WWI Digest 823 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 2) Re: Aurora's accuracy by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 3) Latest FSM by mbittner@juno.com 4) Re: Aurora's accuracy by KarrArt 5) Re: Latest FSM by KarrArt 6) Morane-Saulnier J ? by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 7) Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings by "Charles/Linda Duckworth " 8) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? by Charles Hart 9) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? by Charles Hart 10) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? by mbittner@juno.com 11) Red Air Fighter by Graham Nash 12) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? by Kenneth Hagerup 13) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? by "Gerald P. McOsker" 14) Re: Aurora's accuracy by Matthew Zivich 15) WWI Aircraft Industry by Matthew Zivich 16) 1.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU by Dave Watts 17) Re: New Thread/WWI Calendars by KarrArt 18) Re: Aurora's accuracy by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 19) Re: Finding Sites (For OOP books) by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:04:54 -0500 From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings Message-ID: <199712290204.VAA15997@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 12:14 PM 12/28/97 -0500, Charles/Linda Duckworth wrote: >I've looked through a couple sources and can't seem to find what the colors >would be for Gontermann's Albatros D-III in March 1917 when he was with >Jasta 5. > >Any help (guesses, opinions or SWAG's) would be appreciated, Charlie Don't know how accurate they were, but there was an article in Aviation History awhile ago that had a lot of pictures...some in color. I don't have the issue off hand, but you might be able to find it on their web site. Meanwhile, I'll see if I cut out the article. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:31:07 -0500 From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy Message-ID: <199712290231.VAA16087@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 01:39 PM 12/28/97 -0500, Matthew Zivich wrote: >I just settled for rounding off the >tips of the low. wing in the Pfalz kit. But it did cross my mind to use >other craft's wings, such as the Jny, for conversions of another kind. >I'm still looking for an easy conversion of wings for an Alb. D-II as >some other members are doing. I'm trying to think of that old saying >something like "Laziness is the Mother of Invention"...or some such thing. Matt Although I never tried it, I thought that the SMER Spad-7 wings might be a good starting point. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:15:29 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Latest FSM Message-ID: <19971228.211530.4550.0.mbittner@juno.com> The latest FSM came in, and although the WW1 content is slight, I want to say "Great Job" to Robert on his BE2. Beautiful, albeit a bit big. :-) Seriously, great job, Robert. Plus, the next issue will deal with WW1 lozenge. I wonder who did this, and just how good it is? Was the list consulted? Who knows, I guess we'll find out next month. Also, watch for an article on the folks here in our local club. :-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:17:18 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy Message-ID: In a message dated 97-12-28 21:30:50 EST, you write: << Although I never tried it, I thought that the SMER Spad-7 wings might be a good starting point. Mike Muth >> One thing I'm going to get around to in the new year (NOT a resolution- I don't do those) is make set of notes that show what wings can be substituted for others.I like scratch building but I hate making wings!There are several cases where the match is almost perfect- but I never write these things down. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:25:42 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest FSM Message-ID: <7050506f.34a71838@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-28 22:18:04 EST, you write: << The latest FSM came in, and although the WW1 content is slight, I want to say "Great Job" to Robert on his BE2. Beautiful, albeit a bit big. :-) Seriously, great job, Robert. Plus, the next issue will deal with WW1 lozenge. I wonder who did this, and just how good it is? Was the list consulted? Who knows, I guess we'll find out next month. Also, watch for an article on the folks here in our local club. :-) Matt Bittner >> Thank you very much! That came out of nowhere- I'd forgotten that I'd even submitted the thing. Yeah- anybody out there on the list know anything about the upcoming FSM lozenge piece? Any secret collaborators? FSM has done couple of articles dealing with lozenge but it's been many years. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:52:02 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Morane-Saulnier J ? Message-ID: <199712290452.AA14568@ednet1.orednet.org> Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"? Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't list a "J". General impressions? Is this one worth while trying to hunt down? Cheers and all, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "All generalizations are dangerous, even this one." Alexandre Dumas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:11:51 -0800 From: "Charles/Linda Duckworth " To: Subject: Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings Message-ID: <199712290511.XAA20062@mail.primary.net> Mike, appreciate the assistance, Charlie ---------- > From: Mary-Ann/Michael > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings > Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 6:05 PM > > At 12:14 PM 12/28/97 -0500, Charles/Linda Duckworth wrote: > >I've looked through a couple sources and can't seem to find what the colors > >would be for Gontermann's Albatros D-III in March 1917 when he was with > >Jasta 5. > > > >Any help (guesses, opinions or SWAG's) would be appreciated, Charlie > Don't know how accurate they were, but there was an article in Aviation > History awhile ago that had a lot of pictures...some in color. I don't have > the issue off hand, but you might be able to find it on their web site. > Meanwhile, I'll see if I cut out the article. > Mike Muth > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:30:46 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? Message-ID: >Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from >a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"? > >Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that >this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what >is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't >list a "J". > >General impressions? Is this one worth while trying >to hunt down? > > >Cheers and all, > > > >-- > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org I have this kit. It is indeed a Morane Saulnier Type I. These are hard to find but are worth seeking out. It looks as though it will build up into a nice model. To read a review of this kit surf on over to: http://www.cris.com/~Rojo1/tiemens.html Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:44:37 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? Message-ID: >Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from >a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"? > >Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that >this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what >is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't >list a "J". > >General impressions? Is this one worth while trying >to hunt down? > > >Cheers and all, > > > >-- > Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org Related to the above, I found the following e-mail message in my archive. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu <<<<>>>>>> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:55:57 -0400 Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Originator: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Sender: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Precedence: bulk From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Morane-Saulnier kit? X-Comment: WWI Modeling Discussion List Status: The following ad appears in this month's edition of KCC: Sell: 1/72 Marane-Saulnier "I" injection-molded and very accurate bagged kit w/o decals but with excellent instructions. Can also be built as the "N" model. $6.90 + pp. Joeseph Francesco, 19 Valley View Road, Verona, NJ 07044. 201-239-7682. I know nothing about this kit or Mr. Francesco and am just passing the information along. Still, if you are into teeny-tiny scale French aircraft, you can hardly go far wrong for the price. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org <<<<>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 04:32:10 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? Message-ID: <19971229.043211.4294.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:00:00 -0500 bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) writes: >Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from >a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"? > >Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that >this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what >is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't >list a "J". > >General impressions? Is this one worth while trying >to hunt down? As Charles has said, this is a "must have" kit, especially if you build 1/72nd. Although it's not as simple as everyone makes it out to be, it can be made into a Type N, a lot easier than the Revell Type N can. Hopefully, one that I will get to in the New Year. Yea, right...;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:32:57 -0800 From: Graham Nash To: wwi Subject: Red Air Fighter Message-ID: <199712291223.AA03696@egate2.citicorp.com> Yes, I know it's MvR again, but I thought I'd let you know that http://www.wtj.com is 'serialising' 'The Red Air Fighter' in a similar manner to their 'Fighting the Flying Circus'. Enjoy (or not)! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:27:14 -0600 From: Kenneth Hagerup To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? Message-ID: <34A7A532.4FF8@prodigy.net> > >Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that > >this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what > >is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't > >list a "J". > > > >General impressions? Is this one worth while trying > >to hunt down? I got my last two Type Is from NKR Models of Australia. The price was A$5 less 20% sales tax, times the .65 Austalian-US exchange rate. At less than $3.00 US, these have to be the best WWI bargain. The kits I got from NKR also came with a set of Propagateam decals, much nicer than the completely unusable ones in the kit I got in the US. NKR Models are on the web. I don't remember the URL, but there is a link at mt site at http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/4992 . Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:57:29 -0400 From: "Gerald P. McOsker" To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ? Message-ID: Bill inquires- Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from >a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"? > >Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that >this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? I have it in front of me- the heading seems to make it a J but think that is a stylized Cyrillic I- In fct in the text of the note it refers to the Morane-I- Nice molding- no decals- I'll leave it to M. Bittner our resident Morane maven- Cheers Gerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:22:12 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Dec 1997, Riordan and Michelle Goodwin wrote: > Matthew Zivich wrote: > > > > I just "corrected" the aforementioned wing fairing on a (Glencoe/ Aurora) Pfalz D-III into a D-IIIa. > > Ah, but did you also tweak the nose and replace the empennage a la > Rimell? If you meant flatten the spinner's tip, well, no I didn't. I've noticed in alot of pictures of Pfalz D-III's some have the vented spinner while others don't. And yes, I enlarged the elevator plane and shortened the compression/axle plane but kept the same width. I also resculpted the rudder to represent a canvas covered plane. Finally I added three vent holes to the forward top engine cowling, & vent blisters on nose port & starboard sides. Also redid the exhaust & engine & added more side cowling. Some of this may not be entirely "kosher", but I wanted my D-IIIa to be as different as possible from my old Aurora D-III which by the way, underwent some changes of its own: buried guns in fuselage, rudder to top elevator struts, vent blisters, etc. In above comments I don't know if you meant the spinner or the fuselage nose itself, but in any case the Glencoe spin/prop was a disaster..worthless. I ended up using a spinner from a 1/72 Airfix Alb. DV which worked out perfectly. Matt Z > > Riordan > -- > --------------------------------------- > This e-mail has been brought to you by > - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - > ***************************** > Great Holiday Gift Ideas at > Jewels of the Silk Road > http://www.silkroadjewels.com > ***************************** > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:34:10 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: WWI Aircraft Industry Message-ID: Are there any members who have become aware of the technical developments of the German aircraft industry, in particular, during WWI and the subsequent influences upon the postwar commercial design industry as espoused by the leading exponents of the Bauhaus, Marcel Breuer and Walter Gropius? I couldn't help but make some associations between the two subjects as I became more and more familiar with such techniques as welded steel rods as in Fokkers, and formed plywood as in Albatroses. Not to mention stretched canvas over metal rods as one might see in some furniture design from the postwar period. If the sequence of influence was so, war industry to Bauhaus design, it would be an interesting turn around. We are already familiar with the purported influence of the French Post-Impressionist, Georges Seurat's Pointillism (Divisionism in UK) upon lozenge camouflage. Matthew Z ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:49:01 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: 1.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971229164901.007d3100@192.168.0.5> I am working on an article on the development and production of the 08 and 08/15 SPANDAUS. I have observed over 50 examples, but need to know if anyone has access to make observations of a example. If anyone wants detailed information on the guns, (much more than the mini data file on Spandau), contact me. By the way, I have some insights on the guns that were mounted on the "Red Baron's" Dr.I, on that fatefull day in April, 1918. Happy Hoidays, Dave Watts ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:45:30 EST From: KarrArt To: wwi Subject: Re: New Thread/WWI Calendars Message-ID: <1aec91df.34a819fc@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-28 10:33:34 EST, you write: << WWI airplane calendar. A few WWII Warbird and a "Biplanes" one. but nothing for WWI aviation. I haven't seen one anywhere except for one year when a friend of mine got me one from the museum in San Diego. Anyone know of any??? Are we missing an opportunity??? Mike Muth >> Geez, I wish. The old C&C U.S.A. put out a calender for a couple of years- this was WAY back. I didn't know the San Diego Museum had done one. If I ever stumble across a few thousand spare dollars I'll do my own! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:53:45 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy Message-ID: <34A829F9.644E@ricochet.net> Matthew Zivich wrote: the fuselage nose itself Rimell wrote a comprehensive article on correcting the Aurora kit in the '70s, and he noted the lower fuselage nose is too deep, and so removed 1/16" from both lower mating surface before joining to alter the profile. >but in any case the Glencoe spin/prop was a disaster..worthless. I ended up using a spinner from a 1/72 Airfix Alb. DV which worked out perfectly. After trying the spinner from a Heller Bf-109B, I ended up using the tip of a drop tank from a Revell 1/32 Harrier. Still haven't finished my Pfalz. Good luck, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:41:28 -0500 From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Finding Sites (For OOP books) Message-ID: <199712300041.TAA18452@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 04:35 AM 12/12/97 -0500, Graham Nash wrote: >A recent missive from Sandy, revealed a web-site with a number of quite >rare WW1 aviation books for sale. > >Given the state of the various Web seachers (poor-imho) would the list >members be kind enough to send details of useful sites they have located >in their Web travels? Graham I ordered one of the Biggles books from this guy. He took cc and arranged for the book to be sent from Scotland. I got it 5 days after I ordered it. His letterhead says he specializes in "materials by and about T.E. Lawrence." Denis McDonnell, Bookseller : http://www.denismcd.com Fax: 717-253-6786 e-mail: dmd@ptd.net HTH Mike Muth ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 823 *********************