send you seperately for all the common WWII RAF/RN colours. Anyone else need a copy? Aidrian -- I've learnt by my mistakes and can repeat them perfectly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 17:14:13 +0100 From: Strata To: Subject: AD: Insignia No. 9 Now Published Message-ID: Issue 9 of Insignia Magazine is now published, featuring FREE 1/72 scale decals for a Costa Rican P-51D. Insignia now includes full colour covers. This issue has articles on The Gran Chaco Air War 1928-35, Danish Naval Air Service 1912-40, the Meindl/van Nes A-VII (M7) in Austrian and Ethiopian service, more Bulgarian DAR aircraft, the Lithuanian National Guard Air Wing in colour and features on Portuguese and Mexican national markings. Insignia Magazine retails at 4.50 (Pounds sterling). For further details and subscription information visit http://www.squadron.com/insignia or write to Blue Rider Publishing 43a Glasford Street London SW17 9HL United Kingdom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 11:11:08 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi Subject: Re: WARNING: SOAP BOX MODE ON (was Re: Oshkosh/Dietz/copyright Message-ID: <199808031613.LAA01063@sam.on-net.net> Bill Shatzer writes: > >-snips- > >>Compare the two photos I quoted in my posting about the Dr.I compass >>deviation table, and see which one is clearer. > >Well, I can't find that photo in Imrie's "The Fokker Triplane" >book. Page number? My reply to Dragon Dr.I posting >What are the requisite references for the DR.1, all I have is the Squadron >DR.1 In action. Need some pretty good interior shots... One nice detail that can be seen on page 32 of the new Schiffer book, by Schuster and Engels, is the compass deviation table on the back of the ammo belt box in the cockpit. The pisser is, that the caption for this photo on page 32 states, "A sample of this table can be found elsewhere within the pages of this book." The same photo can be seen more clearly on page 78 in Imrie's "The Fokker Triplane". I know I saw a copy or facsimile of one of these deviation tables in a old issue of Cross & Cockade of Great Britain. Someone may be able to help out here. If not I can go digging. Best To All! Dave W. >No - the "stain" could be on the original negative and would thus >show up on any prints off of that negative. Or, Imrie's print >could be a second-generation print made off a "damaged" orginal >print. Any other second-generation prints off the same "damaged" >original would show the same flaw. But, in any case, ownership of >a physical print does _not_ carry with it ownership of the copyright >for that print. The photograph had water damage to it, and therefore the stain. Hey, I'm a lover, not a fighter, I'll roll over. Thanks for the points Bill, they are well taken, and appreciated. I guess my lesson is, that if you have "discovered" any previously unknown photos, (that you paid any considerable amount for), you should try to "cash in" on them with first publication. Or be a good Joe and share them freely. I worked on a Spandau machine gun article for several months, making several drawings, etc., and have sent them, gratis, to the leading WWI authorities, and offered them for free on the postings here as well. It very well may appear in W.W.I Aero. It's easier for me to give away something I worked on, than something I paid for, just my nature I guess. Best Wishes, Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:54:53 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Pegasus (was Latvian LVG C.VI) Message-ID: <17545390817640@KAIEN.COM> Greetings all, One thing that is neat about the Pegasus Strutter is that the top wing is molded in clear plastic, with judicious masking this enables the cellon covered centre-section to be represented in a safe strong manner. I would also say I have built 4 or 5 of the Pegasus kits and haven't had any problems with them. Additionally I thought the LVG was one of the nicest molded injection kits I have come across (granted I haven't built it yet). regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: Suvoroff@aol.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Pegasus (was Latvian LVG C.VI) > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:31:31 -0400 > > "I do still have a spare Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter from pegasus if anyone is > interested in trading for it." > > Quick! Unload those Pegasus strutters before the Toko ones come out! > > (Sorry, could not help myself.) > > Yours, > James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 15:11:12 -0300 From: "Tomas E. Tirado K" To: wwi Subject: Re: Dark Slate Grey Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980803181112.006740f0@adinet.com.uy> At 11:51 PM 01/08/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Hi > >Although slightly out of topic ( its for a Stringbag ) should be considered >WW I although did half of the work for the other conflict. > >The upper surfaces where camouflaged in this color and in Extra Dark >Sea Grey ( this one I have )=20 > >I need an equivalent in Humbrol or Aeromaster or Modelmaster, ( enamel )=20 >for this color, ( Darke Slate Grey ) or what mix to use. > >I know that Xtracolor and Floquil have it, but they are not available in= these >parts of the world > >MUCHAS GRACIAS > >SALUDOS > > >Alberto > Alberto As per the new "Humbrol colour system", dark slate gray, a Fleet Air Arm color, is directly from the can Nr. 102 For the Extra Dark Sea Gray ( BS.640) they used Humbrol No. 123 from the= can Best regards Tomas -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Tomas E. Tirado Kr=FCger ** tomasetk@adinet.com.uy ** or ** ipmsuy@geocities.com.** Engineer., 47, 5 children, Ship modeler, usually 1/700, also aircraft 1/72 WWI, Luftwaffe wwII, USN & USAF wwII to present. IPMS - Uruguay active member in Montevideo City - Uruguay visit us at: * http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2110/ * "ToTal-Hobbies" owner, Phone/Fax Nr. (598) 2 695.8403=20 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:19:56 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Rigging Help Message-ID: <199808031822.UAA26682@d1o211.telia.com> Ernest Unless your tongue was way into your cheek when you wrote this I advice you not do it. Human hair stretches and tightens with the humidity of the air. You don't want a plane that wiggles its wings in tune with changes in the weather. On the other hand you might have seen those little houses with a guy with an umbrella that comes out on one side when humidity is high, and a fattish woman who goes in to get out of the rain. It would possibly be neat to have a DH 4 that did this. Tom ---------- > From: Ernest Thomas > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Rigging Help > Date: 03. august 1998 13:29 > > Mike Fletcher wrote: > > > btw what is 1/144th scale called - and better how do you rig that!? (I > > have a white metal BE.2a) > > I was planning on stealing a few hairs from my daughter to rig my 144 > Dh-4. I'll let you know how it comes out. > E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 04:20:40 -0300 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi Subject: Middle east unofficail patch for rb2 Message-ID: <199808031126521@cameron.prontomail.com> hi all With the help of ppl from this list notably Bob Pearson , Mike Muth and Fernando Lamas ( thanx again ), i have organized the data fior a red baron 2 unofficial patch . I have 90% of the bmps done and am now starting on the tortuous hex editing that has to come :( . Anyway this is the info i have ( and what i am missing ) if u guys would like to pick over it to make sure it is correct i would appreciate it , especially if anyone has an interest in that theatre of WW1. Palestine FA300 ( rumpler CI's and pfalz EII's) Jasta Felmy ( DIII's ) Jasta 1F ( Alb DIII's , Dva's , Pfalz DIIIa's ) FA301 ( Rumpler CI's ) FA302 ( Rumpler CI's ) FA303 ( Rumpler CI's ) FA304b ( Rumpler CI's ) *there was a mix of AEG CIV's in these squads too except for FA300 1 AFC ( Be2's , Be12's , RE8's , bristol scouts , martinsydes , brisfits , handley page 0/400 , se5a's ) 14 RFC ( be2's ) 113 RFC ( be2's RE8's ) 111 RFC ( DH2 , bristol Fb19 , scout , M1C and brisfit , se5a's ) 17 RFC ( vickers gunbus , Be2a ) palestine 1915/1916 salonika late 1916 , movements lost after that. RNAS/ Esc de Port Said ( niueports VI , VIII , sopwith schneiders , sopwith babys ) "X" squadron 23 RFC bomber training ( be2c's ) Mesopotamia 30RFC ( Be2's , vickers gunbus , brisfit ) FA305 ( Rumpler CI's ) Turkish 14 squadron ( albatros CIII's and halberstadts? ) Dardanelles RNAS Eastchurch squadron 1915 - 1916 ( be2a's ) FA6 ( EIII's , alb and halb DII's , Alb DIII's , Alb DVa's , plus captured N17's , N11's and brisfits ) that is what i got , i have a pic which is noted as 3RFC Middle East with a pic of a bristol M1C . anyone have info on 3RFC and if they were in the middle east in 1917? Does anyone have info on what squadrons were fighting against FA6 up in the dardanelles? these are the aces / notable pilots i have for game thus far , anyone know of any others that should be in there or any corrections to the current list? Buddecke FA6 ( german/turkish 28 ) Paul 1AFC ( NZ , 5 , yellow bristol scout ) Weir 1AFC ( Au , ? , yellow bristol scout ) Smith 1AFC ( Au , 11 , white brisfit ) Bulow FA300 ( german , ? , standard rumpler ) Meinecke FA6 ( german , 6 , ? ) Drummond 111RFC ( Au , 8 , standard ) McGinness 1AFC (Au , 7 , standard ) Felmy FA300 , Jasta 300 ( german , at least 5 , white rumpler with two black circles , standard DIII? ) once again thanx to those on this list who sent me info or led me to sources on more info for this endeavour. I dont know if i am becoming a dedictaed gamer , game developer or historian , either way it is chewing up all my time :)also thanx for the list , the info here that gets posted about is extremely interesting. cam footnote , hope the formatting i did works . Visit my homepage at http://www.prontomail.com/Prontomail/users/cameron ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 13:40:04 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: announcing... Message-ID: <35C60404.5728@netjava.net> Ernest Thomas wrote: > > Henry Falstaff Thomas > 7-30-98 2:07am > 7lbs, 14 oz. > 20 in. > > Everyone happy, tired and healthy./%} Wow!!!! A belated congratulations. My wife's machine died, gave her mine, bought a new one. Everything works now I think. Quite a youngster. Pictures??? Best wishes and continued health and prosperity to all. Cheers, Bill B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 12:19:39 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Middle east unofficail patch for rb2 Message-ID: <35C60D4B.31E9D7A4@mars.ark.com> I believe the RNAS/Port Said types (depending on period) should have been Nieuport IV.H and VI.H, Sopwiths Schneider and Baby, and Short 184 Mike Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:48:56 EDT From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: FOTOCut Message-ID: <6a07fdee.35c62239@aol.com> Hi Dave Fotocut's not online. But he is alive & well. His address Fotocut Erieville Road Box 120 Erieville, NY 13061 USA BTW if you want to see a list of his range I have it on my web site. Keep Modeling Barry Rosemont Hobby www.swiftsite.com/rosemonthobby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:32:04 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: Re: Revell DH2 (was: Thanks for your opinions) Message-ID: <19980803223204.0e63998a2a7e11d2b578004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> Steven Perry wrote: >>I noticed that you mentioned in a post to the list that you had details on >>24 Squadron's markings. >> >>Do you have anything on No. 5998? I'm currenetly modeling that airframe >>using a Smer kit as the basis for the model. Also, do you know anything >>definite about when the sawtooth pattern on the bottom of the nacelle was >>adopted? >> >>I did the Revell 1:72 DH-2 as a kid. It's one of the kits on my "Buy On >>Sight" list. >> My advice to anyone is, if you see one, get it. I was once lucky enough to be offered six boxed ones (boxes still sellotaped up) by a shop that had bought someone's collection. Can't recall what I paid for them but I know someone contacted me who was so desperate that he bought two off me for the price I paid for the six. My remaining four now make a very nice 24 sqn flight. I don't have anything on 5998 in particular, I'm afraid. My details of 24's markings are quite general. Here's what I do have: 1. All a/c PC10 upper surfaces, fin and nacelle top/sides. 2. All a/c clear doped lower surfaces. 3. All a/c teak interplane struts, u/c struts and booms (except as below). 4. Inner and outer wheel covers red. 5. Saw-toothed pattern on nacelle underside where PC10 dope is 'wrapped' under to meet the clear dope. The saw toothing appears to be about 8 inches between points and has a 45degree angle (forming a series of equilateral triangles). Sorry, but I have no idea whether the saw-tooth dope pattern was regular for all a/c or the spacing and shape/number of teeth varied between a/c. On my models I have 10 teeth down each side which I know is overscale but as I handpainted I kind of admitted defeat. The saw-tooth was curved around the underside of the nacelle bow, with the PC10 teeth maintaining their shape and the slices of clear dope being reduced. I have 3 'teeth' around the curve of the bow, again, overscale. The teeth do not run under the lower plane. I have always assumed the a/c flew to Belgium with this scheme. Replacement machines may have been given it upon receipt by the squadron. 6. Small RFC roundel below and slightly abaft the cockpit side. 7. The outboard pair of struts of each machine were painted alternating horizontal bands of red and white, with the colour pattern usually (but not always) reversed for each trailing strut. That is, if the leading strut on each wing was painted red-white-red-white-red, then the trailing ones would be white-red-white-red-white. The reversed colours do not seem to have been a hard rule. At first I thought this was a squadron marking but I understand now it was a pilot marking (or rather an individual machine marking). There is a famous photo of 24 lined up at Bertangles and it's quite easy to make out that the strut paint pattern varied. I can identify: red-white-red-white-red with white-red-white-red-white red-red-white-red-red with red-white-red-white-red (that is, the leading strut has the white band the same length as the middle red band of the trailing strut - sorry is that clear as mud or what?). red-white-red-white-red with all red. then come two a/c too dark to be identified (all red struts? all teak struts as in newly received machines???). white-white-red-white-white with all red. red-red-white-red-red with all red. red-white-red-white-red with (blurred)...red-white remaining a/c indistinct. Note sqn strength in this line-up is 18 DH2s and 1 Morane Bullet. The caption indicates that this was the line up prior to the Somme offensive so this *may* have been a tactical innovation by Lanoe Hawker which was absent when the squadron first arrived in Belgium. I just don't know. In the line up is a single Morane Bullet, painted in that plane's 'usual' red spinner and upper cowling scheme. 7. The fuel tank on the upper wing could be located slightly to port or starboard of centreline. It could also be mounted beneath the upper wing in either position. The Revell kit as you know locates it on the upper plane, to port. The photos I have are so poor though that it isn't possible to identify any machine numbers. 32 sqn, on the other hand, had clear doped fins and clear doped nacelle sides up to the stitched join with the curved bow plate and up to the main horizontal stitch line that ran horizontally the length of the nacelle (these joints are clearly depicted in the Revel kit). Rest of nacelle surfaces PC10. A good close up of a 32 sqn DH2 shows this clear doped area nicely stained with castor oil. A further picture of a 32 sqn line up at Vert Galant in August/September shows 4 machines, nearest camera has the fuel tank on the top plane to starboard, next has it on top plane to port and last pair don't show it which means it was mounted on the underside of the top plane. All 32 sqn machines in this view show uniformly dark struts. Also, only the third one from camera displays a number on the rudder. All these photos are from Alex Revell's "British Fighter Units - Western Front 1914-16", an old Osprey/Airwar series title, long out of print with all the photos credited to private collections, :( I would comment that the kit's elevator arm is overscale by about 100% and is mounted too high - it should be almost level with the floor of the nacelle. The kit omits the small streamlined fin like bulge under the nacelle centreline (don't know what this is) and the Lewis drum rack on the kit is to starboard while the photos I have all show it to port. Ivan Subrt wrote: >I've never seen bagged version of Revell kits before. What is the boxart >like? >I'm very interested in old Revell and Airfix (and to lesser extent ESCI) >boxarts - not these awful built model photos. I have only Revell Camel >and SE-5 and Airfix Hannover Cl.IIIa. The box art was pretty good. For some crazy reason I threw away all my DH2 boxes (aaaaaaarrrrggghhh!) even though I kept the box lid of one of them for a while. I have examples of the three stages of Revell box art: an original Sopwith Triplane (I can send a scan of this box lid to anyone who wants it - send me an off list request), the later 'broader' box with art on. I have a Morane Bullet of this - still a nice painting (ditto for scan if interested). Finally the broad box that was deeper and has the model photo on (the Dr.I all in bright red - yuck, awful!). I have several Airfix boxes if you want scans of them. Hannover (with that dreadful bed-quilt lozenge), Alb DVa, Spad VII, Roland. Martin "The little man on the pavement jumped comically - no doubt with terror - as the bomb fell beside him. Then blinding flames squirted out in all directions from the point of impact, and the little man who had jumped became, for an instant, a flash of fire and vanished - vanished absolutely. The people running out into the road took preposterous clumsy leaps, then flopped down and lay still, with their clothes torn and smouldering into flame." - The bombing of New York, from "The War in the Air" H.G.Wells, 1908. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:32:00 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: Re: Pegasus (was Latvian LVG C.VI) Message-ID: <19980803223200.0e6399882a7e11d2b578004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> > >Greetings all, > >One thing that is neat about the Pegasus Strutter is that the top wing is >molded in clear plastic, with judicious masking this enables the cellon >covered centre-section to be represented in a safe strong manner. > >I would also say I have built 4 or 5 of the Pegasus kits and haven't had any >problems with them. Additionally I thought the LVG was one of the nicest >molded injection kits I have come across (granted I haven't built it yet). > >regards, > Bob Pearson > I find Pegasus not too bad. I've got their Snipe, Bristol M1C and Hanriot HD.1 and all are reasonable kits, with none of the hideous warped fuselages mentioned. I'd give their Roland D.VIb a big thumbs up to. My copy had a very clean moulding - reminds me of the better Airfix products. I must have been lucky and bought it when the mould was young. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:37:22 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 5 scans, different view Message-ID: <19980803223722.0e6399a12a7e11d2b578004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> >But, if you're not satisfied with the decals you receive, ship 'em >back with a note explaining the problem. I've done that twice and >each time replacement sheets were sent me, promptly and with >no questions or quibbling or additional charge. > Actually he is legally bound to do that. It's not a favour. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:37:24 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: Re: Clear doped linen Message-ID: <19980803223724.0e6399a22a7e11d2b578004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> >In a message dated 98-08-02 20:43:52 EDT, you write: > ><< My favorite is Testors Modern Dessert Sand. Mike Muth >> > >Ah yes, a good dessert sand with a nice chianti after dinner :) Glen > slurp, slurp, slurp - Dr Hannibal Lector ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:48:57 +0100 From: martinsc@pipemedia.co.uk (Martin Soilleux-Cardwell) To: wwi Subject: Re: photos of interest......correction Message-ID: <19980803224857.0e6399cf2a7e11d2b578004f4b00cee4.in@mailrelay.pipemedia.net> >Sorry about that, the eBay listing for the German Albatros photo item # is >22927456. Haven't looked around this site but how did you find it and does it auction WWI era stuff often? It strikes me that with the ability to take the image off your screen, and print it, it kind of makes a mockery of auctioning a photograph! The Strutter is interesting. Number is F9776 and it is either American or is British and has forced landed on an American aerodrome. The concrete runway indicates this may be in the States just post war. I suspect the Albatros C type being refulled is also in the States post-war. The huge flat caps give it a 1920's feel and the machine seems to lack military markings. An interesting find. Thanks for pointing us to it. Martin "The little man on the pavement jumped comically - no doubt with terror - as the bomb fell beside him. Then blinding flames squirted out in all directions from the point of impact, and the little man who had jumped became, for an instant, a flash of fire and vanished - vanished absolutely. The people running out into the road took preposterous clumsy leaps, then flopped down and lay still, with their clothes torn and smouldering into flame." - The bombing of New York, from "The War in the Air" H.G.Wells, 1908. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1146 **********************