WWI Digest 1034 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Breguet 14A2 by mbittner@juno.com 2) Re: Are we filling too many seams? by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 3) Flares by perrysm@juno.com 4) Slightly off-topic - Fairey IIID by Pedro e Francisca Soares 5) Seams by "Charles Duckworth" 6) Woodman articles on German national markings. by "Tom Werner Hansen" 7) Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. by Bob Pearson 8) Re: Woodman articles by Charles Hart 9) Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. by "John Glaser" 10) Re: Seams by KarrArt 11) Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. by KarrArt 12) Re: Off Topic: Ballard Finds Yorktown by KarrArt 13) Re: convention-was Are we filling too many seams? by KarrArt 14) Windsock 14/3 by "Sandy Adam" 15) Warspite by "Sandy Adam" 16) Re: Warspite by Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton 17) the silence by Ernest Thomas 18) Re: the silence - plus combat reports by Zulis 19) silence in U.S.A. by "Charles Duckworth" 20) Re: the silence - plus combat reports by Ernest Thomas 21) Re: silence in U.S.A. by Ernest Thomas 22) Re: the silence - plus combat reports by Zulis 23) Re: the silence - plus combat reports by Ernest Thomas 24) Re: Breguet 14A2 by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 25) Re: the silence - plus combat reports by KarrArt 26) Re: the silence - plus combat reports by Ernest Thomas 27) Re: Woodman articles by "Tom Werner Hansen" 28) Re: Warspite by "Sandy Adam" 29) Re: Aeroclub Fe2B by "Sandy Adam" 30) Ludendorf's War Memories by "Sandy Adam" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:32:00 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Breguet 14A2 Message-ID: <19980523.093200.4534.0.mbittner@juno.com> Does anybody know if there was/is a kit of the Breguet 14A2? Media is not important. (FWIW, the Pegasus kit is the 14B2) Matt Bittner nb: Temske (I'm now convinced that's how it's spelled) Morane-Saulnier Type I (currently re-adding the rib tapes on the wings - for those who are building the Type N and/or Type I, the rib "tapes" are different between the N and I/V - the I/V are more like "tapes", while the "N" looks like the ribs sticking through) np: My two year old _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:55:14 -0400 From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Are we filling too many seams? Message-ID: <199805231455.KAA13118@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 06:02 PM 5/21/98 -0400, Bill Bacon wrote: >While at the Champlin Museum after the OTF Seminar, it passed through my >rather dense skull, that there are some seams which do not need >filling. Bill How come we didn't talk about this in AZ???? I had a similar thought when I was looking at the way the Nieuport Tailplane didn't smoothly mesh with the fuselage. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:43:24 -0400 From: perrysm@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Flares Message-ID: <19980523.114324.8878.0.perrysm@juno.com> Does anyone know if the signal flares carried by German aircraft were of different colors and hence the cartridges color coded? Steven Perry perrysm@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:59:09 +0200 From: Pedro e Francisca Soares To: "'ww1 modeling list'" Subject: Slightly off-topic - Fairey IIID Message-ID: <01BD866C.1CB11840@fei1-p3.telepac.pt> Guys, Anyone knows anything about the Fairey IIID kit by Esoteric? Does it have floats or is it the wheeled version? Any info would be most welcome. TIA Um abraco Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:11:16 -0500 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: Subject: Seams Message-ID: <199805231616.LAA10302@mail.primary.net> Was reading 'High Adventure' last night and came across a photo on page 33 of Cobby standing in front of a Camel, there is about a 4" long seam that one could probably put a finger through at the back of the top wing where the center section and outer wing panel meet. I really never noticed detail this in photos until this thread started - it's sort of like discovering the 'washout' on the top wings of some of the German and AH aircraft - once you discover it on one a/c photo, it's on about everything you look at! Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:31:27 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Woodman articles on German national markings. Message-ID: <199805231831.UAA23887@d1o211.telia.com> Greetings all I have just scanned the text for a series of six articles that Harry Woodman wrote for Airfix magazine in 1970something. I'm posting the first one as a sample. Since it takes up a bit of bandwidth, I do so with hesitation. If posting it like this is a bad idea= , please advice, otherwise I'll post the remaining five over the nex few days.=20 I'm working on a version with scans of the illustrations as well, when th= at is done, I'll send them privately to whoever wants them. I would like to draw your attention to part 5 which is an excellent summa= ry of the German serial number system. Tom ................................... German National markings 1914-1918 First part of this new series by aviation enthusiast and modeller Harry Woodman OVER THE LAST twenty years or so a great deal information about the corre= ct markings and colouration of German First World War aircraft has been carefully and patiently researched by a number of enthusiasts. Their findings have been published in various periodicals and especially in the journaIs of the various historical societies. In consequence the writer acknowledges this work and this series consists mainly of a digest of thi= s research put into a convenient form for the benefit of modellers and especally those younger members of the fraternity to whom the information may be new. Information on this subject has been obtained from many sources such as official reports, copies of factory instructions, personal notes and memoirs and many other fragments carefully culled from files in various national archives. The whole picture can never be completed although the existing information is being constantly added to, and in consequence one should never be adamant on the subject of aircraft markings and colour schemes in the First World War. Indeed, in the writer's own experience it is the person who has spent a great deal of time and effort in genuine research who is always careful to avoid being dogmatic. PART 1: Army aircraft, 1914 to mid-1916 GERMAN MILITARY AIRCRAFT carried national markings from the very first da= y of the war. Indeed some authorities have suggested that crosses were carried as early as 1913 but the writer has been unable to discover one photograph of a German machine with crosses where it has been definitely established that the picture was taken prior to August 1914. Before the war, German. military aircraft carried few markings, in the main they consisted of such items as a manufacturer's name and in some cases, numbers. However, certain aircraft took part in sporting or other similar activities and carried numbers for identification purposes. There are als= o a few photographs showing that some machines had a dark (probably black) spanwise stripe on the undersurface of thewings. Most of these pictures were taken in the period immediately prior to the outbreak of war and may have been identification marks for aircraft taking part in manoeuvres whi= ch they did for the first time in the Autumn of 1911. It is apparent that an order was issued (probably at the same time as the mobilization order in August 1914) to the effect that all military aircra= ft were to have the cross painted on upper and lower wing surfaces and rudders. In effect this meant that all aircraft for civil machines were either taken over, or in some cases were presented to the military. This instruction was taken very literally for in the case of biplanes, crosses were painted on the upper and lower surfaces of both wings and in the cas= e of certain 'Taube' aircraft which had split rudders, crosses were applied to both halves. Some machines carried crosses on the fuselage sides. The national symbol was the 'Eisernes Kreuz' or Iron Cross and because th= is symbol has frequently been incorrectly defined in the past it is well to discuss here its origin and form. The term 'Maltese Cross' is still often used despite all the information that has been published in recent years, and this term is quite incorrect. The 'Maltese Cross' has cleft arms and = in fact has eight points, being the badge of the St John's Ambulance Brigade. In 1813, during the war against Napoleon, the Prussian king Friedrich Wilhelm Ill founded one of the most famous of all military orders, the Order of the Iron Cross. in heraldic terms the shape of this cross is defined as a simple black cross 'formy', which is a cross with widening arms. The sides of the arms can be curved (as in the Iron Cross) or they can be straight. This type of cross can also be described as 'paty' (sometimes in the French form of pat=E9e), the difference between the two forms being negligible. In 1870, the Order of the Iron Cross was renewed and after the formation = of the German Empire in 1871 with the King of Prussia becoming the German Emperor the Iron Cross became a national symbol of Germany as well as Prussia. The Order was again renewed in 1914 and thus became the familiar symbol of the German Empire during the First World War. For simplification the cross will henceforth be referred to as the Iron Cross in this feature for that is the term which the Germans themselves used. Up until mid-1916 this cross differed widely not only in proportion but sometimes in shape. The greatest variation was seen during the first six monthsof the war when it was quite apparent that many crosses had been applied very hastily and with some confusion, although some machines had the correct proportions, presumably because the unit or factory which applied them had used the dimensions of the medal. Not only did the shape of the cross vary but the position on the aircraf= t also varied. In most cases it was painted as large as possible, sometimes taking up the entire wingtip. The cross often appeared painted on the fabric without any backing which made it difficult to see for many German aircraft of the period were covered with dark brown or grey fabric and so= me used a fabric overprinted with dots to give an overall grey colour. Eventually the practice of painting the cross on a white background becam= e more general, the background usually being an exact square, but there was some variation. By the end of 1915 and early 1916 some of the more extrem= e variations disappeared on front line aircraft at any rate.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:44:17 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. Message-ID: <18441737946599@KAIEN.COM> Tom Werner Hansen wrote . . > I have just scanned the text for a series of six articles that Harry > Woodman wrote for Airfix magazine in 1970something. > > I'm posting the first one as a sample. Since it takes up a bit of > bandwidth, I do so with hesitation. If posting it like this is a bad idea= > , > please advice, otherwise I'll post the remaining five over the nex few > days.=20 Tom, Post away, if we can waste bandwidth on various untopical subjects, than surely this is a much more valid use of the list. Regards, Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:01:48 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Woodman articles Message-ID: Tom, I think it would be useful to list the issues of Airfix Mag. that these scans are coming from. At least this would clear up any provenance issues and potential copyright problems. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu >Greetings all > >I have just scanned the text for a series of six articles that Harry >Woodman wrote for Airfix magazine in 1970something. > >I'm posting the first one as a sample. Since it takes up a bit of >bandwidth, I do so with hesitation. If posting it like this is a bad idea= >, >please advice, otherwise I'll post the remaining five over the nex few >days.=20 >I'm working on a version with scans of the illustrations as well, when th= >at >is done, I'll send them privately to whoever wants them. >I would like to draw your attention to part 5 which is an excellent summa= >ry >of the German serial number system. > >Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:09:32 -0500 From: "John Glaser" To: Subject: Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. Message-ID: <002c01bd867e$5253d930$c9026b83@johng-home> I agree whole-heartedly! - John -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. > >Tom Werner Hansen wrote . . > >> I have just scanned the text for a series of six articles that Harry >> Woodman wrote for Airfix magazine in 1970something. >> >> I'm posting the first one as a sample. Since it takes up a bit of >> bandwidth, I do so with hesitation. If posting it like this is a bad idea= >> , >> please advice, otherwise I'll post the remaining five over the nex few >> days.=20 > > >Tom, > >Post away, if we can waste bandwidth on various untopical subjects, than >surely this is a much more valid use of the list. > >Regards, > Bob Pearson > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:56:33 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Seams Message-ID: <44690b73.356729f2@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-23 12:17:23 EDT, you write: << really never noticed detail this in photos until this thread started - it's sort of like discovering the 'washout' on the top wings of some of the German and AH aircraft - once you discover it on one a/c photo, it's on about everything you look at! >> When I was a kid, I thought the trailing edge on the Halb CL II bottom wing was curved in the top view! But it was just extreme washout! Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:56:33 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Woodman articles on German national markings. Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-23 14:32:15 EDT, you write: << used a fabric overprinted with dots to give an overall grey colour>> I've run across mere mentions of this- but always just that- mere mentions.Anybody out there know anything else? Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:56:32 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Off Topic: Ballard Finds Yorktown Message-ID: <3d964df5.356729f1@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-23 05:00:33 EDT, you write: << "As an aside, it is a historical tragedy that the U.S. Navy did not deem fit to rescue the USS Enterprise from the scrap yard. If any WW II U.S. Navy ship deserved to be preserved after the war, it was the USS Enterprise." A crime against history as great as the wanton destruction of the USS Oregon or the scrapping of HMS Warspite. A historical artifact, once gone, is gone forever. Yours, James D. Gray >> Seeing the those photos of Enterprise being dismantled is sad. At least we've still got the U.S.S. Constitution here in the states, HMS Victory in Great Britain and a few scattered others. Last week in the local paper there was an article about USS Olympia rotting away as a derelict "tourist attraction"- how many gallons a day are leaking into her, how the pumps are over-burdoned etc. She's still in pretty good shape over all, for now, but time is catching up with her. Realizing of course that we can't save everything ( geez, what would we do with hundreds of B-17s?), it's still a crime that some of the most important historical objects, such as Enterprise, have been destroyed. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:56:30 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: convention-was Are we filling too many seams? Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-23 03:55:25 EDT, you write: << One thing which we determined from the start was that we'd try to make the new show a cross disciplinary affair, and instead of restricting it to the traditional static plastic modelling fraternity, chose to include the RC ship/aircraft/car guys, railroad modellers, toy soldier collectors, wargamers and so on. This gave us ....... the chance to swap ideas, materials and so on At last years show I know of RC aircraft modellers learning how to make a crash moulded canopy, of static aircraft modellers learning that the best place to buy bolts for that brass prop boss is the model railroad store, and plastic armour afficionados learning landscape/diorama techniques from the model RR guys.......... It seems Robert's milk crate had room for two - any one else want to join us? Getting crowded. Make way, make way, move to the rear.... Shane>> Great idea. Since discovering model RR shops, a whole new world has opened up for me. I think the association is good for all parties- diorama and armor guys are learning from the railroad people and they in turn have picked up ideas about miniature "reality" so railroad layouts are looking better . Despite my gripes about the standard Verlinden head look, a railcar done "Verlinden style" would be neat.There is also much to be learned from the flying model battalion and they can learn from the static plastic bunch. Strange that it's taken so long for all the folks who makes miniatures to realize that we're all in the same field. Robert K. ( found another milk crate if anyone wants to hop on) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:07:44 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Windsock 14/3 Message-ID: <199805232111.WAA25402@beryl.sol.co.uk> Seems a long time since 14/2, but latest Windsock fell through door this morning . Very full, interesting issue: Pics of unrestored Belgian Halb C.V in colour on covers, Villish Russian flyingboat article, plans and pics of the incredible Beardmore WB.IV, Jenny markings (dammit - just when I finish mine as an ambulance with guesswork stretcher area - along come pics of the real thing!!!!) and reviews of lots of goodies - CS Dornier D.I, Flashbacks, BM Walfisch and 1/72 Alb D.I, Dako S-XVI, Toko Snipe and trannies. But the humdinger for me is a picture of old Sachsenberg with his yellow & black diamond "Razor" - a la Eduard 1/72. You can't see too much of the plane because of the bunch of goons standing in front of it but you can see the diamond markings. Yee-hah - now I've just got to make black Superscale squares look like diamonds on a DML 1/48 kit! Also a previously unknown Jasta 6 machine in colour profile. Includes too a lot of half or quarter page detail snippets on various subjects. Oh yes - lists of new kits - all the usual reported before, from Blue Max, Pegasus, Aeroclub, Toko etc but also: 1/48 Tom's resin Halb D.II/III and Albatros C.XII. Copper State also claim to be making an Alb W4, HB W12 and Pfalz DrI as well as the Fok D.V, SE5, Halb Cl.IV, Nie 10 and Pfalz bipes we knew about. Enough to keep any of us going for another two months Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:45:34 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Warspite Message-ID: <199805232111.WAA25399@beryl.sol.co.uk> > A crime against history as great as the wanton destruction of the USS > Oregon or the scrapping of HMS Warspite. ....... I'm not sure of this but I thought Warspite sank off Cornwall after running aground (or hitting a mine or being torpedoed?) Seem to remember seeing a memorial along the coast somewhere there to all the Jack Tars that lost their lives. Sorry, James, if I'm wrong. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:06:24 -0700 From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton To: wwi Subject: Re: Warspite Message-ID: <35685390.6E4F@connectorsystems.co.nz> Sandy Adam wrote: > > > A crime against history as great as the wanton destruction of the > USS > > Oregon or the scrapping of HMS Warspite. ....... > > I'm not sure of this but I thought Warspite sank off Cornwall after running > aground (or hitting a mine or being torpedoed?) Seem to remember seeing a > memorial along the coast somewhere there to all the Jack Tars that lost > their lives. Ran aground off Cornwall after losing her tow on the way to the breakers - I wasn't aware that there were lives lost though She was scrapped where she lay in the end - the breakers came to her instead. Aidrian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:11:25 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: multiple recipients of list Subject: the silence Message-ID: <356781CD.32F3@bellsouth.net> Is there anybody out there? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:24:30 EDT From: Zulis To: wwi Subject: Re: the silence - plus combat reports Message-ID: <92749415.356784df@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-23 22:15:15 EDT, Ernest Thomas wrote: << Is there anybody out there? >> Thank you. I was beginning to think my system was down. Now I am convinced that our American cousins are all out enjoying their long weekend. :-) I came across a site today where they are selling original combat reports from WWI. Many of you have probably viewed these already but there is something about the keywords in this site that allowed it to elude three different search engines that I was using, so perhaps some of you have missed it as well. http://www.leisuregalleries.com/combatr.html Unfortunately, the scans are pretty blurry, but you can make out the general gist of some of the reports. Actually, I am not sure if the scans are actually blurry or it is my eyeballs still shaking after reading how much these reports are being sold for. Something a little different, Happy Memorial Day from north of the border, Dave Zulis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:00:11 -0500 From: "Charles Duckworth" To: Subject: silence in U.S.A. Message-ID: <199805240257.VAA03110@mail.primary.net> Typical Memorial Day long three day weekend - have family re-union in little town (300 population) in central Missouri which is always fun. Been reading High Adventure on Cobby don't know how I missed this neat book when it came out in 1981. Wife dragging me + kids to party on Monday for friend of her's moving out of town. Between cutting grass, daughter's softball game and working on a car finally completed Eduard Pup after 3-4 years. Only needed Pegasus serial number decals to complete and homemade decals for presentation a/c. Happy Memorial day to everyone! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:04:05 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: the silence - plus combat reports Message-ID: <35678E25.24EF@bellsouth.net> Dave, Thanks for the link. I haven't seen those. They're neat, but I think some of those prices are a bit out of line. I only paid $120.00 for a really nice 15th century manuscript leaf. granted, it's only a biblical work, therefore, not really a one of a kind, but still a lovely, 500 year old, hand written page with gold embossed initials and elaborate red and blue pen work. Oh well? So what are you building right now? E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:06:14 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: silence in U.S.A. Message-ID: <35678EA6.6EE@bellsouth.net> Charles Duckworth wrote: > > Typical Memorial Day long three day weekend - have family re-union in > little town (300 population) in central Missouri which is always fun. Been > reading High Adventure on Cobby don't know how I missed this neat book when > it came out in 1981. Wife dragging me + kids to party on Monday for friend > of her's moving out of town. Between cutting grass, daughter's softball > game and working on a car finally completed Eduard Pup after 3-4 years. > Only needed Pegasus serial number decals to complete and homemade decals > for presentation a/c. > > Happy Memorial day to everyone! Sounds like the American Dream. Happy Memorial Day. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 23:45:55 EDT From: Zulis To: wwi Subject: Re: the silence - plus combat reports Message-ID: <6c3948b.356797f4@aol.com> Hi Ernest; Yes... those prices are certainly outside of my snack bracket... and this stuff is only about eighty years old to boot. Still, the idea of owning a combat report completed by Albert Ball sends a chill up my spine ... I guess some of these guys have an awesome "presence", even after all these years. Regarding current projects.... I am just doing the final "tidy up" on a DVII flown by Wilhelm Kuhne and am mid-way through a companion plane (Berthold's... Revell 1/72 kit). This gives me an opportunity to play around with lozenge stuff for the first time. (you have probably gathered that I am a rookie at this game ... I am trying to break out of a skills deep freeze brought about by a 20-year modelling hiatus). Speaking of firsts ... I think my next kit will be an Emhar Anatra Anasal DS I picked up. I have pulled everything that anyone had to say in the archives about rigging and will try and select an approach for myself. Seems there are about as many ways to rig a biplane as there are modellers out there. But the Anatra seems like a good first project for that - I have some good pics and a profile, and the plane seems to have lots of space between wings for me to fumble around in as I try this for the first time. I have already begun cleaning up some of the flash.. .the dry fit makes me think the model should go together nicely, leaving me only one thing (the rigging) to concentrate on. It has these peculiar clear plastic wheels, though. I'll have to think about what I'm going to do with them to make them "right"... being clear plastic, I figure I'll only get one chance at it so I better get it right the first time around. So... that is what is happening on my bench .... how about yourself? Dave Zulis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- In a message dated 98-05-23 23:07:30 EDT, Ernest Thomas replied: << Thanks for the link. I haven't seen those. They're neat, but I think some of those prices are a bit out of line. I only paid $120.00 for a really nice 15th century manuscript leaf. granted, it's only a biblical work, therefore, not really a one of a kind, but still a lovely, 500 year old, hand written page with gold embossed initials and elaborate red and blue pen work. Oh well? So what are you building right now? >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 00:03:08 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: the silence - plus combat reports Message-ID: <3567AA0C.230B@bellsouth.net> Zulis wrote: > > Hi Ernest; Still, the idea of owning > a combat report completed by Albert Ball sends a chill up my spine ... I > guess some of these guys have an awesome "presence", even after all these > years. Yeah, I guess that would be real neat. But not all that high on my list of historical artifacts I'd like to own. > > Regarding current projects.... I am just doing the final "tidy up" on a DVII > flown by Wilhelm Kuhne and am mid-way through a companion plane (Berthold's... > Revell 1/72 kit). So who's Wilhelm Kuhne, and what does his plane look like? That Anatra is a neat looking kit. I've looked mine over but have no plans for it right now. I figure it will look good next to the Ilya Mauromets that I have no immediate plans for. On the bench right now is the Smer SVA-5. I'm in the middle of scratch building the cockpit, but I'm waiting for a picture of the throttle from another Ansaldo A/C similar to the SVA. It's comming snail-mail from around the world and below the equator, so I have to wait a bit. And I don't want to get too far into things before I see the picture in case I have to make changes. But I've got the instrument panel mostly completed, the joystick made from brass, and the fuselage structure framed in Evergreen strip. I'm hoping to get the rudder bar and floor boards started tonight or tomorrow. Have fun with the lozenge. It's really not that bad. But the rib tapse are real tedious. Don't expect to do it all in one sitting. It takes me a few days to do a lozenge job. But the end result is worth it. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:53:10 -0700 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Re: Breguet 14A2 Message-ID: <3567B5C6.1C6F@ricochet.net> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > Does anybody know if there was/is a kit of the Breguet 14A2? Media is > not important. (FWIW, the Pegasus kit is the 14B2) I'm going to hazard a guess that the Wings kit is an A2. Don't remember seeing bomb racks on that one in the shop... Main difference with B2 is lack of Michelin bomb racks extenting from leading edge of wing...? I'll use the either the failing memory or ill-informed dolt defence if I'm wrong. Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:10:58 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: the silence - plus combat reports Message-ID: <342970f0.3567b9f3@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-24 01:06:55 EDT, you write: << a combat report completed by Albert Ball sends a chill up my spine Yeah, I guess that would be real neat. But not all that high on my list of historical artifacts I'd like to own> >> Uh, good Memorial weekend Bar B Q, 2 or 14 beers over the line , the reletives have left, the Doors CDs have been played, and as for historical artifacts- Uh,....I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BEOWULF'S SWORD HAND Sorry- as I said-it's been a REAL good bar-b-q Robert K. np-the not all together unpleasant buzz in my head and "Live at Fieldstone 97" by Gary Duncan and Quicksilver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:22:16 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: the silence - plus combat reports Message-ID: <3567BC98.A94@bellsouth.net> KarrArt wrote: > Uh, good Memorial weekend Bar B Q, 2 or 14 beers over the line , the reletives > have left, the Doors CDs have been played, and as for historical artifacts- > Uh,....I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BEOWULF'S SWORD HAND > Sorry- as I said-it's been a REAL good bar-b-q Sleep well, dream of Valkyries. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:10:45 +0200 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Woodman articles Message-ID: <199805241009.MAA12361@d1o211.telia.com> Charles The articles run in the issues from May 1974 through October the same year. Do you think we may run into any copyright problems by posting the articles as e-mail to wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu ? Are they sufficiently public then? I guess we could overcome any possible problems by if I mail directly to whoever wants the articles as a sort of group mail. Copying and distributing to friends should be allowed if there's no financial gain involved. I don't know enough about copyright laws to tell, especially possible rules about infringement of copyright over the 'net. Tom ---------- > From: Charles Hart > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Woodman articles > Date: 23. mai 1998 21:05 > > Tom, > > I think it would be useful to list the issues of Airfix Mag. that > these scans are coming from. At least this would clear up any provenance > issues and potential copyright problems. > > Charles > > hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > > > > > >Greetings all > > > >I have just scanned the text for a series of six articles that Harry > >Woodman wrote for Airfix magazine in 1970something. > > > >I'm posting the first one as a sample. Since it takes up a bit of > >bandwidth, I do so with hesitation. If posting it like this is a bad idea= > >, > >please advice, otherwise I'll post the remaining five over the nex few > >days.=20 > >I'm working on a version with scans of the illustrations as well, when th= > >at > >is done, I'll send them privately to whoever wants them. > >I would like to draw your attention to part 5 which is an excellent summa= > >ry > >of the German serial number system. > > > >Tom > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:24:15 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Warspite Message-ID: <199805241025.LAA05976@beryl.sol.co.uk> > Ran aground off Cornwall after losing her tow on the way to the breakers > - I wasn't aware that there were lives lost though > She was scrapped where she lay in the end - the breakers came to her > instead. Thanks for the info Aidrian - I can't remember the memorial exactly but it may have marked Warspite's grounding whilst remembering RN or Cornish war dead in general. When I started out as a callow computer salesman (Oh yeah?) in the seventies I remember visiting the RN breakers yard at Rosyth and seeing chunks of some of the last battleships still there. There were bits of some KG.V class battleships (Anson, Howe?) and lots of hulks of cruisers and smaller vessels. The boardroom walls are lined with pictures of the last voyage of just about every significant RN boat that wasn't sunk - about twenty carriers at least. Seems crazy to me that they waited until they only had the Belfast left to stick on the Thames - surely one of the big carriers with its complement of aircraft would have been much more exciting. Too little, too late. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:26:17 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Aeroclub Fe2B Message-ID: <199805241025.LAA05979@beryl.sol.co.uk> Nice model David. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:22:34 +0100 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Ludendorf's War Memories Message-ID: <199805241026.LAA05982@beryl.sol.co.uk> I was at a Book Fair in Edinburgh yesterday and acquired a first class set of General Ludendorf's War Memories, dictated in Sweden in 1918/19. Astonishing stuff, I have not been able to keep my head out of it since getting home. The old loony actually congratulates himself on the glorious victories won by the German Army before the collapse. Absolutely amazing to read so dispassionately of thousands being sent to their deaths in the great game of chess. He jusifies the Belgian atrocities as the fault of the Belgian government in using francs-tireurs, which of course left the honourable Germans with no option but to kill masses of civilians! Our American friends are also given extremely short shrift. Whilst mentioning individual acts of gallantry, he records for example the"inferior quality" of all the American divisions, held up for many weeks by only two "brave German divisions" which he had hitherto thought of rather poor quality. Of great interest of course are his comments on the use of the Air Service. Whilst I had always thought Trenchard wrong in expending RFC lives to help the ground situation, it is obvious in Ludendorf's view that the Air Service was of course only a very minor component in the greater plan. He writes of the effect of RFC ground attacks on his infantry and it becomes clear that Trenchard actually succeeded in the eyes of the enemy High Command. Of course this is then later adopted by the Germans themselves in the creation of the Schlachstas. BTW, at one point, he states the highest priority was to increase number and quality of Jasta fighters (probably because of the above) which rather contradicts somebody's view that reconnaissance was the main aim of the Germans. All in all frightening stuff - most interesting that our common interest was really regarded as of such minor significance by the commanders-in-chief - the only Richthofen who gets (several) mentions is the cavalry commander in Poland in 1914! In the Epilogue he laments that Germany now stands alone desterted by her allies, riven by un-German fears and brought low - he of course fails to remember that they started the bloody war! Given later events, the final paragraph is terrifying: "After our great downfall, let us, in memory of the heroes who fallen believing in Germany's greatness, the heroes whom the country now so badly needs, learn once again to be Germans, and to be proud that we are Germans. God grant it!" That was written in Berlin on 23rd June 1919 - which he writes as: "the day we accepted (!) the Peace. Sandy ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1034 **********************