WWI Digest 1096 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by KarrArt@aol.com 2) Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) by "Rob." 3) Re: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by lothar@televar.com (mark) 4) Re: Canada Day ! ! ! by lothar@televar.com (mark) 5) Re: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by Mike Fletcher 6) Re: Finding books by "Tom Werner Hansen" 7) Re: Finding books by "Sandy Adam" 8) small Nie aficionados by "Sandy Adam" 9) Rotary Differences (table enclosed) by Graham Nash 10) Kinda off topic by mbittner@juno.com 11) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Eduard_Nieuport_17C.1=28LeRh=F4ne_layout=29?= by "Tom Werner Hansen" 12) Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by infosilver@czechia.com 13) RE: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 14) Re: Finding books by "Tom Werner Hansen" 15) rear ornaments wasRe: _Eduard_Nieuport_17C.1(LeRhône_layout) by KarrArt@aol.com 16) Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) by KarrArt@aol.com 17) Re: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/ by KarrArt@aol.com 18) Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) by Graham Nash 19) Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) by Mike Fletcher 20) Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by Mike Fletcher 21) RE: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 22) Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) by "Tom Werner Hansen" 23) RE: SMER Kits by "Reid Sweatman" 24) Attn Nigel Rayner by Bob Pearson 25) Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by "Mike Muth" 26) Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) by Zulis@aol.com 27) Copper State Models List by Mike Dicianna 28) Re: Copper State Models List by Nigel Rayner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:03:16 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-02 01:58:23 EDT, you write: << what country was the one with the yellow and blue markings? It is a new one on me. >> We wouldn't be speaking of the land of meatballs, massage and herring would we? Robert K.( watching a native of said land put away the dishes) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:13:49 +0000 From: "Rob." To: wwi Subject: Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) Message-ID: <199807020610.CAA25035@newman.concentric.net> >>I don't have the particulars in front of me, but the main visual >>differences modelers should look at is whether the pipes are on the >>back or front of the engine, and where and how many push rods. >>in front. I think that this layout is generally the same for each make, regardless of model . >>I think the 80hp LeRhone has the pipes in front, with one rod, also >>in front. The 110hp version has the pipes in back. Not judging from the photos and contemporary drawings I have seen. Pushrods Inlet Pipes Gnome Monosoupape 1, front none* Le Rh=F4ne 1, front front Clerget 2, front back Bentley/Admiralty 2, front back** *inlet valve in piston crown, so no pipes **based on the Clerget design, but with extensive use of aluminum, higher power, and better reliability Rob To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1. Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:24:37 -0700 (PDT) From: lothar@televar.com (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <199807020724.AAA13657@concord.televar.com> >In a message dated 98-07-02 01:58:23 EDT, you write: > ><< what country was the one with the yellow and blue markings? It is a new > one on me. >> > >We wouldn't be speaking of the land of meatballs, massage and herring would >we? >Robert K.( watching a native of said land put away the dishes) Yah sure, yah betcha.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:32:40 -0700 (PDT) From: lothar@televar.com (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Canada Day ! ! ! Message-ID: <199807020732.AAA14850@concord.televar.com> Bob states - >Greetings all, > >Just have to say . . .. > >Happy birthday Canada. . . .. . damn, I guess this means no mail today . >. . . . . . . > >Regards, > Bob Pearson > Prince Rupert, BC > Canada I heartily second that!! Happy birthday to the best damn country and people you could ever want to have next door! (well, except maybe for them Quebecois types, but that's way back East anyway....) - and that's **not** just the 12 pack of Molson talking, either...(hic!) Mark nl: Gordon Lightfoot, Bruce Cockburn, Neil Young, etc. etc..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:44:19 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <359B3A53.29F73E9C@mars.ark.com> could be...but my refernces show they were using the triple crown insignia at least at the end of the war and the blue looks really dark - maybe a one off? -- ___ ., |-\|^----! ; |--n--""*" @ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:12:45 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Finding books Message-ID: <199807020830.KAA23602@d1o211.telia.com> Charles I only need the last four of the Bruce Fighters books. So if anyone comes across these, let me know. Tom ---------- > From: Charles Hart > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Finding books > Date: 01. juli 1998 21:31 > > >Guys > >I just found the five volumes of Bruse's Fighters at USD 75 at the > >following > >http://www.abebooks.com/home/KLINDTBOOKS/ > >Boy'don't I wish I had 75 greenbacks to send for those. > >I don't know about the price, but the books sure are a find. > >I found other books by Bruce at: > >http://www.abebooks.com > > > >Some are expensive as heck, but if you need something, I guess you just > >need it. > > > >Tom > > This is a pretty steep price for these. I just bought 4 of the five > for US$32.00 plus postage. These aren't that difficult to find. > > Charles > > hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:30:21 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Finding books Message-ID: <199807020830.JAA28852@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Guys > I just found the five volumes of Bruse's Fighters at USD 75 at the > following Tom, this is a daft price! These volumes are regularly available in UK at 5-6pounds each. I know of one bookshop with vols I-III at 10pounds for all three (no ductcovers). Please don't pay 75 USD for'em - it just lets the book sharks know they can ask whatever they want. Sandy PS well done for beating Brasil (pity you drew with Scotland though!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:39:05 -0700 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: small Nie aficionados Message-ID: <199807020838.JAA28978@beryl.sol.co.uk> Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I tend to skim the 1/72 releases) but, if not, the munchkinettepiccolissimos may like to look at the HR Models 1/72 resin Nie 16 on the Hannants New Arrivals page. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:08:51 +0100 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) Message-ID: <199807020909.FAA23802@egate2.citicorp.com> Summarizing then, we have the following table (I think...) Le Rhone: MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 9C 80 hp 664.29 cid 4.8/1 1,front front ? ? 11C 100 hp 811.91 cid 4.8/1? 1,front front 9Ja 110 hp ? ? 1,front front 336 lb 2.56 9Jb 120 hp 919.71 cid 5.0/1 1,front front 9R 170-180 hp 970.38 cid 5.65/1* 39.64" 1,front front 9Z 60 hp 305.1 cid 1,front front *Aluminum pistons Clerget MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 7Z 85 hp 723.87 cid 4/1 2,front back 234 lb 2.85 110-hp 110 hp 930.69 cid 4/1 2,front back 9Z 121 hp 992.07 cid 4.36/1 2,front back 9B 130 hp* 992.07 cid 4/1** 2,front back 385 lb 2.876 9F 200-hp 1053.54 cid 6.3/1*** 2,front back 367 lb 3.00 9BF 146 hp 1066.14 cid 5.1/1** 2,front back 9J 100 hp 664.29 cid 5.1/1**** 2,front back 11EB 230 hp 1439.68 cid 5.2/1 43.25" 2,front back 863 lb 4.33 11G 265 hp***** 1439.68 cid 5.7/1 *153 hp with high-compression pistons. **Power at 1250 rpm. ***power at 1350 rpm ****aluminum cooling fins *****power at 1400 rpm, redline 1500 rpm Gnome Monosoupape MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 7A 80 hp 609.21 cid 35.3" 1,front None# 212 lb 3.26 9B2 100 hp 783.27 cid 37.4" 1,front None# 9N 165 hp 970.38 cid 1,front None# 320 lb 2.08 #inlet valve in piston crown, so no pipes Bentley/Admiralty MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p BR1 158 hp* 2,front back*** 408 lb 2.58 BR2 230 hp** 2,front back*** 498 lb 2.165 *Power at 1250 rpm. **Power at 1300 rpm. ***based on the Clerget design, but with extensive use of aluminum, higher power, and better reliability Oberursel MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 7-cylinder (Gnome pattern) U.O 80 hp 1,front None# 9-cylinder (Gnome pattern) U.I 100 hp 1,front None# 9-cylinder (Le Rhone pattern) UR.II 110 hp 1,front front 14-cylinder (Gnome pattern) U.III 160 hp Goebel MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 11-cylinder Goe.IIIa 200 hp Siemens-Halske MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 11-cylinder Sh.IIIa 205 hp 460 lb 2.24 Questions --------- Is the power rating for the LeRhone 9Z correct? Is there a model number for the Clerget 110 hp? I remember that either the Clerget 9B (or 9Z) was a dog but the 9Z (or 9B) was ok. What was the effective difference and why? I think that there were two Le Rhone 9J (the 'a' and the 'b') of which the 9a powered the Nie 16, and made it nose-heavy and hence less 'handy'. I have added Dry Weight, and Dry Weight per h.p to the table. Presumably a high weight to hp ratio is not a 'good' thing. Can anyone fill in the gaps? What other engines am I missing? Aircraft types that used each engine. Impressions are that the Le Rhone 9C was a 'sweet' engine, but the Clerget 9Z/9B had a 'fiery' temperament (which I don't think is a reference to un-ignited petrol, catching upon blipping, but I might be wrong). Why is that? Does anyone else feel a FAQ coming on? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:50:07 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Kinda off topic Message-ID: <19980702.045009.-72243.5.mbittner@juno.com> Since having traded Kevin for the Ford Tc, does anyone have any electronic info on the armored car? I will be able to borrow Ken's photocopied book, but was looking for some web site or something. TIA! Matt Bittner nb: MoS Type I; Nie.16; Ford Tc nl _don't cry 'til you get to the car_, Mulberry Lane _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:44:12 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Eduard_Nieuport_17C.1=28LeRh=F4ne_layout=29?= Message-ID: <199807021013.MAA14288@d1o211.telia.com> Rob Check your Jane's again. My reprint of the 1919 shows on page 286 and 287 an engine with the rods and pipes on the rear side. Maybe they put it ass-forwards to build a pusher? 8-) Tom ---------- > From: Rob. > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Eduard Nieuport 17C.1(LeRh=F4ne layout) > Date: 02. juli 1998 07:57 >=20 > I've seen drawings both ways. But all photos and contemporary=20 > drawings that I have seen show the inlet pipes and push rods at the=20 > front on the Le Rh=3DF4nes.=20 >=20 > I'll give my sources since we seem to be getting somewhat=20 > contentiously pedantic lately: photocopies of Janes (1917 and 1919 if=20 > memory serves) and Glen Engel's mammoth Airplane Engine Encyclopedia,=20 > ca. 1919. The latter covers almost everything because it is late=20 > enough for all the WW1 engines to have come out and for the wartime=20 > censorship to be over, yet still close to the period. > Rob > > To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1. >=20 > Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 98 13:10:47 PDT From: infosilver@czechia.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:00:04 -0400 Mike Fletcher wrote: >what country was the one with the yellow and blue markings? It is a new >one on me. >-- > ___ ., > |-\|^----! ; > |--n--""*" > @ > It's Ukraine, who fought for its independence from Russia (or Poland?) then. Modern Ukrainian air force adopted the same colours recently AFAIK. Cheers! Ivan Subrt "The air is our sea." Czech proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:38:42 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <01BDA59D.33B6ABE0.panz-meador@vsti.com> ukraine was fighting the reds to maintain independence established by the treaty of brest-litovsk. during the russian civil was fighting spread across the ukraine, and as well, there were multiple governments and air forces. the more publicized marking (also blue and yellow) featured a square (blue) with a superimposed yellow stylized trident. according to press releases, this insignia will grace toko's aviatik (berg) d.i. phillip -----Original Message----- From: infosilver@czechia.com [SMTP:infosilver@czechia.com] Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:00:04 -0400 Mike Fletcher wrote: >what country was the one with the yellow and blue markings? It is a new >one on me. >-- > ___ ., > |-\|^----! ; > |--n--""*" > @ > It's Ukraine, who fought for its independence from Russia (or Poland?) then. Modern Ukrainian air force adopted the same colours recently AFAIK. Cheers! Ivan Subrt "The air is our sea." Czech proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:53:32 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Finding books Message-ID: <199807021505.RAA13722@d1o211.telia.com> Sandy Thanks for advice. I was hoping the 75 USD was more than I would have to pay. I have volume one, just need the other four. It didn't help much to beat Brazil, except it made everybody in Norway feel good. We lost to the Italians, just like we did four years ago. Anyway, life goes on. Too bad the Argentinians won the rematch of Falklands war, I sort of wanted the English to win, they fought very bravely, even if one is happy that some of the English supporters are out of the games. Tom ---------- > From: Sandy Adam > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Finding books > Date: 02. juli 1998 10:35 > > > > > Guys > > I just found the five volumes of Bruse's Fighters at USD 75 at the > > following > Tom, this is a daft price! These volumes are regularly available in UK at > 5-6pounds each. > I know of one bookshop with vols I-III at 10pounds for all three (no > ductcovers). > Please don't pay 75 USD for'em - it just lets the book sharks know they can > ask whatever they want. > Sandy > PS well done for beating Brasil (pity you drew with Scotland though!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:06:11 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: rear ornaments wasRe: _Eduard_Nieuport_17C.1(LeRhône_layout) Message-ID: <5b57a535.359baff4@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-02 08:15:21 EDT, you write: << Rob Check your Jane's again. My reprint of the 1919 shows on page 286 and 287 an engine with the rods and pipes on the rear side. Maybe they put it ass-forwards to build a pusher? 8-) Tom >> Last night I went through a bunch of stuff- Bruce's Nieuport book, various DataFiles, etc., and there were a lot of LeRhones out there with their ornaments mounted on the rear. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:06:08 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) Message-ID: <855eba03.359baff1@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-02 05:10:16 EDT, you write: << Le Rhone: MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p 9C 80 hp 664.29 cid 4.8/1 1,front front ? ? 11C 100 hp 811.91 cid 4.8/1? 1,front front 9Ja 110 hp ? ? 1,front front 336 lb 2.56 9Jb 120 hp 919.71 cid 5.0/1 1,front front 9R 170-180 hp 970.38 cid 5.65/1* 39.64" 1,front front 9Z 60 hp 305.1 cid 1,front front >> It's not difficult at all to find photos of LeRhones sporting rear mounted induction pipes, and this chart doesn't reflect this. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:06:07 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: meatballs, massage and herring wasRe: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/ Message-ID: <105ff5b5.359baff3@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-02 03:49:00 EDT, you write: << could be...but my refernces show they were using the triple crown insignia at least at the end of the war and the blue looks really dark - maybe a one off? -- >> Initially just the crowns in black, with a version of the blue and yellow flag painted on the tail. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:22:35 +0100 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) Message-ID: <199807021622.MAA26633@egate2.citicorp.com> KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-02 05:10:16 EDT, you write: > > << > Le Rhone: > MODEL OUTPUT DISPLACEMENT COMP DIAMETER PUSHRODS INLET-PIPE > DRY WGHT WGHT/h.p > 9C 80 hp 664.29 cid 4.8/1 1,front front > ? ? > 11C 100 hp 811.91 cid 4.8/1? 1,front front > 9Ja 110 hp ? ? 1,front front > 336 lb 2.56 > 9Jb 120 hp 919.71 cid 5.0/1 1,front front > 9R 170-180 hp 970.38 cid 5.65/1* 39.64" 1,front front > 9Z 60 hp 305.1 cid 1,front front > >> > > It's not difficult at all to find photos of LeRhones sporting rear mounted > induction pipes, and this chart doesn't reflect this. > Robert K. Could this in fact be a visible difference between a 9C/9Ja/9Jb/9R or 9Z's do you think? If so, do we know which is which? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:32:44 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) Message-ID: <359BD24C.CEF9396A@mars.ark.com> I will post pictures of 80 and 110 LeRhones at mars.ark.com/~mdf/nieuport.html the 110 & 120 hp versions had all the rods and tubes on the back the 80 and 90hp versions had them on the front - 1919 publications notwithsatnding > Is the power rating for the LeRhone 9Z correct? Pre-war LeRhone Models type hp weight 7B - 60 80kg 9C - 80 110 14D - 120 140 18E - 160 170kg no info on 9Z > Is there a model number for the Clerget 110 hp? 9Z was 110hp, 9B was 130hp > I remember that either the Clerget 9B (or 9Z) was a dog but the 9Z (or > 9B) was ok. What was the effective difference and why? 9Z was a dog because it was heavier than 110 LeRhone and the 110hp was nominal - actual attained horsepower in rfc tests was slightly lower then for the 110 LeRhone and power dropped off with altitude more for the Clerget. Fuel and Oil consumption were both higher for the Clerget meaning still more weight. For a three hour sortie the 110 Clerget would be 82.99 lbs heavier and the 130 65.35 lbs heavier - there goes either all the ammunition or the performance! > I think that there were two Le Rhone 9J (the 'a' and the 'b') of which > the 9a powered the Nie 16, and made it nose-heavy and hence less > 'handy'. I have added Dry Weight, and Dry Weight per h.p to the table. Increases to the forward fuselage structure wouldn't have helped anything either. > Presumably a high weight to hp ratio is not a 'good' thing. Can anyone > fill in the gaps? > What other engines am I missing? There were lots of minor experimental engines that didn't get much use > Aircraft types that used each engine. Name the type and I can probably find most of the engines used. > > Impressions are that the Le Rhone 9C was a 'sweet' engine, but the > Clerget 9Z/9B had a 'fiery' temperament (which I don't think is a > reference to un-ignited petrol, catching upon blipping, but I might be > wrong). Why is that? > The Gnome 150 in the Nieuport 28 had a problem with improperly annealed copper fuel lines which suffered from cracking...pouring the hot fuel onto the engine with the expected results. I am including only about half the specs I have for each engine from the spec sheets and I dont seem to have the sheet for the 120 or 80hp LeRhones Type |Bore |Stroke|Comp Rat |Piston Area|Nom HP|Normal HP|Nom@10000ft|Normal MEP@rpm|Torque(lb-ft)|Tot.Dry Weight|Fuel Use |Oil Use LeRhone 9J |112mm|170mm |4.83:1 |15.27 sq in|110 |131@1300 |95.9 |86.7@1300 |530 |336 lbs |78.07 |12.3 Clerget 9Z |120mm|160mm |4.36:1 |17.5 sq in |110 |122 |89.3 |77.7@- |513 |367 lbs |96.4lb/hr|11.3lb/hr Clerget 9B |120mm|160mm |4.56:1 |17.5 sq in |130 |134 |98 |84.5@1250 |563 |385 lbs |78.4lb/hr|17.42lb/hr Clerget 9BF |120mm|172mm |2 types |17.5 sq in |140 |148 |108 |87.7@1250 |622 |394 lbs |81.4 |17.76 Clerget 11EB|120mm|190mm |5.1:1 |17.5 sq in |200 |197@1300 |144 |52.3@1300 |796 |512 lbs |141.8 |28.7 Gnome 9B-2 |110mm|150mm |- |- |100 |100@1200 |- |- |- |272 lbs |- |- Gnome 9N |115mm|170mm |5.2:1 |16.11 sq in|150 |154@1300 |112.7 |96.7@1300 |622 |320 lbs |126.28 |16.9 Hispano 8? |120mm|130mm |4.7\5.3:1|17.5 sq in |200 |208 |152\161 |115/121@2000 |546/548 |515 lbs |112/118.8|13.9/14.7 Mike Fletcher -- ___ ., |-\|^----! ; |--n--""*" @ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:40:34 -0700 From: Mike Fletcher To: wwi Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <359BD422.248726FC@mars.ark.com> Have you seen any photos of these machines or know where I could find them? (I have ukrainian ancestry and am interested in that angle also) -- ___ ., |-\|^----! ; |--n--""*" @ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:55:22 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <01BDA5C1.0F75EE20.panz-meador@vsti.com> two sources would be insignia magazine (issue no. 3-4) dealing with russian civil war air foces, and the small air forces observer (SAFO) published by the small air forces clearing house (SAFCH). i've got both (the latter is unfortunately packed away, but depicts, for example, a gotha gl.viii in UAF insignia) and you're welcome to a copy if you'd like. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Mike Fletcher [SMTP:mdf@mars.ark.com] Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 1:47 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Have you seen any photos of these machines or know where I could find them? (I have ukrainian ancestry and am interested in that angle also) -- ___ ., |-\|^----! ; |--n--""*" @ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:47:18 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) Message-ID: <199807021855.UAA29970@d1o211.telia.com> FWIW The caption to the drawings in Jane's describes it as a Type J-110 h.p.. This one has the ornaments to the rear. Tom ---------- > From: Graham Nash > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Rotary Differences (table enclosed) > Date: 02. juli 1998 18:25 > > > > It's not difficult at all to find photos of LeRhones sporting rear mounted > > induction pipes, and this chart doesn't reflect this. > > Robert K. > > Could this in fact be a visible difference between a 9C/9Ja/9Jb/9R or > 9Z's do you think? > > If so, do we know which is which? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:12:42 -0700 From: "Reid Sweatman" To: Subject: RE: SMER Kits Message-ID: <001401bda5f5$c4ca3a40$0a9c639b@Stranger.utah.edu> > Mmm yeas, that seems true and not true. Some of the moulds are 40 years > old, and the companies that made them are long gone, as are a few > generations in between. But the case of the Eduard kit moulded by SMER, > or others by Flashback, are really a case of Eduard getting something > for their investment in the old style moulds, without actually having > their own name on them. This is why the W.29 will never be released by > them - it doesn't use the LTM moulding process and if released under > their own name would cause a storm of whining on rec.models.scale and > elsewhere about slipping standards - and might put the fear in peoples > minds that later kits might not be as good as, say, the Albatros D.V. > > Better (for them) they maintain a new higher standard, and license the > moulds to someone else (or even mould them, themselves) and have someone > else package and market them. Okay, makes sense. I just didn't know much about companies located in ex-iron-curtain countries. I was pleasantly surprised a couple of years back when I acquired my first Eduard photoetch set; I'd been afraid they wouldn't be as good as the English and American ones, and in fact, they were better. Reid Sweatman Programmer/Audio Engineer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:26:17 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Attn Nigel Rayner Message-ID: <21261705451154@KAIEN.COM> Nigel, Your mail is bouncing again. Your AM contribution arrived today Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:31:00 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <002a01bda609$17b81b60$7706bacc@bucky> Just a guess, but I'd say Sweden. Mike Muth -----Original Message----- From: Mike Fletcher To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, July 02, 1998 1:59 AM Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) >what country was the one with the yellow and blue markings? It is a new >one on me. >-- > ___ ., > |-\|^----! ; > |--n--""*" > @ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:51:10 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Headrest (was Toko 1/72 Nieuport 11/16) Message-ID: <38531ad1.359c0edf@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-02 14:45:15 EDT, Mike wrote: << Have you seen any photos of these machines or know where I could find them? (I have ukrainian ancestry and am interested in that angle also) -- >> You might also be interested in the new ICM Ilya Murometz, which has the Ukrainian trident markings as one of the options for this plane. Big decals for a big plane. Might even be usable on a small 1/48 scale model...... :-) Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 20:15:58 +0000 From: Mike Dicianna To: wwi Subject: Copper State Models List Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980702201558.00673e88@proaxis.com> I received the Copper State Models pricelists in the snail mail today...some interesting stuff available. The list a website (could not get it to come up) www.amug.org/~copperst/ If anyone would like a copy of this listing, let me know and I will scan one to you.... On the fall release list were some interesting subjects...Albatros W4, Pfalz DR.1 (great companion to the new Eduard kit- which I want!)and a SE5a. Listed as resin, wht mel, decals and PE kits....COOOOOL!!!! MikeDC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 20:36:49 -0700 From: Nigel Rayner To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Copper State Models List Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980702203649.006e0230@pop.mindspring.com> It looks like the "tilde" character in the URL is throwing you off (in their URL it is slightly different). Search on "copper state models" in yahoo and it'll be the first on the list. Good web site, interesting photos. Sorry all about Bob's emails to me bouncing. Took a quick visit to the IPMS nationals today (as I am on vacation for father in laws visit - an ex-tank man, so I dragged him along). A bit too early to go, many gaps on the exhibit tables and not much WW1 stuff yet. An interesting Taube in 1/48 with tensioners modelled in the rigging - this looked very impressive to me (amazing modelling), but I don't know what the more experienced on the list would say about the scale representation. Able to find some WW1 stuff among the vendors. Plenty of books, but not that many kits (excluding Eduard/Glencoe), esp minissimus 1/72 scale. Reheat models were there (with BROAD Wiltshire accents, so made me feel at home!), they've got some interesting "vintage" cockpit accessories in addition to their bezels - various paraphenalia that aren't in the Tom's Modelworks p/e. I'd be interested to hear other comments, esp from those attending Fri/Sat. Regards, Nigel PS Belated happy b'day Canada (good to see some still in the Commonwealth), advance happy b'day USA (a bit grudgingly - how did we ever lose that one?) PPS Don't even mention the football (sorry, soccer). Let's just say we won the important one. At 23:19 02/07/98 -0400, Mike Dicianna wrote: >I received the Copper State Models pricelists in the snail mail today...some >interesting stuff available. The list a website (could not get it to come up) >www.amug.org/~copperst/ > >If anyone would like a copy of this listing, let me know and I will scan one >to you.... > >On the fall release list were some interesting subjects...Albatros W4, Pfalz >DR.1 (great companion to the new Eduard kit- which I want!)and a SE5a. Listed >as resin, wht mel, decals and PE kits....COOOOOL!!!! > >MikeDC > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1096 **********************