WWI Digest 1031 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel by Ernest Thomas 2) Re: Needle Offer by dandk@mediaone.net 3) Nieuport 11/16 by mbittner@juno.com 4) Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel by mbittner@juno.com 5) Re: Solvaset by John & Allison Cyganowski 6) Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel by GRBroman 7) Re: QUARTER SCALE MODELLER by GRBroman 8) On topic - Off media by perrysm@juno.com 9) RE: DML Gun Problems by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" 10) Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel by Matthew Zivich 11) Re: Americals by Patrick Padovan 12) RE: Tull by Patrick Padovan 13) Fighting the Flying Circus by aew (Allan Wright) 14) Re: Tull by aew (Allan Wright) 15) Re: Nieuport 11/16 by Patrick Padovan 16) Re: Fighting the Flying Circus by djones@iex.com (Doug Jones) 17) Re: Tull by KarrArt 18) Re: Fighting the Flying Circus by aew (Allan Wright) 19) Re: Fighting the Flying Circus by djones@iex.com (Doug Jones) 20) Re: Tull by Patrick Padovan 21) Are we filling too many seams? by Bill Bacon 22) RE: Fighting the Flying Circus by Pedro e Francisca Soares 23) by Pedro e Francisca Soares 24) Re: Are we filling too many seams? by KarrArt 25) Re: Tull by KarrArt 26) Re: Are we filling too many seams? by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 27) Re: Are we filling too many seams? by KarrArt 28) Re: QUARTER SCALE MODELLER by mbittner@juno.com 29) Re: QUARTER SCALE MODELLER by Mick Fauchon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:11:50 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi Subject: Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel Message-ID: <3563B796.5C48@bellsouth.net> Bob, First of all, I haven't forgotten about you. But I do need your address again. I've been in the throes of trying to buy that first house, so things have been getting pushed aside. Acrylics have been part of my arsenal for some years now. They do have some real nice features like water clean-up. What I like the best is that they give you a pretty tough coat that can stand up to washes and dry brushing. But I have no real tricks for you. I just use em same as I use enamels. Except I use water in place of thinner. I might get better results if I used the mfg's recomended thinner, but the results I've had with water haven't justified even trying it. Of course, I just might not know what I'm missing. The down side is that washes made from acrylics just don't flow like washes made with enamels or artist oils. Adding a little soap to break up the surface tension helps some, but it's still not the same. I also find the quick drying time limits it's applications somewhat. I tend to use Pactra acrylics most of all, but that's the brand my local shop stocks. However, their gun metal is my all around favorite base color for white metals, their flat dark earth is my standard color for props and any time I need a really dark brown, and most anything that's flat black gets acrylic. And oddly enough, I can get down to the bottom of the bottle before it dries up. But to do this, You have to keep the lid and jar rim very clean. Not spotless, but don't let paint build up. Good luck and Happy modeling. Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:42:20 -0700 From: dandk@mediaone.net To: wwi Subject: Re: Needle Offer Message-ID: <3563B0AC.4F424F9A@mediaone.net> Hey Phillip, Thank you very much for your kind offer. I'm going to look for some wire like Ernest suggested but I would love to have some of those needles also and see what I can work with best. I plan to be messing up alot of these in the future. My snail mail address is: Dave Sterner 4336 Chase Ave. Los Angeles, Calif. 90066 I will be happy to pay for any postage costs you might have. Thanks again, Dave S. Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador wrote: > dear list: > > i've got some hypo needles from diabetic supplies--i use them for gluing > lexan boxes together with acetone. needless to say, the needle is still > perfectly good after the acetone has started to work on the rubber plunger > and plastic parts of the syrings. > > therefore, if anyone cares to forward me their snail adress, i'll send some > on to you. > > phillip > > -----Original Message----- > From: dandk@mediaone.net [SMTP:dandk@mediaone.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 10:10 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: DML Gun Problems > > Greeting all, > Slightly frustrated newcomer Dave S here with a problem building > my DML 1/48 guns. As I'm sure some of you know when you first try to put > these together the gun barrel is slightly too long for the jackets. > Through my advanced modeling ability I have now made the barrels too > short for the jackets. I have seen it suggested to use syringe needles > but living in L.A. the only places I think I could get them really > aren't safe to go without a WORKING Spandau. I've never tried pulling > sprue, but it seems hard for a newcomer. Any other ideas? Can anybody > get the needle tips where they live and sell some to me? As always > thanks for your time and thanks to Bill and IRA for the great painting > advice. > Keep 'em flyin', > Dave S > P.S. Tips for drilling/re-attatching the barrel tips would also be > greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:04:11 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Nieuport 11/16 Message-ID: <19980521.050412.13414.2.mbittner@juno.com> While making a new wing for the five-year Nieuport 16 project (the other wing just was - well - bad) I discovered somethings about the Nie.11/16 wing I thought I should share. This also means I need to update my conversion/correction article which I will do in the future. This might be old news to some of you, but there were no "riblets" on the Nie.11/16 wing. If you decide to add "ribs" to the wing after modification, be sure not to add the "riblets". Plus, in order to save the ailerons, I am adding a new procedure on how to cut the ESCI Nie.17 wing to make the Nie.11/16. First, cut the upper wing in half. Using plans, put each wing "half" on the plans at the aileron. Now remove approximately 2mm from where the wings were split apart, and *not* the wing tips. Glue the two halves back together, and reshape the tips. You will also have to reshape the cockpit cutout using this method, but at least you can use the kits' ailerons. I hope this makes sense. It should make more sense when I modify my conversion/correction article. I will let the list know when this has been done. Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:58:14 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel Message-ID: <19980521.050412.13414.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 20 May 1998 23:05:24 -0400 R Godfrey writes: > At risk of opening an old bag of worms, let me say it's a rather > new bag to me. I'd like to know what your various opinions are > on painting with acrylic and/or old-time enamel. I've used > enamel (even Testor's) for so long it seems the only thing for > model work, but it does have its down-side. I have been using acrylics since I got back into the hobby in 1989. For me since that time it has always been Polly S and now Polly Scale. I have tried "old formula" Model Master acrylic, and nothing at all beats Polly Scale. FWIW, Aeromaster's acrylic line is made by Polly Scale. When I thin, I use windshield washer fluid. I also use this to clean the airbrush. (My airbrush manufacturer recommends using a "thinner" instead of water.) While Polly Scale is tough, it's still not as tough as enamel. The name of the game with acrylics is to be sure your model is clean. Clean clean clean. I first wash the model when it comes out of the box in dishwasher detergent, and when I'm ready to paint the whole model, I then wash it again using Polly S' (I'm not sure if they have renamed this with the rest of the line) plastic washer called Polly S Plastic Prep. (Does anyone know if this is still in production? I have had my bottle for years.) Even though acrylics will be try to the touch in a matter of minutes, give the paint two to three days to "cure". You will pull of less during masking if you do so. HTH. Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 06:59:45 -0400 From: John & Allison Cyganowski To: wwi Subject: Re: Solvaset Message-ID: <35640921.79F1@worldnet.att.net> Solvaset is good stuff but be cautious with it. It is different chemistry than the Microsol/Microset solutions i.e. it is solvent based. The only adverse reaction I have had with the Microscale solutions is that the decals in a few rare instances would not set. The adverse reaction I have had with Solvaset is that I melted the roundles all over the top wing of my Aeroclub FE2b. You can dilute Solvaset with water, and I think that I should have done just this. John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:34:50 EDT From: GRBroman To: wwi Subject: Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel Message-ID: <23e22431.35642d7b@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-20 23:03:31 EDT, you write: << At risk of opening an old bag of worms, let me say it's a rather new bag to me. I'd like to know what your various opinions are on painting with acrylic and/or old-time enamel. I've used enamel (even Testor's) for so long it seems the only thing for model work, but it does have its down-side. >> I have been a hard core enamel freak for 30 years. I could never get acrylics to work in my airbrush. However, in a tragic twist of fate, I was finishing up two Bittner scale Emhar Mark IV's for the Region V show and I needed German feldgrau for my captured Mark IV Female. On Monday. When none of the good local hobby shops are open. Being under a time crunch, I went to the Brand X hobby shop and bought the new Polly S acrylic paint cuz thats all they had. Son of a gun if it didn't work like a charm. I mixed it the same as enamels, except I used distilled water. I have since purchased all of the WW I aircraft colors. The tank even took second in small scale armor behind Steve Hustads *&$% Tiger II ( Please note that Tigers are the equivalent of that Me 109 thingie to WW I armor fans). I really like their flat clear, it beats the heck out of Testors. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:35:06 EDT From: GRBroman To: wwi Subject: Re: QUARTER SCALE MODELLER Message-ID: <331a5632.35642d8c@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-20 23:18:15 EDT, you write: << FYI, Squadron stocks the mag. Watch for 1/72 scale modeler from the same publisher. >> Hmmm, methinks I see Matt B. peeing circles around himself right now :). Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:06:02 -0400 From: perrysm@juno.com To: wwi Subject: On topic - Off media Message-ID: <19980521.100603.25582.0.perrysm@juno.com> List: For anyone who has the occasional urge to butcher some balsa, the following add appeared in the July issue of Flying Models. Lil-Planes Kits New Peanuts Designed by Dale Hogue E1. SE5a E2. Ansaldo SVA5a E3. Fokker D.VII E4. JN 4D (9" rule) E5. DH 4 E6 Fokker D.VIII E7. Martinside Buzzard All are US $10.00 ppd Model Aircraft Labs 108 E. Lee St. Irving, Tx 75060 Texas res. 8.25% sales tax The issue had photos of several WWI models this month. A 71" Dr1 (425/17), a beautiful 88" electric D.VII in Rabins colors, A 73" RAF BE2c, A 40" electric Macchi M.5, (Beautifully done but quite pale in comparison to Alberto's masterpiece). Additionally there is a lengthy article on coloring and marking tissue on a color printer, including how to prevent inkjet ink from bleeding when dampened. The examples in the article were mostly from that more recent disagreement, but the technique has Lozenge written all over it. I'll let you know how it works. FWYW sp _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:54:25 -0500 From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: DML Gun Problems Message-ID: <01BD849E.70F8E1A0.panz-meador@vsti.com> ernest; unfortunately only one size right now (these are german insulin syringes which i get from german friends, the wife of the couple being diabetic), though i can check on other sizes. i measure it to be 0.013" outside diameter. phillip -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Thomas [SMTP:ethomas6@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 7:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DML Gun Problems Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador wrote: > > dear list: > > therefore, if anyone cares to forward me their snail adress, i'll send some > on to you. > > phillip Would you have a variety of sizes? Ernest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:29:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Zivich To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Acrylic vs. Enamel Message-ID: There are acrylic paint retarders to slow down the drying time on the market now, and also so-called "flow enhancers" to ease the application of acrylic paints. Check the shelves of your local art supply store. Matt Z. On Thu, 21 May 1998, Ernest Thomas wrote: > Bob, > > First of all, I haven't forgotten about you. But I do need your address > again. I've been in the throes of trying to buy that first house, so > things have been getting pushed aside. > Acrylics have been part of my arsenal for some years now. They do have > some real nice features like water clean-up. What I like the best is > that they give you a pretty tough coat that can stand up to washes and > dry brushing. But I have no real tricks for you. I just use em same as I > use enamels. Except I use water in place of thinner. I might get better > results if I used the mfg's recomended thinner, but the results I've had > with water haven't justified even trying it. Of course, I just might not > know what I'm missing. > The down side is that washes made from acrylics just don't flow like > washes made with enamels or artist oils. Adding a little soap to break > up the surface tension helps some, but it's still not the same. I also > find the quick drying time limits it's applications somewhat. > I tend to use Pactra acrylics most of all, but that's the brand my local > shop stocks. However, their gun metal is my all around favorite base > color for white metals, their flat dark earth is my standard color for > props and any time I need a really dark brown, and most anything that's > flat black gets acrylic. > And oddly enough, I can get down to the bottom of the bottle before it > dries up. But to do this, You have to keep the lid and jar rim very > clean. Not spotless, but don't let paint build up. Good luck and Happy > modeling. > > Ernest > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:21:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Americals Message-ID: Re recent comments about Americal not responding to Mico-sol, etc. Try Sovaset (Solv-a-set?) I've had excellent results with this combination and a little patience. I've also had occasional registration problems, but nothing beyond those found in most other decal sheets. I agree with the previous comments to the effect that the roundels, etc. from Americal achieve a more "painted on" appearance than other brands. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:33:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Tull Message-ID: Re: "Or being "As Thick As A Brick". . ." I think we should give him the "Benefit" of the doubt! Patrick P.S. Do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real, and in the present tense? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:32:32 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Fighting the Flying Circus Message-ID: <199805211832.OAA06690@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Anyone know where to get an affordable copy of Eddie Rickenbacker's book _FIGHTING_THE_FLYING_CIRCUS_? -Allan =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:36:43 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Tull Message-ID: <199805211836.OAA06731@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Re: "Or being "As Thick As A Brick". . ." > I think we should give him the "Benefit" of the doubt! > > Patrick > P.S. Do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real, and in > the present tense? My "Teacher" told me that a "Fat Man" never thinks such thoughts. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:11:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Nieuport 11/16 Message-ID: Dear Matt: Useful info, thanks. Also, wanted to let you know that I'm finishing up the color notes on my Spit article. Have you recieved any of those new VVS a/c kits yet which we were discussing? If so, reviews, please! Talk to you later. (Still waiting to for my Toko LaGG-3 & Snipe to arrive from Hannants!) Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:05:17 -0500 (CDT) From: djones@iex.com (Doug Jones) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fighting the Flying Circus Message-ID: <199805211905.OAA01011@deimos.tx.iex.com> > Anyone know where to get an affordable copy of Eddie Rickenbacker's > book _FIGHTING_THE_FLYING_CIRCUS_? > UTD has several copies at $20 and a 1st edition copy at $50. Doug -- ------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones@iex.com ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:05:54 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Tull Message-ID: <42aa8f3.35647b13@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-21 14:35:51 EDT, you write: << My "Teacher" told me that a "Fat Man" never thinks such thoughts. -Al >> At this point, I must "stand up" and say "nothing is easy" Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:18:48 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fighting the Flying Circus Message-ID: <199805211918.PAA07009@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > > Anyone know where to get an affordable copy of Eddie Rickenbacker's > > book _FIGHTING_THE_FLYING_CIRCUS_? > > > UTD has several copies at $20 and a 1st edition copy at $50. Doh! I overlooked that one - what's the URL again? -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:35:06 -0500 (CDT) From: djones@iex.com (Doug Jones) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fighting the Flying Circus Message-ID: <199805211935.OAA03409@deimos.tx.iex.com> > Doh! I overlooked that one - what's the URL again? I hate it when that happens! http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/aeroclassics/Page1.html Doug -- ------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones@iex.com ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Tull Message-ID: Oh yeah? Well, your "Old Man" has "Locomotive Breath"! Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 21 May 1998, KarrArt wrote: > In a message dated 98-05-21 14:35:51 EDT, you write: > > << My "Teacher" told me that a "Fat Man" never thinks such thoughts. > > -Al >> > > At this point, I must "stand up" and say "nothing is easy" > Robert K. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:01:35 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Are we filling too many seams? Message-ID: <3564A43F.BE5C03F@netjava.net> Fellow fiends, While at the Champlin Museum after the OTF Seminar, it passed through my rather dense skull, that there are some seams which do not need filling. The construction of our favorite A/C was such that it could be disassembled and assembled with relative ease. Wing and empenage were bolted in place as separate, complete and unique parts. If you bolt the horizontal tail plane in place, there has to be a gap at the juncture. With few exceptions, there was no use of a fairing to do away with the gap. The juncture of wing and fuselage and the assembly of multi part upper wings (DH-4 and SE-5 as examples) leave a visible gap or, maybe more properly, a visible unfaired joint. We have various methods of reproducing lacing but do we realize that the meeting of the laced together pieces of fabric do not form a solid piece of fabric but there is a gap or overlap of the pieces. We go for wood grain, panel lines etc. but do we leave or control these actual gaps. Food for thought for all of us as well as the judges. WW II A/C as well as the blow torches were and are concerned with minimal air flow distubance. Our period deals with slow flying bricks. Just a thought. Comments? Cheers, Bill B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:12:37 +0200 From: Pedro e Francisca Soares To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Fighting the Flying Circus Message-ID: <01BD850D.F466F8A0@fei1-p1.telepac.pt> -----Original Message----- From: Allan Wright [SMTP:aew@pease1.sr.unh.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 8:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fighting the Flying Circus Anyone know where to get an affordable copy of Eddie Rickenbacker's book _FIGHTING_THE_FLYING_CIRCUS_? -Allan Hey Al, our magnificent list keeper you can download it for free from the War times journal site. Just surf to http://www.wtj.com and check the archives section IIRC. I learned this from Graham. It's a pretty intersting site to check every now and then. HTH Pedro Who isn't getting too old for rock&roll and is still too young to die (I knew this list is full of classy good tasted guys.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:15:56 +0200 From: Pedro e Francisca Soares To: "'ww1 modeling list'" Message-ID: <01BD850E.6B5F83A0@fei1-p1.telepac.pt> Al, just checked it. Go to: http://www.wtj.com/pl/pages/rick.htm HTH Um abraco Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:39:50 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Are we filling too many seams? Message-ID: <7e974c39.3564ad38@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-21 18:00:49 EDT, you write: << at the Champlin Museum after the OTF Seminar, it passed through my rather dense skull, that there are some seams which do not need filling..... Wing and empenage were bolted in place as separate, complete and unique parts. ...With few exceptions, there was no use of a fairing to do away with the gap. The juncture of wing and fuselage and the assembly of multi part upper wings (DH-4 and SE-5 as examples) leave a visible gap or, maybe more properly, a visible unfaired join...... the meeting of the laced together pieces of fabric do not form a solid piece of fabric but there is a gap or overlap of the pieces. We go for wood grain, panel lines etc. but do we leave or control these actual gaps. Food for thought for all of us as well as the judges. WW II A/C as well as the blow torches were and are concerned with minimal air flow distubance. Our period deals with slow flying bricks. ust a thought. Comments? Cheers, Bill B. >> Absolutely.Where no gap is visible- fill it on the model, but there are a lot of joints on early craft that DO have gaps.As an example, take almost any member of the BE family- almost every place major components come together leaves a gap wide enough for daylight to show through. I've seen models of Fokkers that had all visible traces of component separation obliterated- not only does this give a false impression of actual construction practices, but the poor modeler went to a lot of extra work for nothing. Robert K. ( waiting for sealing goo on new home-made vac-box to dry) ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v43.17) with SMTP; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:00:49 -0400 Received: from pease1.sr.unh.edu (pease1.sr.unh.edu [132.177.241.20]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id SAA10898; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:00:44 -0400 (EDT) >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:39:48 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Tull Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-21 17:35:49 EDT, you write: << Oh yeah? Well, your "Old Man" has "Locomotive Breath"! Patrick >> Is the WW I Mailing List "living in the past"? Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Are we filling too many seams? Message-ID: <199805212233.PAA01393@ednet1.orednet.org> Bill B writes: >Fellow fiends, >While at the Champlin Museum after the OTF Seminar, it passed through my >rather dense skull, that there are some seams which do not need >filling. The construction of our favorite A/C was such that it could be >disassembled and assembled with relative ease. Wing and empenage were >bolted in place as separate, complete and unique parts. If you bolt the >horizontal tail plane in place, there has to be a gap at the juncture. >With few exceptions, there was no use of a fairing to do away with the >gap. The juncture of wing and fuselage and the assembly of multi part >upper wings (DH-4 and SE-5 as examples) leave a visible gap or, maybe >more properly, a visible unfaired joint. >We have various methods of reproducing lacing but do we realize that the >meeting of the laced together pieces of fabric do not form a solid piece >of fabric but there is a gap or overlap of the pieces. We go for wood >grain, panel lines etc. but do we leave or control these actual gaps. >Food for thought for all of us as well as the judges. WW II A/C as well >as the blow torches were and are concerned with minimal air flow >distubance. Our period deals with slow flying bricks. >Just a thought. Comments? I have no problem with the theory, in the abstract but I do question its applicability to the little pieces of plastic we attempt to assemble in small scale replicas of flying things. While gaps and overlaps were certainly common on early aircraft, our aeronautical forefathers weren't stupid when it came to things like air resistance and structural intergity - well, maybe Tony Fokker screwed up occassionally on the later - and gaps and overlaps were generally kept as small as possible. Certainly, gaps in excess of 1/2" or so would have been the exception rather than the rule. And, of course, at 1/72 scale, a 1/2" gap scales out at a little under .02 millimeters. Even at 1/48, with a full 1" gap, it would still scale out at just a smidge over 1/20 of a millimeter. Can we even _see_ a .02 or .05 millimeter gap on a model from normal viewing distance? Anyway, I doubt if many modelers can accurately create a real "gap" in the .02 to .05 mm range. I sure can't. About the best I think that can be done in most cases is to fill the real live gap and then gently rescribe the area to approximate the scale width of the prototype gap. Just leaving the seam unfilled is almost _always_ gonna leave a gap which is far too large for scale and probably too "raggety" and variable in width as well. For myself, if I can see the "gap" in the photographs, I may (but not always) attempt to duplicate it on the model by scribing. If I can't see it in the photos, it doesn't exist for modeling purposes, so far as I'm concerned. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:24:11 EDT From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Are we filling too many seams? Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-21 19:19:45 EDT, you write: << question its applicability to the little pieces of plastic we attempt to assemble in small scale replicas of flying things...........and gaps and overlaps were generally kept as small as possible. Certainly, gaps in excess of 1/2" or so would have been the exception rather than the rule. And, of course, at 1/72 scale, a 1/2" gap scales out at a little under .02 millimeters. Even at 1/48, with a full 1" gap, it would still scale out at just a smidge over 1/20 of a millimeter. Can we even _see_ a .02 or .05 millimeter gap on a model from normal viewing distance? Anyway, I doubt if many modelers can accurately create a real "gap" in the .02 to .05 mm range. I sure can't. About the best I think that can be done in most cases is to fill the real live gap and then gently rescribe the area to approximate the scale width of the prototype gap. Just leaving the seam unfilled is almost _always_ gonna leave a gap which is far too large for scale and probably too "raggety" and variable in width as well. For myself, if I can see the "gap" in the photographs, I may (but not always) attempt to duplicate it on the model by scribing. If I can't see it in the photos, it doesn't exist for modeling purposes, so far as I'm concerned.>> Depending on which joint on which airplane, sometimes the fill-and-rescribe method is best, but if daylight shows between the full size components, then I like to see this on a model- especially control surface gaps. If you're blind as a doorknob as I am, normal viewing distance is around 3"! (I have to confess that I do often get lazy and just rescribe). One of the difficult parts is making a strong joint. On something like where a wing joins a center section, the actual items are usually attached at only a couple of places. I drill into the ends of each part and use guitar wire and CA. Robert K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:21:44 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: QUARTER SCALE MODELLER Message-ID: <19980521.210637.16574.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 21 May 1998 09:39:06 -0400 GRBroman writes: >Hmmm, methinks I see Matt B. peeing circles around himself right now >:). Oh, what a funny fella! I'll have you know that Small Scale Aviator is (was?) out, so I've already seen it. :-) Matt Bittner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:13:59 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: QUARTER SCALE MODELLER Message-ID: Matt, > Oh, what a funny fella! I'll have you know that Small Scale Aviator is > (was?) out, so I've already seen it. :-) Have your glasses on, di ya? Tee-hee 80) Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 1031 **********************