WWI Digest 818 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin 2) Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Bob Pearson 3) Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Hirohisa Ozaki 4) Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Bob Pearson 5) Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Bob Pearson 6) The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Hirohisa Ozaki 7) Re: The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Bob Pearson 8) Help on a book by "Chris Banyai-Riepl" 9) Re: Help on a book by Bob Pearson 10) Re: Help on a book by "Sandy Adam" 11) Fw: Help on a book by "Sandy Adam" 12) Happy Christmas by Franco Poloni 13) Happy Holidays by "Leonard Endy" 14) Happy Holidays by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 15) On Christmas Day in the Morning by Shane Weier 16) Re: Happy Holidays by "Jim Lyzun" 17) Re: Help on a book by GRBroman 18) Re: Happy Holidays by Matthew Zivich 19) Season Greetings to all by "Charles/Linda Duckworth " 20) Re: On Christmas Day in the Morning by huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) 21) Back home & Happy Holidays by Carlos Valdes 22) Re: Happy Holidays by Alberto Rada 23) Re: The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa by Hirohisa Ozaki ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:20:49 -0800 From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <34A08DA1.4B66@ricochet.net> Hirohisa Ozaki wrote: > > Sorry, I don't remember details of marking. > Decals for one aircraft, fire-flame pattern with black "5" in red circle. Lozenge decals included? -- --------------------------------------- This e-mail has been brought to you by - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - ***************************** Great Holiday Gift Ideas at Jewels of the Silk Road http://www.silkroadjewels.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:30:33 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <04303389213074@KAIEN.COM> Riordan, Sorry no lozenge decals in the CL.II kit. Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:25:43 -0500 > > Hirohisa Ozaki wrote: > > > > Sorry, I don't remember details of marking. > > Decals for one aircraft, fire-flame pattern with black "5" in red circle. > > Lozenge decals included? > > > -- > --------------------------------------- > This e-mail has been brought to you by > - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin - > ***************************** > Great Holiday Gift Ideas at > Jewels of the Silk Road > http://www.silkroadjewels.com > ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:35:54 +0900 From: Hirohisa Ozaki To: wwi Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <199712240437.NAA02711@zoo.miln.mei.co.jp> >Lozenge decals included? No. BTW, I have a query about Halb.C.II. Any side-view plans shows small buldge on centaer of fuselage underside. The wire-ress antenna with mass-balance wait can be looked on there in early machine photograph. What is this? Hiro. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:10:48 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <05104884513128@KAIEN.COM> Hiro, According to the CL.II Datafile, the dome you refer to is the cover over the dynamo. If the dyanamo was removed than a flat plate was fitted instead of the dome. Regards, Bob PEarson ---------- > From: Hirohisa Ozaki > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:41:25 -0500 > > >Lozenge decals included? > No. > > BTW, I have a query about Halb.C.II. > Any side-view plans shows small buldge on centaer of fuselage underside. > The wire-ress antenna with mass-balance wait can be looked on there in > early machine photograph. > What is this? > > Hiro. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:25:20 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <05252027813174@KAIEN.COM> Whoops, thought that seemed wrong The dynamo cover is on the fuselage side, while the dome on the bottom most likely is for the end of the control stick which is seen to extend below the fuselage on many aircraft types - must be getting near to nap-time. ---------- > Hiro, > > According to the CL.II Datafile, the dome you refer to is the cover over the > dynamo. If the dyanamo was removed than a flat plate was fitted instead of > the dome. > > Regards, > Bob PEarson > > ---------- > > From: Hirohisa Ozaki > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: Pegasus Halberstadt Cl.IIa > > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:41:25 -0500 > > > > >Lozenge decals included? > > No. > > > > BTW, I have a query about Halb.C.II. > > Any side-view plans shows small buldge on centaer of fuselage underside. > > The wire-ress antenna with mass-balance wait can be looked on there in > > early machine photograph. > > What is this? > > > > Hiro. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:24:05 +0900 From: Hirohisa Ozaki To: wwi Subject: The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <199712240525.OAA02904@zoo.miln.mei.co.jp> Bob, >According to the CL.II Datafile, the dome you refer to is the cover over the >dynamo. If the dyanamo was removed than a flat plate was fitted instead of >the dome. No, "dynamo" which you said is port side of nose, right? The buldge which I said is on underneath of fuselage. >> The wire-ress antenna with mass-balance wait can be looked on there in >> early machine photograph. ~~~~weight, sorry. Hiro. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:52:30 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <05523078213255@KAIEN.COM> Hiro, The wireless antenna was fed through a tube below the observor's cockpit and featured an egg shaped weight on the end of it - this is visible in several photos in the datafile (ie pages 4, 5, 22) - while the domed cover is further forward, just ahead of the rear undercarriage legs. So we are back to wondering just what is under the dome? Regards, Bob ---------- > From: Hirohisa Ozaki > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 00:29:40 -0500 > > Bob, > > >According to the CL.II Datafile, the dome you refer to is the cover over the > >dynamo. If the dyanamo was removed than a flat plate was fitted instead of > >the dome. > No, "dynamo" which you said is port side of nose, right? > The buldge which I said is on underneath of fuselage. > > >> The wire-ress antenna with mass-balance wait can be looked on there in > >> early machine photograph. ~~~~weight, sorry. > > Hiro. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 00:27:40 -0800 From: "Chris Banyai-Riepl" To: Subject: Help on a book Message-ID: <01bd1045$cc9beac0$9f4ffbce@herper> Hi, I just got back from my Christmas trip up to Seattle, and on my travels there I came across a book that caught my eye. I believe it was called British Planes 1914-1918 or something similar and was marked as "Out Of Print". It was also marked $95. I was only able to quickly glance at it, but it looked very thorough. Is this a comprehensive tome on all the British aircraft, and is it worth the $95? As I get more and more into WWI, I am looking for good, definitive volumes to add to my reference collection. If there is no other book similar to this, I think I can convince the wife to the $95 price tag. Any helpful pointers? Thanks! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 02:04:04 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Help on a book Message-ID: <10040427613550@KAIEN.COM> Chris, YES, YES, YES, YES. If you don't want it I'll have it. No wait a minute . . . . . .it isn't worth a penny over $5 . . . . . . where did you say that store was? If this is British Aircraft 1914-1918 by J M Bruce circa 195something-or-other (reprinted in the 60s I believe) it contains pretty well every British design from the First World War. Some of the writing has bees superseded since, but it is still an excellent reference to have. This was one of the four or five books that inspired me 25 years ago until it was stolen out of my local library by some fiend. Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- > From: "Chris Banyai-Riepl" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Help on a book > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:30:47 -0500 > > Hi, > I just got back from my Christmas trip up to Seattle, and on my travels > there I came across a book that caught my eye. I believe it was called > British Planes 1914-1918 or something similar and was marked as "Out Of > Print". It was also marked $95. I was only able to quickly glance at it, > but it looked very thorough. Is this a comprehensive tome on all the > British aircraft, and is it worth the $95? As I get more and more into WWI, > I am looking for good, definitive volumes to add to my reference collection. > If there is no other book similar to this, I think I can convince the wife > to the $95 price tag. Any helpful pointers? Thanks! > > Chris > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:23:50 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: Help on a book Message-ID: <199712241026.KAA00338@beryl.sol.co.uk> > I just got back from my Christmas trip up to Seattle, and on my travels > there I came across a book that caught my eye. I believe it was called > British Planes 1914-1918 or something similar and was marked as "Out Of > Print". It was also marked $95. I was only able to quickly glance at it, > but it looked very thorough. Is this a comprehensive tome on all the > British aircraft, and is it worth the $95? ...... > > Chris > What you may have there Chris could be "British Aeroplanes 1914-1918" by JM Bruce, published by Putnam's back in about 1957, which is probably THE definitive source on the subject. The first edition has a blue paper cover, later editions a shiny cover with an Avro 504 picture. This book is rare and usually very expensive - there is one available in the UK that I know of for 145GBP (about 240USD). I wouldn't pay this for it but eventually got Owen Thetford's old copy for which I paid 100GBP (165USD) and thought I was doing well. If it is this book at 95USD you have a very good bargain. The book is of course now quite old and the photographs of the aircraft are usually standard views - no interior shots etc. But the great value is in its comprehensiveness. You will find pretty well every type detailed here. Somebody asked about colours for the Push-Proj recently and I immediately went to BA14-18 where I found a series of photos and description including where the 30 examples all went to. There is a tendency to write off a lot of the older tomes in the light of new research and new sources emerging from Eastern Europe and many of the recent volumes are excellent. But remember when Jack Bruce wrote this book in the mid-fifties, most of the Great War pilots, designers and manufacturers were still alive. He could (and did) go along to Tommy Sopwith for example and ask the man himself the answer to any questions that arose re his aircraft. Oh that we could send an email to Thomas Octave Morse now! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:47:48 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Fw: Help on a book Message-ID: <199712241050.KAA00807@beryl.sol.co.uk> > > > I just got back from my Christmas trip up to Seattle, and on my travels > > there I came across a book that caught my eye. I believe it was called > > British Planes 1914-1918 or something similar and was marked as "Out Of > > Print". It was also marked $95. I was only able to quickly glance at > it, > > but it looked very thorough. Is this a comprehensive tome on all the > > British aircraft, and is it worth the $95? ...... > > > > Chris > > > > What you may have there Chris could be "British Aeroplanes 1914-1918" by JM > Bruce, published by Putnam's back in about 1957, which is probably THE > definitive source on the subject. > The first edition has a blue paper cover, later editions a shiny cover with > an Avro 504 picture. > > This book is rare and usually very expensive - there is one available in > the UK that I know of for 145GBP (about 240USD). I wouldn't pay this for it > but eventually got Owen Thetford's old copy for which I paid 100GBP > (165USD) and thought I was doing well. > > If it is this book at 95USD you have a very good bargain. > > The book is of course now quite old and the photographs of the aircraft are > usually standard views - no interior shots etc. But the great value is in > its comprehensiveness. You will find pretty well every type detailed here. > Somebody asked about colours for the Push-Proj recently and I immediately > went to BA14-18 where I found a series of photos and description including > where the 30 examples all went to. > > There is a tendency to write off a lot of the older tomes in the light of > new research and new sources emerging from Eastern Europe and many of the > recent volumes are excellent. But remember when Jack Bruce wrote this book > in the mid-fifties, most of the Great War pilots, designers and > manufacturers were still alive. He could (and did) go along to Tommy > Sopwith for example and ask the man himself the answer to any questions > that arose re his aircraft. Oh that we could send an email to Thomas Octave > Morse now! > > Sandy PS Sorry if you got this twice - it bounced back first time. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:52:23 GMT From: Franco Poloni To: wwi Subject: Happy Christmas Message-ID: <199712212352.XAA26486@lo.itline.it> * , _/^\_ < > * /.-.\ * * `/&\` * ,@.*;@, /_o.I %_\ * * (`'--:o(_@; /`;--.,__ `') * ;@`o % O,*`'`&\ * (`'--)_@ ;o %'()\ * /`;--._`''--._O'@; /&*,()~o`;-.,_ `""`) * /`,@ ;+& () o*`;-';\ (`""--.,_0 +% @' &()\ /-.,_ ``''--....-'`) * * /@%;o`:;'--,.__ __.'\ ;*,&(); @ % &^;~`"`o;@(); * /(); o^~; & ().o@*&`;&%O\ `"="==""==,,,.,="=="==="` __.----.(\-''#####---...___...-----._ '` \)_`"""""` .--' ') o( )_-\ `"""` ` BUONE FESTE Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Franco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:40:08 GMT From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi Subject: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <34a33993.1130393@legend.firstsaga.com> Just a short note to wish all list members a Happy Holiday season.=20 December is a busy month around this house. We celebrate my birthday, my daughter was married on Dec 2d, my wife and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary on Dec 23, my son made it home for Xmas and I found out I am going to be a grandfather! And through all of that I always seem to remember the kindness and good spirits that the members of this list always evoke. I have yet to come across any other mail-list where the comraderie is even close to this list. You all have my greatest wishes for the happiest holidays whatever they be. Len Endy lfendy@firstsaga.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:03:44 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <199712240433.WAA00760@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> I, too, wish everyone a Merry Chistmas or Happy Hanukkah, and a pleasant New Year. I enjoy reading the discussions on this list. Although they become heated at times, we all remain civil towards one another. Too bad the rest of the world isn't as understanding, but then we all seem to share one common interest. Looking forward to learning more (and asking more stupid questions:-) about WWI in the following year! Paul A. Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:57:44 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: On Christmas Day in the Morning Message-ID: <199712241411.AAA06034@mimmon.mim.com.au> G'Day all, Christmas has come to Australia ( just) so.... Merry Christmas to those of you who believe, Happy holidays to those who don't, commiserations to those having to work and thanks to every man jack of you for giving each other the priceless gift of friendship. Enjoy yourselves ! Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:18:43 -0500 From: "Jim Lyzun" To: wwi Subject: Re: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <34A119C3.310@baynet.net> >From a major lurker, In spite of the number of newsgroups I subscribe to this still remains one of the best for information and good will. All the best to all for the season. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:38:15 EST From: GRBroman To: wwi Subject: Re: Help on a book Message-ID: <16de9046.34a1488a@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-24 03:29:38 EST, you write: << As I get more and more into WWI, I am looking for good, definitive volumes to add to my reference collection. If there is no other book similar to this, I think I can convince the wife to the $95 price tag. Any helpful pointers? Thanks! >> Chris, if you can tell me the name of the store, perhaps I can tell you if it was " overpriced" or not. You may wish to try "warbooks@aol.com" (Articles of War in Skokie, Il) They generally have access to out of print books and the prices are usually quite reasonable. HTH, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:52:48 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Happy Holidays Message-ID: Happy Holidays to All List Members! A special thanks to Chas. Hart for suggesting this list to me, and another special thanks to Bob Pearson & others for kindly supplying some special visual information to me. _ { | One of the New Guys on the Block, ||+| \\ || | Matthew Zivich...................... . ---====(o)|OX // || | ||+| {_| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:55:35 -0800 From: "Charles/Linda Duckworth " To: "ww1list" Subject: Season Greetings to all Message-ID: <199712242154.PAA01058@mail.primary.net> Wanted to thank all of you for help and insite to our hobby this past year, wishing all of you a great holiday season and the best for the coming new year. Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:26:31 -0600 (CST) From: huggins@onramp.net (John Huggins) To: wwi Subject: Re: On Christmas Day in the Morning Message-ID: I agree with Shane and pass his comments on. This has to be one of the best groups on the net. If the other groups could come half as close to existing in harmony as we do, the world would have to be a much better placce. >Merry Christmas to those of you who believe, Happy holidays to those who >don't, commiserations to those having to work and thanks to every man >jack of you for giving each other the priceless gift of friendship. I found the following on another news group, but thought it said a lot. > > Dedicated to all those that serve. > > > > The Night Before Christmas > > > > 'Twas the night before Christmas, he lived all alone > > In a one bedroom house made of plaster and stone. > > I had come down the chimney with presents to give, > > And to see just who in this home did live. > > I looked all about, a strange sight did I see, > > No tinsel, no presents, not even a tree. > > No stocking by the mantle, just boots filled with sand, > > on the wall hung pictures of far distant lands. > > With medals and badges, awards of all kinds, > > a sober thought came through my mind. > > For this house was different, it was dark and dreary, > > I found the house of a soldier, once I could see clearly. > > The soldier lay sleeping, silent, alone, > > curled upon the floor in this one bedroom home. > > The face was so gentle, the room in such disorder, > > Not how I pictured a United States soldier. > > Was this the hero of whom I just read? > > Curled up on a poncho, the floor for a bed? > > I realized the families I saw on this night, > > owed their lives to these soldiers, who were willing to fight. > > Soon round the world the children would play, > > And grownups would celebrate a bright Christmas day. > > They all enjoyed freedom each month of the year, > > Because of the soldiers, like the one lying here. > > I couldn't help wonder how many lay alone, > > on a cold Christmas Eve, in a land far from home. > > The very thought brought a tear to my eye, > > I dropped to my knees and started to cry. > > The soldier awakened and I heard a rough voice, > > "Santa, don't cry, this life is my choice; > > I fight for freedom, I don't ask for more, > > My life is my God, my country, my Corps." > > The soldier rolled over and drifted to sleep, > > I couldn't control it, I started to weep. > > I kept watch for hours, so silent and still > > And we both shivered from the cold night's chill. > > I didn't want to leave on that cold, dark night > > This Guardian of Honor so willing to fight. > > The soldier rolled over, with a voice soft and pure, > > whispered, "Carry on, Santa, > > It's Christmas Day, All is secure." > > One look at my watch and I knew he was right > > Merry Christmas, my friend, and to all a Good Night! > > > > -Author Unknown Also, I will be printing the buttons over the holidays and will have them in the mail early in Jan. If there are any of you who have not sent me your name and address yet and would like to have one, it is not too late. Happy holidays John, Pat and the Pugs. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:59:56 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Back home & Happy Holidays Message-ID: <34A1A1FC.38D9@conted.gatech.edu> Well, I'm back home after a great trip to the UK. My wife and I had a grand time, even if we (OK, I) didn't get to do everything we had hoped to. So now I can happily say that I have finally visited the Imperial War Museum and the RAF Museum--at which several rolls of film were expended--and the HMS Belfast (among other attractions) as well as shopped at Hannants. If the photos, especially of the beautifully restored D.VII, turn out OK I'll send some to Al to post on his page. I of course picked up a few (well, maybe more than a few) items related to aviation; only one of these was a kit, however--the Flashback E.III--as I didn't find anything else really new or exciting at Hannants (the WWI Toko kits are still not out yet). The rest, aside from some posters, pins, and repro wings, was made up of books. I got some recent Datafiles to fill out my collection (but still no D.VII Special, darn it!) and a trio of new books: the RNAS tome from Hikoki (signed by the author, an employee of the IWM, where I bought it; it looks like a must-have for fans of this service), Norman Franks' latest on MvR's last flight (VERY detailed and probably sure to be controversial), and Peter Kilduff's much-anticipated history of JGI. These last two were a nice surprise as they were not expected until next year, at least in the States; they came from a shop near Charing Cross Rd. and Covent Garden I just stumbled across called Motor Books--highly recommended. I never did make it to the Aviation Bookshop, but maybe that's a good thing . . . My thanks again to all who gave me information about places to see. London is a great destination and a city everyone with an interest in history should visit at least once (our day trip to Oxfordshire was also wonderful). And even in December the weather wasn't too bad, and the food was (dare I say surprisingly?) good! Finally, let me wish all list members and their families a very happy holiday season. It's good to be back with you all. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:51:42 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971224185142.006ed2ec@pop.true.net> ! ! A grandfather ! ! MAZELTOV SALUDOS Alberto At 08:46 AM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >Just a short note to wish all list members a Happy Holiday season.=20 > >December is a busy month around this house. We celebrate my birthday, >my daughter was married on Dec 2d, my wife and I celebrated our 25th >wedding anniversary on Dec 23, my son made it home for Xmas and I >found out I am going to be a grandfather! > >And through all of that I always seem to remember the kindness and >good spirits that the members of this list always evoke. I have yet >to come across any other mail-list where the comraderie is even close >to this list. > >You all have my greatest wishes for the happiest holidays whatever >they be. > > >Len Endy >lfendy@firstsaga.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 09:36:31 +0900 From: Hirohisa Ozaki To: wwi Subject: Re: The buldge of Halberstadt Cl.IIa Message-ID: <199712250037.JAA01264@zoo.miln.mei.co.jp> Bob, >The wireless antenna was fed through a tube below the observor's cockpit and >featured an egg shaped weight on the end of it - this is visible in several >photos in the datafile (ie pages 4, 5, 22) - while the domed cover is >further forward, just ahead of the rear undercarriage legs. Yes! The dome which I said is in there. This answer is nice Christmas gift for me. Thank you. This query may be a simple and basicaly, but anyone couldn't answer when I posted same query before. Merry Christmas to ALL, Hiro. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 818 *********************