WWI Digest 1098

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Off subject but worth the time.
	by "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
  2) Re: Happy day
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  3) Re: Off subject but worth the time.
	by "Charles Duckworth" <cnlduckwor@ninenet.com>
  4) Librarians choice:  Vintage Warbird books (J.M. Bruce et al).
	by mgoodwin@ricochet.net
  5) Re: Off subject but worth the time.
	by Mike Dicianna <mikedc@proaxis.com>
  6) Re: Happy day
	by Bill Bacon <wbacon@netjava.net>
  7) Re: Off subject but worth the time.
	by Bill Bacon <wbacon@netjava.net>
  8) Re: Off subject but worth the time.
	by KarrArt@aol.com
  9) Re: Happy day
	by nieuport@juno.com (scott scarborough)
 10) Re: Librarians choice:  Vintage Warbird books (J.M. Bruce et al).
	by KarrArt@aol.com
 11) Re: Happy day
	by nieuport@juno.com (scott scarborough)
 12) Re: Happy day
	by "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
 13) Happy 4th
	by Zulis@aol.com
 14) Off Topic: For Lee Mensinger and the W.W. II Generation
	by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." <lamas@olympus.net>
 15) Re: Off Topic: For Lee Mensinger and the W.W. II Generation
	by KarrArt@aol.com
 16) Re: Nationals/Good Joe award
	by KarrArt@aol.com
 17) Hamel plus 80 years
	by Shane Weier <SDW@qld.mim.com.au>
 18) 4 July
	by Pedro e Francisca Soares <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
 19) Re: Off subject but worth the time.
	by "Jim Lyzun" <aero@baynet.net>
 20) Re: Happy day
	by "Jim Lyzun" <aero@baynet.net>
 21) July 4
	by "Mike Muth" <bucky@ptd.net>
 22) Re: July 4
	by KarrArt@aol.com
 23) Re: Happy day
	by Nigel Rayner <raynerz@mindspring.com>
 24) Re: Nationals/Good Joe award
	by "S.M.Sundberg" <sms@netins.net>
 25) Re: Happy day
	by "Alexandre de C. Triffoni" <atcampos@nutecnet.com.br>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 20:50:16 -0500
From: "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi>
Subject: Off subject but worth the time.
Message-ID: <359D8A58.31017F1F@wireweb.net>

For the heretics and others who respond with wise remarks or believe
they have problems.  Lee


What Happened to the Signers of the Declaration of Independence ?

Five signers were captured by the British and brutally tortured as
traitors. Nine fought in the War for Independence and died from wounds
or from hardships they suffered. Two lost their sons in the Continental
Army.  Another two had sons captured. At least a dozen of the fifty-six
had their homes pillaged and burned.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-five were lawyers or jurists. Eleven
were merchants. Nine were farmers or large plantation owners. One was a
teacher, one a musician, and one a printer. These were men of means and
education, yet they signed the Declaration of Independence, knowing full
well that the penalty could be death if they were captured.

In the face of the advancing British Army, the Continental Congress fled
from Philadelphia to Baltimore on December 12, 1776. It was an
especially anxious time for John Hancock, the President, as his wife had
just given birth to a baby girl. Due to the complications stemming from
the trip to Baltimore, the child lived only a few months.

William Ellery's signing at the risk of his fortune proved only too
realistic. In December 1776, during three days of British occupation of
Newport, Rhode Island, Ellery's house was burned, and all his property
destroyed.

Richard Stockton, a New Jersey State Supreme Court Justice, had rushed
back to his estate near Princeton after signing the Declaration of
Independence to find that his wife and children were living like
refugees with friends.  They had been betrayed by a Tory sympathizer,
who also,  revealed  Stockton's own whereabouts. British troops pulled
him from his bed one night, beat him and threw him in jail where he
almost starved to death. When he was finally released, he went home to
find his estate had been looted, his possessions burned, and his horses
stolen. Judge Stockton had been so badly treated in prison that his
health was ruined and he died before the war's end. His surviving family
had to live the remainder of their lives off charity.

Carter Braxton was a wealthy planter and trader. One by one, his ships
were captured,  by the British navy. He loaned a large sum of money to
the American cause; it was never paid back. He was forced to sell his
plantations and mortgage his other properties to pay his debts.

Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he had to move his
family almost constantly. He served in the Continental Congress without
pay, and kept his family in hiding.

Vandals or soldiers or both looted the properties of Clymer, Hall,
Harrison, Hopkinson and Livingston. Seventeen lost everything they
owned. Thomas Heyward, Jr., Edward Rutledge and Arthur Middleton, all of
South Carolina, were captured by the British ,during the Charleston
Campaign in 1780. They were kept in dungeons at the St. Augustine Prison
until exchanged a year later.
At the Battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr. noted that the British
General Cornwallis had taken over the family home for his headquarters.
Nelson urged General George Washington to open fire on his own home.
This was done, and the home was destroyed. Nelson later died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis also had his home and properties destroyed. The British
jailed his wife for two months, and that and other hardships from the
war so affected her health that she died only two years later. "Honest
John" Hart, a New Jersey farmer, was driven from his wife's bedside when
she was near death. Their thirteen children fled for their lives.

Hart's fields and his grist mill were laid waste. For over a year he
eluded capture by hiding in nearby forests. He never knew where his bed
would be the next night and often slept in caves. When he finally
returned home, he found that his wife had died, his children
disappeared, and his farm and stock were completely destroyed. Hart
himself died in 1779 without ever seeing any of his family again.



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 21:02:07 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <359D8D1F.584B@bellsouth.net>

Lee Mensinger wrote:

> Ernest, you are a pain in the ass.

FU...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:08:09 -0500
From: "Charles Duckworth" <cnlduckwor@ninenet.com>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Off subject but worth the time.
Message-ID: <199807040210.VAA15169@mail.primary.net>

Lee, thanks for taking the time to put together the history of the signers
of the Declaration of Independence.  'Very' worthwhile reading.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:03:21 -0700
From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net
To: wwi
Subject: Librarians choice:  Vintage Warbird books (J.M. Bruce et al).
Message-ID: <359D8D69.34BF@ricochet.net>

I picked up a couple of these at the Nationals; Nieuport Aircraft and
The Bristol Fighter. They set me back only a couple sawbucks (for both),
and at this price they are an exceptional value as references.  I also
have the Sopwith Fighters book, which I is still my favorite.
FWIW, there were three others in the series on one of the tables, Air
War Over Great Britain 1914-1918 (Rimell), German Aces of WWI (Imrie;
great book if you're a Teutophile) and World War One in the Air (Rimell)
which contains air-to-air shots, all of them rare and most remarkable.
The sequence of the tri-color Fokker D.II is particularly interesting.
Couldn't get all of them as I'd already given Tom a bunch of my money.

Cheers,

Riordan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:24:27 +0000
From: Mike Dicianna <mikedc@proaxis.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Off subject but worth the time.
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980703192427.006a9ff4@proaxis.com>

At 10:12 PM 7/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Lee, thanks for taking the time to put together the history of the signers
>of the Declaration of Independence.  'Very' worthwhile reading.
>
>Ditto....My wife was checking my email for me...She is more and more
impressed with the quality of people on this list!   keep it up!
>Mikedc


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 21:26:07 -0500
From: Bill Bacon <wbacon@netjava.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <359D92BF.B31D49D5@netjava.net>

Ernest,

If you have been shot at, that is one thing but if you haven't, some of
us on this list put our lives on the line so you could pop off.  Be
careful lest we call in our markers.

Bill B.

Ernest Thomas wrote:

> Lee Mensinger wrote:
>
> > Ernest, you are a pain in the ass.
>
> FU...




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 21:43:07 -0500
From: Bill Bacon <wbacon@netjava.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Off subject but worth the time.
Message-ID: <359D96BB.C8903A3C@netjava.net>

Lee,

Thank you,  maybe they will understand.  The lunch has never been free.
They should cherish what they have and above all realise the price that was
paid.  Please join me in a glass to those who will never grow old.  You and
I knew too many.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Lee Mensinger wrote:

> For the heretics and others who respond with wise remarks or believe
> they have problems.  Lee
>
> What Happened to the Signers of the Declaration of Independence ?
>
> Five signers were captured by the British and brutally tortured as
> traitors. Nine fought in the War for Independence and died from wounds
> or from hardships they suffered. Two lost their sons in the Continental
> Army.  Another two had sons captured. At least a dozen of the fifty-six
> had their homes pillaged and burned.
>
> What kind of men were they? Twenty-five were lawyers or jurists. Eleven
> were merchants. Nine were farmers or large plantation owners. One was a
> teacher, one a musician, and one a printer. These were men of means and
> education, yet they signed the Declaration of Independence, knowing full
> well that the penalty could be death if they were captured.
>
> In the face of the advancing British Army, the Continental Congress fled
> from Philadelphia to Baltimore on December 12, 1776. It was an
> especially anxious time for John Hancock, the President, as his wife had
> just given birth to a baby girl. Due to the complications stemming from
> the trip to Baltimore, the child lived only a few months.
>
> William Ellery's signing at the risk of his fortune proved only too
> realistic. In December 1776, during three days of British occupation of
> Newport, Rhode Island, Ellery's house was burned, and all his property
> destroyed.
>
> Richard Stockton, a New Jersey State Supreme Court Justice, had rushed
> back to his estate near Princeton after signing the Declaration of
> Independence to find that his wife and children were living like
> refugees with friends.  They had been betrayed by a Tory sympathizer,
> who also,  revealed  Stockton's own whereabouts. British troops pulled
> him from his bed one night, beat him and threw him in jail where he
> almost starved to death. When he was finally released, he went home to
> find his estate had been looted, his possessions burned, and his horses
> stolen. Judge Stockton had been so badly treated in prison that his
> health was ruined and he died before the war's end. His surviving family
> had to live the remainder of their lives off charity.
>
> Carter Braxton was a wealthy planter and trader. One by one, his ships
> were captured,  by the British navy. He loaned a large sum of money to
> the American cause; it was never paid back. He was forced to sell his
> plantations and mortgage his other properties to pay his debts.
>
> Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he had to move his
> family almost constantly. He served in the Continental Congress without
> pay, and kept his family in hiding.
>
> Vandals or soldiers or both looted the properties of Clymer, Hall,
> Harrison, Hopkinson and Livingston. Seventeen lost everything they
> owned. Thomas Heyward, Jr., Edward Rutledge and Arthur Middleton, all of
> South Carolina, were captured by the British ,during the Charleston
> Campaign in 1780. They were kept in dungeons at the St. Augustine Prison
> until exchanged a year later.
> At the Battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr. noted that the British
> General Cornwallis had taken over the family home for his headquarters.
> Nelson urged General George Washington to open fire on his own home.
> This was done, and the home was destroyed. Nelson later died bankrupt.
>
> Francis Lewis also had his home and properties destroyed. The British
> jailed his wife for two months, and that and other hardships from the
> war so affected her health that she died only two years later. "Honest
> John" Hart, a New Jersey farmer, was driven from his wife's bedside when
> she was near death. Their thirteen children fled for their lives.
>
> Hart's fields and his grist mill were laid waste. For over a year he
> eluded capture by hiding in nearby forests. He never knew where his bed
> would be the next night and often slept in caves. When he finally
> returned home, he found that his wife had died, his children
> disappeared, and his farm and stock were completely destroyed. Hart
> himself died in 1779 without ever seeing any of his family again.




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:52:16 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Off subject but worth the time.
Message-ID: <8ecd6f15.359da6f1@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-07-03 21:52:06 EDT, you write:

<< What Happened to the Signers of the Declaration of Independence ? >>

I've printed this one!
Thanks, Lee
Robert K.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:57:27 EDT
From: nieuport@juno.com (scott scarborough)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <19980323.171624.9238.0.nieuport@juno.com>


On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 15:33:42 -0400 michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT)
writes:
>Happy independance day to all the u.s. members of this list from
>Belgium.
>Regards.
>
>--
>Michel Lefort <ipms.belgium@ping.be> - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium
>IPMS Belgium Treasurer & Foreign Liaison Officer (member F012)
>MAFVA member #6708
>http://www.ping.be/ipms-belgium
>Plastic Modelling is holding History in your Hand
>
Michel,                                                                  
                                                                         
       Thank you for wishing us a happy independence day. It truly is
important to us, or at least to me. Our two countries are forever linked
through the blood lost on your soil. Thank you.                          
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                              Scott

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:15:48 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Librarians choice:  Vintage Warbird books (J.M. Bruce et al).
Message-ID: <5d573c95.359dac75@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-07-03 22:14:44 EDT, you write:

<< Nieuport Aircraft and
 The Bristol Fighter the Sopwith Fighters book, Air
 War Over Great Britain 1914-1918 (Rimell), German Aces of WWI (Imrie;
 great book if you're a Teutophile) and World War One in the Air (Rimell)
 which contains air-to-air shots, all of them rare and most remarkable. >>

All neat books. Grab 'em whenever you see 'em!
Robert K.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 00:17:38 EDT
From: nieuport@juno.com (scott scarborough)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <19980323.173646.9238.1.nieuport@juno.com>


On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:19:19 -0400 "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
writes:
>Michel LEFORT wrote:
>
>> Happy independance day to all the u.s. members of this list from
>> Belgium.
>> Regards.
>>
>> --
>> Michel Lefort <ipms.belgium@ping.be> - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium
>> IPMS Belgium Treasurer & Foreign Liaison Officer (member F012)
>> MAFVA member #6708
>> http://www.ping.be/ipms-belgium
>> Plastic Modelling is holding History in your Hand
>
>Michel,Having been a member of the 99th Infantry Division during the
>Battle of the Bulge and being welcomed by the Belgian people of
>Krinkelt, Eupen, Elsenborn, Rocherath, Butgenbach and many other 
>towns,
>I know personally that you are sincere in your regards for our 4th of
>July as are the vast majority of Belgians.  Thank you for saying so on
>the list.  Lee J Mensinger, H Company, 395 Infantry Regimental Combat
>Team, 99th Division.
>
>Ernest, you are a pain in the ass.
>
>
>
Lee did you spend time in the Hurtgen forest prior to the bulge? Thank
you sir for your service to this country, God bless you. I only wish that
the people in Washington today had the same character and moral fiber
that the young men had in your day.                                      
                                                                         
              Scott

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:39:55 -0500
From: "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <359DB21A.1BF5080E@wireweb.net>

scott scarborough wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:19:19 -0400 "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
> writes:
> >Michel LEFORT wrote:
> >
> >> Happy independance day to all the u.s. members of this list from
> >> Belgium.
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michel Lefort <ipms.belgium@ping.be> - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium
> >> IPMS Belgium Treasurer & Foreign Liaison Officer (member F012)
> >> MAFVA member #6708
> >> http://www.ping.be/ipms-belgium
> >> Plastic Modelling is holding History in your Hand
> >
> >Michel,Having been a member of the 99th Infantry Division during the
> >Battle of the Bulge and being welcomed by the Belgian people of
> >Krinkelt, Eupen, Elsenborn, Rocherath, Butgenbach and many other
> >towns,
> >I know personally that you are sincere in your regards for our 4th of
>
> >July as are the vast majority of Belgians.  Thank you for saying so
> on
> >the list.  Lee J Mensinger, H Company, 395 Infantry Regimental Combat
>
> >Team, 99th Division.
> >
> >Ernest, you are a pain in the ass.
> >
> >
> >
> Lee did you spend time in the Hurtgen forest prior to the bulge? Thank
>
> you sir for your service to this country, God bless you. I only wish
> that
> the people in Washington today had the same character and moral fiber
> that the young men had in your day.
>
>               Scott

I missed out on the fun and games in the Hurtgen Forest.  I arrived
almost immediately afterward and was assigned to be a heavy machine
gunner with a water cooled 30.

Went on to be among the first hundred across the Remagen Bridge,  and
traveled up and down Germany from Remagen to the Ruhr and back soputh to
geissen and then east to pilsen and back to a small town next to the
Russian occupied zone.  A little town called Mellrichstadt was our home
base when the shooting stopped.  I recently saw the movie about the
Hurtgen.  Things like that really happened but not quite as rapidly as
in the movie.  We had months, they had two hours.  Thank you for the
congratulations it is appreciated.  I went on to become a Weather
forecaster in the Air Force and spent a total of 25 1/2 years in with
3.5 years in south east Asia.  Three battle stars on the area ribbon.
Mainly because I was the only USAF forecaster with a Combat Infantry
Badge.  We made the forecasts for the army units with choppers.  I also
worked in other places like Thailand so there were good times also.
Sometimes it seems that it doesn't pay to be a winner.   At 73 years old
any thanks is greatly appreciated.

Lee

>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:56:56 EDT
From: Zulis@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Happy 4th
Message-ID: <fa861c2d.359db61a@aol.com>




Best wishes to our friends "South of our Border" for a great 4th of July.
Party hardy.... you have plenty to celebrate.  

Dave Z

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:43:18 -0700
From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." <lamas@olympus.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Off Topic: For Lee Mensinger and the W.W. II Generation
Message-ID: <E0ysM2Y-0001ea-00@olympus.net>

Lee Mensinger wrote:
>
>Michel,Having been a member of the 99th Infantry Division during the
>Battle of the Bulge and being welcomed by the Belgian people of
>Krinkelt, Eupen, Elsenborn, Rocherath, Butgenbach and many other towns,
>I know personally that you are sincere in your regards for our 4th of
>July as are the vast majority of Belgians.  Thank you for saying so on
>the list.  Lee J Mensinger, H Company, 395 Infantry Regimental Combat
>Team, 99th Division.
>
..........
>Sometimes it seems that it doesn't pay to be a winner.   At 73 years old
>any thanks is greatly appreciated.


   I have studied history since I was a kid.  However, I now look back and
regret not having expressed thanks to those who shaped history while I had
the chance.  

   As a medical student in the 1970's, the 70+ year-olds we treated in my
rotations in the Veteran's Administration Hospital were WW I veterans.  I
remember the joyful surprise that one WW I veteran had when he told me where
he served and guessed his division.  In the blink of an eye, 22 years have
passed and so has the W.W. I generation.  I never said "thanks".

   My family is a recent addition to America, arriving in 1960.  As far as
warfare is concerened, we did our fighting and dying in the wars of Cuban
independence in the 1800's, took a break during WW I and WW II, and resumed
fighting against Batista in the 1950's, against Castro at the Bay of Pigs,
and in Vietnam and in the Cold War.

   However, as a student of history, I realize that the defining moment of
the 20th Century was the Allied victory in WW II.  Without it, nothing else
(least of all, Cuba) would have mattered.

   When historians look back at Roman history, they see the period of the
Second Punic War as Rome's finest hour.  It was a period when the survival
of Western civilisation was on the line and Rome persevered through
discipline and sacrifice against monumental odds.  Unfortunately, the
triumph brought about a complacency and decadence in Roman society that
evetually brought down the Empire.

   One hundered and two hundred years from now, historians will recognize
the WW II generation as the generation that again saved Western civilisation
and everything else will be a footnote.  

   So, Lee and your comrades of the WW II generation:   "Thank you."   

   Although I love America dearly, it seems to me that the complacency of
the security that was bought by your sacrifices and by your victory has
brought about a gradual decline in the character of our nation.  Perhaps
that is the irony of history. 

   Your generation was, and is very likely to remain, our "Finest Hour".

   Fernando Lamas
   CDR, MC, USNR (Ret.)

   

   

   

   


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:07:20 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Off Topic: For Lee Mensinger and the W.W. II Generation
Message-ID: <bfc9d651.359dd4a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-07-04 02:44:20 EDT, you write:

<< One hundered and two hundred years from now, historians will recognize
 the WW II generation as the generation that again saved Western civilisation
 and everything else will be a footnote.   >>

Reminds me of a bit I heard a comedian do a few years ago. He was turning 30
and comparing his accomplishments to his father's. The father had helped
support his folks during a depression, fought and won a world war, went to
school and earned a degree on the GI Bill, got married, had a son, and built a
house. The son greatest feat was that he had managed to collect all the Planet
of the Apes movies on video!
Robert K.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:07:21 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Nationals/Good Joe award
Message-ID: <425b602d.359dd4aa@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-07-03 01:20:35 EDT, you write:

<< There were
 very nice collections of finely executed WWI fighters, in addition to a
 very impressive scratchbuilt 1/48 Taube and 1/24 Ninack. I don't know
 who the maniacs were that built them, but I can only hope to be as mad
 some day. >>

I've heard now that the Ninack was by John Alcorn- the guy who put together
the book of amazing scratch builts a few years ago. I think it was called
something like  Scratchbuilt!
Robert K.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:29:10 +1000
From: Shane Weier <SDW@qld.mim.com.au>
To: "'wwi'" <wwi>
Subject: Hamel plus 80 years
Message-ID: <199807041358.XAA23293@mimmon.mim.com.au>

Hello all,

Today is the 80th anniversary of the battle of Hamel.

Hamel is significant for Australians and for the USA too. It marked the
first time all five Australian divisions in France had fought together
as a single force, under an Australian commander (General John Monash),
the first time an Australian had commanded American troops, and probably
the first major battle that Australians and Americans fought together.
It was timed for 4 July specifically for the morale effect on the then
raw Americans and their families at home.

Today four Australian veterans of that battle are in France again, old
men of 98 years and older, two from this city (Brisbane), being awarded
Legion d'Honneur by the French. It's meant as an honour for them, and
all those who never survived that day, and maybe should be shared with
their trans Pacific comrades in arms. 

I for one, watch these old, old men and realise that my passion for the
weapons of their war would probably not be shared by them, but hope that
my admiration for them is some recompense. And I wish the decendants of
their Yankee comrades of all those years past a happy celebration of
their national day

Shane

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:28:13 +0200
From: Pedro e Francisca Soares <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
To: "'ww1 modeling list'" <wwi>
Subject: 4 July
Message-ID: <01BDA75A.25B5AB40@fei1-p10.telepac.pt>

Happy today for all of you Yankees out there.

Um abraco

Pedro



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:46:32 -0400
From: "Jim Lyzun" <aero@baynet.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Off subject but worth the time.
Message-ID: <359E4048.3880@baynet.net>

Charles Duckworth wrote:
> 
> Lee, thanks for taking the time to put together the history of the signers
> of the Declaration of Independence.  'Very' worthwhile reading.


I agree.
As a Canadian I knew little of this era of American history and it was
intriguing to say the least.

Jim L

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:53:16 -0400
From: "Jim Lyzun" <aero@baynet.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <359E41DC.101E@baynet.net>

At 73 years old
> any thanks is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Lee
> 

Lee,
It must give you tremendous pride to know you were part of so much
history.

Jim L

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:58:39 -0400
From: "Mike Muth" <bucky@ptd.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <wwi>
Subject: July 4
Message-ID: <005901bda764$9c9635e0$4106bacc@bucky>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    Probably my favorite holiday...my daughter was born on July 4, 1985. =
Like many I grew up with the W.W.II Vets being the fathers of my =
friends, neighbors, etc.  It wasn't until the last 8 years or so, when =
the papers and TV started doing the 50th anniversary stories about =
W.W.II events that it started to dawn on me that a lot of these =
participants in the great crusade were no longer with us. What bullets =
could not accomplish, time was. Still it seems so trivial to say "thank =
you" for all they risked and all the preserved. I wish I had better =
words....Thanks.
Mike Muth
nb: Belgian Nieuport 1/48 (Back to hole drilling and thread rigging...I =
got beat by the      ceramic wire again!
       W.29 1/72 Elbow is feeling better for  sanding has resumed...I =
also bought an electric hand geld mini-sander that seems to work OK.
nu: Probably Baracca's SPAD....Still no pictures found. Hard to imagine
nl: Best of the Flying Burrito Brothers. I forgot how great Graham =
Parsons was.

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my favorite holiday...my daughter was born on July 4, 1985. Like many I =
grew up=20
with the W.W.II Vets being the fathers of my friends, neighbors, =
etc.&nbsp; It=20
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doing the=20
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me that=20
a lot of these participants in the great crusade were no longer with us. =
What=20
bullets could not accomplish, time was. Still it seems so trivial to say =

&quot;thank you&quot; for all they risked and all the preserved. I wish =
I had=20
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feeling=20
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mini-sander that seems to work OK.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:28:14 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: July 4
Message-ID: <7ccc6a5a.359e6630@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-07-04 11:59:34 EDT, you write:

<< .my daughter was born on July 4, 1985. >>

Pretty neat!

<< Like many I grew up with the W.W.II Vets being the fathers of my =
 friends, neighbors, etc............ What bullets  could not accomplish, time
was. Still it seems so trivial to say "thank =
 you" for all they risked and all the preserved. I wish I had better =
 words....Thanks.
 Mike Muth>>

That's my chilhood also- sittin' around on summer evenings, listening to my
old man and my uncles, and the Brit Lancaster gunner who lived down the street
talk about "stuff".One uncle who was in several Pacific campaigns, didn't much
care for the fireworks on July 4th- they made him jumpy. If grandpa was out
visiting from back east, he'd toss in a tale or two about the trenches in WW
I. They were all in their  late 30s-early 40s.( 'cept grandpa- he was in his
60s) It's still difficult not to think of them in this way. My dad is still
around, in his late 70s, and hopping around nicely. He keeps saying he'd like
one more ride in airplane before he goes. He stepped out of a B-25 in New
Mexico in November 1945, rode a train home, and hasn't been in an airplane
since.

<<nl: Best of the Flying Burrito Brothers. I forgot how great Graham =
 Parsons was.>>

Try to get hold of the first album- not a bum song on it!
Robert K.
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 11:39:11 -0700
From: Nigel Rayner <raynerz@mindspring.com>
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980704113911.006da908@pop.mindspring.com>

Lee,

You have my heartfelt thanks for the contribution you and the rest of your
generation made to keeping the world free. It must sometimes seem that
subsequent generations are ungrateful, but as my father (naval officer on
MTBs in English Channel) always said, he'd never want us to go through what
they had to. Sentiments echoed by my mother (bombed many times) and
grandparents (one g'father wounded at Gallipoli, one wounded on the Western
Front). One of the serious sides to our hobby is to keep alive in the
public consciousness the immense impact and importance of these conflicts.

So happy independence day and be very proud of the service you've given to
us all. (and the same goes to any other vets on the list - I know I
couldn't do what you've done).

Regards,

Nigel

At 73 years old
any thanks is greatly appreciated.

Lee



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:25:00 -0600
From: "S.M.Sundberg" <sms@netins.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Nationals/Good Joe award
Message-ID: <359E8F99.78D@netins.net>

KarrArt@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-07-03 01:20:35 EDT, you write:
> 
> << There were
>  very nice collections of finely executed WWI fighters, in addition to a
>  very impressive scratchbuilt 1/48 Taube and 1/24 Ninack. I don't know
>  who the maniacs were that built them, but I can only hope to be as mad
>  some day. >>
> 
> I've heard now that the Ninack was by John Alcorn- the guy who put together
> the book of amazing scratch builts a few years ago. I think it was called
> something like  Scratchbuilt!
> Robert K.

I just recently purchased the "Scratchbuilt" book.  The Nineack is shown
in the book.  Amazing.  Theirs is a hobby with which I am not familiar
(to paraphase Bobby Jones).

Steve S.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:28:12 -0300
From: "Alexandre de C. Triffoni" <atcampos@nutecnet.com.br>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Happy day
Message-ID: <199807041927.QAA29397@srv1-cas.cas.nutecnet.com.br>

  To all Americans in this list :

  Have a Fourth of July from Brazil ! No one could judge the glorious past
you have for your fighting for our freedom ! I respect this and I'm proud
to be part of this list which has lots of heroes who spent their lives for
our freedom nowadays ! Our Brazilian soldiers who fought against the Nazis
in the WW II in Italy under General Mark Clark's Fifth Army think like me.
I was in Europe once and I could see the admiration they have for your
young braves in WW I and WW II.

  Best regards,


  Alexandre - atcampos@nutecnet.com.br 

 
> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:19:19 -0400 "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
> writes:
> >Michel LEFORT wrote:
> >
> >> Happy independance day to all the u.s. members of this list from
> >> Belgium.
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michel Lefort <ipms.belgium@ping.be> - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium
> >> IPMS Belgium Treasurer & Foreign Liaison Officer (member F012)
> >> MAFVA member #6708
> >> http://www.ping.be/ipms-belgium
> >> Plastic Modelling is holding History in your Hand
> >
> >Michel,Having been a member of the 99th Infantry Division during the
> >Battle of the Bulge and being welcomed by the Belgian people of
> >Krinkelt, Eupen, Elsenborn, Rocherath, Butgenbach and many other 
> >towns,
> >I know personally that you are sincere in your regards for our 4th of
> >July as are the vast majority of Belgians.  Thank you for saying so on
> >the list.  Lee J Mensinger, H Company, 395 Infantry Regimental Combat
> >Team, 99th Division.
> >
> >Ernest, you are a pain in the ass.
> >
> >
> >
> Lee did you spend time in the Hurtgen forest prior to the bulge? Thank
> you sir for your service to this country, God bless you. I only wish that
> the people in Washington today had the same character and moral fiber
> that the young men had in your day.                                      
>                                                                          
>               Scott
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 1098
**********************