WWI Digest 764 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) C&C cd by KarrArt@aol.com 2) Re: Aurora smell by KarrArt@aol.com 3) Re: C&C cd by Andrew and Rebecca Hall 4) Re: Aurora smell by KarrArt@aol.com 5) Re: C&C USA CD by "Rob" 6) Re: C&C cd by "Rob" 7) Re: C&C USA CD by mbittner@juno.com 8) Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... by mbittner@juno.com 9) Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... by KarrArt@aol.com 10) Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... by KarrArt@aol.com 11) Re: C&C cd by KarrArt@aol.com 12) RE: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask by Joey Valenciano 13) RE: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask by Joey Valenciano 14) Re: Aurora smell/Off topic reminiscence by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 15) Re: Roland CII part 1 by David Solosy 16) Re: Toko kits by kevinkim@interlog.com (barrett) 17) Re: Re: C&C USA CD by JimAlley@aol.com 18) Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 19) Re: Toko kits by mbittner@juno.com 20) "Steve Shutt" : Fokker DVII----Ernst Udet by mbittner@juno.com 21) Re: Aurora smell by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 22) Re: Albatros G.IIIs over Macedonia/C&C cd by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 23) Finally back on the list by "Charles/Linda Duckworth " 24) Re: Toko kits by Charles Hart 25) Re: Toko kits by Carlos Valdes 26) Re: Toko kits by mbittner@juno.com 27) Re: Toko kits by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 28) Library Bulletin by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 29) Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... by KarrArt@aol.com 30) Re: Library Bulletin by "Tom Werner Hansen" 31) Latest Norman Franks Release Spotted by kevinkim@interlog.com (barrett) 32) RE: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... by Pedro Nuno Soares 33) Re: Latest Norman Franks Release Spotted by Carlos Valdes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:46:01 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: C&C cd Message-ID: <971114214600_1138189776@mrin83.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-14 15:24:13 EST, Janah@worldnet.att.net writes: << What an inspired idea! Fraught with legalities though. "Who owns the rights?" is the question. Would Cross & Cockade (GB) have rights here? What about the Over the Front group? The authors might be the least of your problems, since as I recall they didn't get paid for their articals. And if the magazines are in the public domain...how the hell do you protect an investment in the CD? Come on - we must have a lawyer in the group????? John >> Yes Yes Yes-any lawyers?any computer freakoids with practical knowledge if the legalities were worked out?? C&C journal on CD would not only allow this material to be seen by more people, it would also take up much less room! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:52:08 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora smell Message-ID: <971114215207_-1941703501@mrin79> In a message dated 97-11-14 13:25:06 EST, joeyval@philonline.com.ph writes: << But I never was able to lay my hands on one of their WWI kits. I don't recall them being available over here. I did have an Aurora catalog though. And I would spend many a time pouring over the WWI box art. Remeber the Fokker D.VII box art? They had the plane in flames. What a way to market the kit! >> Aurora had some strange yet great box art.Jo Kotula did most of these illustrations.The later ones such as the Sopwith Triplane and Fokker E III had almost psychedelic skyscapes. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:06:32 -0800 From: Andrew and Rebecca Hall To: wwi Subject: Re: C&C cd Message-ID: <346D1FC8.6746@phoenix.net> Assuming all copyright issues could be dealt with (when I hypothesize, I hypothesize BIG), one possibility would be to convert the issues to PDF (e.g., Adobe Acrobat) format. That requires special (and expensive) software, but it would allow creation of an electronic document that matched, page-for-page, the original. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a lot of separate text files and loose JPG/GIF files comprising every issue. PDF is a bit of headache sometimes -- requires separate viewing software, etc. -- but it sometimes is the better way to go. At the medical center where I work, all the online policy manuals are done in PDF, because for legal reasons they have to match *exactly* the official, paper version. Maintaining the original format and layout (i.e., preserving the integrity of the original paper copy) might also be a positive factor in convincing whoever holds the rights to allow an electronic version. ---------> Andy Hall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:08:25 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora smell Message-ID: <971114220825_-1306006957@mrin43.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-14 05:46:24 EST, mgoodwin@ricochet.net writes: << the Aurora pioneers desrve credit for launching the WW > I bug in many of us. For us youngsters it was Airfix and Revell. Cheers, Riordan >> Shhhh... don't tell Mr. Bittner, but in my childish model building years I made almost all the Revell WW I 1/72 kits.Firecrackers ate most of them.After you got tired of your SPAD,you popped off the front, stuck a cracker down it's gullet, lit the fuse and ran like hell.Please allow me to wallow in one more poignant episode-after seeing the aviation episode of the old CBS WW I series in the mid 60's, a buddy and my own sweet self decided to see if the result of a hydrogen explosion really did give off water vapor.I was 11 and he was 12. We got a quart Pepsi bottle, filled it with some swimming pool acid, dropped in zinc laden gravel and put a balloon over the bottle mouth.After a bit, we had a ballon filled with hydrogen, which we proceded to take outdoors( thank God for that).We poured a puddle of rubbing alcohol on the sidewalk, lit that off and floated our ballon over it.WHUMPF!!!!!! Yes, we obtained an explosion that looked just like an observation balloon going off! And yes, there was a cloud of light mist. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:20:00 +0000 From: "Rob" To: wwi Subject: Re: C&C USA CD Message-ID: <199711150328.WAA10525@cliff.concentric.net> I don't think getting it on CD would be a problem. Scanning and Optical Character Recognition software could probably do the job (not perfectly, but OK). But this would not solve copyright problems, even if you don't charge for it. If there are copyright holders who object, you could still, arguably, be infringing the copyright by distributing copies. Again, it isn't the ultimate legalities, but the cost of litigation that settles these things. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:20:00 +0000 From: "Rob" To: wwi Subject: Re: C&C cd Message-ID: <199711150328.WAA10540@cliff.concentric.net> I'm not a lawyer. But I am a writer and have some experience with copyright. I don't think the CD is a practical proposition. While you could make a case that not keeping the articles in print constitutes lapse of copyright, the litigation could, conceivably, cost alot more than you want to spend, even if you win. Even then, while the old C&C might not have copyright any more, the rights might now have reverted to the authors and/or their estates. You could contact every copyright holder for permission, but it would take a lot of time, effort, and money. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:25:30 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: C&C USA CD Message-ID: <19971114.214341.14374.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:21:19 -0500 Bob Pearson writes: > Perhaps we could do something on our own here instead. Those > with the journals could lend them to those uf us with scanners > to copy as jpegs, this would permit any page to be opened by a > browser (as I seem to recall that some of you are silly enough > to not use Macs, so we shouldn't be tied to just one format). > The result being placed unto a Jaz disc or many Zips and then > copied to CD. I know of a couple of people that have CD burners > and perhaps they may be able to help. Hey, great idea! > One problem with putting 25 1/2 years of journals on one disc is > to find where everything is, especially if each page is a > separate jpeg. One option is the use of a database to find the > relevant article, photo etc - those who have made use of my > article/photo databases may attest to how helpful this is, and > it shouldn't be too hard to add this as well. Another great idea. Go for it, Bob. ;-) Matt Bittner np: Loreena McKennitt, _To Drive The Cold Winter Away_ (most beautiful music) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:22:01 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... Message-ID: <19971114.214341.14374.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:20:21 -0500 Shane Weier writes: > A photo of the C.II interior (#83) in the Datafile clearly shows > the strips, just like rib tapes, and the colour of both strip > and the wood (?) in between is the same. That being so, and > there being (quite definitely) no wood grain showing, I suggest > that the entire interior is doped with *some* colour, and is NOT > wood. I suppose it is possible that the interior has a sheet of > fabric clear doped over it and further strengthened at the wood > joints, in which case the guy from Avions is right, but I'd have > assumed another coloured dope. I leave you to guess the colour, > but exterior colour does not seem impossible given the > simplicity of using just one dope. The latest issue of WW1 Aero (which just came a few days ago) has Peter Grosz talking about how Pfalz did the fuselage on the D.XII. From the inside to the outside: Coarse linen fabric First plywood layer Casein glue layer Second plywood layer Paper tape Since Pfalz started (bascially) manufacturing Roland D.II's, and they kept the "basic" construction techniques that Roland started, I would say a doped linen interior would be close to exact. However, that would only be the sides, and not include the rest of the "structure". Again, this is assuming the early Roland techniques mirrored the later Pfalz ones. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 23:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... Message-ID: <971114233016_902415311@mrin46.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-14 23:12:27 EST, you write: << Basically, this engine is silver crankcase, black cylinders, dark steel camshaft/valves with silver housing at rear of camshaft & silver lagged inlets. There's no exhaust manifold on this example. I don't know how original this colour scheme is. >> In an ancient back issue of WWI Aero, there were partial factory painting instrutions for Mercedes engines and all I recall is that the cylinders were painted gloss black. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... Message-ID: <971115002719_1903935076@mrin52.mail.aol.com> Concerning the Roland interior- it's probably much the same story as Pfalz- who learned their fuselage methods building Roland products under contract.Although impossible to tell the exact color from a black and white photo, some shots in a recent WW I Aero of the C II interior most definately show one shade overall- most likely a light gray Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:35:32 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: C&C cd Message-ID: <971115003531_-1996018317@mrin84.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-14 23:36:22 EST, rojo1@concentric.net writes: << 'm not a lawyer. But I am a writer and have some experience with copyright. I don't think the CD is a practical proposition. While you could make a case that not keeping the articles in print constitutes lapse of copyright, the litigation could, conceivably, cost alot more than you want to spend, even if you win. Even then, while the old C&C might not have copyright any more, the rights might now have reverted to the authors and/or their estates. You could contact every copyright holder for permission, but it would take a lot of time, effort, and money. >> The copyright notice in each issue read "copyright (year) by the Society of WW I Aero Historians"- a non-profit organization. All work was voluntary and no payments were made.Perhaps some other arrangement as a non-profit project. It would be a pitty to see all this material fade away. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:57:37 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: RE: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Message-ID: <199711150657.OAA19483@fiesta.philonline.com.ph> At 09:20 PM 11/14/97 -0500, Shane wrote: > A photo of the C.II interior (#83) in the Datafile clearly shows >the strips, just like rib tapes, and the colour of both strip and the >wood (?) in between is the same. That being so, and there being (quite >definitely) no wood grain showing, I suggest that the entire interior is >doped with *some* colour, and is NOT wood. I suppose it is possible >that the interior has a sheet of fabric clear doped over it and further >strengthened at the wood joints, in which case the guy from Avions is >right, but I'd have assumed another coloured dope. I leave you to guess >the colour, but exterior colour does not seem impossible given the >simplicity of using just one dope. I painted the interior of my Sierra Walfisch a white blue (exterior colour), although I darkened it a bit. I also added the diagonal strips that Shane mentions. It adds interest to the interior. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:57:41 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: RE: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Message-ID: <199711150657.OAA19511@fiesta.philonline.com.ph> At 09:26 PM 11/14/97 -0500, Shane wrote: > There are several other photos, all of which show the same >effect, The wall is exactly the same shade as the framework, which most >probably not e fabric wrapped. > > I'm as sure as I ever get that the interior is *colour* doped >(of course they may have had a big drum of Humbrol 74 ;-) On my model, only the fuselage shell is doped in colour, longerons, interior framework and floor, I did in wood. My line of reasoning was that it was only the fuselage shell that went through this lamination process, and there is a photo in the datafile which shows the framework constructed, the fuselage shell being added later. Aesthetically, the interior looks good to me painted this way. You get to see the framework quite clearly since it's a different colour than the frame. Also, I added non slip strips of masking tape on the observer's floor. I also painted the strips wood. Don't forget to scripe an oval trap door on the floor and a similar oval on the outer fuselage. This, I believe was there for camera work. I cut a slot into one edge of the oval on the floor, suggesting a handhold to make the door easy to lift up. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 23:03:26 -0800 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora smell/Off topic reminiscence Message-ID: <346D493E.2889@ricochet.net> KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > a buddy and my own sweet self decided to > see if the result of a hydrogen explosion really did give off water vapor.I > was 11 and he was 12. We got a quart Pepsi bottle, filled it with some > swimming pool acid, dropped in zinc laden gravel and put a balloon over the > bottle mouth.After a bit, we had a ballon filled with hydrogen, which we > proceded to take outdoors( thank God for that).We poured a puddle of rubbing > alcohol on the sidewalk, lit that off and floated our ballon over > it.WHUMPF!!!!!! Yes, we obtained an explosion that looked just like an > observation balloon going off! And yes, there was a cloud of light mist. Robert, It's a blind luck that any of us little maniacs made it to adulthood. Of course, unlike today, we weren't actually trying to do ourselves or others in by trying to build pipe bombs or shoot each other down in the street. In those days it was just random dangerous fun, like rock fights, bicycle/skateboards stunts, tennis-ball cannons and all manner of fire, rockets & explosives. Those were the days... Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:22:32 +0800 From: David Solosy To: "'WW1 List'" Subject: Re: Roland CII part 1 Message-ID: <01BCF1EB.126A5BA0@user12.argo.net.au> Pedro, I'd be grateful if you could email me the Roland article from"Avions". My email: solosyd@argo.net.au TIA David S ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:31:15 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: Carlos informed us: >If you're interested in these kits, take a look at > > http://www.hannants.co.uk/cgi-bin/page.pl?p=1&d=a&c= > >for the box art of some of the upcoming WWI Toko injected kits. > Carlos Carlos, Had a look. Do you think they're knock-off kits, since, I believe, the subjects have all been released previously? Regardless, I'm excited about the potential here. Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:00:31 -0500 (EST) From: JimAlley@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Re: C&C USA CD Message-ID: <971115080031_177422754@mrin84.mail.aol.com> Bob 'n' all, JPEGs with enough fine detail to read text would probably be huge. Another option is Adobe Acrobat, a cross-platform (Mac/DOS/Windows/UNIX) system that converts a scanned page to a combination of editable text and pictures, preserves font info and layout, and compresses the entire thing. Multipage documents keep their coherance, and documents can be searched just like a database. In fact, indexes can be made for whole collections of documents. In other words, collections of separate Acrobat articles can have their own, built-in databases! The system also has a hot-key system where clicking on a "button" on one page can take you to another page. The Acrobat Reader is free -- anybody can download it. The rest of the Acrobat system is a little pricey, since it was designed primarily for big corporations and government agencies to archive those files that are filling their sub-basements. (I have a review copy for an article I wrote for a magazine.) Even though using the Acrobat system is fairly straightforward, the entire process takes a while per page to scan, spell-check the OCR, etc. I would guess several minutes per page. However, the results would be superior and more useful. I don't have the time to devote to processing very many of them, but I'd be happy to make up some samples for review by anyone who is interested. If someone would like to send me one or more of these journals, I'll give it a try. (The time period between now and the end of the year would be best for me.) Jim Alley 320 East 54th Street Savannah, GA 31405 voice: (912) 234-4304 fax: (912) 234-4231 jimalley@aol.com >Perhaps we could do something on our own here instead. Those with the >journals could lend them to those uf us with scanners to copy as jpegs, this >would permit any page to be opened by a browser (as I seem to recall that >some of you are silly enough to not use Macs, so we shouldn't be tied to >just one format). The result being placed unto a Jaz disc or many Zips and >then copied to CD. I know of a couple of people that have CD burners and >perhaps they may be able to help. >One problem with putting 25 1/2 years of journals on one disc is to find >where everything is, especially if each page is a separate jpeg. One option >is the use of a database to find the relevant article, photo etc - those who >have made use of my article/photo databases may attest to how helpful this >is, and it shouldn't be too hard to add this as well. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:53:52 -0500 (EST) From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... Message-ID: <971115085352_-1273749612@mrin58.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-15 03:41:40 EST, Matt reported: > The latest issue of WW1 Aero (which just came a few days ago) has > Peter Grosz talking about how Pfalz did the fuselage on the > D.XII. From the inside to the outside: > > Coarse linen fabric > First plywood layer > Casein glue layer > Second plywood layer > Paper tape > Hi Guys! The above order is correct, but reversed. Many paper strips were draped over the form, the first layer of ply strips were placed on the form (at the same angle as the paper strips--about 60 degrees to thrust line). Then the glue was added. The paper strips absorbed the glue, so the shell wasn't glued to the form (like wax paper over your Guillows plans). The second layer of strips came next (60 degrees to first). When dry, the assembly was removed and fitted to the interior framework. When both halves were glued and tacked in place, the whole thing was covered in coarse linen and doped with a grey color. Brad strips (to hold shell to framework) were covered with a 1/4" strip of fabric, and the entire shell was doped in silver to fill pores in the coarse fabric. FWIW, a piece of original Pfalz D.XII shell in the possession of P M Grosz (from the Canberra Pfalz restoration) has a thin coat of grey dope or paint on the interior--but it is not known whether the grey was from the Pfalz factory or applied at Canberra at some point. Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:00:37 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: <19971115.080037.8798.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:34:55 -0500 kevinkim@interlog.com (barrett) writes: >Had a look. Do you think they're knock-off kits, since, I believe, the >subjects have all been released previously? Regardless, I'm excited >about the potential here. Well, I'll stride a bit off topic here, just to show something. I have one (and will soon have two) of the Toko Il-2 Shturmovik's. If their WW1 models turn out as great as this kit is, then everybody has nothing to fear - unless their dimensions are off. The Toko Il-2 is a dream, and the wing root is the gem of the whole model. Unfortunately the cockpit is a bit spartan, but you still get more than a Pegasus would supply. FWIW, if anybody is waiting for the AM or Eduard Il-2's to arrive, don't. If Toko had a better distributor, they would knock these other kits off the market. The only thing that AM might have on the Toko is a better interior - but I paid $9 for the Toko Il-2, and with the Braille AM jobs going for around $30, I wouldn't suspect the 1/72nd AM model to be as inexpensive as the Toko one. Sorry, but the Il-2 is another one of my favorite aircraft. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:05:25 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: "Steve Shutt" : Fokker DVII----Ernst Udet Message-ID: <19971115.080925.8798.4.mbittner@juno.com> I received this message this a.m. Please include the original sender in any replies, as he is not subscribed to the list (yet - I'm sending him the FAQ). Matt Bittner np: Loreena McKennitt, _To Drive the Cold Winter Away_: did I already mention how beautiful this disc is? ;-) --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Steve Shutt" To: Subject: Fokker DVII----Ernst Udet Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:45:02 -0800 Message-ID: <199711150627.OAA06476@smtp.asiaonline.net> Matt, I've just seen your models on the net....superb!!!! I got the address from someone as a 'lead', for some information I need regarding Udet"s Fokker DVII. I am trying to get started modelling again, having moved to Hong Kong. Unfortunately all my books are still in the UK, so I'm a bit short on reference material, to say the least. I'm planning to build the Dragon kit in 1/48 th scale, but I seem to remember that there was some debate about the fuselage colouring of this machine, regarding the metal panels around the engine.......black or red? Any information greatly welcomed. Rgds Steve Shutt. --------- End forwarded message ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:47:38 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Aurora smell Message-ID: <199711151547.KAA04479@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 10:14 PM 11/14/97 -0500, KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > >Shhhh... don't tell Mr. Bittner, but in my childish model building years I >made almost all the Revell WW I 1/72 kits.Firecrackers ate most of >them.After you got tired of your SPAD,you popped off the front, stuck a >cracker down it's gullet, lit the fuse and ran like hell My technique for killling off old 1/72 Revell kits was similar. Firecracker went into the cockpit(no detail work then or now). Went to the attic and strung a line to the garage. Put the line between cabane struts. Lit the cracker, let go the plane and watched it slide down the line(very steep angle...learned that by trial and error and hopisehold explosions) and WHAMMO, hit by flak. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:55:24 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Albatros G.IIIs over Macedonia/C&C cd Message-ID: <199711151555.KAA04531@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 08:57 PM 11/13/97 -0500, John & Allison Cyganowski wrote: And if the magazines are in the public domain...how the >hell do you protect an investment in the CD? Come on - we must have a lawyer in the >group????? Yep, there are a couple. Unfortunately, I do mostly criminal law...I guess that means if we screw the project up I could defend us! Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:51:47 -0800 From: "Charles/Linda Duckworth " To: Subject: Finally back on the list Message-ID: <199711151652.KAA22389@mail.primary.net> After a hiatus of several months, am back on the list. Unfortunately work was been demanding due to the merger of the Union Pacific with the Southern Pacific RR's and not a lot of spare time for WWI modeling. Have been able to finish the Eduard Pup and am leaving tomorrow for five days in Texas - plan to pack the DML Fokker D-VII I'm decalling to match Hippert(sp?) large B/W checkered fuselage. Hopefully five days in a motel room at night will allow me to get it completed so I can build it on return. St. Louis (Missouri) Jasta is still alive and well, next meeting is 12/12, usual attendance in the winter is 5-6 of us. One of my goals for next year will be to have some of our models photographed and put on Allan's web site there are some excellent models to share with the group. Charlie nr: Thunderbolt by Bodie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:27:06 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: >On Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:34:55 -0500 kevinkim@interlog.com (barrett) >writes: > >>Had a look. Do you think they're knock-off kits, since, I believe, the >>subjects have all been released previously? Regardless, I'm excited >>about the potential here. > >Well, I'll stride a bit off topic here, just to show something. > >I have one (and will soon have two) of the Toko Il-2 Shturmovik's. If >their WW1 models turn out as great as this kit is, then everybody has >nothing to fear - unless their dimensions are off. The Toko Il-2 is a >dream, and the wing root is the gem of the whole model. Unfortunately >the cockpit is a bit spartan, but you still get more than a Pegasus would >supply. > So, what is the country of origin of Toko Kits ? The 4 WW I subjects they have announced have all been done as Czech resins at one time or another, so my suspicion is that these are another incarnation of these resin kits. If anyone out there missed out on the Pegasus SSW D-III (also mastered from a Czech resin) this may be your opportunity to pick one up at a reasonable price. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:48:44 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: <346E26CC.19FB@conted.gatech.edu> > Had a look. Do you think they're knock-off kits, since, I believe, the > subjects have all been released previously? Regardless, I'm excited about > the potential here. Kevin, I believe there's been some speculation as to whether these are knock-offs of Czech resin kits. Does anyone know? Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:50:06 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: <19971115.135500.10830.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:30:03 -0500 Charles Hart writes: > So, what is the country of origin of Toko Kits ? The 4 WW I > subjects they have announced have all been done as Czech resins > at one time or another, so my suspicion is that these are > another incarnation of these resin kits. If anyone out there > missed out on the Pegasus SSW D-III (also mastered from a Czech > resin) this may be your opportunity to pick one up at a > reasonable price. Like the ICM kits (we won't go there, or we'll remain off topic quite a bit) they're made in the Ukraine. Keep an eye on this area. First Dakoplast, then ICM, now Toko. Egads! ;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:58:13 -0800 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Re: Toko kits Message-ID: <346DFED5.5E79@ricochet.net> Charles Hart wrote: > > So, what is the country of origin of Toko Kits ? The 4 WW I subjects > they have announced have all been done as Czech resins at one time or > another, so my suspicion is that these are another incarnation of these > resin kits. If anyone out there missed out on the Pegasus SSW D-III (also > mastered from a Czech resin) this may be your opportunity to pick one up at > a reasonable price. Charles, According to a reliable source, the Toko kits are Eastern European, of high quality ("better than Pegasus") and priced @ <$20. Cheers, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:01:53 -0800 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Library Bulletin Message-ID: <346DFFB1.3C79@ricochet.net> Due to inexpicable meltdown of machines at both primary and secondary copy facilities, library materials will be delayed. Yours, The Librarian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:17:17 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... Message-ID: <971115151717_1937551084@mrin79> I looked at the C II Datafile and specifically compared photo 68(page 24) with the various interior shots on pages 28-29. #68 shows the frame with the left shell attached and one can see wood grain and also the strips- no paint or colored dope here.The interior pics on pages 28-29 clearly show all one color-it looks as if the entire fuselage was assembled-then everthing got a coat of color including the framework. Other sources for the C II are WWI AERO #140- good interior and stuctural stuff- including a de-skinned "I" strut showing its inner framework pages106-111. #145 -article accompanied by dimensioned drawings pages40-45 ; pages 74-75 have additional interior and instrument details including the original cockpit drawing appearing in the Datafile. #157 pages82-87- a photo essay on the Linke-Hoffman version C.IIa(Li).These show the steps involved in construction- truly fine material here.The article states that the main difference is the water pipe routing.Also states that only the early aircraft had control wheels- later ones had sticks. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:29:23 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Library Bulletin Message-ID: <199711152120.WAA13766@d1o211.telia.com> Dear Librarian. While you're waiting for the inexpicable (I would have put it *de*spicable meltdown) to unoccur, maybe you could tell me if the library contains anything about vacforming. Tom Werner Hansen (still in possession of 2 vaccleaners, but God knows for how long) ---------- > From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Library Bulletin > Date: 15. november 1997 21:15 > > Due to inexpicable meltdown of machines at both primary and secondary > copy facilities, library materials will be delayed. > > Yours, > > The Librarian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:28:56 -0500 From: kevinkim@interlog.com (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Latest Norman Franks Release Spotted Message-ID: To the list: Much to my surprise, today I spotted another release in Norman Franks, et al, series of "ace-listing" books (e.g., Above the Trenches, Over the Lines, etc.). This one was called Over the War Fronts (maybe it was Above the War Fronts - these titles get a little monotonous). In a red jacket, the new book covers Italian and Belgian aces, along with Allied two-seater aces. As big as the other books, with the requisite listings and photo sections, the price made me balk - $72 Canadian. I'll wait for the clearance sale! Also hummed and ha'd over an Airkit 1/72 Farman. Anyone familiar with this beast? Is it worth a hefty price tag ($46 Canadian - *gak*). I had a look at the plane in the FMP French book - seems like a pretty cool, if challenging, subject. Kevin Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:39:13 +0100 From: Pedro Nuno Soares To: "'ww1 modeling list'" Subject: RE: What do whales look like on the inside? better ask Jonas.... Message-ID: <01BCF20E.F3EB9DA0@fei1-p4.telepac.pt> Hi Gang What a great bunch you are. I've just connected and saw that mY mail box was full of answers. Thanks to all of you. Now back to reading... See you Oh, your head roadie sure is happy.... Um abraco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:25:23 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest Norman Franks Release Spotted Message-ID: <346E5993.3D10@conted.gatech.edu> Kevin, I'm getting this title from Amazon.com for 30% off list price. Check out their site for other Franks titles. Carlos ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 764 *********************