WWI Digest 1002

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Bristol Boxkite at Oakey
	by Mick Fauchon <ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au>
  2) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  3) Anarchist
	by John & Allison Cyganowski <Janah@worldnet.att.net>
  4) Re: Additions to the UTD Sale
	by "Douglas R. Jones" <djones@iex.com>
  5) Re: April 29,1918
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  6) Re: Anarchist
	by Michelle and Rory Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
  7) Re: Bristol Boxkite
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  8) Re: 
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
  9) Re: dumb question (was RE: Mystery WW1 Toko-To be released in Ma
	by "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
 10) Re: Vickers MG questions
	by "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
 11) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by Jim Elkins <jimelk@swbell.net>
 12) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
 13) Re: Bristol Boxkite Plans
	by "Mt Warren Park State School" <mtwarrpk@ozemail.com.au>
 14) Remember me?
	by TRoes7718 <TRoes7718@aol.com>
 15) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by "Sandy Adam" <cbbs@almac.co.uk>
 16) Toko Sopwith Salamander
	by mbittner@juno.com
 17) Re: HB-W.29 Colors
	by mbittner@juno.com
 18) Latest Windsock
	by mbittner@juno.com
 19) Re: Toko Sopwith Salamander
	by "Sandy Adam" <cbbs@almac.co.uk>
 20) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 21) New Image
	by aew (Allan Wright)
 22) Re: New Image
	by Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
 23) Re: New Image
	by aew (Allan Wright)
 24) Re: New Image
	by Eric Fisher <efisher@cwo.com>
 25) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
 26) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
 27) Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
	by Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
 28) Re: Toko Sopwith Salamander
	by Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
 29) Albatros III OEF
	by REATON@ccmail.dsccc.com
 30) Revell kits, etc.
	by Patrick Padovan <ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us>
 31) MoS Type I
	by "Bittner, Matthew (KTR) ~U" <BITTNERM@stratcom.af.mil>
 32) Re: Albatros III OEF
	by "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
 33) Re: Toko Sopwith Salamander
	by "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:00:07 +1000 (EST)
From: Mick Fauchon <ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: RE: Bristol Boxkite at Oakey
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9804301144.E14171-0100000@dewey.newcastle.edu.au>



	Shane,

> It's a replica BTW

	Really? I thought it was a Boxkite.80)

	Boom boom! 80)


								Mick.




--                                                                          --
Mick Fauchon                          | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au
Reference Section, Auchmuty Library   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 215861
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA    | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

     MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
     M                                                                   M
     M	Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!"      M 
     M                                                                   M
     M	Yosemite Sam   : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M
     M                                                                   M
     MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:16:01 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <3547ECF1.ADD@bellsouth.net>

Bill Shatzer wrote:
  Still, at
> one time anarchists were America's favorite boogey-men, being
> routinely blamed for all manner of crimes, misfortunes and
> things that go bump in the night - whether anarchists were
> actually involved or not.

We still are!;-(
Ernest the Anarchist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:13:47 -0400
From: John & Allison Cyganowski <Janah@worldnet.att.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Anarchist
Message-ID: <3547EC6B.36A7@worldnet.att.net>

"On September 6 an anarchist named Leon Czolgosz shot him during a
public reception in the Temple of Music. Despite early hopes for his
recovery, McKinley died on Sept. 14, 1901, in Buffalo."

Not really on topic, but then I am not a purist.

Bon Chance!
John Cyg.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:19:00 -0500
From: "Douglas R. Jones" <djones@iex.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Additions to the UTD Sale
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980429221858.006bd988@deimos.tx.iex.com>

At 08:18 PM 4/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>   You can call Mary Caspari at 972-883-2570 during CST business hours.
>
>And her email address is:
>
>mcaspari@utdallas.edu

All this is contained at
http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/aeroclassics/Page1.html

Thanks for all your support, folks! UTD really does appreciate it!

Doug
--------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of       |   Douglas R. Jones
     both Time and Space' |   IEX Corporation
        Led Zeppelin      |   (972)301-1307
                          |   djones@iex.com
--------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:19:42 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: April 29,1918
Message-ID: <3547EDCE.11C8@bellsouth.net>

BStett3770 wrote:
> 
> Hi Gang
> 
> This date 1918, Lt. Edward Rickenbacker downed his first enemy aircraft.
> 
> Keep Modeling
> Barry
> Rosemont Hobby

A toast to E.V.R.! 
Buttered of course.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:18:03 -0700
From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin <mgoodwin@ricochet.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Anarchist
Message-ID: <3547FB7B.2EDC@ricochet.net>

John & Allison Cyganowski wrote:
> 
> "On September 6 an anarchist named Leon Czolgosz shot him during a
> public reception in the Temple of Music. Despite early hopes for his
> recovery, McKinley died on Sept. 14, 1901, in Buffalo."

CURSES!

Wrong at every turn!

Oh, well. At least I got the anarchist and President part right, if not
the particular President or century...
Islands of knowledge, don't you know. I suppose a vague familiarity with
history is better than none at all...

Jody the librarian

(Confused teeny boppette at the local pizza place gave me a new alias,
but based on my last name for once)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:25:10 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Bristol Boxkite
Message-ID: <3547FD26.AE1@bellsouth.net>

Mt Warren Park State School wrote:
> 
> Charlie,
> 
> Did you get plans?  (I've been out of touch for the last couple of weeks).
> I have a 3-view in 1/72 scale from a 1948 Harborough publication which I
> could photocopy and send by snail if still wanted.
> David
> 
David,
Could I get a copy with a SASE?
Ernest

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:40:33 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 
Message-ID: <354800C1.6238@bellsouth.net>

Pedro e Francisca Soares wrote:
> 
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6E35.62612E60
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Ernest Thomas [SMTP:ethomas6@bellsouth.net]
> Sent:   Wednesday, April 22, 1998 2:19 AM
> To:     Multiple recipients of list
> Subject:        Re:
> 
> I haven't, but I'll look for it.
> EtH
> 
> Hi Mighty Heretic Brother
> 
> 4 Volumes:
> 
> - Taliesin
> - Merlin
> - Arthur
> - Pendragon
> 
Pedro,
So I found these books and I can order all of them. Which one should I
start with?
Also, I noticed one call 'Grail' comming out in june as a mass market
paperback. Is this part of the same series? 
Finished Excalibur btw. I enjoyed it much more than EoG. 
Now reading; 'Jonny got his gun'. shudderrrr...

EtH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:46:31 +0000
From: "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: dumb question (was RE: Mystery WW1 Toko-To be released in Ma
Message-ID: <199804300450.AAA20594@cliff.concentric.net>

> OK, i'll bite.  i've seen camels referred to as a "comic camel" and such, 
> but never the 1-1/2 strutter.  does "comic" refer to the night fighter 
> versions of each?  if so, where did this appelation come from?

The Comic was the single-seat night fighter flown from what was 
originally the gunner's cockpit.
Rob
<rojol@concentric.net>
To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1.

Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:50:14 +0000
From: "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Vickers MG questions
Message-ID: <199804300453.AAA21483@cliff.concentric.net>

> An ignorant Amerikaner asks :  1:At what point did the "cone-shaped " muzzle
> booster on the Vickers machine gun come in to use? 2: Was this  muzzle booster
> used on aircraft armament? 3: Were  the U.S. Colt- built Vickers in the
> 11mm"balloon -buster round" caliber (or any 11mm Vickers) actually used in
> combat?  Thanks  ,Bob McClellan      "What do we want  with eggs and ham ,when
> we've got plum and apple jam!  Oh!.Oh! Oh! What a lovely war!"
 
I have never heard of a US-made 11-mm (perhaps there is some 
confusion because plans for a US-made version of the cartridge were 
scuttled by the Ordinance department's insistence on 
improvements--the result was the US .50-cal). If memory 
serves, Woodman says that Willy Coppens got one of the handmade, 
French pattern guns and used it in action on a Hanriot with great 
success.
Rob
<rojol@concentric.net>
To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1.

Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:05:58 -0700
From: Jim Elkins <jimelk@swbell.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <354822D1.DEBBAFF4@swbell.net>



Matthew Zivich wrote:

> The so-called "Flying Bolshevik" wouldn't be a "Flying Anarchist" by any
> chance would it?  The anarchists may have pre-dated the Bolsheviks as
> stereotypical bomb toters.   Subtleties aside, as often happens, similar
> types tend to be lumped together symbolically.
> MZ

A lot of good points Bolshevik v. Anarchist (Fighting the urge to pun;
"...an ERNEST discussion about anarchy...) (SORRY ALL).  But I do believe
the squadrons intent was Bolshevism <--(A real word?).  We've been keying on
the rise of Bolsehvism and anarcism in the US and its dates.  But IMHO I
believe the "Flying Bolsheviks" was the true intent.  The resource I will
check again.  Last time I concentrated on the acft colors and serials and
just perused the rest.  Now I will key on the hows and whys of the insignia
and intent.  But mention was made in the article about at least one squadron
member who, after the war, went to Poland to fight the tide of Bolshevism.
My historical knowledge is sketchy on the Russian revolution and Red
October, but was that not a Bolshevik uprising??
I'll check out the article Friday and get back to the list with what I find.

Jim


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:34:16 -0500
From: "Lee Mensinger" <lemen@wireweb.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <35480D58.3FFEE85A@wireweb.net>

Michelle and Rory Goodwin wrote:

> Matthew Zivich wrote:
> >
> > The so-called "Flying Bolshevik" wouldn't be a "Flying Anarchist" by
> any
> > chance would it?  The anarchists may have pre-dated the Bolsheviks
> as
> > stereotypical bomb toters.   Subtleties aside, as often happens,
> similar
> > types tend to be lumped together symbolically.
> > MZ
>
> Since Bolsheviks were 'players' in my favorite underreported conflict,
> I
> feel obligated to offer a semi-educated response.
> Matt, I believe you are correct, this character was an anarchist, and
> I
> believe they did antedate the 'Bolos' by a few decades. If memory
> serves, James Madison(?) (or some other US President) was assassinated
>
> by an anarchist in the 19th century.
> Anyone who knows US history better is cordially invited to chime in
> with
> more accurate information.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Riordan

I think a representation of the emblem wass used as "The Anarchist" in a
comic strip which was popular in the 1929 to about 1937 time frame.  I
seem to recall he was a good image of the  Emblem bomb and all.  Lee


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:38:58 +1000
From: "Mt Warren Park State School" <mtwarrpk@ozemail.com.au>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Bristol Boxkite Plans
Message-ID: <199804300539.PAA24383@oznet15.ozemail.com.au>

Certainly Shane,
One photocopy coming up. And for you it'll hardly cost anything.
Snivel, snivel,
David#2
 

> Shane
> (David, for that snivelling effort, do you think a copy of your plans
> might be available to me at next BSM meeting?)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:36:02 EDT
From: TRoes7718 <TRoes7718@aol.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Remember me?
Message-ID: <10d6fba3.35481bd3@aol.com>

Greetings All,

Well here I am in sunny Phoenix, staying the night with the organizer of the
OTF seminar. I have been trying to talk Al Roesler into joining our merry
band, but he has been hemming and hawing all night, so to show him what we can
do, could someone please send along a list of available 1/48 injection or
resin 2-seater kits to TRoes7718@aol.com.

Thanks

Wishing you were here,
                    Bob Pearson 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:19:45 +0100
From: "Sandy Adam" <cbbs@almac.co.uk>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <199804300909.KAA01963@beryl.sol.co.uk>

> Ernest the Anarchist

Make up your mind man!
(Your getting as bad as the librarian for egregious epithets!)

Sandy (Adam - The Original)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:30:28 -0500
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Toko Sopwith Salamander
Message-ID: <19980430.043227.8934.1.mbittner@juno.com>

I, for one, am not pleased with this release.  I would have liked to see
Toko do the Camel instead of the Salamader.  To me, the Camel is more
important than the Salamander, and deserves a "90s" kit.  Ah well...


Matt Bittner

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:26:40 -0500
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: HB-W.29 Colors
Message-ID: <19980430.043227.8934.0.mbittner@juno.com>

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:14:47 -0400 Mick Fauchon
<ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au> writes:

>	Why? Matt knows it's never stopped *me* before 80)........and
>I think we're still buddies......Matt?....buddy? 80)

Phblttttt!!!! :-P`````


Matt Bittner

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:32:26 -0500
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Latest Windsock
Message-ID: <19980430.043227.8934.2.mbittner@juno.com>

I have been meaning to tell the list this, but keep forgetting.  I'm not
sure if it has been said before, but list member David Layton has a
picture of his Skybirds '86 Halberstadt D.II in the front cover in color
of the latest Windsock!

Go David!!!

Plus, it's in the right scale - woo hoo!!!


Matt Bittner

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:37:08 +0100
From: "Sandy Adam" <cbbs@almac.co.uk>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: Toko Sopwith Salamander
Message-ID: <199804301100.MAA05939@beryl.sol.co.uk>

 
> I, for one, am not pleased with this release.  I would have liked to see
> Toko do the Camel instead of the Salamader.  To me, the Camel is more
> important than the Salamander, and deserves a "90s" kit.  Ah well...
> Matt Bittner

I respect your opinion Matt (and I should be quiet, I know, since I am not
involved in 1/72) but what I would give for a 1/48 Salamander! Since much
of the disfavour of RAF types is caused by the lack of colourful finishes,
surely the Salamander has been crying out to be kitted if only to paint it
in that wonderful disruptive "Trench Fighting" camouflage scheme?
Sandy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:13:35 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <35486AEF.5618@bellsouth.net>

Sandy Adam wrote:
> 
> > Ernest the Anarchist
> 
> Make up your mind man!
> (Your getting as bad as the librarian for egregious epithets!)
> 
> Sandy (Adam - The Original)

Sorry, it's just that they all apply. Maybe I'll have to come up with
one epithet that says it all. What do you think about; 
Ernest the swimmer against the current?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:31:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: aew (Allan Wright)
To: wwi
Subject: New Image
Message-ID: <199804301231.IAA16725@pease1.sr.unh.edu>

Shane mailed me another model imae for his gallery page - you can 
view it ont he WWW page at: 

http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/Images/Weier/

-Al

===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.           | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders!
University of New Hampshire+---------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center  | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu 
Internet: aew@unh.edu      | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:36:48 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas <ethomas6@bellsouth.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: New Image
Message-ID: <35487060.3D20@bellsouth.net>

Allan Wright wrote:
> 
> Shane mailed me another model imae for his gallery page - you can
> view it ont he WWW page at:
> 
> http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/Images/Weier/
> 
> -Al
> 
> ===============================================================================
> Allan Wright Jr.           | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders!
> University of New Hampshire+---------------------------------------------------
> Research Computing Center  | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
> Internet: aew@unh.edu      | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu
> ===============================================================================

Hey Allan,
What's the status on my Aerodrome photos?
Ernest

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:48:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: aew (Allan Wright)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: New Image
Message-ID: <199804301248.IAA16833@pease1.sr.unh.edu>

> Hey Allan,
> What's the status on my Aerodrome photos?
> Ernest

I've got them here to scan. I need to stay after fork to scan them. I'm working
on another set right now from Matt Bittner, then yours. 

-Allan

===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.           | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders!
University of New Hampshire+---------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center  | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu 
Internet: aew@unh.edu      | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:15:10 -0800
From: Eric Fisher <efisher@cwo.com>
To: <wwi>
Subject: Re: New Image
Message-ID: <199804301416.HAA15536@mail.cwo.com>

Allan,

I think you are forking too hard, you need some lest. Me--I'm off to 
Phonix to play.

Cheers,

Eric.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980430143408.18212A-100000@tardis.svsu.edu>

Riordan,
(Slightly off-topic tobesure)
Lincoln killed by a mediocre actor,
Garfield by a disgruntled clerk,
McKinley by a reputed anarchist,
Kennedy by a disgruntled ex-marine
MZ
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Michelle and Rory Goodwin wrote:

> Matthew Zivich wrote:
> > 
> > The so-called "Flying Bolshevik" wouldn't be a "Flying Anarchist" by any
> > chance would it?  The anarchists may have pre-dated the Bolsheviks as
> > stereotypical bomb toters.   Subtleties aside, as often happens, similar
> > types tend to be lumped together symbolically.
> > MZ
> 
> Since Bolsheviks were 'players' in my favorite underreported conflict, I
> feel obligated to offer a semi-educated response.
> Matt, I believe you are correct, this character was an anarchist, and I
> believe they did antedate the 'Bolos' by a few decades. If memory
> serves, James Madison(?) (or some other US President) was assassinated
> by an anarchist in the 19th century.
> Anyone who knows US history better is cordially invited to chime in and
> make a liar out of me.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Riordan
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:49:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980430144455.18212B-100000@tardis.svsu.edu>

Off topic continued,

Attempts were also made on Jackson's life (two pistols misfired and Ol' 
Hickory throttled his would-be assassin.); on F. Roosevelt's life; on 
Gerald Ford's life; and finally Reagan's life.
MZ

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Bill Shatzer wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Riordan writes:
> 
> >Matt, I believe you are correct, this character was an anarchist, and I
> >believe they did antedate the 'Bolos' by a few decades. If memory
> >serves, James Madison(?) (or some other US President) was assassinated
> >by an anarchist in the 19th century.
> 
> Well, certainly not Madison who completed his two terms of
> the presidency successfully (if you ignore that nasty bit
> where the British came and burned down Washington)
> and in relatively good health and who lived to a ripe old age.
> 
> Yer thinking of either Garfield or McKinley but I can never
> remember whether it was McKinley who was shot by the anarchist
> and Garfield by the disappointed office seeker or vice versa.
> 
> The anarchists were, incidently, more of a European phenomena
> than an American one with the Russian Mikhail Bakunin being
> the proto-typical advocate for the bomb throwers.  Still, at
> one time anarchists were America's favorite boogey-men, being
> routinely blamed for all manner of crimes, misfortunes and
> things that go bump in the night - whether anarchists were
> actually involved or not.
> 
> >Anyone who knows US history better is cordially invited to chime in with
> >more accurate information.
> 
> Bing-bong!
> 
> Cheers and all,
> 
> 
> --
>                      Bill Shatzer   - bshatzer@orednet.org
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:22:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: 20th Aero Squadron colors, equipment
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980430151707.18212F-100000@tardis.svsu.edu>

I'm not a historian by any means, but you might get into hot water 
claiming it was a Bolshevik Uprising.  I think the Bolsheviks wanted the 
publicity the same way present day terrorist groups make false claims for 
air crashes, etc.  Afterall Kerensky was a leader for a short time after the 
October revolution and he was no Bolshevik (otherwise he wouldn't have 
ended up in California.)  To the West it was all Bolshevik.
MZ

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Jim Elkins wrote:

> 
> 
> Matthew Zivich wrote:
> 
> > The so-called "Flying Bolshevik" wouldn't be a "Flying Anarchist" by any
> > chance would it?  The anarchists may have pre-dated the Bolsheviks as
> > stereotypical bomb toters.   Subtleties aside, as often happens, similar
> > types tend to be lumped together symbolically.
> > MZ
> 
> A lot of good points Bolshevik v. Anarchist (Fighting the urge to pun;
> "...an ERNEST discussion about anarchy...) (SORRY ALL).  But I do believe
> the squadrons intent was Bolshevism <--(A real word?).  We've been keying on
> the rise of Bolsehvism and anarcism in the US and its dates.  But IMHO I
> believe the "Flying Bolsheviks" was the true intent.  The resource I will
> check again.  Last time I concentrated on the acft colors and serials and
> just perused the rest.  Now I will key on the hows and whys of the insignia
> and intent.  But mention was made in the article about at least one squadron
> member who, after the war, went to Poland to fight the tide of Bolshevism.
> My historical knowledge is sketchy on the Russian revolution and Red
> October, but was that not a Bolshevik uprising??
> I'll check out the article Friday and get back to the list with what I find.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Zivich <mzivich@tardis.svsu.edu>
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Re: Toko Sopwith Salamander
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980430152454.18212G-100000@tardis.svsu.edu>

I must agree with this message.  I built the Pegasus Salamander in 
butterfly scale and it just made me want to have a larger craft to expand 
the painting possibilities. A very unique aircraft.

MZ

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Sandy Adam wrote:

>  
> > I, for one, am not pleased with this release.  I would have liked to see
> > Toko do the Camel instead of the Salamader.  To me, the Camel is more
> > important than the Salamander, and deserves a "90s" kit.  Ah well...
> > Matt Bittner
> 
> I respect your opinion Matt (and I should be quiet, I know, since I am not
> involved in 1/72) but what I would give for a 1/48 Salamander! Since much
> of the disfavour of RAF types is caused by the lack of colourful finishes,
> surely the Salamander has been crying out to be kitted if only to paint it
> in that wonderful disruptive "Trench Fighting" camouflage scheme?
> Sandy
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:04:13 -0500
From: REATON@ccmail.dsccc.com
To: wwi
Subject: Albatros III OEF
Message-ID: <0022783F.3370@ccmail.dsccc.com>

     Here is a quick question for the team. I'm finishing up the Pegasus 
     treatment of this bird in Blue Rider AH swirl fabric. (Interesting 
     look) I assume that the guns on this animal are enclosed in the 
     fuselage as they are on other AH aeroplanes. What, if any, outside 
     appearance would the gun muzzles have and where? Any one else done 
     this plane in swirl?
     
     List getting quieter with OTF weekend coming on. Wish I could have 
     gone......
     
     Regards,
     
     Richard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Padovan <ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi>
Subject: Revell kits, etc.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980430124520.16304E-100000@timber20.timberland.lib.wa.us>

Dear Matt: Wanted to let you know that the Revell kits arrived yesterday,
thanks much. The Camel looks fine, no problems there.
   I spent a couple of hours Dremeling the interior of my Pegasus Phonix
D.I yesterday, and also started to cut the ailerons loose, and cleaned up
the engine. So, I guess that's my next WWI subject.
                                                       Regards, Patrick

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Padovan
Interlibrary Loan Associate    
             
Timberland Regional Library     Voice:   360-943-5001   
415 Airdustrial Way SW            FAX:   360-586-6838
Olympia, WA  98501-5799        e-mail:   ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us
------------------------------------------------------------------------   

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 mbittner@juno.com wrote:

> Rimell speculated about the "simulated fabric" on the Pfalz and SSW
> releases from Toko.  He thought it was odd that a "new tool" would have
> the simulation.  So, he thought maybe Toko did this to help adhesion with
> the lozenge.  He mentioned that once the lozenge was on, the "effect" was
> gone.
> 
> 
> Matt Bittner
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> 
> 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:10:23 -0500
From: "Bittner, Matthew (KTR) ~U" <BITTNERM@stratcom.af.mil>
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" <wwi>
Subject: MoS Type I
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=USSTRATCOM%l=J2-J5HUB-U-980430201023Z-8441@emshub-u.stratcom.af.mil>

I was perusing the MoS Datafile - as well as looking at the cutaway
drawing in AEQ #9 - and one thing occured to me.  The Type I (and Type
V, for that matter) cockpit had to be different than a Type N.  Why?
Because the Type N used either a Hotchkiss or Lewis gun (magazine and
drum fed, respectively) while the Type I used a Vickers belt fed.  So,
there had to be a difference in the forward cockpit.

There's an extremely clear photo of a Russian Type I in the Datafile
(page 27, photo 57) that could help, but I can't make anything out.
Anybody have any hints, here?

Does the Flashback/Eduard address this, or just keep the original Type N
cockpit pieces?

Anybody else able to help?


Matt Bittner


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:31:09 +0000
From: "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Albatros III OEF
Message-ID: <199804302034.QAA12717@marconi.concentric.net>

>      I assume that the guns on this animal are enclosed in the 
>      fuselage as they are on other AH aeroplanes. What, if any, outside 
>      appearance would the gun muzzles have and where? 

Two long steel blast tubes run from the muzzles of the guns' 
relatively short barrels (they were simple, submachinegun-type, 
blowback weapons) alongside the cylinders to a point immediately aft 
of the plane of the propellor. The tubes are quite visible in 
pictures. 

They were necessary because the combination of a short 
barrel (to keep recoil forces within reason) and a powerful 8-mm 
rifle cartridge produced a fearsome muzzle blast (ground-service 
guns had a prominent conical flash suppressor on the end of the 
barrel). Early engines had a lot of leak-prone, hand-fitted joints in 
them, and they ran rich, so fuel, oil, and even exhaust leaks could 
produce combustible mixtures inside the  plywood engine compartment 
(which was also the cockpit and fuel tank area, since there wasn't a 
firewall as such, if  I remember correctly). Nobody wanted to add  
alot of hot, still-burning propellant to the mix.
Rob
<rojol@concentric.net>
To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1.

Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:44:20 +0000
From: "Rob." <rojo1@concentric.net>
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Toko Sopwith Salamander
Message-ID: <199804302047.QAA23655@newman.concentric.net>

I read somewhere that the Salamander saw some sort of limited service 
when it was hurriedly mobilized for the Chanak Crisis with Turkey in 
1919 or 1920. I don't thik things got to the shots-fired stage, but I 
beliecve aircraft were taken from depot storage and sent out to Asia 
Minor.

To me, it is some ways the quintessential WW1 type, because its 
entire conception reflects the concerns and tactics of that time. 
Yet, loaded down with armor and ammo (2000 rounds, twice the Snipe's 
load) its performance was considered equal to the Snipe's in all 
respects except rate of climb, speed at altitude, and ceiling. 
Low-level speed and handling were good enough, in fact, that the 
Salamander was a close contender for standard, post-war RAF fighter 
(it was rejected because it cost more than the Snipe). Had the war 
continued, it might have been the type that went into production. The 
Germans certainly thought so--hence the development of the 13-mm TuF 
aircraft machinegun.
Rob
<rojol@concentric.net>
To e-mail me, replace the l with the numeral 1.

Visit Chandelle, the Web Journal of Aviation History

------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 1002
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